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Thread: OWNER - Glen (199)

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    thumbs up!
    did you end up using the high pressure spray to de-gunk? If so, I bet it'll be real easy to determine the source of the leaks.

    Doug
    Not yet and I'm not sure there would be enough access to the undercarriage at a car wash.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Not yet and I'm not sure there would be enough access to the undercarriage at a car wash.
    Use the factory jack (or a portable hydraulic jack) to raise the car at a self-service car wash, at either the left or right front corner. Be careful to NOT go underneath the car unless you also bring jack stands or other safety items. Set the rear parking brake, etc, etc. Remove the splash shield at home so you don't have to do this at the carwash.

    Spray a can or two of engine degreaser on the necessary areas of the undercarriage (oil pan, transmission, etc). Let it soak for a while, then use high-pressure rinse. Take extra care to not get water near the top of the engine where all the electrical items are, i.e. distributors, temp sensors, plug wires, etc. Bring overalls to wear while you're doing this, so you can get back in the car and keep it relatively clean!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Not yet and I'm not sure there would be enough access to the undercarriage at a car wash.
    Glen, those car ramps you have would work great at the car wash.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Wouldn't just driving the car up on ramps on the driveway, with cardboard underneath it and a few cans of brake cleaner, do much the same work with less effort than trying to power-wash the undercarriage with water?

    Brake cleaner has the added benefit of being able to be directed (through the little red tube that attaches to the nozzle) exactly where you want it, and the "high" is incredible! Particularly after the second can.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Wouldn't just driving the car up on ramps on the driveway, with cardboard underneath it and a few cans of brake cleaner, do much the same work with less effort than trying to power-wash the undercarriage with water?

    Brake cleaner has the added benefit of being able to be directed (through the little red tube that attaches to the nozzle) exactly where you want it, and the "high" is incredible! Particularly after the second can.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    LOL...this is actually a good idea. I have a low rise lift which gives plenty of access but I need to source some non-California brake cleaner.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I can vouch for the brake-cleaner stuff. Christian had some, and we managed to clean the entire lower engine protection plate, even though it had accumulated years of oil, dust and other gunk

    Spray - wait - (optional: brush a bit) - rinse & repeat

    Try to explain to people how a looks-as-new-engine actually has nearly 1 million km on the clock, though
    "But if you really must have the Porsche — if you really must have a Porsche sedan — you can buy a 500E and have enough left over for something air-cooled"

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Just get a box of cheap shop rags to wipe and put a mover's blanket under your cardboard so your driveway/garage doesn't get stained. Brake cleaner (even Cal-type) is going to be better than water at cleaning too. I just saturate the rag with cleaner and scrub away; where the grunge is extra thick, spray directly onto the grunch from the can, and scrub grease.

    For my pump rebuild job, I used a cardboard box-lid from a piece of furniture, so that it had little vertical ridges on the four sides so that grease/spray didn't run off the cardboard .. the cardboard lip contained everything. You can spray from up above with the can/nozzle tube and then the grease/grime just flushes down into the cardboard box-top. Some rags in the cardboard box top will help absorb excess brake cleaner too.

    Wear a pair of coveralls.....

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Wouldn't just driving the car up on ramps on the driveway, with cardboard underneath it and a few cans of brake cleaner, do much the same work with less effort than trying to power-wash the undercarriage with water?
    It depends how much grease & grime is present. For a seriously oiled engine/trans, you'll spend hours and go through cases of spray solvent & rags / paper towels, not to mention making an impressive mess. Power washing gets 80-90% off then you can do the rest by hand.

    For minor amounts, hand cleaning is preferable.

    Be careful with brake cleaner and carb cleaner... many will attack paint, and if you're not careful, it will strip paint off the lower engine crossmember, or other areas that you don't want down to bare metal.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Guys,
    i've taken various cars to the DIY car wash with great results. I soak first using the Orange - based degreaser 10 to 30 minutes before I drive to the car wash. I bring my plastic ramps, so I can get up in there underneath. I bring a change of clothes, safety glasses and my coveralls. It is a dirty and wet process, but works really well. A hat isn't a bad accessory, too. Grease, dirt and oil can get everywhere.

