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Thread: Water pump replacement

  1. #61
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Got the crank lock finished & installed:

    IMG_2445.JPG

    IMG_2446.JPG


    But then tried to loosen the front crank bolt with a 6ft breaker bar. No go. That bolt is TIGHT!! It felt like the breaker bar joint was going to explode before the bolt let go so I stopped for now. I pulled hard on that bar & nothing.


    Need to re-think of how I can safely loosen that bolt....... any ideas? I can’t get an air wrench in there – no room. I do worry this bolt could shear off
    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
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  3. #62
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Your lock tool is awesome! Why didn't the factory create something like that?

    So far, I've not had any problems using an air impact wrench on that bolt. However, clearance is tight with the engine in the car. You MAY need to remove the radiator to make room for an impact wrench. My impact is an off-brand 1/2" drive rated at something like 450 lb-ft? The hammering action seems to work well.

    In the meantime - soak the washer stack with penetrating oil / Kroil in case there's some corrosion issues.


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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Very nice tool.

    The only thing that worked for me was to use a floor jack under the breaker bar from below. I know there are dangers, but the bolt was so tight that the engine actually lifted the motor and pulled on the motor mounts before the bolt finally came loose. Just keep your face away from the breaker bar when you jack it up.
    Jon D.
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  7. #64
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    I used my 6 ft torque wrench.

  8. #65
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Thanks for the tips. I just tried a steel 10ft bar- still no go. This bolt is not coming out with a bar. My 1/2 Air wrench will never be able to remove this bolt.

    Either a 3/4 impact wrench or the starter motor method is the next step. I sure hope it doesn't shear off then I'd be in really big trouble.

    Edit- I'm eyeing up investing in a 18v impact wrench with 1625nm breakaway torque. That ought to get this b@£&?!d out.
    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  10. #66
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    I'd save money and go with the 3/4" breaker bar and floor jack.
    Jon D.
    1994 E420
    1995 E420

  11. #67
    Senior Member Allgonquin's Avatar
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Keep your 10 foot or however long bar and get an assistant. Now beg, borrow or steal an impact wrench. Have your assistant torque up on the breaker bar, then hit it with the impact while it is torqued up. It will come loose. Make sure the assistant is prepared for when it lets loose. The trouble is that you'll have to invent some kind of special socket which can accept both the breaker bar and the impact at the same time.... Crow foot on the breaker bar end and socket on the impact?
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  13. #68
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Victory at last!

    This morning I also tried the starter method – no go either. Just a click & it couldn’t loosen the bolt. And yes I did remove the lock tool first

    So I removed the radiator for access with my 450ib 1/2 Air impact gun. It tickled the bolt but that's about it. No go either

    Went to a local tool store and explained the problem. Their solution was a CP7749 ½ air wrench. It’s 1300nm (~960ib ft) maximum real torque in reverse and was actually smaller than my old 450ib ½ Air wrench. Needs must; so I bought it & finally the bolt came out! The harmonic puller hasn’t turned up yet but a 3 arm puller worked just fine. Waiting on MB parts & the giant torque wrench to arrive before I can proceed to re-assemble I'll report back on that in a week or so.

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    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  15. #69
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Awesome!
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  17. #70
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Yeah! Congrats on the successful removal.

    Note the ridge in the hub - make sure when you install the new seal, it's not in the same location. Based on your photo, it appears to be in the factory location, which IME seems to be inset ~1.5mm from the face of the timing cover. You cam try to measure the depth to confirm. If my estimate is correct... if you use the seal install tool, it will either get set flush, or inset 3mm, which is only ~1.5mm away from the previous location. Last seal I changed, I installed it ~1.5mm out from the face of the cover (use feeler gauges behind the tool during install), to get 3mm away from the old ridge. That may be overkill... 1.5mm difference may be adequate. I assume you'll use an OE MB seal, not aftermarket. This is a job you won't want to repeat anytime soon!


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  19. #71
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Props to you JC. As usual, I'm amazed by the skills of board members who are willing to tackle jobs like this. Hope reassembly goes smoothly.
    Allgonquin

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  21. #72
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Allgonquin View Post
    Props to you JC. As usual, I'm amazed by the skills of board members who are willing to tackle jobs like this. Hope reassembly goes smoothly.
    Thanks! I think the worst is over now that bolt is out – reassembly should be ok now.... famous last words


    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Yeah! Congrats on the successful removal.

    Note the ridge in the hub - make sure when you install the new seal, it's not in the same location. Based on your photo, it appears to be in the factory location, which IME seems to be inset ~1.5mm from the face of the timing cover. You cam try to measure the depth to confirm. If my estimate is correct... if you use the seal install tool, it will either get set flush, or inset 3mm, which is only ~1.5mm away from the previous location. Last seal I changed, I installed it ~1.5mm out from the face of the cover (use feeler gauges behind the tool during install), to get 3mm away from the old ridge. That may be overkill... 1.5mm difference may be adequate. I assume you'll use an OE MB seal, not aftermarket. This is a job you won't want to repeat anytime soon!

    Yes that sounds about right Dave – the original Crank Oil seal is set in slightly from the outer edge. So I will go for using the MB tool to set it flush with the casing this time. Although it looks like a ridge its not actually indented per say. I just need to give the hub a good clean with fine scotch pad & WD40.


    All genuine parts from MB are coming in a few days - including the MB Tool & Crank Oil seal etc. I hope the MB tool turns up & isnt NLA given the low price the dealer qouted. Funny thing is my dealer wouldnt sell me the tools! So I ordered from a different dealer than usual - not sure if they are 'On the ball' or not regarding NLA parts but they did take full payment so fingers crossed.

