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Thread: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

  1. #1
    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I am finally getting around to replace the VFC on my engine. MB's service manual points to several special tools to be used for this simple R&R. Purchasing the tools is an option I would like to avoid for the time being. Are there any tips&tricks out there to loosen and remove the center bolt and remove the clutch or should I remove the fan prior to removing the clutch. Space is just as limited on this engine as in the BMW E36 but I manage by locking the clutch with a contraption I made on the bimmers, which I can't use on the MB.

    I bought the ACM clutch. Now Dave mentioned a shorter bolt is required, M10X50mm. Any chance there is a MB p/n for it out there?

    Thanks guys..
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    If you pull the radiator, the fan clutch is easy to R&R. With the radiator in place, you'll need to fabricate the tool shown in the image below. Also shown is the p/n for the shorter bolt (dealer only item).

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    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Ok that should be no problem. Thanks for the specific sizing picture. Is that a 8mm allen? Is this what should be used to stop the pulley from turning by inserting it into a hole located around its edge and from behind?
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Benzer
    Ok that should be no problem. Thanks for the specific sizing picture. Is that a 8mm allen?
    Yes, that is an 8mm allen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Benzer
    Is this what should be used to stop the pulley from turning by inserting it into a hole located around its edge and from behind?
    No. The 8 mm allen (cut down to ~30mm long) is to break free & re-tighten the center bolt.

    This photo shows the pulley holding tool, and the spinner tool (home-made). I need to get a photo of the factory spinner tool. Ignore the OM60x reference, they also work on the M119. The 'stubby' 8mm driver shown is too deep and will not work with the OE Sachs fan clutch, there is not enough room. Your reference to a hole in the pulley only applies to the M103/M104 engines, not the OM60x or M119/M120.

    The FSM procedure is here - note it says the radiator must be removed, and this is true if you want to use the stubby socket (factory tool) depicted:
    http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%2 ... 0-3120.pdf

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Ok, now I can see the need for the cut hex key. The E36 bimmers have 32 mm Nut that is a PITA to remove and hold the clutch in place, specially if anti-seize has not been previously applied.., thanks Dave..
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Final tip: When re-installing, DO NOT over-tighten the center bolt. It just needs to be snug. The torque spec is pretty low, but you can't get a torque wrench on it unless the radiator is out. With the ACM clutch at least you'll have more room, as you'll find out when you install it... much easier than the Sachs.

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Dave,

    I'm replacing another fan clutch for a E400. seems like the damn bolt is fused on. The pulleys spin as I try to unscrew it, but that's about it. I sure as hell don't feel like taking the rad out, but will if I have to.. Any tips you might think of..? Is it a right hand thread like in my E420..?

    Thkxz,...
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    E400? You mean 400E? W124 / M119, correct? Standard bolt thread, no left-hand threads here. You are experiencing first-hand why you DO NOT over-tighten this bolt.

    I had one years ago that started stripping the bolt head; I had to pull the radiator, weld the 8mm Allen to the bolt to get enough torque on it without stripping the head, and then replace with a new bolt after getting the old one out. Total nightmare. I think I saved the carnage, I should take a photo of it....

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Ahhhh, kinda figured that was the way it was headed..,btw yes 400E/M119.. Well, without the rad, you think an easy-out might work or slamming a 21/64 " hex in there or even going at it with the impact and a couple of hexes or torx from Horror Freight..? Unfortunately I don't weld..

    I can feel a little play on the hex by now, so its almost on its way to getting stripped. It still has the original VFC I presume. (I thought the one in my car was bad, this one spins without any resistance..)

    Thxz,
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Anybody have reliability information on the ACM/Hambertech unit?

    What's considered a good life span for a fan clutch? 100k miles, 150k? I'm in Texas and my 6.0 liter seems to not like the stop and go as much as the 420e. As Jono said.. 5mm less headgasket- don't want to stress the engine with overheating.

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I think it's more of a time issue than mileage, but if the clutch lasts 10 years / 100kmi, I'd say it served its purposes. Some may last longer, but it's quite likely toast by 15 years or 150kmi. Sometimes it's hard to tell the age until you remove it and look for the date code painted on. Fresh ones are engaged a LOT more often, and you can hear it!!!