    I spray from above and below and just don't aim the nozzle at electrical components. High pressure spray will remove almost all of the motor oil which is caked with dirt.

    I also do degreasing at home on the lift. There, I soak with orange-based degreaser. Warm components clean easier. Cycles are about 30 minutes. I spray liberally, let it soak and then come out and wipe down with rags soaked in hot water.

    I don't use brake cleaner as it strips / removes paint.

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    +1 with all of Doug's comments. I try to keep my at-home degreasing to a minimum (i.e., by hand with rags / paper towels) to limit the mess.

    Also, the greasy spray runoff will be captured & filtered by the carwash, this isn't possible at home.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    Guys,
    i've taken various cars to the DIY car wash with great results. I soak first using the Orange - based degreaser 10 to 30 minutes before I drive to the car wash. I bring my plastic ramps, so I can get up in there underneath. I bring a change of clothes, safety glasses and my coveralls. It is a dirty and wet process, but works really well. A hat isn't a bad accessory, too. Grease, dirt and oil can get everywhere.

    I spray from above and below and just don't aim the nozzle at electrical components. High pressure spray will remove almost all of the motor oil which is caked with dirt.

    I also do degreasing at home on the lift. There, I soak with orange-based degreaser. Warm components clean easier. Cycles are about 30 minutes. I spray liberally, let it soak and then come out and wipe down with rags soaked in hot water.

    I don't use brake cleaner as it strips / removes paint.

    Doug
    +1 with Doug I have done both also and have found the High pressure spray wash to work best.

    No matter what Glen will make it shine !!
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I DO NOT recommend using carb cleaner except for cleaning carbs. Brake cleaner is not as aggressive and safer. I have not (personally) had any problems with the brake cleaner that I use, taking off paint. Of course, I generally use it on bare-metal surfaces, suspension components, etc.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I've been driving the car more and more, just to get a better feel for all the things it needs. When I bought it, it had just under 579200 miles, I forget the exact mileage and now just over 580,200. So, I've but a bit over 1000 miles on it, a far cry from what the PO would have accumulated!

    Anyway, the engine continues to run well and oil leakage is very, very minimal. It does appear that the rear main seal is leaking (a drop to two every week) so that will need to be addressed in the future after more pressing issues are repaired. I'm still troubleshooting the ASR/ABS system and now a check engine light but now that I'm getting consistent codes from the computers I think I'll be able to figure out the issues. First up is that the modules seem to be having trouble communicating with each other, I get communication error codes from all the modules.

    That's all for now.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    And just so no one gets the idea that the paint is nicer than it is, here's a close up of the trunk. The hood and roof are a bit worse.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1369010879.399284.jpg
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I don't mind the paint (I have to b/c I live in a desert country with super heat and too many sand storms), is it just the clear coat or much deeper ?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by 195910 View Post
    I don't mind the paint (I have to b/c I live in a desert country with super heat and too many sand storms), is it just the clear coat or much deeper ?
    Both. I believe the hood, roof and trunk lid were re-cleared at some point in the car's life. All three showed severe "crazing" and were rough in texture when I got the car. I've since buffed the hood and trunk which brought the shine back but the crazing is even more evident now. Both rear fenders and the front left are quite sun bleached with very thin clear remaining. The car now looks presentable from about 20 feet away.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    MAJOR BREAK TRHOUGH THIS EVENING! I'll be more confident by the weekend but I think I finally solved the ABS/ASR problem
    For the moment and for the first time since I bought the car, I have working anti-lock brakes and ASR...and no warning lights on the dash.
    More info this weekend.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    MAJOR BREAK TRHOUGH THIS EVENING! I'll be more confident by the weekend but I think I finally solved the ABS/ASR problem
    For the moment and for the first time since I bought the car, I have working anti-lock brakes and ASR...and no warning lights on the dash.
    More info this weekend.
    WAY TO GO GLEN !!!
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    I think I finally solved the ABS/ASR problem
    Persevere... because on the road to success there is never a crowd on the extra mile! :checker:
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED DETAILS!


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    NEEEEEED DEETS !!! :sad:

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Details of the ASR/ABS resolution here: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/show...ll=1#post44687

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    This past weekend's projects included replacing the driver side seat belt to fix a very slow retracting belt. Thanks to David Hendy for supplying the belt
    Also installed new OE tie-rods and drag link and spent considerable time degreasing. Steering shock, idler arm bushings and new struts are on the list...

