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Thread: OWNER - Glen (199)

  1. #181
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I thought about pulling the manifold but figured I'd try roto-rootering first. I sort of wonder if it might be a good idea to pour Seafoam into the EGR port every so often as preventative maintenance. Thoughts?
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I used a flexible, spiral tube and roto-rootered the tube from the EGR valve side.
    Thanks for the write-up, Glen, and glad you got rid of the dtc 5. Can you tell me what kind of roto-rooter you used and where I can buy one?
    Jon D.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Nice work Glen
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

    Past Cars - 1994 E500 - 2003 CL600 V12TT by SPEEDRIVEN - 1994 E500 - 1995 E320 Cab - 1988 BMW M6 - 1994 E320 Cab

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by emerydc8 View Post
    Thanks for the write-up, Glen, and glad you got rid of the dtc 5. Can you tell me what kind of roto-rooter you used and where I can buy one?
    Jon:
    I used an old magnetic picker upper I had laying around. I got the idea from Stevester 500e...
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Cool. I actually have one of those laying around. Thanks again, Glen. You too, Stevester.
    Jon D.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    You can get a mechanical speedo cable at any auto parts store (typically for older US cars) that is quite long and will work well. These cables are quite cheap. I bought one several years ago to do my M104 but ended up unblocking the M104 tube by going down THROUGH the ETA (which I propped open) with a hooked piece of metal with about a 1-inch hook at a 90-degree angle. I succeeded in unblocking the tube enough on that car to prevent the codes, but when I redid the top end last year, you can see from my photos in that thread that it was still about 80% blocked and how much carbon I reamed out of the end of the tube.

    Im not sure if the "down through the open ETA butterfly valve" method would work on the 119 ... Perhaps not. I also considered replacing the M104 tube until I checked the price ... I was aghast at the price even thru parts.com!!

    good work Glen!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Clogging EGR tubes don't seem to be as problematic on the M119 as compared to the M104. When I had my ETA off, I could definitely see the carbon buildup in the intake under that pipe but it didn't seem bad enough that it would clog the EGR tube to the point of needing a rotor-rooter. Too bad there's not a way to check without removing the ETA.
    Jon D.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Its easy enough to check. First step is to pull a vacuum on the egr valve with the engine at idle. If the idle changes/lowers/engine stumbles then the tube is not clogged.

    If there is no change in engine idle, I would remove the egr valve and see if you can blow through the tube with compressed air. If not, the tube is clogged.

    Its certainly possible to roto-rooter the tube without pulling the ETA but you will end up with all that crap inside the manifold...waiting to be ingested by the engine when you start it. In reality, it may not hurt the engine as its mostly soft and gooey, at least in my case, but it's really not that hard to pull the ETA.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks, Glen. I'll try that on both cars. I'm pretty sure it's okay, but I suppose it's like heart disease--you don't know how badly you are clogged until they get in there with an angiogram (or in this case a roto-rooter).
    Jon D.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Almost done replacing this bearing. Just cleaning up the surrounding areas. You may need to turn up your volume to get the full effect


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Which bearing is this Glen? That sure does sound nasty.
    "Digestion kills r/t's!" -- 400Eric
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Sauce View Post
    Which bearing is this Glen? That sure does sound nasty.
    Drive shaft center support bearing.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I soooo expected a loud scream at the end...
    "But if you really must have the Porsche — if you really must have a Porsche sedan — you can buy a 500E and have enough left over for something air-cooled"

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jelmer View Post
    I soooo expected a loud scream at the end...
    LOL!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Wow after looks good, what was before like ?
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

    Past Cars - 1994 E500 - 2003 CL600 V12TT by SPEEDRIVEN - 1994 E500 - 1995 E320 Cab - 1988 BMW M6 - 1994 E320 Cab

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlC View Post
    Wow after looks good, what was before like ?
    Thanks Karl. Imagine a car that was leaking considerable oil for some time that also covered 50,000+ miles per year. It was pretty grimy!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I'm experiencing deja vous. Looks all too familiar to me!
    ...the cleaning. Nothing better than a clean machine . Such a dream.
    " Destination ???, It's the ride that takes you there! "
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I also just did the same cleaning on my 500 two years ago when my center support went. Then again on my wagon this week when I dropped the exhaust to get the transmission out. The pressure washer and a Brillo pad made very quick work of those heat shields this time around.
    "Digestion kills r/t's!" -- 400Eric
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Minor update:
    It was time for California's biennial emission test so off I went to Encinitas Smog. I've been going to this station almost exclusively for over ten years with all my cars. Even with 584606 miles on the original engine and exhaust system, including the original catalytic converters the high miler passed easily!