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Dave,

    So are you running one of these? I'm wondering on how these aftermarket ones are holding up versus the OE. If they don't last.. maybe I'm better with the OEM in the long run?? Does the ACM still engage fully @ 105F?
    Can someone point me to a source for them.. or at least the wirlpac part number?


    Thanks,


    Michael

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I ran the ACM one for a few months last summer, and it was engaged much sooner (lower temp) than the old/worn OE clutch, similar to a new OE clutch. My 92 has a more recent OE clutch and it acts similar to the ACM. I pulled it out to swap into my '95, which has a totally dead clutch, but haven't had time yet (need to do that ASAP though as it's hot here). No idea if the ACM lasts as long as the OE Sachs, but at roughly 1/4 the price, if it even lasts half as long you're still saving $$$, lol.

    M119.974/.975 fan clutch = OE part number 119-200-01-22, $607 at AutoHaus, $N/A at ElAutoParts, $521+SH at parts.com
    ACM equivalent in WhirledPack number = G5010-34879, $137 at AutoHaus, $133 at ElAutoPArts, $N/A at parts.com

    Don't forget the ACM clutch requires OE bolt # 000912-010222 (must be OE, the aftermarket bolt has the wrong head, won't fit).


    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Dave,

    Chatted with Jono- the ACM clutch is now made in China. He quit using them due to poor quality when the off-shored the part. I though there was a guy on benzworld whom's clutch came apart and took out the radiator, fan, Trans cooler lines...

    I may try and re-fill mine.

    Michael

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I've not yet heard any official reports of the ACM clutch failures, so if you can find a forum thread, I'd be interested in reading that. I've had an ACM clutch on my OM603 for a couple years now with zero problems, btw.

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I fought with the fan clutch a couple of days ago with no success. Today after literally trying all kinds of weird S&^t, a friend was able to well my 'special tool' Worked like a charm. I did have to remove the damn radiator for better access of ratchet & socket. Luckily the bolt was not stripped. Below you can see the gizmo in action. It was used to keep the dam pulley from turning. That bolt was way, way, tighter than normal. Oh, and the VFC looks to be the original. So it was around 14 yrs old. Overheating..GONE..Took out the thermostat as well. A observation on the thermostat, EPC pointed out to one with housing included, however, the one that worked was the thermostat only..





    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    E500E Guru 500ESpain's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Does anyone know the correct part number for the clutch? I've seen several 1192000022 for sale at a very reasonable price but I can't find the correct part number on the EPC. The part is there but no part number.

    Thanks!
    Esteban

    1971 Seat 600E, 1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1984 Mercedes 300D, 1992 Mercedes 500E, 1995 Range Rover 4.6 HSE, 2005 Audi A4 2.5TDI Avant, 2007 Triumph Bonneville

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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    According to what I get its p/n 119-200-01-22, (you are missing the number one).
    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    119-200-00-22 is used on the W140 and R129 chassis. It is taller/thicker and will not fit in a W124.

    119-200-01-22 is only used in the W124 chassis. It costs more because it doesn't fit anything else so they don't make as many of them.

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member Benzer's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    And below is a prime example as to why you should NOT purchase junk on ebay. I installed an ACM on a E400, but [to save a few bucks] I bought this knock-off on ebay and installed it on MY E420. It lasted 200 miles. It could not take the centrifugal force and split in two, releasing all the silicone fluid inside my engine bay. Luckily it did not split in two while I was on I-49 or many bad things would have happened.

    I have an ACM installed on it now...
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    1995 E420 131K Daily D.
    VIN: WDBEA34E3SC151635

    "Destiny is said to be the power held to determine the course of success.
    And success is a direct result of effort"

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    E500E Guru 500ESpain's Avatar
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    FYI I've purchased the clutch (SACHS 2100 013 032) for 310 euro (free shipping to Spain) from www.recambiosviaweb.com
    Esteban

    1971 Seat 600E, 1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1984 Mercedes 300D, 1992 Mercedes 500E, 1995 Range Rover 4.6 HSE, 2005 Audi A4 2.5TDI Avant, 2007 Triumph Bonneville

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    $310 EUR is approx $450 USD. We can get the same clutch for ~$540 USD shipped in USA via parts.com.