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    do the idler arm bushings if you (or we) redo the rear main seal. access will so easy then.

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks Doug. The rms leak is so minor at this point, I don't plan to tackle it for a while. Plenty of other things to fix
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,

    Here's a link to a commentary about your car on a Norwegian internet site:
    http://www.tv2.no/underholdning/broo...t-3656630.html
    The title says "Mercedes-Benz E500: Some cars never wear out"

    This was published late December 2011 when Dr.P still had the car. I am not sure, but the reporter might have picked up the link from a thread I posted on our national Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb forum at December 1st. 2011, since he is a member in that club too. Unfortunately I posted that thread on the Members forum only, so it is not avaliable for non-members. However, I contacted the reporter and he told he was Emailing with Dr.P, so the content in the commentary should be correct - and as far as I can see it is. I think this car has got some attention globally now, that's nice.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by 500AMM View Post
    Here's a link to a commentary about your car on a Norwegian internet site:
    http://www.tv2.no/underholdning/broo...t-3656630.html
    The title says "Mercedes-Benz E500: Some cars never wear out"



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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Long time followers of this car know that the PO, DrP, often talked about how hot the engine gets on warmer days or when ascending long uphill grades. Indeed, it does run a bit hot with the "normal" temp right being around 100C, even when ambient is in the low 70's. On warmer days, it easily gets to 110C and then the auxilliary fans kick in which brings it back down to ~100C. Having been around these cars for a long time, it doesn't freak me out to see these temps but I do recognize that it should run considerably cooler here in SoCal.

    Anyway, as a test I temporarily locked the clutch to the pulley with a large zip tie and took the car for a drive. Its a bit warmer today so I thought it would be a good test
    Sure enough, the gauge never went above 90C for most of the drive, even in slow, stop and go traffic...driving by an elementary school just as the kids were leaving. Just as I was returning home, climbing the hill to my street, the gauge went almost to 100C. I pulled into the garage and checked the zip tie. It was still there but due to the heat had become loose and the fan was no longer locked.

    Moral of the story: bad fan clutch.

    Ordered an ACM from AutohausAZ.com. Will report after it's installed.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    very clever detective work!
    Good find.
    I know you aren't a big fan, but I did the resistor mod to the temp sensor for the fan relay some months ago. Mine kicks on just above 100 and turns off around 92, I think. I've been in 100 degree ambients and not see 105 on the gauge.
    I'm really happy with that modification. Around here, the fans kick on just about when I start to think the engine is starting to creep towards running too hot. But, that is pretty much only sitting still for a few minutes (as you might in gridlock traffic). I look at the modification as offering me more lead time before actually overheating.

    I soldered the resistor in place on the two-post plug. I bought a 5-pack of them at radio shack and one plug housing to replace the one I took apart. Glad to offer one up if you like. Beats $90 cool-harness by a long shot.
    Suspect you'll start with the fan clutch.

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks Doug. Yep, I'll start with the fan clutch and go from there. I do have a new t-stat in inventory too but I'm pretty sure the one that's in there is fine.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Nice detective work, Glen. Remember you need the shorter bolt for the ACM clutch.

    In my experience, the ACM engages at a much lower temp, and remains engaged to a higher RPM, and overall it will cool better than the stock clutch. The downside is a bit more noise and slight power loss but for normal street use, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

    Hadn't Doc Pee replaced the clutch somewhat recently? Or is it old / original? This kind thing makes you wonder how many other cars out there have a similar problem. The myth of "these cars just run hot, that's normal" doesn't help.



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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Yep, ordered a new bolt too

    The clutch looks original to me so I don't think he had it replaced. I suppose I could go through his records but at this point, it doesn't matter.

    (and thanks for fixing F to C)

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    The old Sachs clutch will have a date code on the bimetal spring, so's you should be able to get a good idea of if it was original or not. With 500kmi, I'd think it may have already been replaced once before, but you never know. I'm very curious what the temps will be with the ACM in there.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The myth of "these cars just run hot, that's normal" doesn't help.
    Is that myth related to the myth that the engines don't like heat and don't put out as much HP when hot/heat soak conditions exist?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    It depends on your definition of "hot". The factory manuals clearly state that with coolant temps above ~100C the injection & timing is modified to reduce power. Between approx 60-90C there is very, very little difference in power output. Yank away, pal.

