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Thread: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

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    M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Sorry about the long post, I am not quite sure what is relevant regarding this matter, so I tell everything which happened before the knocking noise from the engine.

    So, I have a 1985 euro-spec 1.series 500 SEC with a M117.963 engine. The car has been sitting over the winter after oil change and some other basic maintenance last autumn. Since then I only drove the car about 15 miles to its garage. I have then started the car few times in the winter and let it warm, not really driven it other than out and in of its garage this spring.

    During the last couple of days I have been doing some more maintenance, such as changed all the belts and new fuel injectors and their holders. I also took off cam covers and replaced the plastic cam oiler tube holders. Couple of the holders broke off but I was able to collect the few broken pieces out with forceps from their attaching holes. I checked cams, rockers and chain tensioners visually, and everything looked good. Actually I was surprised how shiny and smooth all the cam glide surfaces were. There were only little signs of wear despite the 161 k mileage. I put everything back together and checked all the fuel and vacuum connections. (Eventually I found out that two fuel lines didn't seal tightly so I needed to re-seat them to injectors.)

    I started the engine, and after somewhat long cranking (which was anticipated as I had replaced the injectors and taken off some fuel lines) the engine setteled to a 2500 rpm idle. I turned off and started the engine altogether about four times while trying to figure out what was wrong. Eventually I found that, for some reason, the throttle linkage was adjusted so that the throttle butterfly flap would be partly open even on idle. Apparently this worked fine with the old injectors and seals, although I did previously wonder the initial startup behaviour which was somewhat different than in my 300 E-24. Hard to explain and probaply not relevant, but anyway, after adjusting the rod the car started fine and setteled immediately to a 1000 rpm cold start idle.

    When the engine was idling 2500 rpm the last time before the linkage adjustment, just before turning off the engine, I noticed some sound from the engine. I thought it was the viscous coupling as it sounded a bit like the coupling switching on/off so I didn't pay attention. So, next time I started the engine the idle was ok, but now I was hearing a quite loud knocking noise. The engine has had a very slight knocking sound before, which had been thought to be a hydraulic lifter (aka hydraulic valve clearance compensating element), but this noise was definately louder. Giving some revs didn't help to stop the noise. From what I was able to hear, the noise was coming around the no. 5 cylinder (drivers side bank, the nearest to the chain) It was so disturbing that I didn't want to idle the engine anymore. I took off the camshaft covers again, hoping to find some obvious reason. Of course, there was nothing obvious, everything looked ok, even the chain tensioners.

    I then called a friend how knows more and searched how to test the hydraulic lifters. I tested the lifters according to factory procedure, which is to press down the hydraulic lifter with, for example with a handle of a hammer, when it is not under tension (particular cam tip in upward position) I hadn't done this work previously, but I guess I did it right. I did not notice any downward motion on any of the lifters although I pressed as much as I could, so I thought they were ok? When rotating the engine by the crankshaft bolt, I did wonder the hissing sound which was coming from the no. 5 cylinder right after rotating even a small turn. I sounded like a pressure which was relieved after a few seconds. You can hear it quite well from the video.

    After all this, I installed the camshaft covers once more and checked everything was ok. I cranked the engine which started and idled fine, although the knocking sound was still there. I decided to let it idle and see if the sound would go away (still thought it was jammed lifter or something). The engine had been idling about 4 minutes, whichafter, in about 4 seconds time I noticed the knocking sound to transform somehow. This made me to rush to the key and immediately turn off the engine. I did not want to wait and hear what happens next.

    Now, the situation is that I have a car which I am too afraid to crank again. As I had done some work on the engine just before this knocking noise, It makes me wonder if I somehow screwed up something, but I really haven't figured out anything what I could have done to cause such a noise.

    I have thought of possible causes:

    1. I have dropped a tool in the cam chain housing when the covers were off
    2. Cam chain tensioner broke off
    3. Connecting rod bearing broke for some reason in less than 10 minutes time
    4. I have dropped something inside the inlet manifold via injector holes (don't know if it would even cause anything major. None of my tools, bolts or nuts were missing)

    I would greatly appreciate all the suggestions and ideas! What would you do in my situation?

    Basically I'll have to get the car on a flatbed to the local garage which has most probaply zero experience on M117's. I would need to give them some suggestions about what to do with it. What I have thought of is to change all the chain tensioners, check the lifters and cams once more and take off the oil pan to take a look on the crankshaft and such. Anything else?

    I am somewhat shocked on the course of events since I have been servicing the car for days, and now I have it in my garage even afraid to crank it. Thank you for reading despite my somewhat poor english.



    1985 500 SEC
    1992 300 E-24
    1990 200 quattro 20V
    instagram@hptalli

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    the hissing sounds like leakage getting by one of the valves..be it intake or exhaust. I'd need to be there to listen first hand.

    Now why you're getting all this leakage by the valve And the knocking.. You're Sure only cylinder 5 makes that noise under pressure/compression stroke?

    if you just showed me the knock I'd say you may have wiped a rocker arm. I'm looking harder @ the one lobe I can see fairly well in the hissing video...I don't love how that lobe looks. I'd Really like to pull that rocker for a looksie. Also, if you pull the rockers for the cylinder you can eliminate it from the mix when running And know if it's a head/valve issue for sure.
    https://monoglobal.com.au/wp-content...6/03/A1267.jpg is the tool you need.

    Hope that helps a Little...but I'd look Real hard at that rocker and lobe to start.

    if it's Not that I'd be worried about a piston having galled in the bore...You might take a compression test on that bank for fun.

    jono
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    M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    My parts car had similar wear and failure. Rocker didn't get oil and there was a hole in it. The tip of the lobe was also flattened. I will post a pic in a moment.... I have the damaged cam
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I looked carefully at the rockers and cam lobes, but I wasn't able to find any signs of abnormal wear.

    I was told that the hissing sound could be generated by the piston rings, which makes sense, since the valves were opening and closing on intake and exhaust cycles (=no pressure in the cylinder) but the sound as audible all the time.

