Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: K1 / K2 spring kit

  1. #1
    Member Hakie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Uithoorn, Netherlands
    Posts
    93

    K1 / K2 spring kit

    A few weeks ago i changed oil and filter of an automatic transmission from a friends W126. He had troubles with hard shift and slipping gear. For that reason we also replaced the K1 and K2 springs. He ordered the parts as i have no experiance with this K1 and K2 spring kits!
    It turned out to be a major improvement for the transmission. It shifts very smooth now, almost perfect.

    When i am going to change oil and filter for the E500 and 400E i want to replace the springs also and hope to get an improvement in shift too. Also as a "while i am in there" thing.

    What i know about the spring kit is:

    The K1 spring kit (new type) is universal and has partnumber A126 270 4477
    That should fit in our transmissions?

    The K2 spring kit has multiple partnumbers: A126 270 xx35
    Witch one should i order for our transmissions?

    I searched the forum for this subject but could not find anything pointing to this partnumbers?

    The costs of the kit's ordered at the dealer are under $10 each, so that is why i think it is worth it to replace them?


    IMG_2225.JPGIMG_2226.JPG

    From Gsxr's site:

    IMG_2223.JPG

  2. #2
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,396

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    There have been some changes to the springs through the years. Some of those springs were in a TSB on our ng, some are for 722.4xx, and some address specific issues. The K2 is the example there.

    There is a superior shift kit available for ~ $45. It has several options for making the shifts firmer or softer.

    Those kits are the accumulator kits. I went through last year and ordered every one available and experimented. No notes in my hand- but I believe for most(unless you have a broken spring), that you can replace the K2(effecting 2-->3 shift) and move the old K2 into the K1 position. Monkeying with the shift kit plan on removing and changing springs 2 or 3 times. K1 and K2 are on either ends of the same spool. So changing one effects the other...

    You can turn up the pressure slightly which will quicken shifting. Clean fluid will improve shifting.

    Is it worth replacing them? If you are not experiencing a problem- don't touch it. If you want to improve something- please give us more details on how it is shifting.


    I've got a 1992 first gear start valve body built with improvements, just hasn't been tested yet.

    Michael
    Last edited by samiam44; 1 Week Ago at 05:06 PM.

  3. #3
    Member Hakie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Uithoorn, Netherlands
    Posts
    93

    K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post

    There is a superior shift kit available for ~ $45.....

    Is it worth replacing them? If you are not experiencing a problem- don't touch it. If you want to improve something- please give us more details on how it is shifting.

    Michael
    Thanks Michael,

    I have 3 cars with automatic transmission. All of them shift ok, but can be improved because the shifts 2-3 3-4 can be "firm". Not really something to worry about but when this can be fixed with new K1 and K2 springs, why not do that? It dont costs much.
    I read about the superior kit but thought of keeping the partnumbers original Mercedes.
    After replacing them in the W126 the other day i was surprised of the effect. Better than only an oil and filter change.
    Is it not so that the springs wear out a little after so many years and replacement is a good thing?
    My thought was to change the springs as a job while i am in there. There must be a valid K2 mercedes partnumber for 400/500 transmissions?
    Changing the springs only still is a time consuming job so i prefer not to experiment with that. When i am not sure about the right parts i will leave it alone.
    Last edited by Hakie; 1 Week Ago at 11:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    21

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    I have the superior Shift Kit installed in my 560SEC and also in my 300CE and it greatly improved the shifts and got rid of the occasional flaring on the 300CE.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to spkalka For This Useful Post:

    Hakie (1 Week Ago)

  6. #5
    Senior Member Eno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Doha, Qatar
    Posts
    189

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    I ordered a month ago a sring ‘kit’ made of 21 or 22 springs for my 92 500E but I don’t remember what was it called exactly?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Eno For This Useful Post:

    Hakie (1 Week Ago)

  8. #6
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    18,707

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    The K1 factory spring upgrade (126-270-44-77) will slightly firm up the 2-3 upshift. You only want to do this if the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts are normal, but 2-3 is soft or flaring. Also, it's possible a previous owner may have already installed this, can't tell until you remove the old one and measure the wire diameter on the springs (they are 0.1-0.2mm thicker on the new springs). I'm not aware of any factory spring upgrade for the K2, which affects the 3-4 upshift.