    I personally had a dealer tell me in 1997 that if my W124 (1987 300D) wasn't in the red zone (120C), it was fine. At the time, the engine was running at 110-115C in ~100F ambients. Basically, they were saying nothing was wrong. I thought they were full of feces and after much part swapping, it turned out the 4-year-old (!) radiator was bad. Installed a new radiator, and afterward the engine temps refused to go above 95C under any conditions. Which goes back to the myth. 110-115C on the gauge is NOT normal with ambients under 100F. Yes, the M119 in the W124 does run warmer than some other engine/chassis combos, but 100-105C is the top of the 'normal' range when everything is working as it should, and excluding Death Valley / Dubai weather conditions.

    Glen's experience where he was seeing 100-110C with the bad clutch is priceless. Many shops / dealers / interweb mechanics would say that's "normal". Yet a simple Zip-tie proved that with adequate airflow, the temp suddenly moved to a steady 90C.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    successful. Mission accomplished.


    Let's see what Glen's temps are with the new fan clutch installed. At 95-100F ambients here in Houston, for me running 105C (ranges from 95-105C depending on load/speed) temps on the freeway at speed (80 MPH) or UP TO 110C sitting in traffic or at a traffic light for a few minutes is normal.

    BTW my new Nissens radiator didn't change my temps one whit. Not one degree. Also ... all temps I report above, are with AC on HIGH.

    Under high load/speed, my M117s will also just crack 100C. 105C would be TOP I've ever seen in either M117, but they will run anywhere from 90-100C in 95-100F ambients with the A/C on. They are a bit cooler than the 119, but not too much. There's more room for air to circulate in the engine compartment, and the higher hood/larger frontal area/grille of the SEL makes for about 5 degrees cooler running than the SEC. That said, it was 94F on the way home today and my SEC maintained 90-95 the whole way.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    How much coolant do you guys see drop in hot weather?
    Last edited by szvook; 08-20-2013 at 01:05 AM.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by szvook View Post
    How much coolant do you guys see drop in not weather?
    In not weather? Generally "not-ta" coolant loss.

    When it gets hot outside, I might see around a half-quart evaporate every couple of months.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Oops, my bad. Updating post.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, after you get the new clutch installed, you may need to fly to Houston and replace Gerry's clutch next.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Glen, after you get the new clutch installed, you may need to fly to Houston and replace Gerry's clutch next.

    Probably better if I drive out there...the trip would really speed up my journey to 1M KM

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Probably better if I drive out there...the trip would really speed up my journey to 1M KM
    Excellent idea!


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Probably better if I drive out there...the trip would really speed up my journey to 1M KM
    Glen when you go let me know, we can check Gerry's fuses at the same time.
    .
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    OWNER - Glen (199)

    Y'all who visit will get a very healthy dose of Southern Hospitality + some of the best BBQ you will ever eat. Just give me a little notice as to when you're planning to come. I'd recommend October through April to beat the heat.

    Just take note that when you enter the Republic of Texas on I-10 at El Paso ... You've still got another 10-12 hours of driving (mostly at the legal 80 MPH) until you arrive in Houston.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    'd recommend October through April to beat the heat.
    Translation: January 1-31 would be the ideal time.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Translation: January 1-31 would be the ideal time.

    Yes, January is an excellent month. 35F at night, 70F during the day. 40-degree temp swings are the norm at that time of year.

    Don't mind GSXR ... he is just jealous of the 80 MPH legal speeds (and 85 MPH private toll road) and numerous "Texas Mile" high-speed events we have all over here in TX


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Under high load/speed, my M117s will also just crack 100C. 105C would be TOP I've ever seen in either M117, but they will run anywhere from 90-100C in 95-100F ambients with the A/C on. They are a bit cooler than the 119, but not too much. There's more room for air to circulate in the engine compartment, and the higher hood/larger frontal area/grille of the SEL makes for about 5 degrees cooler running than the SEC. That said, it was 94F on the way home today and my SEC maintained 90-95 the whole way.
    This is pretty normal for low-speed operation with my M117 ..... At 80MPH and high speeds it will be at 95-100C with the A/C blasting.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I installed the ACM fan clutch this morning and drove the car around this afternoon. I went up several hills/grades that previously would cause the engine temp to climb to 110C easily, even in relatively cool 75F SoCal weather. This was at low speed, 35 to 55 MPH so there wasn't a lot of air flow through the radiator. So, the verdict is...