    Tomorrow I will be endoscoping the cylinders, so hopefully I will see if there are any foreign objects.
    1985 500 SEC
    1992 300 E-24
    1990 200 quattro 20V
    instagram@hptalli

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Btw I have never seen conclusive results on the "hammer handle" test. Seems like a waste of time to try and find rogue lifters this way.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    For sure that's lifter noise. Could be the cam (lobe flattened) or lifter (compressed and won't pump up) or something like it.

    the hissing noise is pretty normal. If you listen carefully, most engines grunt groan and squeak when your turning em over by hand. Your hearing compression get past the rings. Normal
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    On the picture that I showed you, that wear was the result of the ball stud that was improperly torqued. I turned it with my thumb and forefinger, so it made sense to have wear. I was certain to check all my ball studs on my driver, and some were less than spec.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    that's the Worst 117 cam lobe I've ever seen! Well done sir...!!
    Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman
    Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Too bad too, the cams, rockers and ball studs were less than 20 k on them. Original owner was mechanic for mb of Beverly Hills.
    1994 E500
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    1991 560 SEC
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    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Just wondering is there a possibility that during the oiler tube clip change a small piece of plastic could have ended up in one of the lifters?

    I have been looking at the oil supply schematics but it looks like the oil flows from the camshaft bearings to the oil tube, so it feels unlikely that a piece would end up against the oil flow. The oil pipe holes are so small that any piece that goes though them is too small to cauce severe damage.

    The engine has been making slight ticking noise before so could it be possible that it is a lifter that has now jammed? Perhaps the 2500 cold start rpms initiated the failure of already poorly fucntioning lifter?
    1985 500 SEC
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Don't knock yourself out looking for "the cause" and this very likely did not "happen all at once". It's likely been developing over time, and has now finally bloomed into a full-blown "Damn! What the hell is that noise?" situation.
    Billions and billions of 116 and 117 camshafts developed this incredible wear for no apparent reason. Back when these engines were in current production and daily service, many dealers actually stocked camshafts and rockers...

    It was usually the right bank more than the left bank, but I've seen it on both, often on the same engine, usually the right bank first, then some time in the future the left bank. It's usually the rocker arm that develops a wear pit first, and from that point on it rapidly takes out the cam. The metallurgy of both the rockers and the cams was modified to prevent this, so brand-new cams together with brand-new rockers are unlikely to do this. As others have said, make sure the lifters are well torqued into the cylinder heads, which to me means a little bit tighter than the torque spec. In my experience the specified torque was barely adequate. These lifters will loosen at the drop of a hat and they will bring the hat. Also use an appropriately high zinc/phosphorus motor oil. Use all new plastic clips when you do the repair work, even though you have just replaced them. Blow through all of the holes, and blow the tubes out lengthwise with compressed air, each in turn several times, and that will be fine. Then, make sure there is no debris in your camshaft bearing towers.
    Last edited by Klink; 05-12-2017 at 01:06 AM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Quote Originally Posted by daantjie View Post
    Btw I have never seen conclusive results on the "hammer handle" test. Seems like a waste of time to try and find rogue lifters this way.
    Oh yes, the "hammer test". Hitting yourself in the eyeballs with the hammer will actually yield more useful information than that "test" ever did. Usually, a "positive" result with the hammer test revealed only the hideously galled camshaft and rocker which you can see just by looking, along with it's frequent companion, that being the lifter loose in the head. And no, I don't think the loose lifters caused the condition, though they are often found together. My observations and playing with these things convinced me back in the day that the wear actually developed first, then the millions of shocks helped loosen the lifter, which as I said above, was already barely torqued into the head...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Today did endoscopy to cylinder no. 5. After removing spark plug it came quite obvious what is the case, as it had couple of small dents visible. When looking into the cylinder I was able to spot two small objects sitting on top of the piston. They looked smashed and were unidentifiable. In the cylinder wall, there was a long mark going all the way down. Valves small dents in them, although sealing surfaces looked unharmed.

    I did cylinder leak down test which indicated only 4% leakage. I did this also to another cylinder which was leaking 3%. I don't know how reliable these values are, I guess they are almost too good.

    So, I think the next step is to take off the cylinder head. The thing that worries me most is the mark along cylinder wall, as it might mean that the engine block has to be taken off for repairing. Cylinder heads are no problem.

    Any suggestions what would be wise to renew as the head(s) are coming off anyway?
    1985 500 SEC
    1992 300 E-24
    1990 200 quattro 20V
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Well this isnt promising, wait for Jono to chime in or Klink. If you are removing the head, helicoil, use new bolts, MB factory gasket set. Redo the valve train, valve stem seals rockers, studs oilers and shims.

    Since the intake has to come off, this is an excellent opportunity to refresh the donuts, all the vacuum connectors, hoses, rubber pipes, vac lines, fuel injector seats, seals and injectors. Replace the chain and guides if more than 100k since it was done last, and the tensioner. If you can stand it, do the front crank seal since you are there. If you have SLS, no better time to refresh the pressure hose off the pump, and if the pump is leaking refresh the seals cheaply in the SLS pump.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    You mentioned fuel injectors. Did you handle or manipulate the fuel injector on that cylinder? If you did, you may have knocked the bottom off of the possibly brittle plastic injector insulator/ idle air blender which would then fall down into the cylinder. If that's what happened, it makes a hell of a lot of racket, but usually doesn't do any damage, and you can get some rough running/diminished output on that cylinder due to the now less effective blending of fuel and air. Even if you didn't do that, and it isn't the bottom of the injector tube, it is hyper common for large chunks of carbon to become humidified, swell up, and detach from the valves when an engine has been sitting for a while. You can get misfiring and/or horrifying rattling and knocking until the carbon gets pounded out.