    I am amazed and pleased at how good the numbers are

    Just fyi, I've been keeping track of oil usage and over many months, I've determined that the engine consumes a quart of oil every 1000 miles. Personally, I think this is acceptable given the mileage and nothing to worry about at this time.

    Since the last update, I installed a set of metal oil tubes due to ticking that started a day before I began the drive shaft center support job. One tube on the driver side had popped.

    Anyway, the car and engine continue to run well. The trans is a little noisy but still shifts well. When it eventually dies, I will more than likely be calling Sun Valley.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Even with 584606 miles on the original engine and exhaust system, including the original catalytic converters the high miler passed easily!

    I am amazed and pleased at how good the numbers are

    Amazing!
    Greg
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Runs clean as a whistle. Are they still original cats?

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    How much does the silver low-miler consume in terms of oil?
    I don't think mine consumes much, but I don't track it real close. Been too focused on the old truck

    Doug

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    How much does the silver low-miler consume in terms of oil?
    I don't think mine consumes much, but I don't track it real close. Been too focused on the old truck

    Doug
    With 122K miles, the silver car doesn't eat any oil that I notice in the 5000 mile OCI I follow.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    Runs clean as a whistle. Are they still original cats?

    Doug
    Yep!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Wow that's pretty amazing, thx for updating us all !!!
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I agree, given the mileage, 1000 miles per quart is acceptable, although not ideal.

    I'd try new valve stem seals when you have time, but that will take quite a bit of labor with 32 valve springs to remove!!


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Indeed, it's nice to hear about your high miler. Thanks, and a toast to many more miles under your care.

    drew
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Nice to hear! It you do decide to change your valve stem seals, I've got a valve spring depressor from snap on that I used on my 500E when I had the heads off last summer. You're more than welcome to borrow it.
    "Digestion kills r/t's!" -- 400Eric
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Valve stem seals makes sense but I wonder with the high miles if it makes more sense to just rebuild the heads completely or simply drop in a used lower mileage engine.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I'd do the heads. I smell a 119 Top-End HOW-TO in the works.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    re: the how to...don't hold your breath waiting. As long as it continues to run well and pass smog, I won't be touching it!

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Any noticeable performance difference (from an engine perspective) between this car and your silver car?
    Greg
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by 8899 View Post
    Any noticeable performance difference (from an engine perspective) between this car and your silver car?
    It's hard to say. What is most noticeable to me is that the silver car feels younger. Everything about it just feels newer and less used, which I suppose, is not surprising. Acceleration feels very similar between the two cars but I have never raced them against each other. My gut tells me the silver car is quicker/faster but like I said, it's hard to say how much.
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Valve stem seals makes sense but I wonder with the high miles if it makes more sense to just rebuild the heads completely...
    It is FAR more work to pull the heads, and far more cost to have the heads rebuilt. If only the seals are worn, and the guides are ok, compression ok, no head gasket leaking, IMO you'd be spending a bunch of money you didn't need to.



    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    ... or simply drop in a used lower mileage engine.
    This would be a bad idea, IMO, for multiple reasons. First the "high mileage 036" claim would go out the window, which would be a shame. Second, any used engine purchase will be an unknown entity. Third, any used engine - regardless of miles - is going to need the chain rails replaced and various seals/gaskets changed, requiring additional cost.


    I'd do the seals first and see what happens. If you get the first valve springs removed and find there is excessive play in the guides, then yeah, the heads might need a rebuild (i.e., guide replacement). If new seals fixes the problem, you just saved a bundle of money.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Refurbished heads definitely "sharpen up" the engine and how it runs. It's a very difficult thing to describe, but after I did my M117 it just felt crisper and energized. Didn't notice a power gain on the 117 but it just felt snappier overall. I think I paid about $550 for the M117 heads to be done.