    The Superior kit allows going even firmer beyond what the 126-270-44-77 will do, along with parts to adjust other shifts. Again, unless you are having shift issues, I wouldn't mess with anything. Pics of the Superior kit, and their instruction sheet, are here:
    http://124performance.com/images/W12...erior_springs/

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Christian_K (1 Week Ago), Eno (1 Week Ago), Hakie (1 Week Ago)

  10. #7
    Senior Member Eno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Doha, Qatar
    Posts
    189

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Where can one buy the so called Superior Kits?
    Are they after all market?
    Does MB produce such Superior Kits?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  11. #8
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    18,707

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    The Superior (brand name) kit is available from various vendors in the USA, including sellers on eBay. Here's a couple links:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=superior+K722A-G

    https://www.google.com/search?q=supe...=lnms&tbm=shop

    Links above are for the 722 kit for gas engines. There is a different kit for diesels.


  12. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Eno (1 Week Ago)

  13. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    21

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    https://superiortransmission.com/pro...erior-k722a-d/

    The last one I ordered on ebay for $85 shipped. The one before also from ebay for $65 shipped.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to spkalka For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (1 Week Ago), Hakie (1 Week Ago), TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  15. #10
    Member Hakie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Uithoorn, Netherlands
    Posts
    93

    K1 / K2 spring kit

    After contact with the owner of the W126, these are the 2 mercedes partnumbers we build in the transmission. I will order the 2 and decide when i change fluid and filter If i replace the spring kit's. I think he payed only 12-14 dollar for the 2 kits.
    Thanks for all the input so far!

    IMG_2227.JPG

    Found some extra info of the K2 kit:

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...it/1262700535/
    Last edited by Hakie; 1 Week Ago at 01:00 PM.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hakie For This Useful Post:

    Eno (1 Week Ago), gsxr (1 Week Ago), TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  17. #11
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,396

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Hakie,

    Maybe you need to lower the line pressure slightly if all your shifts are too firm? As a rule, springs don't settle if made properly. Manytimes, you will find a broken spring where a rust pit had started and it failed with fatigue cycling. You can read the superior's information, but I know it has several springs for each K1 and K2. I think you can go softer, firm or extra firm. MB kits are nice between the color coordination and you get new seals.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to samiam44 For This Useful Post:

    Hakie (6 Days Ago)

  19. #12
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    18,707

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Uou can read the superior's information, but I know it has several springs for each K1 and K2. I think you can go softer, firm or extra firm.
    IIRC, Superior only offers firmer-than-stock for K1 (2-3) and K2 (3-4) upshifts, and only offers a softer-than-stock modification for the 1-2 upshift.

    If you are picky about shift quality, it can take a lot of trial and error experimentation, with 1-2 hours labor each time to drop the pan and/or valvebody (if necessary). Not fun!


  20. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Eno (1 Week Ago), Hakie (6 Days Ago), Klink (1 Week Ago), samiam44 (1 Week Ago), TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  21. #13
    Member Hakie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Uithoorn, Netherlands
    Posts
    93

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Hakie,

    Maybe you need to lower the line pressure slightly if all your shifts are too firm? As a rule, springs don't settle if made properly. Manytimes, you will find a broken spring where a rust pit...
    Yes Michael, i think the best thing to do is inspect the springs first and than decide what to do. It is not a big problem in my case. Also it is a bit complicated for me to explain the situation. I find therms as "hard, harsh and firm" shifts.
    Maybe i just have to live with it. The cars are all 20+ years old and that comes with some wear in the trans.
    Also the oil and filter change can change the feel of shifting. The cars are in winter season soon. In that period i will do de transmission maintenance.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Hakie For This Useful Post:

    TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  23. #14
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    18,707

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    The type of ATF can change shift quality... in general, fully-synthetic can provide slightly more consistent shifts between cold and hot. If you change from a Dexron-III spec (7.5 viscosity) to a Dexron-VI spec (6.0 viscosity) you may need to adjust the vac modulator, and/or possibly fiddle with some springs. I prefer to use the fluid spec the 722.3/4/5/6 was originally designed for (7.5 cSt) but that's just me. There's been discussion / debate about this in other forum threads.

    Also, if ALL the shifts are too firm or too soft, this can be adjusted via the vacuum modulator. If the vacuum modulator is original or old, it is not a bad idea to replace it, I had some intermittent odd shifting (flaring, IIRC) on one transmission which was cured with a new modulator.


  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Hakie (6 Days Ago), TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  25. #15
    "Nit-Picky and
    Bitter Mechanic"
    jhodg5ck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lilburn, GA
    Posts
    1,936

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    If you get clever you can firm them ALL up...I don't have my notes in front of me but b/w doubling up on springs, seeing what can be made to fit where you can build one AGGRESSIVE valve body.