    Your leak test is good, so don't freak out yet. And be VERY careful and skeptical in your judgments before you start a major disassembly. The tiniest nothings look like horrible monsters through a borescope. A tiny streak of oil can look just like a cracked cylinder wall, for example. Even merely semi-accurate evaluation of cylinder internals via a borescope is almost exclusively enabled by experience, and most of that experience, unfortunately, will be bad. Oh, also look at your spark plug. Debris will sometimes mark or deform the end of the spark plug. Anything nasty looking there? If not, that's a little encouraging, too.
    Last edited by Klink; 05-12-2017 at 10:53 PM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Here are some pictures and video I took with the endoscope.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaI...2DxTyH7KcsCD_w

    Yes, I did replace the injectors, seals as well the injector tubes. There was some dirt over the intake manifold which I brushed off and vacuumed before dismantling the injector assembly, being careful not to drop dirt inside the manifold. What I did NOT do, was to cover the injector holes in the manifold after I took off the assembly. So I guess at some point I have dropped something over the intake manifold without noticing, and it has found its way straight to injector hole #5.

    The fact is that there are dents on top of the piston and on the valves and also some on the spark plug, so this foreign object must be some metallic material. I don't know what are the chances of beign able to take them off without taking apart the cylinder head. I tried to get the pieces moving by blowing in compressed air, with no results. I thought it might be possible to get in touch to them with a magnet. Having done the endoscopy, I am a bit sceptical about getting them off as it is quite difficult to work inside the cylinder via small hole.

    What would you do in my situation?
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    Last edited by Heksi; 05-12-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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    1992 300 E-24
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    instagram@hptalli

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    That's where Jimmy Hoffa Is!


    Wow I would certainly get a telescopic magnet or two and keep fishing around until you get the metal out. Scope again, using the streak as your guide. consider a shop vac, stick some length of pool noodle or any foam will do so you can stick perhaps a piece of 3/8" hose in the foam going into the wider shop vac hose so the vacuum is coming out of a longer 3/8' hose. (whatever diameter will fit down the spark plug hole) There should be enough length in that hose to suck out anything on the top of the piston. Scope for more, repeat as necessary. Be sure the shop vac is empty when you try this, I am sure you want to identify the parts of metal you suck out.
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    1991 560 SEC
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    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Any updates on this situation?

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Any updates on this situation?
    Yes!

    The car has now its cylinder heads removed. This was done by a local garage, which after the car and all the disassembled parts were delivered back to me. At the moment the cylinder heads are being completely refurbished by a professional and also the exhaust manifolds are being coated just for aestethics. I have been reading gerryvz's top-end rebuild topic with great intrest, as this will be basically the same kind of job as with his 560. I will be doing only the cleaning stuff and organising the process. I have provided the local garage and the cylinder head refurbisher all the relevant factory repair instructions, but besides that all I can do is that garage to their best and keep my fingers crossed that everything goes well!

    Once the heads were removed it was obvious that the foreign particle in the cylinder was a washer. It was broken to two big pieces and to some other smaller ones, that have probaply been exhausted away. Luckily, cylinder head had only small dents, and they are anticipated to be just sanded down and not to cause any major work. Anyway, the valves on that cylinder will be carefully inspected in case of being bent. Also all the servicing needed will be made to both heads. The thing that concerned me most was the scratch on the cylinder wall, but it was a great relief to notice that it was definetly smaller than it looked in the endoscope. You couldn't feel anything even when trying with fingernail, so I (and the guys at the garage) think that's nothing to worry about. However, the biggest marks were on top of the piston, right at the edge of the piston. This is surprising as I think the piston is made out of iron, instead of alloy as the cylinder head? Anyway, the piston will need to be taken out to be inspected for damage. I already sent enquieries to local Mercedes dealer and some other MB parts supplier and asked about the availability of stock-size piston and piston rings, so I think I'll know that in a couple of days.

    When reading through the factory repair manual I noticed that the pistons and cylinders are divided to couple of tolerance groups already when manufactured. My cylinder block and piston had markings "1" "91" and "96,50". According to manual this is translated to piston group number 1 and piston code number 91. Piston diameter is 96,50.

    When inspecting the camshaft and rocker arms I noticed minor wear on some of the other side head's rocker arms. It looked like the hardening had started to flake off(?) so that the rocker arms and camshaft would have been starting to wear at an accelerating pace in the few 10k km's. Anyhow, this means that at least the other camshaft as well as the rocker arms will need to be replaced.

    I also took a good look on the chain rails and noticed that one of the rails had fractured next by the attaching pin. This fracture may have become on disassembled, or it may have already existed for a long time. I think this is a proof that the plastic rails are quite fragile in over 30 years age. The rails had manufacturing dates 1985, so they were original.

    The one thing that surprised me were EGR passages on the cylinder heads, which were quite badly blocked. The one passage that goes straight down to the crankshaft assembly was completely clogged. I didn't even know that the exhaust circulates around the cylinder heads and down to the engine block! This hole which goes down to the block is on the co-drivers side, on the edge of the first cylinder on the driving direction. Any ideas where this passage goes?? The EGR pipes and vacuum pod on the exhaust manifold is on the other side of the engine.

    While the parts are taken apart, I took time and effort to clean the inlet manifold, fuel distributor, alternator, thermostat housing as well as other bits and pieces. I inspected the rubber and plastic parts for hardening, but surprisingly they were basically all in good condition, the rubbers were flexible and nothing was cracked. Anyway, I will be replacing couple of air pipes which felt somewhat hardened. I did not take the intake manifold apart to replace the rubber "donuts". After brushing with a lot of bräkleen, I wiped all the parts with WD40 and lubricated throttle linkage and pivot points, as well as throttle butterfly valve hinges with ATF. Even though it is a real pain to clean the whole intake assembly (I think it took about 2-3 hours), it is also rewarding to wipe away +30 years grime. Also, I found three old washers lying on top of the intake manifold, and one on top of the engine block. I think they have been sitting there for years, and the fourth one was probaply the one that ended up to the cylinder #5 when I was replacing the injectors.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    good news! When you replace the timing chain rails both upper and lower, do a new MB tensioner and chain. Also, as you are there, there is no better time to replace the front main seal. Also, the water pump is incremental work as well. I hate spending other peoples money, but I know the work to get to do both the seal and the waterpump, so if the timing case is off at a minimum - do the seal. Keep posting here with progress and pictures!
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    1991 560 SEC
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    nocfn, so you mean the crankshaft front seal? Are they prone to failure? I am considering on having the lower guides and chain to be replaced, but not sure about the seal and water pump... I am just wondering how much of a work all this is, since I need to get it done by mechanic. Is the water pump expensive?