    The new ACM clutch is definitely working correctly, the roar of the fan is easily heard and engine temps going up said grades, never went over 100C. My other car runs a bit cooler in similar conditions so there is still room for improvement. I suspect the radiator may have some scale so I may try a citric acid flush at some point, we'll see how it goes.

    Here's a couple pictures of the ACM vs. OE clutch:





    And here's a picture of the tool I made (it's a copy of one Benzer posted (https://www.500eboard.com/forums/show...ull=1#post9931), about $8 in steel from Home Depot and 30 minutes to build...if you have a welder) to hold the pulley:
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    is the ACM clutch non OEM (aftermarket)? Sounds like you'd recommend its use?

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    ACM is aftermarket and has had good reviews from GSXR and others.
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Yep, ordered a new bolt too

    The clutch looks original to me so I don't think he had it replaced. I suppose I could go through his records but at this point, it doesn't matter.

    (and thanks for fixing F to C)
    affirmative..I never replaced the clutch. Glen's explanation makes a lot of sense to me ! Thanks for fixing this ! What's the current mileage(

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Y'all who visit will get a very healthy dose of Southern Hospitality + some of the best BBQ you will ever eat. Just give me a little notice as to when you're planning to come. I'd recommend October through April to beat the heat.

    Just take note that when you enter the Republic of Texas on I-10 at El Paso ... You've still got another 10-12 hours of driving (mostly at the legal 80 MPH) until you arrive in Houston.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    ...( the car knows I10 through West Texas very well...I have driven that three times (to see HP, my customer back then, in West Houston) from the high desert in CA. 1400miles, 20h straight....those were the times....and I did not really go 80mph after Van Horne...more 100.......
    The first time was 480k-483k I remember, the second 515k-518k. The third time was 535k-540k (small detour via I25/I70 through Denver to see the Rocky Mtn Nat. Park). It requires some confidence to go those distances at those mileages but she did not let me down........
    Last edited by DrP; 09-09-2013 at 12:01 AM.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by 500AMM View Post
    Glen,

    Here's a link to a commentary about your car on a Norwegian internet site:
    http://www.tv2.no/underholdning/broo...t-3656630.html
    The title says "Mercedes-Benz E500: Some cars never wear out"

    This was published late December 2011 when Dr.P still had the car. I am not sure, but the reporter might have picked up the link from a thread I posted on our national Mercedes-Benz Entusiastklubb forum at December 1st. 2011, since he is a member in that club too. Unfortunately I posted that thread on the Members forum only, so it is not avaliable for non-members. However, I contacted the reporter and he told he was Emailing with Dr.P, so the content in the commentary should be correct - and as far as I can see it is. I think this car has got some attention globally now, that's nice.


    Cheers
    -arnt-
    yep, I had all forgotten about that, the Norwegian reporter had contacted me after he browsed this site.....

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DrP View Post
    (to see HP, my customer back then, in West Houston)
    That's where I work, yup.

    I've driven Portland to Houston twice down I-5 and then I-10. And once from San Francisco to Houston by way of Las Vegas, Albuquerque and Dallas. That trip I got to see the Grand Canyon, that was sweet !

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DrP View Post
    affirmative..I never replaced the clutch. Glen's explanation makes a lot of sense to me ! Thanks for fixing this ! What's the current mileage(
    Current mileage is about ~581500...I've only been able to drive about 2300 miles.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Great couple of threads. And I thought 123,000 miles was a lot.
    Last edited by Maui; 11-02-2013 at 11:01 PM.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    Great couple of threads. And I thought 123,000 miles was a lot.
    With older Mercedes, especially the M119 engine, the break-in milage is arround 100K.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by szvook View Post
    With older Mercedes, especially the M119 engine, the break-in milage is arround 100K.
    Too bad the same can't be said of the transmission.


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