    By comparison, the ACM clutch is ~$135 USD shipped (~$90 EUR). Pretty big difference...




    PS: That's crazy about the eBay clutch explosion in post #20!!
    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Yes, I know but it's the cheapest I could find handy here in Spain. Anyway, it is a big saving for the exact same part at the dealer.
    Esteban

    1971 Seat 600E, 1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1984 Mercedes 300D, 1992 Mercedes 500E, 1995 Range Rover 4.6 HSE, 2005 Audi A4 2.5TDI Avant, 2007 Triumph Bonneville

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Just found this on Eurocarparts in the UK - http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Me...4492df2b5&FVIC

    Can this be the real deal???

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul64 View Post
    Just found this on Eurocarparts in the UK - http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Me...4492df2b5&FVIC

    Can this be the real deal???
    This is highly interesting!
    Christian K.
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Indeed Christian - I did try to get on the BERU website partsfinder but couldn't get it to load properly. I guess that would be the cheapest option, back to the manufacturer direct....

    Paul

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Did anyone have any experience with the BERU unit - I want to get one as a spare and BERU is a pretty good Company; they make all the ignition system parts we use on a day to day basis........

    Paul

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Never heard of it before... but it might be worth a try, why don't you do it? ^^
    Christian K.
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    09/1989 300E - DB172 Anthrazitgrau-Metallic
    11/1998 E430 - DB339 Violan-Metallic
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Brief procedure to test your fan clutch:

    The mechanical fan clutch will be fully engaged with the engine temp at 90C, and probably will have engaged at a lower temp. If it's not engaged by 90C, it's defective. With the car in park and temp at 90C or higher, pop the hood, and rev the engine slowly. The fan should roar loudly up to ~3500rpm, you can hear it disengage by 4000rpm, then let the revs drop slowly and the fan should re-engage by ~3000rpm. If yours doesn't do this, either the clutch is bad, or there is a blockage directly ahead of the clutch as it needs hot air to trigger the bimetal strip.
    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I tried doing the test myself, but am not sure what the results are. With the car at just over 100, in park, there's a big fan on the inside between the radiator and engine that spins at what I'd call a moderate speed (not fast not slow). I hit the gas to bring rpm up to 4k slowly, but I was unable to tell whether I heard a fan or not (don't know what I'm listening for). There are two smaller fans on the front of the radiator by the horn which were not moving. Perhaps two people are needed to observe the fan roaring?

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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by jano View Post
    I tried doing the test myself, but am not sure what the results are. With the car at just over 100, in park, there's a big fan on the inside between the radiator and engine that spins at what I'd call a moderate speed (not fast not slow). I hit the gas to bring rpm up to 4k slowly, but I was unable to tell whether I heard a fan or not (don't know what I'm listening for). There are two smaller fans on the front of the radiator by the horn which were not moving. Perhaps two people are needed to observe the fan roaring?
    Jano, it's the large metal fan between the engine & radiator that you are checkout out (not the two smaller plastic fans on the front of the radiator). If you can't tell if the fan is roaring, then it isn't. It is LOUD when spinning at 2000-3000rpm, and will turn off by 4000rpm (also very easy to hear - gets much quieter all of a sudden). At idle it will spin at moderate speed; when revved up it spins fast. Based on what you describe, your mechanical fan clutch is not working.


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    Re: Vicous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Brief update on the fan clutch thingy:

    I used an optical tachometer from good ol' Harbor Freight (similar to this model, HF item # 66632) to test the fan clutch on two of my M119's yesterday. One has a good clutch and passes the "roar" test with flying colors. The other has a bad clutch and fails the "roar" test. It was ~90°F ambient temp for the test and both cars were at operating temp (85-95C on the dash gauge).

    Car #1 - Good Clutch:
    With the engine at ~650rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~810rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~790rpm (almost 98% lockup).
    I didn't think to test it at higher engine RPM's, I will do that in the future for grins.


    Car #2 - Bad Clutch:
    With the engine at ~650rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~810rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~275rpm (only ~35% lockup).
    With the engine at 1500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~1900rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~500rpm (only ~25% lockup).
    With the engine at 2500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~3200rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~500rpm (only ~15% lockup).