    Yesterday I checked through carefully all the cam lobes and rocker arms. Looks like rocker arms on cylider 6, 7 and 8 were slightly worn. Also on couple cam lobes with the most worn rocker arms had a bit of roughness. I took the camshafts, cam towers and rocker arms to a reputable machine shop and they said that cams would be just fine after polishing. With polished cam it is possible to install new rocker arms. They will also check and polish the cam bearings. This was a relief, and will most likely save me hundreds of euros.

    Luckily, one fellow Mercedes-enthusiast has five used pistons out of a -85 500, so if everything goes as planned, I should be able to get one of his pistons and swap it to my engine. Removing piston no. 5 should be easier than with others, since it is the most front one, requiring only the steel oil pan (and probaply oil pump/screen?) to be removed to gain access to connecting rod bolts.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Well for the crank seal, it is just taking advantage of the access. Time and heat will eventually cause the thing to leak, its German! Cost is not expensive, less than 10 USD for the seal. If the water pump is not showing signs of weeping and temp is ok, then it isn't critical. Its just one of those things that could go from 130-185k miles and while the balancer must come off to replace the water pump, the nut and washers must come off to do the crank seal. So it is just about access. Flushing the system of old coolant, perhaps a citric flush (follow directions specifically to the MB specs) by the block drains. You will see a trail of the weep holes on the water pump, running down the case to the crank if the water pump is weeping. It just depends how much you have to do, what you can afford to wait on. This is just "while you are there stuff". Cleaning decades of grime will not ever be easier, be sure to do that!
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I agree with Louis, if you're taking apart the front of the engine, to remove the lower timing cover do the lower timing chain guides, then it completely makes sense to do the front crank seal, water pump, etc. It's preventative maintenance, but it's quite expensive to do it again when it comes to tearing down the front of the engine.

    The main thing is to ALWAYS use a factory MB timing chain tensioner -- NEVER aftermarket for this part. The chain rails are cheap, as is the seal. Water pump is available as a rebuild - you just want to get a quality unit for that.

    Sounds like you have a good mechanic who knows what he is doing with the cam lobes and rockers. The rockers are relatively a wear item. It's unfortunate for those with pre-1989 cars, because of that year MB made some running changes in the metal that hardened the cam lobes a bit to reduce wear, and this helped a lot. These engines EAT cams and rocker arms, particularly on the passenger side of the engine.

    Going forward, the two most important things you can do are to use engine oil that has a high zinc (ZDDP) content, which helps alleviate friction and wear at the lobe/rocker arm striking surface, and to make sure that your valve clearances are adjusted with the proper size shims where the other end of the rocker arms sit on top of the valve stem/spring assembly. MB makes about 4-5 different depths of shim, and this distance has to be measured and the correct size of shim used to ensure proper operation. There is a special "go-no go" tool for measuring this distance.

    Of course, at reassembly make sure that the mechanic cleans out the two cam oiler tubes, and uses new plastic parts (exceedingly cheap from MB) where the tubes attach to the top of each cam tower. Getting oil down into each cam tower via these tubes is critical for proper operation and bearing lubrication.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Thanks for all the advice!

    At the moment the engine front cover is still in place. Would you take it apart at this point? Of course, once it's off, I guess then it is wise to all the works you mentioned.

    About the tensioner – so you recommend to replace it?

    One could go on and on replacing parts that are basically in good working order, and I understand the point on that, but I'm just trying to "go midway" so that everything that is wise to do will be done, but no to overreact. I hope you understand what I am trying to say I have already learnt a lot about M117's along the process!

    About the rockers. I asked the price from Mercedes and local MB parts dealer, they are about 91 $ a piece from both of them. Looking at the german SLS webshop they are less than half of that price, at 40 $ each! Am I looking for troubles at that price, or where does the difference come from?
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    and uses new plastic parts (exceedingly cheap from MB) where the tubes attach to the top of each cam tower. Getting oil down into each cam tower via these tubes is critical for proper operation and bearing lubrication.
    Very good advice. My brother has a 500SEL that was running perfect until one of those plastic clips failed and it ate a camshaft bearing on the RH bank very fast. He pulled over as soon as he heard the first noises but it was too late. The whole motor was replaced.

    Make sure & replace all of those can oiler plastic clips
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I actually replaced the oiler tube clips already, but they will be replaced once more when reassembling the engine. I didn't drive a single kilometer with the clips I changed, heh.

    Any thoughts why there is such a difference with rocker arm prices? What do they cost in the US?
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heksi View Post
    Any thoughts why there is such a difference with rocker arm prices? What do they cost in the US?
    These parts can be had here in the US of merely ADEQUATE quality (Febi) for $21.11 apiece, at this link.

    Gen-yoo-whine MB parts are $66 each, as shown here.

    Or $67 each, as shown here.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Things are starting to come together slowly. The heads are still being worked. Valve guides were worn, so they will be all replaced together with valve seals. I got the coated manifolds today and they look great. Unfortunately they also coated the heat shields and EGR-valve as they were attached to manifold when I sent them to them. So I think I will get the heat shields and probaply the "non-cast iron" part of the EGR sandblasted to regain the original look.

    I spoke with the guys at the garage, and the front cover will be taken off to replace the lower chain guides and crankshaft seal. Also water pump and thermostat will be replaced. They will also take the piston out and it will be replaced with a used one. Lower oil pan will be replaced as the original has got a dent at some point of its life. We agreed that I will be making the spare parts order, so during the last days I have been browsing through EPC and gathering a list of parts to order to Germany. I will be purchasing most of the spare parts from Germany as they are cheaper there than here in Finland. I have been trying to choose quality parts that are reasonably priced, not sure how I managed. The cheapest parts will not find their way to this car, that is for sure. I think price is a quite good indicator of quality when you are buying from a large parts supplier, but I have been googling around for reputation of some manufacturers.