    ...it makes for a good time
    Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman
    Mercedes Repair Atlanta
    http://www.blueridgemb.com/
    08 E63 05 E55 Estate 95 S600 94 SL700 93 500E Brumos/RTech 92 500E T/R 93 500E (122)
    91 560SEC ECE 87 Hammer Coupe, Sedan and Wagon 6.0L 32V 86 560SEL AMG 6.0L 32V

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jhodg5ck For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (6 Days Ago), Hakie (6 Days Ago), maw1124 (4 Days Ago), TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  27. #16
    I do believe...! Christian_K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dieburg - Germany
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,426

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The K1 factory spring upgrade (126-270-44-77) will slightly firm up the 2-3 upshift. You only want to do this if the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts are normal, but 2-3 is soft or flaring.
    Very important note! Please do consider this.
    Normally its used because 2-3 upshift ist the most used shift on these boxes and it wears out at first (besides the reverse). So its starts to get super soft (and long) and then flares.
    On my gearbox i did this spring update preemptively without knowing the gearbox, nor driven it. The result is that all shifts are good, but the 2-3 is veeeery quick and clearly noticable. I played around alot with the modulating pressue which adjusts shift speed and softness for all gearshifts, but when i do the pressur so that 2-3 shift is perfect, all other shifts are tooo soft and take to long (almost flare).
    Christian K.
    06/1992 500E - DB199 Blauschwarz-Metallic
    09/1989 300E - DB172 Anthrazitgrau-Metallic
    11/1998 E430 - DB339 Violan-Metallic
    06/2003 CL55 AMG KOMPRESSOR - DB197 Obsidianschwarz-Metallic


  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Christian_K For This Useful Post:

    TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  29. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    7

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian_K View Post
    On my gearbox i did this spring update preemptively without knowing the gearbox, nor driven it. The result is that all shifts are good, but the 2-3 is veeeery quick and clearly noticable. I played around alot with the modulating pressue which adjusts shift speed and softness for all gearshifts, but when i do the pressur so that 2-3 shift is perfect, all other shifts are tooo soft and take to long (almost flare).
    So you mean, if I want to swap a transmission, I shouldn't do it? As it's what I'm just intended to do.
    Never driven the trans, should be just fine. 600SEC though. And my car isn't stock either. (510hp)
    Okay, maybe, I'll get a fluid flush and we'll see how it goes. Also I really want the 1st gear start badly.

    Anyway, I stongly recommend anyone to use Dexron-II in the gearbox. DxIII is way weaker and burns clutches. DxII makes shifts quick and stable, although feels strange when cold.
    I'm looking forward pouring Redline Type-F ATF with 10cct viscosity index.
    Last edited by whatever; 2 Days Ago at 03:18 AM.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to whatever For This Useful Post:

    TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  31. #18
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,396

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Whatever?

    "Anyway, I stongly recommend anyone to use Dexron-II in the gearbox. DxIII is way weaker and burns clutches. DxII makes shifts quick and stable, although feels strange when cold.
    I'm looking forward pouring Redline Type-F ATF with 10cct viscosity index. "

    What brand are you purchasing D2 fluid? I don't understand what you mean when you say a fluid is "weaker and burns clutches". Is the viscosity lower?

    I'm running redline in mine now- shifts are fine. Quick and crisp with the v/b changes. But it was a lot of work. For most, I bet they can do a shift kit/new flluid and then play with modulator pressure a bit and be happy- if the transmission is healthy. Type F fluid has [no] friction modifiers and seems to help if you have glazed some discs. It may help, but you should start saving coins for a rebuild.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to samiam44 For This Useful Post:

    TerryA (22 Hours Ago)

  33. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    7

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Yeah, I know that Type-F has no friction modifiers, which is good. A friction modifiers decrease friction. With few cars on Dexron-III or universal ATF (Castrol universal ATF, Chevron D/M, as recommended by some 722.9 trans guru), I've experienced weak clamping force, overall smooth behaviour of 722.3, which is not what it's intended to do. I managed to flush the system with simple Mobil 220 and became brilliant. No clunking or whatever at idle, but great clamping force and strong shifts. Which is what I like when my right foot is heavy.
    Now I thought, maybe I was wrong, allowed a Chevron D/M fluid flush with a v/b interchanged on my other 722.3. And it cooked up within half a year. It was really better on Dx2. So... no.. I think I'll never use anything other than Dx2 in 722.3. I wanted to try synthetic Dx2, but found out that it's lower viscosity. So only option is get a big trans radiator if you want a stable Dx2 operation. Or maybe try Type-F as well. Redline's Type-F is 10cct. So it's a little like mid-cold Dexron-2.