    Yes I don’t want to be tackling the crank seal again any time soon! Besides I am finding of late that Mercedes Parts prices are quite reasonable for most items – doesn’t make sense to explore the minefield of aftermarket parts out there now. I’ve seen posts lately on BanzW where even Lemforder are now sending out Made in China parts – very bad news indeed! I have decided to have the original bolts yellow zinc plated to match the rest of the motor in my car now. So that will take at least a week until I get them back. I do intend to create a DIY on 500E board regarding crank pulley / Oil seal renewal – when all is said & done with the R&R I’ll post that new thread detailing all tools needed and the best approach.



    There is a question I wanted to ask regarding the torque of the front Crank bolt - the early m119 setting is 400nm. But then later models have the Torque set at 300nm IIRC. Can I consider then setting the Torque wrench to 350nm as a happy medium? Or give it the full 400nm again? I do have a new MB crank bolt coming also to abate fears of it shearing off. (However it is an updated part number so if it turns up with a allen key instead of 27mm hex I will not be using the new bolt)
    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  23. #73
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    I’ve seen posts lately on BanzW where even Lemforder are now sending out Made in China parts – very bad news indeed!
    That's not good. Any W124 parts? Have a link?



    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    There is a question I wanted to ask regarding the torque of the front Crank bolt - the early m119 setting is 400nm. But then later models have the Torque set at 300nm IIRC. Can I consider then setting the Torque wrench to 350nm as a happy medium? Or give it the full 400nm again? I do have a new MB crank bolt coming also to abate fears of it shearing off. (However it is an updated part number so if it turns up with a allen key instead of 27mm hex I will not be using the new bolt)
    They are different designs. The old bolt is used with the stack of 4 Belleville (dished spring) washers. The new bolt is used with a single thick/flat washer, and after torquing to 200Nm, it then takes another 90° rotation. See link in post #31. The bolts are different ratings as well, I believe, as the early one is not torque-to-yield like the later one. Don't mix+match parts, and use the proper spec for the parts you have. Remember to follow the directions to oil the bolt/washers before torquing per FSM.


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  25. #74
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    That's not good. Any W124 parts? Have a link?




    They are different designs. The old bolt is used with the stack of 4 Belleville (dished spring) washers. The new bolt is used with a single thick/flat washer, and after torquing to 200Nm, it then takes another 90° rotation. See link in post #31. The bolts are different ratings as well, I believe, as the early one is not torque-to-yield like the later one. Don't mix+match parts, and use the proper spec for the parts you have. Remember to follow the directions to oil the bolt/washers before torquing per FSM.

    Thanks for the clarification – I didn’t know the later bolt does not have the 4 washers also. EPC gave me this part number for my 500E’s crank bolt- N308676018001 so it should be a match & suitable for my 119.974 motor. I will compare the new bolt with the original – if it is not a match I will not use the new bolt. I’ll torque to 400nm.


    First mention was here

    2016-11-25 18.14.38_zpskflssbsu.jpgIMAG0603.jpg







    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  27. #75
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

  28. #76
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    The new Teng 450nm Torque wrench turned up today..... it dwarfs most wrenches

    IMG_2465.JPG

    Joins the family.....

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    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  30. #77
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Nothing like a big tool...I'm told.

    drew
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  32. #78
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Well I’m still waiting on the parts from MB so I can start putting stuff back together on my 500E. However, tonight when cleaning the motor I think I found the source of the noise I was experiencing from the waterpump area Check out the pic-

    IMG_2480.JPG

    See how the waterpump impeller has been making contact with the timing cover? I think this is because I had the engine drained of coolant for a couple months almost. The cast iron impeller must have corroded during that time then when I re-commissioned the engine again the noise began to occur.

    The corrosion will be carefully cleaned off with fine scotch pads before fitting the new waterpump. It is good to have found the potential source of the annoying noise though!
    1987 w124 200 E36 AMG Project car - ongoing
    1990 w124 300E-24 Fully Restored
    1992 w124 500E Rolling Restoration - ongoing
    1995 w202 C36 AMG The donor for the w124 E36
    2007 w211 E220CDI Avantgarde Daily Driver

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  34. #79
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    so ..i tried to read all this stuff...BUT

    Does the balancer come off "just" by removing the 6 hex bolts..from the workshop manual i get abit confused?

    or is it fastened by the center bolt holding the HUB also...?
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    so ..i tried to read all this stuff...BUT

    Does the balancer come off "just" by removing the 6 hex bolts..from the workshop manual i get abit confused?

    or is it fastened by the center bolt holding the HUB also...?
    The balancer comes off after the 6 hex bolts are removed. It can be VERY tight and difficult to remove, or rusted in place.

    The large 27mm center bolt only fastens the hub.
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  38. #81
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Once the 6 bolts off. soak it. Get a big pry bar and turn the engine clockwise and pry the balancer off as you are rotating the engine. Make sure you turn it CLOCKWISE. Ask me how I know. lol. FYI balancer can only go on one way.

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  40. #82
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by rockingchairmotors View Post
    Make sure you turn it CLOCKWISE. Ask me how I know. lol. FYI balancer can only go on one way.
    oh ..so its only turned clockwise you say? what happens if you turn it anti clockwise..maybe you can tell us about it "giggles"

    just kidding..im well aware of that mister..im pretty old in the car world and mbworld beeing a technician, but thank you for letting me know anyways i apreaciate tips whatever they may be
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  42. #83
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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Got it Lowman. Just don't want you to make a "newbie" mistake like I did. Didn't realize you were a "veteran".

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    Re: Water pump replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by rockingchairmotors View Post
    Got it Lowman. Just don't want you to make a "newbie" mistake like I did. Didn't realize you were a "veteran".
    did not mean anything bad with my comment.i was just thinkin out loud
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