    I will also get soon the new piston from a fellow Finnish Mercedes-enthusiast. Luckily his piston is with exactly the same dimensions as mine, being tolerance group "1" and diameter of 96,50 mm. So no problems are anticipated there. On the co-drivers side cylinder bank I have group "0+" and 96,495 mm.

    There are still a couple of so called problems. I will be buying the original MB chain tensioner as it is such a critical item. The local dealer offers it at 561$, with Mercedes club discount 477$. I searched the tensioner from the US on mboemparts.com and oediscountparts.com but both of them will I not ship outside US. Autohaus AZ will, but as their part is a bit more expensive, with shipping and possible tolls the costs will be almost as high as the discounted price from local Mercedes dealer.

    And finally some pictures. I will update pictures to this gallery along the way. At the moment there are pictures of the dismantled engine and cleaned parts, dented piston and head the exhaust manifolds. Go and have a look!
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Almost forgot. As you may notice, there is a screwdriver handle sticking out in one of the eying block holes. That hole, or passage, which continues all the way to cylinder head, was blocked with black soot. I digged and vacuumed out most of the soot and now it goes about 4 inches down the block. I have no idea where it goes. Judging by the bulge on the block's outside surface and looking down the chain housing, it might even stop there, but I am not certain.

    Do you know where this passage goes and why? I know what the EGR does, and it's on the opposite side of the engine, and to my knowledge, it does to not circulate in cylinder block or cylinder head. Is this done to heat up the engine more rapidly? I haven't had the opportunity to examine the heads in detail and look where the passage goes, but I will do that later on.

    Also, why is there a water passages on the inside upper edge of co-drivers cylinder wall? It that for the heater to get warmed up water more rapidly? The driver's side looks different.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heksi View Post
    I think price is a quite good indicator of quality when you are buying from a large parts supplier, but I have been googling around for reputation of some manufacturers.
    Please check this thread, which is an excellent and regularly updated indicator of parts vendors and the quality of their wares....

    http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919

    Quote Originally Posted by Heksi View Post
    I will be buying the original MB chain tensioner as it is such a critical item. The local dealer offers it at 561$, with Mercedes club discount 477$. I searched the tensioner from the US on mboemparts.com and oediscountparts.com but both of them will I not ship outside US. Autohaus AZ will, but as their part is a bit more expensive, with shipping and possible tolls the costs will be almost as high as the discounted price from local Mercedes dealer.
    It should be ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM to have someone here in the USA to order you this part for a much more reasonable price, and ship it to you in Finland. That should save you some significant money. You would likely need to send the money to them first via PayPal, but I'm sure that someone would help you out with this. Certainly I would raise my hand to do this !!!

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    The chain tensioner for a 1985 model year 500SEC is part number 116 050 18 11, and can easily be gotten for $340 as an MB OE part. Looks to be the same part for the 560SEC as well.

    That means it could be shipped to you likely for under $375, which is more than $100 less than you can get for - a significant savings if you can wait the 2-3 weeks to get it.

    AutohauZ has the genuine MB part for $409, and Importec has it for $419.

    Are you interested in getting it Stateside and getting it shipped to you?

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I will get back to you tomorrow, Gerry, when I'll come out from work!
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Camshafts and bearing towers have been now polished and they look basically brand new. Heads should be ready later this week, and once I get the last two parts deliveries, everything should be ready for reassebly.

    The soot-blocked passeges are for auxiliary air pump device. My car does not have air pump, but the bore leading to exhaust duct just right after exhaust valve, is open, so apparently the exhaust gases find their way to air channels and soot them up. According to factory manual, for cars without air pump device, the bores leading to exhaust duct should be blocked by aluminium tapered plugs. This is why it is surprising to see that these bores were left open by the factory. Just a few days ago I saw another 500 head which also had these bores open, and I have heard they have been found open on some other 500's as well.

    I considered blocking them, but I think I will let them be as they are, since that was the way it left the factory. I would also mean some extra work (=money) to fabricate and install these plugs.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Added some pictures of the refurbished heads. I need to clean up the sealing surfaces for the intake- and exhaust manifolds. You can see the damage that is still visible on the head of the cylinder #5. It would have been possible to plane down the head even more (there was still tolerance available) but those dents are so small it doesn't matter. Also, if the heads are refurbished again at some point of the car's life, there is still material to plane down.

    On the co-driver's side head there are three small corroded spots on the place where the water channels go. The guy at the machine shop suspected that there might be high flow to those points on the head.

    I am still waiting for two parts deliveries, then everything is ready for reassembly!
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Due to unfortunate setback the car is still at the garage waiting to be completed. The engine was already finished week ago. However, when the car was started it idled only some five seconds and stopped with some noises. After taking the valve covers off, it came obvious that the second last camshaft bearing tower on driver's side was split apart because the bearing towers were assembled in wrong order. They told me that the last tower which delivers the oil to other bearings and cam lobes via oil pipe, was mixed up with some other cam tower, so there was no oil in the whole cam when the engine was started.

    New camshaft and bearing towers (and oil pipe connectors) have already been ordered at their expense and will be installed in 1,5 weeks when the parts arrive. Rockers were intact and everything on the co-drivers side was fine with signs of oil delivered on the cam.

    Now, I have been wondering about the damage and why it happened. One Mercedes-"guru" said that only lack of oil wont do that kind of damage. Only the bearing surfaces would start to heat and finally melt or seize up, but not in five seconds, especially as there is assembly oil used on the bearings (at least that's my assumption!)

    Do you have any ideas? Are the cam towers sized differently, so that the cam would have already been under tension before the engine was started? That's the only scenario I think would cause bearing tower to split apart.

    I will visit the garage on monday, see the car and discuss with them.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I looked on the pictures I took on the refurbished heads earlier. Looks like there is one dowel sleeve missing on the driver's side head in the place of the last bearing tower. Is this relevant? Should there be a dowel sleeve? Could the tower been misaligned due to this? What is the purpose of the dowel sleeves, just to align the cam towers?