    I wonder what happens with high modulator pressure on type-F? is it faster?
    My intention is to make the trans shift faster with higher pressure. But logic tells that due to higher viscosity the actual shift time may not be fast.

    Also on a new old stock E500 trans under heavy acceleration I've had 2-3 flare. Tried to correct it with higher pressure, went better, until the fluid heats up too much and a slight flare appears. The fluid was Dx2 though. That's probably when you should get ...4477 2-3 flare kit.

  34. #20
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,396

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Understand now Alex- sorry I was a little slow or harsh.


    I think modulator pressure shortens the shift time. It fills the accumulator thicker- now cold. With cold weather running you might experience- I would do Redline race which is a thicker type-F. I've experienced recently a 2-3 flare and it was corrected by checking the fluid level which was ~ 0.5 liter low.
    I think the synthetic versions are better as the viscosity range is narrower over operating range. My aux trans cooler fan seems to run most when idling at a stop. I think someone mentioned racing and only seeing transmission temp of 200F on the track.

    Michael

  35. #21
    "Nit-Picky and
    Bitter Mechanic"
    jhodg5ck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lilburn, GA
    Posts
    1,936

    Re: K1 / K2 spring kit

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Yeah, I know that Type-F has no friction modifiers, which is good. A friction modifiers decrease friction. With few cars on Dexron-III or universal ATF (Castrol universal ATF, Chevron D/M, as recommended by some 722.9 trans guru), I've experienced weak clamping force, overall smooth behaviour of 722.3, which is not what it's intended to do. I managed to flush the system with simple Mobil 220 and became brilliant. No clunking or whatever at idle, but great clamping force and strong shifts. Which is what I like when my right foot is heavy.
    Now I thought, maybe I was wrong, allowed a Chevron D/M fluid flush with a v/b interchanged on my other 722.3. And it cooked up within half a year. It was really better on Dx2. So... no.. I think I'll never use anything other than Dx2 in 722.3. I wanted to try synthetic Dx2, but found out that it's lower viscosity. So only option is get a big trans radiator if you want a stable Dx2 operation. Or maybe try Type-F as well. Redline's Type-F is 10cct. So it's a little like mid-cold Dexron-2.

    I wonder what happens with high modulator pressure on type-F? is it faster?
    My intention is to make the trans shift faster with higher pressure. But logic tells that due to higher viscosity the actual shift time may not be fast.

    Also on a new old stock E500 trans under heavy acceleration I've had 2-3 flare. Tried to correct it with higher pressure, went better, until the fluid heats up too much and a slight flare appears. The fluid was Dx2 though. That's probably when you should get ...4477 2-3 flare kit.

    Good questions..

    On the type F I find I can Typically dial back modulator pressure some and still keep Quick/Positive shifts. One of the Many reasons I'm such a fan of F...be it conventional or synthetic (redline racing atf is the most reliable source these days).

    What/where are you running your car hard enough to really get the trans HOT...? We do endurance racing w/ the track rat so she gets 2.5 hour stints 8-10 hours @ a clip. Right now we're running a large hayward And the trans cooler from a W140 S600 Euro..even comes with a nice little fan that we have switched for when we come into the pits.

    I think you would Really like the Redline fluid. I sure do!

    If you REALLY want a bangin' valve body rock out that Superior kit. the directions kinda suck and you might have to improvise a little for the 1-2 shift but it does a damn good job.

    jono
    Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman
    Mercedes Repair Atlanta
    http://www.blueridgemb.com/
    08 E63 05 E55 Estate 95 S600 94 SL700 93 500E Brumos/RTech 92 500E T/R 93 500E (122)
    91 560SEC ECE 87 Hammer Coupe, Sedan and Wagon 6.0L 32V 86 560SEL AMG 6.0L 32V

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jhodg5ck For This Useful Post:

    Klink (18 Hours Ago), Trae (1 Hour Ago)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-18-2016, 02:47 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-14-2012, 04:03 PM
  3. Spring booster?
    By Vame808 in forum Brakes, Suspension and Steering
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-26-2012, 10:48 PM
  4. Spring pad PNs
    By 500AMM in forum Brakes, Suspension and Steering
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-10-2011, 08:49 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 05:44 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •