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Thread: OWNER - Glen (199)

  1. #121
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    Too bad the same can't be said of the transmission.
    It's not that bad, but "can" require more work earlier on.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Amazingly, my high miler is on its original transmission! Reverse is a little slow to engage but other than that it shifts fairly well.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    The Transmission does really well in Europe and averaging near 400TKM! seen some cases of losing reverse at near 250TKM, but mostly good reputation.
    I think it is related to two factors:

    1 - US cars have a softer setting for the modulation valve to get softer shifting (not good for the transmission itself)
    2 - shifting behaviour of the driver; especially P-R-N-D ,(e.g. some drivers don't wait for the car to stop moving before shifting D-R, some don't wait for the gear to engage before putting load..MB P-R-N-D shifts are relatively slow)

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Awesome work, Glen. Removing the timing cover to properly re-seal it is a major, major job. If the only problem is a slight oil leak between the timing cover and block junction, you could apply a wide bead of silicone RTV externally over the seam, from top to bottom (or as much as you can access). This would be a bit of a chore but it would be ~10x easier than pulling the timing cover. Maybe 100x easier. And for a minor leak, it just might do the trick. Something to keep in mind if you want to mess with it in the future.

    Doing the timing cover was the most PITA Job i've ever done in my car hobby mechanic life... and that even while the engine was outside of the car. Crazy.
    That oilpump chain drove us nuts... Really try to avoid that work at all costs. Use RTV [externally] like gsxr mentioned. It did work on my M104 C36 AMG to seal it from Outside. But not all RTVs are suited for such a application.
    We used Elrings Dirko HT, which is specified by Elring to be used for "outside sealing" of parts.
    Christian K.
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    06/2003 CL55 AMG KOMPRESSOR - DB197 Obsidianschwarz-Metallic


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thankfully, the leak is pretty much a non-issue for now. After tightening three loose bolts on the front over, replacing the valve cover gaskets, lower oil pan gasket and oil level sender gasket, the engine doesn't leak anymore.
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

  6. #126

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, did get rid of any from coming back after replacing the brittle smog pump hoses.
    GSXR, do you think M104 engines, including the C36 version, are candidates for going 500K miles if properly maintained? I have a recently acquired c36 with 110k miles-runs great. My nephew just acquired a 1996 C36 with 232K miles and it runs great. My concern is that the M104 and the M103 motors have a history of blowing head gaskets. My understanding is that there is one channel that oil runs thru that dead ends at the gasket. I heard the correct fix is to thread and plug the hole, hindering the oil getting to the gasket, thus preventing a premature head gasket blow out. Myth or truth?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Steve, I have no idea what you are asking.

    Re: M104. They can last a long time but plan on a head gasket every 150k miles or so. My '95 wagon needed a new head gasket at 125k and then again at 292k, at which point I had the head rebuilt. The bottom ends seem bullet proof.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Steve, I have no idea what you are asking.

    Re: M104. They can last a long time but plan on a head gasket every 150k miles or so. My '95 wagon needed a new head gasket at 125k and then again at 292k, at which point I had the head rebuilt. The bottom ends seem bullet proof.
    Yes this is correct and matches my experience in germany with the M104 engines. Every 200.000 some kilometers they have to be replaced.
    I really wonder why? People told me its because of the aluminum head with the cast iron block and the different expansion rates during warm-up and cool-down phases.
    Christian K.
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    09/1989 300E - DB172 Anthrazitgrau-Metallic
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  9. #129
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Never had a M104 with +200TKM, so not sure what exactly happens to the Head Gasket... more details? Coolant/Oil mixing ?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, your experience is roughly equivalent to mine. Though through my observations owning two M104 1995 wagons now, I think the head gasket situation happens more at the ~125K mark (YMMV). My wife's 1995 wagon had the head gasket replaced around 125K miles. I had the front cover re-sealed just after moving to Texas here, around 145K. The car now has 201,000 miles on it.

    From what I can see on my wife's car, after extensive observation, the head gasket has two small external leaks (which are not getting any smaller), a leak at the oil level sender (probably the biggest leak actually), and the front timing cover leak has returned again. It is leaking 2-3 drops of oil per day collectively from all of these sources.

    I cannot stand cars that leak oil, so I am going to do a top-end refurbishment job starting over the Thanksgiving holiday and working during the latter half of December (I am taking Dec. 15 through Jan 1 off of work for the Christmas holiday season), as well as removing the front seats and doing a full "Mr. Clean" detail and steam clean of the interior in my garage. The body of the vehicle will be completely rubbed out and polished during this period. All four wheels will be sent into the wheel shop for cleaning, refurbishment and clear-coating. A few external trim items will be replaced, including the mirror boots and a trim piece on the rear tailgate, which has a small piece chipped off the corner under the passenger-side taillight. I have the trim piece in my parts stock already. Earlier this year I replaced the passenger side taillight with a new unit, remedying a crack from some @(*&(&*# who obviously hit it in a parking lot.

    As with my M117 top-end rebuild several years ago, all soft parts under the hood of the car (vacuum lines, rubber hoses, connectors, etc.) will be replaced as part of this M104 top-end rebuild. The third (remaining original) coil pack will be replaced. I will take the cylinder head to Scroggins Machine Shop in downtown Houston to be checked to ensure it is flat (and be skimmed, if necessary). If valve work is needed, it will be done at this time as well (likely at a minimum the valve stem seals will be replaced). The ETA will be rebuilt -- I have a spare unit so I will send this into Beckmann or BBA Reman for refurbishment before commencement of the project. The lower oilpan will be removed and resealed as Glen did, and the oil level sender will be re-sealed. I will also likely do the lower harness at this time, as the bio-degradable wiring has significantly worn (observed first-hand during the recent alternator replacement). I will document this project here on this site as I did with my M117 rebuild.


    Quote Originally Posted by 195910 View Post
    Never had a M104 with +200TKM, so not sure what exactly happens to the Head Gasket... more details? Coolant/Oil mixing ?
    With regard to the head gasket situation typically it is one of two things -- either oil in the coolant, or external oil leaks often toward the rear of the engine. I would say overall, the external oil leaks are probably the more common problem (thankfully) though both do happen. It's pretty well documented with the head gasket design that there are a couple of places where it's a bit weak. MB has updated/upgraded the head gasket with a reinforced design several times over the years, but it still continues to have problems.

    When you have oil in the coolant (as I had many years ago on our first 1992 W124/M103 wagon) it's a condition I call a "chocolate milkshake" in the expansion tank, and it's a real mess. This is where the head gasket gives way between an oil and coolant passage (which are physically very close together) and they "bleed" together, resulting in said chocolate milkshake. It's a mess (whether on an M103 or M104) because you have to clean out the entire coolant circuit, including the evaporator and HVAC components. This adds a lot of time and heartburn to the process.

    IMHO the most egregious problem on the M104 is the front timing cover leak, which happens in a location I personally call the "Bermuda Triangle," which is located where the block, cylinder head and timing cover meet. It's a small space where oil [eventually] gets around the end of the seal. And the seal is very difficult to install correctly so that the timing cover slides over it during installation so it doesn't move the seal out of position. There are several techniques to doing this and they are documented on the PeachParts and Benzworld forums.

    As Glen and Christian both say, it's not a fun job. When I moved to Houston in 2008 I think I paid an experienced mechanic about $750 to do this job as we were living in temporary housing while looking for a house to live in, so I didn't have a good shop to do this work, and my tools were all packed in boxes and in storage. I'm in a much better position these days to do this work.

    The good thing is that the timing chain on the M104s is pretty short and doesn't have the issues that it does at higher mileages on the M117 and M119 motors, where the chain is significantly more susceptible to stretch.

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
    Gerry

  11. #131
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Good detailed description, Thanks GVZ

  12. #132

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,

    When you replaced the smog pump hoses, did you get rid of any codes?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester 500E View Post
    Glen,

    When you replaced the smog pump hoses, did you get rid of any codes?
    When I first got the car it had a multitude of codes from all of the modules. I worked through all the issues and eventually got the car to to be mostly code-free with all systems working properly. The only code that comes up now is DM #5 which is EGR related. I haven't spent much time troubleshooting it yet but I suspect either a bad EGR valve, faulty switch-over valve, or possibly a clogged secondary air tube.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,

    for reference when I cleaned out the blocked EGR tube in my wife's [M104] E320 wagon, here's how/where I did it. Went in through the top (ETA, past the opened butterfly valve) with a hooked tool/wire at a right angle into the EGR port (where it bolts to the intake). I reamed it out real good and haven't had a code #5 return since. Was easier than reaming out the tube from the other end with a speedo cable and drill.

    See attached photo with the red arrow that gives you the general gist of the operation. I'm going to order a new tube later this month for when I do my wife's car's top end and pull the head.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,
    What does the odometer read now?
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trae View Post
    Glen,
    What does the odometer read now?
    Trae,
    Not much more than before. As of 10/27, it read 582,056 so I've put on just under 3000 miles since late January. I really need to find some time to install some new suspension bits...

    Glen

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    I really need to find some time to drive it
    FTFY

  18. #138

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, more than likely the secondary tube. Hook your vacuum pump gun to the top of the Egr valve, start the car, pump the vacuum to 5 pounds. If the engine does not stumble, then it is likely the Egr valve or the secondary air tube.I took off my Egr valve and knocked the carbon off. If was in good nick. I then ran a thin flexible wire to see how far it would go.it"s approximately 13.5 inches to the bottom of the intake manifold. Mine only went to about 12 inches. I roto rootered, not as bad as I felt about the procedure while I was doing it. I got the catheter and wire if you want to borrow it. No more code 5.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks Steve. My tests so far indicate a bad EGR valve but it could still be the secondary air tube. It just isn't a high priority for me at this point.
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  20. #140

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    BTW, had the new cats installed and now I am riding with new accumulators. Next is replacing the engine mounts, which is the culprit of that vibration you noticed when you drove my car. And I can't live too much longer with that old harness.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Time to create an owner thread for yourself, Steve...

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Maybe Stevester will keep the car now!


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    This morning I installed a near new set of OE E500 struts. The old ones were non-E500 specific Sachs touring struts. I'm not sure of the mileage on them and they weren't blown but the car exhibited an odd pitch/yaw going over bumps. The fresh E500 specific struts seems to have cured that

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Nice work Glen, wheres the step by step photo doc ?
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    This morning I installed a near new set of OE E500 struts. The old ones were non-E500 specific Sachs touring struts. I'm not sure of the mileage on them and they weren't blown but the car exhibited an odd pitch/yaw going over bumps. The fresh E500 specific struts seems to have cured that
    Hi Glen

    great to hear that! I have no idea about the Sachs struts, I never changed them. Yes I remember the noise over bumps.....

    You have now nearly a new car! Thanks for all that work !


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Maybe Doc will buy it back and rack up another 500k!!


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I installed a new lower engine wire harness this morning. The old harness was pretty bad but there were no symptoms. I hate this job!
    I've done it before on my 744 car but it was still a huge pain in the ass. It's not a complicated job but there isn't a lot of room and the worst part is all the dirt and debris that falls down while you snake the old harness out. Goggles are a necessity. I also laid out some plastic sheeting below the car to make it easier to clean up afterwards.

    Anyway, the car is running well and things are coming along nicely.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Nice job Glen
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    How is the suspension now? Did you lower like you did on Karl's? Those toe links installed on his car on are the schnizzle... I'll put those on mine if there is evidence of bushing failure on my rod ends.

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Hi Doug, the suspension is great. I finally installed the new rear subframe bushings, new toe-links, upper thrust arms, and good used camber arms. The lower thrust/pull arms seem to be ok for the time being. I also had some aftermarket front LCA's in the parts bin so I put those in as well. Car is at stock height for now. So essentially, the suspension is all very fresh now and the car feels great, although I still need to align it. I've been busy with other projects around the house so I haven't installed the replacement half-shafts yet but hopefully soon.

    If/when I lower it, I'll put in those adjustable camber arms like we installed in Karl's car...

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I finally installed a new passenger side rear wheel bearing and good used half shaft. The bearing has been making noise since I got the car and the CV boots appear to have been torn for a while...with the joints quite loose. Thanks to Captruff for sourcing the half shaft for me.

    All in all, the job went smoothly, the biggest pita was the parking brake! Thanks to DW SD for letting me use his snap ring pliers on the bearing retainer.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    BTW, the driver side seems fine. Oh, interestingly the passenger bearing has been replaced before. I could tell because there was a small nick in the hub where someone cut the outer bearing race off.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    I finally installed a new passenger side rear wheel bearing and good used half shaft. The bearing has been making noise since I got the car and the CV boots appear to have been torn for a while...with the joints quite loose. Thanks to Captruff for sourcing the half shaft for me.

    All in all, the job went smoothly, the biggest pita was the parking brake! Thanks to DW SD for letting me use his snap ring pliers on the bearing retainer.
    Glen thanks for keeping all of us updated on your projects !
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    More interested in a mileage report..

    Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by eiriksmil View Post
    More interested in a mileage report..

    Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk
    582887...haven't driven it much since December.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Good stuff,Glen!

    Did you use the SKF kit or the MB kit for the wheel bearings?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by 036/199 View Post
    Good stuff,Glen!

    Did you use the SKF kit or the MB kit for the wheel bearings?
    I used the FAG kit from Autohausaz.com. Bearing was made in Slovenia...

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    How are we going to get both of your cars to the meet up in April?
    Will Monique pilot one of them?

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    How are we going to get both of your cars to the meet up in April?
    Will Monique pilot one of them?

    Doug
    Maybe...but worse case, I'll only take one.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Or I could take the Coaster down and help drive

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Or I could take the Coaster down and help drive
    Gerry what airport are you flying into ?
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I installed new front wheel bearings this morning, went with the SKF bearing kit from AutohausAZ.com. The old bearings were Timken, I wonder if they were original? In any event, the front end is finally quiet but now I can hear more driveshaft bearing noise...that will wait until after next week's GTG.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlC View Post
    Gerry what airport are you flying into ?
    SNA (John Wayne)

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, I think you are correct. It's probably residual or a power steering leak.
    A car of this age and use, I would think the power steering could be the culprit.
    Have you replaced the motor's rear seal yet?

    How is the transmission functioning?
    Did you ever find the cause of the code 5, did you clean the secondary air tube?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Power steering seems fine to me. Rear main seal is on the list to do when I rebuild the trans. But, there is no rush as the trans is holding up fine and the car can go months without dripping any oil. Haven't looked at the code 5 issue yet.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    It's a 580k mile car with the original engine and trans.. Surely it should be allowed to drip a little

  47. #167

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,
    Do you know who will be rebuilding your transmission when you get to that point?
    In town or out of town?

  48. #168
    Senior Member DW SD's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I recently had a good experience with Valley transmission in El Cajon. I know they work on all makes.
    The owner Greg has run the shop for 38 years. Great guy.
    I think Glen knows a great LA or OC county MB only trans shop.
    Doug

  49. #169
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Steve,
    I don't know for sure yet. I have used Transmeister in OC with good results in the past but I'm also curious to see how Gerry's turns out from Sun Valley.
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

  50. #170
    E500E Guru TerryA's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    ➕1 for Ted Reich @ Transmeister.

    A tidbit of info; Did you all know that he is Tom Hanson's brother-in-law.
    Terry

  51. #171
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryA View Post
    ➕1 for Ted Reich @ Transmeister.

    A tidbit of info; Did you all know that he is Tom Hanson's brother-in-law.
    Hi Terry...yep, I did know that

  52. #172

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    >>I'm also curious to see how Gerry's turns out from Sun Valley.
    Me too.

  53. #173
    Junior Member MBZ 500E's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Very cool to see you bringing her back to full glory Glen!

    I've always thought it would be cool to have two of the exact same car, one driver and one garage queen. I would strip the partially worn parts from the garage queen and put it on the driver and then get new parts for the garage queen. Double the labor but you end up with one perfect car and spend less on the DD.

    Keep us posted with your progress
    Last edited by MBZ 500E; 05-15-2014 at 08:20 PM.
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    Past: 1992 Pearl Black/ Black 500E

  54. #174
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester 500E View Post
    >>I'm also curious to see how Gerry's turns out from Sun Valley.
    Me too.
    Well, I've got about 800 miles on it and it's working just fine. Had to do a little modulator and Bowden cable adjustment after it was installed to get 'er dialed in, but that was easy enough. It was a nicely done rebuild and I heartily recommend Sun Valley. For you SoCal guys, they're relatively local for you and worth going to visit. You'll sure learn a HECK of a lot about transmissions, that's for sure.

  55. #175
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks Af. I have been doing exactly as you describe...moving good parts from the 744 car to the 199 and then putting new parts on 744. Obviously, plenty of new parts went directly on the high miler too, LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by MBZ 500E View Post
    Very cool to see you bringing her back to full glory Glen!

    I've always thought it would be cool to have two of the exact same car, one driver and one garage queen. I would strip the partially worn parts from the garage queen and put it on the driver and then get new parts for the garage queen. Double the labor but you end up with one perfect car and spend less on the DD.

    Keep us posted with your progress

  56. #176
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    16 month update:
    Current mileage is 584,200 so...I've driven about 5K miles, a far cry from what DrP was driving but the car continues to run well. I continue to fix and repair items so the list is getting shorter but there is still a way to go. With biennial emissions testing coming up in August, I decided it was time to fix the DM code 5 error so I devoted some time to troubleshooting the issue. It turns out the secondary air or EGR tube that feeds into the intake manifold was clogged up with carbon deposits. This is a rather common issue on M104's but not so much on M119's...probably because there aren't as many with high miles. I removed the EGR valve and was unable to blow compressed air through it so I pulled the MAFS and ETA so I could see the end of the EGR tube. I used a flexible, spiral tube and roto-rootered the tube from the EGR valve side. Feeding by hand first, once I got to the clog, I attached my drill motor to it and slowly fed it in. Once it broke through and I could see the end in the intake manifold I sprayed some brake cleaner into the tube and continued roto-rootering. Quite a bit of black carbon came out the end and I was able to collect it all with a rag. I finished by blowing compressed air through the tube to dry it out. It's only been a few days since I put all back together but so far no CEL or code 5! Before this, I would get the CEL every 3rd or 4th engine start.



    This morning I decided to change out the t-stat to see if I could lower running temps a bit. It has never overheated since I've owned it but it's always run warm. When I first got it, going up long grades or in stop and go traffic, it would climb to 110 to 115 degrees, even in cool weather. Earlier, you may remember I changed the fan clutch and that helped quite a bit. In the same grades or traffic I would see 100 to 105 max. What I found today explains the reason for the high temps. DrP had the t-stat changed several years ago and the mechanic installed the wrong t-stat! They put in a regular M104 unit which doesn't allow full coolant flow, d'oh! I installed a new Wahler 'stat and went for a drive. Now, it was only 70 degrees here today but I drove up the same hills as before and the running temp was much lower, never climbing over about 97C, woohoo!



    I'm a happy camper
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

  57. #177
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    That is a very cool car with a great story. It was a pleasure to hear the story straight from DrP's lips at the GTG.

    1992 500E
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  58. #178
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Congrats on tackling a few gremlins Glen! Glad to hear that an m119 can be roto-rootered just like an m104.
    "Digestion kills r/t's!" -- 400Eric
    Click Here to view my mod thread

    Best E.T. w/ N2O: 12.794 @ 110.82 - N/A: 13.805 @ 102.94



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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Justin:
    Once the ETA is out of the way, it's quite easy to roto-rooter via the EGR valve port. Total distance is about a foot.

    Here's a shot of the EGR port, you go in through the lower hole in the picture:




    And here's the end of the tube below the ETA:


    List of items I've replaced since I got the car:
    - Battery
    - Replaced all dash lights
    - Strut mounts, Meyle HD
    - Hydrostruts
    - Rear wheel carrier bushings
    - Valve cover gaskets
    - Oil pan gasket
    - Oil level sender o-rings
    - Cabin air filters
    - Right rear window regulator
    - Upgraded all fuses to brass
    - Repaired wiring for washer reservoir sensor
    - Vacuum element for fuel filler door
    - Better condition used headlight lenses
    - Better condition tail light lenses
    - Osram Silverstar H4 bulbs
    - OE tie-rods and center link
    - Repaired ASR/ABS
    - Driver seatbelt and retractor
    - Spark plugs
    - ACM fan clutch
    - Balo front rotors
    - Radiator petcock
    - OE front struts, bump stops, sensor wire holder
    - Front sway bar bushings, inner and outer
    - Front LCA's (used aftermarket)
    - Rear subframe bushings, toe-links, upper thrust arms
    - Lower engine harness
    - New headlight wiper blades
    - New style oil filter cap
    - Steering damper
    - Passenger side half shaft and wheel bearing
    - Front wheel bearings
    - Throttle cable
    - Cleaned EGR tube
    - Thermostat

  60. #180
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I had mine apart when I replaced my head gasket. I just sandblasted through the tube to take care of the gunk, so I didn't need to try the roto-rooting method. I realize taking apart the intake manifold is a lot of work for most folks. It's nice to know there's an alternative.
    "Digestion kills r/t's!" -- 400Eric
    Click Here to view my mod thread

    Best E.T. w/ N2O: 12.794 @ 110.82 - N/A: 13.805 @ 102.94



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