    I guess it could have been dropped on disassembly or during the head works.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I tried digging up my pics but isn't that an inlet? It is very early for me but that is a common head gasket leak location on the M117. Before I find it someone will confirm it for you. Sorry you are waiting another week or so.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    jamming those cam towers on incorrectly takes a bit of Doing..and really I can't see How they would do it.

    The dowel is Very important!!! If that's missing that could absolutely cause the cam to seize in the bearing. I'd look VERY carefully @ the cam, make sure that seizure didn't tweak anything.

    I had a customer come in with a freshly built engine PUKING coolant @ the head gaskets. Turns out the fellow who assembled it was a Porsche guy...they don't use dowels to line up heads so he left them off. Whoops..! Took us a minute to figure out WTH was going on..

    ..but yes, if they have a dowel chances are it's pretty darn important.

    jono
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    The dowel is Very important!!! If that's missing that could absolutely cause the cam to seize in the bearing.
    Okay, interesting, thanks! I will order missing dowel right away from MB on monday. I already checked they are available. Are they just hammered on, or installed cold to a heated head? (Don't know the correct word for that procedure..)

    Anyway, I am very curious to know what happened, the cam or bearings must have somehow been badly out of correct position for this to happen. Perhaps the missing dowel is the explanation.

    The cam will be new from Kolbenschmidt and good used bearing towers from a fellow enthusiast.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    they just press/tap right in...no chilling is required.

    If you are getting a fresh cam I'd get new bearings to go with..proper clearance is Important....

    jono
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I am happy to announce that I have been now driving around my 500 SEC for a week after its completion, and (almost) everything is fine regarding the rebuild. The one thing is a engine oil leak somewhere around front left of the engine. I haven't been able to track down leak, but on next monday it will be inspected by the garage as they have warranty for their work. It could be something minor, or in worst case, the chain cover has come off, which is a major work.

    As a result of the last setback I wrote earlier, the left camshaft and cam towers of both sides were renewed on garage's cost. The right cam was good enough.

    Anyway, the engine runs smooth and feels even more powerful than before. There is still a occasional misfire on idle, which bumps the engine slightly. I guess it could be plug wires as ignition cap, rotor and fuel injectors have already been replaced.

    The owner of the garage is a guy I know back from the high school years, and he has been helpful, even though I haven't been 100% confident with the mechanic working with the car. I did provide them the Mercedes repair manual on the engine, as well as the valve spring compressor and the hydraulic lifter measuring tool, but there has been two setbacks (one with the cam towers and now the oil leak), so I guess having the knowledge about task on hand is essential. They do major engine works, but I think this is their first Mercedes V8 they worked on.

    If there was to come a similar job on my 300E-24, I would probably now do it myself. I feel I have also learnt a lot of these engines on the progress, so I feel more confident to tackle more major works. The guys at the garage have the profession and the resources to do the job, but they don't have the time and intrest to do the research, read and learn all about these engines, as I do.

    Here's the list on renewed items

    - cylinder heads refurbishment:
    *valve seats machined
    *intake and exthaust valve guides replaced
    *valve seals
    *cylinder head planning
    - piston #5 (used)
    - oil pan
    - timing chain
    - all the chain guides, 5 pieces
    - timing chain tensioner and tensioner guide
    - water pump
    - crankshaft seal
    - thermostat
    - rockers, 16 pieces
    - camshaft, left
    - cam towers (I was able to find a set of good used ones)
    - cam oil pipe clips
    - engine mounts
    - exhaust manifolds refurbished
    - ehaust manifold bolts
    - and naturally couple cylinder heads gasket sets, some O-rings and seals, engine oil, all coolant (MB yellow) and some bits and pieces
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Very nice photography. You've got a good eye!


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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    seems i have a similiar sound. probably been going on for a month or 2. Had an oil change early june and tech didnt recall any sound. Im taking it in tuesday, very nervous about what may happen to the car and my wallet...32 yrs in this family and hopefully for longer

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dci5348VRIM

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Stop driving.

    I suspect your cam is beat already...but the more you drive the more damage done.

    Order up a set of rockers.

    Could be a good time for an upgrade...

    What oil do you run.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    my techs have used 20/50 for the most part. i thinkit may have had one or two changes with 10/40. one time 10 yrs ago with mobil 1.

    this maybe a stupid question...but with rockers, Gen merc vs Febi.....obviously big price difference but is it worth the difference.

    in terms of upgrade? what are u referring to...engine transplant...toss in a m119

    as some of the BW people saw i did pick up a "cheap" 500 sec a month ago....seems it may become a parts car.....not that its engine sounds spectacular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76p9REOJ8s
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Weight is the least of my concerns these days. Additive package is of Critical importance. Who is the manufacturer of said oil?

    Febis should be OK. The 3 manufacturers of rockers in the world...so I'd wager febi is grabbing the left overs that Benz doesn't take.

    If yer cam is wiped find some ece's they are still available new iirc.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    its been valvoline and pennzoil...i couldnt tell you other specific details of the oil as sadly i dont do my own change.

    how quickly could this issue have started....i drive 2000 miles a yr on this car...with a yearly oil change....unfortunately i havent always been paying attn to the sound of the engine.. i have a drony exhaust and a hi wattage sound system always on.

    My tech did service in june and after i showed him the video i posted last week, he says if it was making noise he would have heard it back then. i have no reason not to believe him....

    i was gonna drive it in tuesday but i guess i need to set up a tow some how. just feel like getting nut kicked.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I know the pennzoil won't have what your car needs. The valvoline ONLY their Racing 20/50 has a suitable additive package. This likely started a Long time ago.. I've pulled a Number of rockers over the years that were still quiet but they were BEAT.

    You have just worn past the point of the lifter being able to take up the slack...that's the bad part.

    Lemme know how you make out...you Might get lucky and have a failed lifter, but I don't see that nearly as much..

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Long sigh.......
    I figured at some point this engine would start to falter. I was expecting something more quick like timing chain death rattle.

    Crazy thing is it drives great. Good power. I just refinished a set of 3 piece rims for it too.

    If salvageable I reckon this will cost me in the high thousands? On a car worth low thousands. I'll keep u all informed

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    HI GUys, so my tech checked out the engine today

    the cam lobe is warn...as with some rockers.

    the components were getting adequate oil.

    SO options I have are what, being this a euro 500.

    Ebay has a used cam set of euros but im sure they have some level of wear.....and of course there are Febi versions but i assume they are american cams. As with parts.com have cams for like 400 each but again i assume they are american versions.....i dunno?

    My tech said that if i just buy some new rockers and keep the used cam the sound may go away but will likely come back....not sure of point of that...

    question is if i dont do anything what is the end game or result..---- catastrophic failure?

    Jono mentioned ECE cams a few post back......can u expand on that thought what that means and entails? BTW loved seeing your cars at monterey and great petrolicious vid.

    anyways before i ramble on...this car for those who dont know is single family ownership since new and ive been driving it for past 15 yrs so ofcourse has emotional connection which may result in $$$$$$$ spending....i just want to make sure i make the right decisions and appreciate your help
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I think with some patience, you will come up with the cam(s) and replacing the system will be less than what you think. KRH in Aussieland has a set of cams I found him from a member here, not sure if he installed them but they are HCE p/n and they were about $400 us for the pair. So I would spend to have it repaired if it were me. There is some wisdom in performing same action on both sides, refreshing head gaskets, cam sprockets, chain rails upper and lower, crank seal etc. But if you can only manage one side then that's it, the rest will need to happen at some point. Its just her time, or will be soon. good luck, keep us posted.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    If you get new cams, you have to install a new set of rocker arms. It's not cheap, but you need to do it.

    I have owned my 560SEC for more than 15 years now, and I changed my oil religiously every 2,000-3,000 miles. What happened with me (which precipitated my M117 Top-End Rebuild) back in 2010, was a very loud tapping noise, combined with puffs of blue smoke when starting up from a traffic light. I also used about 1-1.5 quarts of oil between oil changes. This was within the published MB spec for the M117 engine, but it was too much IMHO. The engine had always used a bit of oil since I bought it with ~140K miles on it, but it had very gradually gotten worse.

    At that time, the engine had 183,000 miles on it.

    This meant that:
    a) the valve guides and seals had worn to the point where there was oil leakdown into the cylinders, hence the blue smoke puffs
    b) there had been a lubrication failure on the passenger side valvetrain, which resulted in one cam lobe showing major wear (along with corresponding rocker arms), and two or three other lobes showing considerable, visual wear.

    This failure of lubrication, I believe, was due to a change in the formulation of the motor oil I had been using (Chevron Supreme) due to the evolving specifications, resulting in less zinc and phosphorus in the formulation. There also MAY have been a blockage in the cam oiler tube that attaches to the top of the passenger-side cam towers, but I do not believe this to be the case in reality.

    You can see the photos of the carnage in my thread.

    The cam on the passenger side was replaced, along with the rocker arms. The car has run for more than 60,000 miles just fine with the new cam and rockers/followers. The engine is still running with the original cam and rockers on the driver's side.

    The "fix" for this was to switch to motor oil with high levels of friction and impact-reducing ZDDP in the oil. The very best oil on the market for doing this, specifically designed for older cars with these types of valvetrains, is the Brad Penn 20W-50 grade oil (I live in the Southern US, so I go with the slightly heavier 20W-50. I also used 20W-50 when I lived in Portland, Oregon when I ran Chevron Supreme oil). It was recently rebranded as "Penn Grade 1" but it is the same oil.

    https://www.penngrade.com/penngrade-1/

    So, rebuild your valvetrain, and switch to a more appropriate motor oil, and you will have no more problems. Jono will vouch for this oil being the very best stuff you can use for the M117 valvetrain to avoid wear-related problems caused by lubrication issues.

    You can order Penn Grade 1 via Amazon, which is about the best price you can get. I think you can also get it at other places online like JEGGS and such (hot-rod performance shops). I am lucky enough to have a local hot-rod shop that retails it by the case for about the same price it is available on Amazon.

    Good luck.
    Cheers,
    Gerry

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  81. #53
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    HI GUys, so my tech checked out the engine today

    the cam lobe is warn...as with some rockers.

    the components were getting adequate oil.

    SO options I have are what, being this a euro 500.

    Ebay has a used cam set of euros but im sure they have some level of wear.....and of course there are Febi versions but i assume they are american cams. As with parts.com have cams for like 400 each but again i assume they are american versions.....i dunno?

    My tech said that if i just buy some new rockers and keep the used cam the sound may go away but will likely come back....not sure of point of that...

    question is if i dont do anything what is the end game or result..---- catastrophic failure?

    Jono mentioned ECE cams a few post back......can u expand on that thought what that means and entails? BTW loved seeing your cars at monterey and great petrolicious vid.

    anyways before i ramble on...this car for those who dont know is single family ownership since new and ive been driving it for past 15 yrs so ofcourse has emotional connection which may result in $$$$$$$ spending....i just want to make sure i make the right decisions and appreciate your help
    Not that I was Wanting to win, but yea...that's what I figured. It's been happening for a LONG time just finally got to the point where your lifter couldn't comensate anymore. If you had solids you would have known a LOT sooner.

    Are the proper Euro sticks available or are they selling US bits? The euro's def have more Pop. The ECE/late 300HP cams have a bit more yet which is why I recomended them..if you're going to buy new, buy the hottest you can that doesn't require other mods. You'll really want to get the tri y's on there to take advantage of them though...

    Slapping some new rockers on there would be a straight waste of money.

    Anywho, I'd blame this failure on oil that did Not have the proper additive package. Stick with the Brad Penn or Redline Racing 20/50.

    Also, is your tech familiar with setting up new cams/rockers on a 117? You need to check clearance w/ the lifters pumped up and change the shim/puck accordingly. He will need a special tool/gauge for this task. If he Doesn't set it up right you'll be right back to where you were not terribly far down the road, or you'll have valves that don't seat 100% and she'll miss or burn a valve.

    Hope that helps some!

    Jono
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Thanks for your replies. .... I'm in process of reading your threads of your top end build.

    Bondavi had asked to see what my oils I was using were. Here's what I found per records

    6/17 Castrol gtx 20w5 192000 - Tonys MB
    6/16 chevron 10w40 189000 - Johnson Motor cars
    7/15 chevron 10w40 186990 - Johnson motor cars
    7/14 castrol gtx 20w50 184400 Tonys
    3/13 Castrol gtx 20w 50 180000 Tonys Mb in Santa Ana
    12/11 Penzoil 20w50 177000 @ MR MB motors
    4/11 Penzoil 20w50 175000 MR MB
    8/10 Penzoil 20w50 173000 mr mb
    10/07 Unknown while in Florida at 165000 -- Big gap between 2010 oil change....interesting
    11/06 mobil 1 15/50 at ultimate euro in Ft Lauderdale 159000
    1/06 Mobil 1 MB of Orland park 154000
    5/05 Unknown, probably 20 50, Bruce strauss auto care 151000
    12/04 same as above 148000
    4/04 same as above 142000
    10/03 as above 138000

    all oil changes in the 1990's were around 3000 miles apart, of assumed 20 50 oil but no details noted.

    First service record MB of Piccaddilly April 1985

    The cams I find on parts.com or Mercedes dealer sites I assume are american version cams right? Would those even work in my car.

    In regards to my tech he has worked on MB for past 40 yrs and only MB. I'm in orange Cali. And I know there are lots of shops in this area but the car is with tony now and I am comfortable with him and his experience. Jono , if u and Gerry would like to make a field trip over to lend a hand please do

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    None of those oils are going to have the High levels of Zinc etc that our engines need...minus the M1 15/50.

    Any cams you'll find online here from MB will be US cams. Sure they'll work but you'll wonder why your car got Slow.

    I was just out west, already came home..sorry buddy..
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Thanks for the useful information about motor oils. Red Line oils are available around my country, so I checked their application guide which recommended 10W40 Motor Oil: https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=5 Would you use this for M117? Summer season temperatures around here are anything between 50 to 90 Fahrenheit.

    My engine had 161 000 miles when its heads were rebuilt. Valve guides were worn out of tolerances but I guess seals were ok since it wasn't smoking. There was a very slight ticking but none of the rockers were actually worn. However, on closer inspection there was incipient wear on many of them. I think at least one of the cams (and rockers) were already replaced at some point of the car's life. There were actually no symptoms of worn valvetrain, and as you might have read the whole thread, the reason to the the head(s) off was totally different.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    I only run the 25/50 Racing Redline in any of my 117/119's.
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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Penn Grade 1 = great for M117s, M103s, etc.
    RedLine = great for M119s, M104s, etc.

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    Re: M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    i hear you about the oils now....obviously whats done is done now....

    not gonna lie, but obviously not being a mechanic i would believe that whatever my MB mechanic is using is the right oil.....im not blaming them or anyone and ofcourse when you read thru past forum "what is the best oils" threads on any website there are dozens of answers to what is best etc...

    i performed oil changes religiously and yet such has happened.....right now its all about getting her back and better than ever...she needs to cross the 200000 mile mark and in 6 yrs be my daughters first car ....

    i saw that the pengrade is a partial synthetic....so those are ok for these engines? i guess

    a yr ago i purchased a 89 911 carrera, my local porsche guy only uses castrol gtx in these old cars....and of course when u go on pelican or rennlist everyone has an opinion...so its kinda tricky


    in regards to finding cams....i dont want my car to be slow....so whats best source to finding what i have or even something better....ebay has used euro cams but who knows how they will hold up.

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    M117 help needed (lound knocking noise) Long post!

    Don’t be fooled by the marketing —the Penn Grade 1 is a dino oil. But it’s extremely high quality and has the right ingredients and is time-tested. It works.

    Many 911 enthusiasts as well as muscle car guys with tappet engines use Brad Penn. as I said it’s great stuff, even Jono will agree. I’ve yet to hear a lubrication horror story with the Brad Penn oil.

    Full synthetic doesn’t automatically mean always good. My philosophy is that these engines were designed to use dino oil, so use what they were designed to use. Same with the transmissions — designed to use dino based Dexron II fluid, not fancy full synthetic modern Dex VI fluids. So I use Dino Dex III ATF, which is the closest available to the original spec stuff. I know others’ philosophy differs and that’s OK. BUT, modern does not always & automatically mean better.

    The same thing happened to me with religious oil changes and good care — don’t fault yourself. The problem isn’t horrible to fix. The oil spec changed and the oils became less protective, and we/shops didn’t pay attention to that & paid the price. You fix it, change the oil, and move on & don’t worry about it anymore.

    I opted not to go wild and just replace what had broken with stock spec items, and nothing AMG or fancy. I’ve been just fine for 60K+ miles after doing the work myself. It is an opportunity to source other stuff, and you should if you want to, and want to spend some big bucks.

    The SEC even in stock US form is not a slow car. If you want to wake it up, get some Tri-Y exhaust manifolds and downpipes, for an instant 25 HP.

    After that, the next best & cheapest thing you can do is to change the rear diff gearing from the super-tall 2.47 US version to a shorter gearset of say 3.06. That wakes the car up quite a bit off the line, and while you’ll lose 8-10 MPH off the 155 MPH top speed of the vehicle, and you’ll be rolling 800 RPM higher at 80 MPH and you’ll lose 0.5-1 MPG of fuel economy, the car is much livelier. If losing 1 MPG on a 14-15 MPG rating bothers a person, I always ask why they are driving a 126/M117/Benz in the first place.

    Anyhoo, go wild and add performance stuff if you want to, but it will cost you. Could be fun if you plan to keep the car forever. There is a lot of bullshit discussion about 126 performance over at Banzworld, as you know.


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