    Conclusion: With a bad fan clutch, the fan is spinning slower at freeway speeds than it does with a good clutch at IDLE. I have a couple more fans & clutches to test (one good, one bad) to get additional data. After I test those, I'll probably start a new thread with all the numbers. I may try to get a video of what it sounds & looks like with both a good and bad clutch, revved up to the disengagement point, etc. I also want to test the "good" clutch in winter on a cold day, just to see how it acts when not engaged. I suspect it may still drive the fan better than a 'dead' clutch.


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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Cool Dave!! Nothing like another way to test them! Roaring is pretty noticeable. It's the in-between bad and good where it gets tougher to make the call.

    FYI, Paul64, I don't think the part at the Eurocarparts link is correct for a W124.034/036. It says "206220200" which is not correct.


    Michael

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    Senior Member jano's Avatar
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Bad clutch, BAD!

    Taken in park with parking brake on, at just over 100C. Stuck white paper to fan and used a gizmo gauge with a red laser to read.
    Idle: 760
    2k rpm: 520
    3k rpm: 823
    4.5k rpm: 445

    Forgot about the pulley, oops!

    (edited to add more details)
    Last edited by jano; 08-10-2011 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Hi Michael,

    I wonder if that number - 206220200 - would be the BERU part number perhaps? I still can't get onto their website catalogue, perhaps it's worth a punt anyway - there's probably a sale or return for badly supplied parts.

    Paul

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Tested my wife's E420 over the past two days, first when warm but not hot enough to engage the fan; then when it was hot enough to engage the fan cutch. This car runs cool at 85-90°C in summer heat with the AC on, and the fan easily passes the audible "roar" test. The data shows that even with the fclutch disengaged, it still pulls more air than car #2 with the dead clutch:.

    Also - the M119 fan does do the "jerk to a stop" thing when you kill the engine, if the clutch is engaged. It stops almost instantly and freezes in place, it does not freewheel. I'll try to get some video of that.


    Car #3 - Good clutch, NOT engaged:
    With the engine at ~650rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~800rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~325rpm (~40% lockup).
    With the engine at 1500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~1900rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~410rpm (~22% lockup).
    With the engine at 2500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~3100rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~980rpm (~32% lockup).


    Car #3 - Good clutch, engaged:
    With the engine at ~650rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~800rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~775rpm (97% lockup).
    With the engine at 1500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~1900rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~1750rpm (92% lockup).
    With the engine at 2500rpm idle in park, pulley speed was ~3200rpm, actual fan blade speed was ~2600rpm (81% lockup).



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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Any word on the various number of clutches available on ebay lately for dirt cheap?
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Sauce View Post
    Any word on the various number of clutches available on ebay lately for dirt cheap?
    I am very suspicious of any clutch that is sold for <$100. Here are two I found on eBay, along with an ACM:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/220711396349
    Seller = macautopartsdiscounts, part brand is listed as "US Motor Works", $55 + $8 S&H.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/150606422277
    Seller = deutschepartsusa, part brand is listed as "HAMBURG TECHNIC GERMANY", $76 + $10 S&H.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/310046191064
    Seller = fivestar007, part brand is listed as "ACM", $195 with free S&H.


    Comments: I don't like that the first two are showing a photo of the OE Sachs clutch, which IMO is misleading and borders on false advertising. The seller with the ACM is showing an ACM clutch photo, which is good, but their price is lousy (you can get it elsewhere for <$140 delivered).

    I am certain the $55 clutch is total junk and probaby would fall apart like this one did. The $75 Hamburg clutch could be a re-packaged ACM, I'm not sure. Guess someone could order one up and try it. I recall a discussion about this elsewhere, maybe on Scott's forum many moons ago. Don't remember the verdict on Hamburg though.

    Peachpit forum thread (old):
    http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=264508

    Google search shows the Bimmer crowd is not impressed with 'Hamburg' and that they are indeed a Chinese-made clutch (although the ACM is supposedly now made in China too). FWIW, I've had an ACM/Vemo (think they're the same) clutch on my 300D for a couple years with no problems, still working fine. I don't have enough miles on my M119 ACM clutch to be able to say anything other than it worked great out of the box after I got the shorter bolt.



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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Any parts by "Hamburg Technic" I put in the same category as Üroparts -- i.e. DO NOT BUY list.

    By the way, the price has gone up on the M119/W124-specific fan clutches - now $520.80 at parts.com + probably $40-50 shipping (list price $725). O-U-C-H !!!

    Even if one would get 3-4 years out of an ACM, it is worth paying the price for them.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I just collected my car from the UK and drove back through France - total around 2000km.
    Here's a photo of the dashboard showing outside temp / speed / engine temp and the a/c was on 22C / first speed on the fan. All looks good to me and original coupling going strong after 200k...

    God bless the Germans!


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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    That's odd, your oil pressure is pointing higher than the normal maximum!
    (And damn, can't wait for my new visco fan... Or outside temp-sensor for that matter)

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Mine oil pressure gauge goes to the same level slightly above 3, I think (don't recall now).

    By the way, how do you guys cut the allen wrench to fit? Vice with hacksaw or sawsall? I don't think a dremel will be strong enough. Maybe get a cheapo hex wrench set from harbor freight? My clutch should be in this week from parts.com.

    Dave: did you use the nubby left over from the hex wrench on the spinner tool? Does the depth of the spinner tool have the same 30.5mm max depth requirement?


    jano

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by jano View Post
    By the way, how do you guys cut the allen wrench to fit? Vice with hacksaw or sawsall? I don't think a dremel will be strong enough. Maybe get a cheapo hex wrench set from harbor freight? My clutch should be in this week from parts.com.
    I think a hacksaw will just dull the teeth without cutting anything, but you could try. I forget if I burned up a Sawzall blade, or just used an abrasive cutoff wheel on an angle grinder, which is the preferred method for cutting hardened steel (including coil springs).


    Quote Originally Posted by jano View Post
    Dave: did you use the nubby left over from the hex wrench on the spinner tool? Does the depth of the spinner tool have the same 30.5mm max depth requirement?
    It's been years since I did this, but yes, I think I did use the piece left over to fabricate the spinner tool. You'll want to make the spinner tool depth fairly shallow, much less than 30mm! Just enough to engage the bolt head from the face of the clutch. Guess I should measure mine, eh?



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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Harbor Freight tools are cheap enough and soft enough that a hacksaw may actually work just fine One of the rare situations where a cheap tool may have some advantages !

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Harbor Freight tools are cheap enough and soft enough that a hacksaw may actually work just fine One of the rare situations where a cheap tool may have some advantages !
    Good point! Definitely worth a try. You'll know pretty quick if the saw is going to cut or not.


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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    i had my clutch replaced by my long-time mechanic (work actually performed by his new tech) on Thursday....after driving around for 1.5 days, i thought i'm good to go on a short 4 hr trip to the interior of BC....Saturday morning half way up the vaunted Coquahalla hiway...BOOM!!!....initially i thought i had a blowout at 80mph...fortunately i found my way off the hiway...quickly circled the car...looked up to see coolant steam pouring from under hood, came around the driver's side, peek at the temp gauge (110+)...shut it down...popped the hood...and OMG....rad shifted back...hit the fan...

    pics later....

    oh....towed back to Vancouver...dumped off at the shop....talked to him today...he was falling over himself apologizing...he said it would all be taken care of....problem...the fan is unobtainum...1+weeks out of deutchland....

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Coincidental ... wonder if something was not re-attached correctly. Hopefully your mechanic will be honest about it if they were responsible. Good luck. Sorry to hear this.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Sounds like the clips which hold the radiator to the crossmember were left out, and the radiator fell back against the spinning fan, and... *crunch*. Very ugly scene, probably requiring a new radiator, fan blade, and clutch...!


  50. #49
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by valvfloat View Post
    i had my clutch replaced by my long-time mechanic (work actually performed by his new tech) on Thursday....after driving around for 1.5 days, i thought i'm good to go on a short 4 hr trip to the interior of BC....Saturday morning half way up the vaunted Coquahalla hiway...BOOM!!!....initially i thought i had a blowout at 80mph...fortunately i found my way off the hiway...quickly circled the car...looked up to see coolant steam pouring from under hood, came around the driver's side, peek at the temp gauge (110+)...shut it down...popped the hood...and OMG....rad shifted back...hit the fan...

    pics later....

    oh....towed back to Vancouver...dumped off at the shop....talked to him today...he was falling over himself apologizing...he said it would all be taken care of....problem...the fan is unobtainum...1+weeks out of deutchland....
    the carnage...
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Day-um. Looks like the Davester called it -- was the radiator removed when your clutch was replaced? It didn't have to be. If so then it's a clear issue with the shop. That's a new radiator. Make sure the new one is a Behr with a reinforced neck. Fan looks gnarly. Good luck. Sounds like your shop will make it good. DEFINITELY check out that new clutch carefully too; there's a chance it could have been damaged (may not be able to see it visually) in the 'collision'. Those things (as you know) are spendy.

  52. #51
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    yes, the radiator was removed....

    that clutch is shot...look closely at in the third pic...you can see it snapped on the mount...likely from initial impact with the radiator...

    however, i think i/we can save a few buck and weld the fan back up...

  53. #52

    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    I think generaly the M119 Clutches are thick, no problem for a "W140 & R129" Clutches to be that thick, cause they got a good

    space to clear tha distance for replacement things, but "400E/E420 & 500E/E500" should has a thin Clutch, the "W124 V8s" has

    a narrow & dangerous space, thats makes some difficult to removal or replacement, and sometimes you may scratch the

    Radiator channels while works with a Clutch or fan,, i heard the diesel one is good to go with, but im not sure about it & if it

    with 4 fan bolts..?!?!

    ZAYED,,

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Uh-oh. I can't tell from the photos, but it's possible that the fan support (thingy the clutch bolts to) may be damaged. Not only is that part expensive, it's many hours labor to R&R. Hopefully the repairs will be covered by the shop.

    On a side note, you have an aftermarket clutch in there. Based on some information that recently came to light, I would recommend shelling out for the OE/Sachs clutch only, not the ACM or Vemo aftermarket clutches... they don't appear to disengage at high RPM like the Sachs. It would be worth paying the extra for the OE clutch, IMO.

    BTW - why bother welding the fan? A little epoxy and it will be good as new! LOL!


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  55. #54
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Uh-oh. I can't tell from the photos, but it's possible that the fan support (thingy the clutch bolts to) may be damaged. Not only is that part expensive, it's many hours labor to R&R. Hopefully the repairs will be covered by the shop.
    could you be more specific....?....you don't mean the pulley do you ?

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    snip" Originally Posted by jano
    By the way, how do you guys cut the allen wrench to fit? Vice with hacksaw or sawsall? I don't think a dremel will be strong enough. Maybe get a cheapo hex wrench set from harbor freight? My clutch should be in this week from parts.com.
    "

    The dremel will cut with a bit of patience and the cut-off wheel. Cut off wheels will go through any steel-regardless of hardness. Just lightly so the rpm stays high. I purchased the donner allen wrench from acehardware. I think it was $1.69. To break it loose, I hold the allen with my 12 or 16 inch channel locks. Works great..! Thanks DaveM for taking the measurements of his tool for me last year (?).


    Michael

  57. #56

    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by valvfloat View Post
    could you be more specific....?....you don't mean the pulley do you ?
    Sorry to hear that v.float, & i hope your baby well be cured soon,, i think Dave mean the brackets that holds the (pulley-clutch-

    Alternator-fan)#: "119 150 08 70", it happened to my friend 500E 2 years ago, big crack under the Alternator side, makes the

    fan move and belt goes out, break almost everything in front Engine........

    ZAYED,,

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    thanks much ZAYED for the part #...!

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    This is the fan support, it's what the pulley and fan clutch bolt up to. 119-150-08-70 is the correct part number. It's available via MB dealers as a "rebuilt" part for $84 plus a $60 core charge as p/n 119-150-08-70-88 if you need one.


  60. #59
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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Hi there,

    I took today off to swap out the fan clutch without removing the radiator. Short version: I didn't lose any limbs and the swap was successful. Here are some notes for your entertainment:

    - I got the two of the three top-shroud bolts free, and discovered the third was seized in the shroud. This surprised me so much so that I dropped my ratchet. My little magnet-on-a-stick wasn't strong enough to bring it up, so I put on a powerful rare earth magnet, which simply got stuck to the front torsion bar. Had to lift up the car and remove the bottom sheath to get to both items.
    - With the one bolt seized, I ended up have to cut the shroud slightly to get that bolt out. A little 2-part expoxy closed up the break, but I left the bolt out on reinstallation later
    - Per Dave's suggestion, I cut up my 8mm hex wrench to about 29-30mm depth - was originally going to use a chop saw, but the friend had gone fishing (complete with sign, too), so just used a dremel. It worked.. Several of you here recommended getting a cheap one, however, I was lazy and used my craftsman one - and VERY glad I did. The torque required to break that center bolt was quite gnarly, having use one from horror freight would have made me lose a limb
    - Getting that hex wrench in place only took a few minutes; my friend's gf has small hands which nimbly moved the wrench into place
    - Couldn't figure out how to use the pulley holder I picked up from harbor fright; was afraid to put too much slack on the belt, and noticed my belt has a number of little cracks (grea, yet another thing to fix later, pffft). Instead, tried to wedge various items into the pulley to keep it from turning. Several hours, a hot dog, two root beers, a cherry pepsi, and over 273.37 four-letter words later, I looked at the FSM instructions, which so poignantly illustrated how to position the pulley holder behind the pulley itself, and had that bolt free in about 20 seconds. I used a foot long 1/2 inch ratchet extender on top of the hex wrench to give me torque
    - I built a spinner tool similar to Dave's. The nubby left over from the first hex cutting was 2-part epoxied onto this zinc-based metal strip that was full of holes (so I wouldn't have to drill my own). The tool was pretty much useless, couldn't get the locomotion going properly. Took the tool apart, and just used the nubby part attached to the short strip, spun it quickly and worked well.
    - I finally got to use my precision tools torque wrench for the first time, put the four bolts holding the new fan clutch to the fan at 10Nm, yay!
    - Put it all back together, started the car up, and everything's fine!

    I drove around for a while to get the temperature up higher, full a/c on, stop-n-go in about 80 degree ambiet temps. It wouldn't go. Dangit. 30 minutes later, it was barely at 90C (previously I would've been over the 100C mark). My oil pressure was showing 1 at stop lights, and depending on throttle position, 2-3 otherwise. Temp-wise, this thingy seems to be working. Decided to go home and just brute force it, and here's where I think I may have broken things? I hope not.

    Car in park, with full a/c, I ran the throttle to about 4500 rpm. Watched the temp rise up to about 100C, shut off the engine. Stuck a white sticker onto the fan blade. Started up the car, and I was unable to get any reliable readings AT ALL. The clutch appeared to be working; it would spin faster at higher rpms, then slow down when it passed somewhere around 3500-4000. No roaring though, and we got readings from 100 to 1073 for the fan blade speed. At idle and in park and temps over 100C, my oil pressure was at 0 (haven't changed the oil pressure sending unit yet, next time). What was more disturbing: the car would "shudder" and drop RPMs when I hit about 5k. All this is probably not a good thing to do in park.... so I stopped.

    I will try to get readings again some other day; I really want an "after". I can confirm one thing, however: with the old fan clutch, and the car OFF, the blade would spin just over 1/4 of a turn if I pushed it. With the new blade, it pretty much stops within 1/8 of a turn. So I believe it's working.

    jano
    Last edited by jano; 08-27-2011 at 12:23 AM.

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    Re: Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

    Congrats, Jano! Since the engine temps are reduced, it sounds like a success story to me!!

    BTW - for fan blade readings via optical tach, put the reflective tape down on the center hub of the blade, not on the blade itself - too hard to get readings from the blade. On the hub it works great. On my old/good clutches, you can hear the 'roar' as you slowly increase RPM's, but the fan will disengage by 3500-3800rpm. So if you were revving to 4500, it would be disengaged. Lower revs to ~3k and mine will engage again. There may be a limiter preventing the revs from passing ~5k in Park, my one E420 does this (haven't tried the other one or my 500's). On the next hot day check the optical tach readings again with the reflective tape relocated.


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