    With the M104 top-end rebuild, I definitely noticed a sharpness/crispness (probably in part due to the new ETA) increase but also a power increase of probably 10-15%. The M104 head cost around $350-400 to have redone.

    Why I suggested the heads come off was simply to maintain the high-mileage title, as well. Plus, pulling the heads would allow you to closely examine the bottom end and the physical condition of the bores, rings, etc. Doing the heads is also a good time to do the timing chain, rails, rubber bits, vacuum system, and other things on the top end of the motor that need attending to. Plus, the experience of doing such is really wonderful and confidence-building.

    And, you could get the likes of KarlC, VinceC, Cannoli and DRW over to Carlsbad to do the grunt work while you "supervise"

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Out of curiosity, since it come up...if the entire engine is rebuilt, what does that mean in regard to the high mileage title? Rebuilding the heads doesn't affect that?
    How does installing a low mileage used engine change the fact that the chassis has covered all those miles?

    I'm assuming that the high-mileage title actually means something, which, it may not.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    In my opinion, it's the chassis + original engine combination that qualifies for "high mileage" award. No matter if the engine (heads/block) has been rebuilt or not, if it came with the car, then it's authentic.

    At this point it might just be bragging rights, but at some point in the future I'd think it would be an interesting testimonial, perhaps even to MB.

    I know that Ted Halton's 300SEL 6.3 in Portland had well over 300,000 miles on it when I lived there. Again probably just bragging rights, but I consider it a badge of honor and dedication to a car to keep it in well preserved order for so many miles / long a time.

    My 560SEC just turned 220,200 miles ....so it's got 37,000 miles on it since I did the top-end rebuild four-plus years ago. It is truly hard to believe it has been four years since I did that.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I think "engine rebuild" in general is thought to mean replacing crank & rod bearings, and piston rings, and possibly other bottom-end parts. A top-end refresh does not, IMO, constitute a "rebuild". A true rebuild would kinda spoil the high-mile claim, a top-end would only partially spoil it. If it were my high-mile record-breaking car, I'd like to be able to say the heads have never been removed and that the entire bottom end is 100% original and untouched.


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I think "engine rebuild" in general is thought to mean replacing crank & rod bearings, and piston rings, and possibly other bottom-end parts. A top-end refresh does not, IMO, constitute a "rebuild". A true rebuild would kinda spoil the high-mile claim, a top-end would only partially spoil it. If it were my high-mile record-breaking car, I'd like to be able to say the heads have never been removed and that the entire bottom end is 100% original and untouched.

    +1
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    +2

    drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
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    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I've always qualified my statements with "Top-End" rebuild to indicate just that. Literally, I have disassembled, had the cylinder heads tested and rebuilt with new parts as needed, renewed all "soft"/consumable/worn out parts at the top end of the engine, and reassembled everything. If that isn't "rebuilding" a top end, I don't know what is. Casting it in your own garage from molten aluminum with a mold of your own making, perhaps ?!?

    Why would someone want to keep running a worn-out engine just to brag that it's never had the heads off/refurbished or the bottom-end rebuilt?

    Wouldn't a car with a poorly running engine sort of defeat the purpose of having and enjoying said car? I mean, I guess it's never been done by anyone, but if you had say a worn-out M119 with 800K or 900K on the bottom end (and perhaps having the top-end rebuilt twice in that time frame), and it obviously needed to be torn down and rebuilt, wouldn't you want to do that as long as the car was still otherwise viable?

    In my opinion, if it's the original chassis and the car has the original block and heads, I'd absolutely consider the engine and chassis to be high-mileage title worthy.

    I've seen other MBs that hold the "official" high mileage awards, including a W108 with well over 1 million miles owned by a couple in California who bought it new, who have been featured in several MB print and broadcast advertisements.

    There's also a Greek taxi (W115 IIRC) that has something like 2.8 million miles on it, which I've seen in the MB Museum on display. Also seen it in advertisements.

    Then there's my Portland friend Barry Corno's signal red C126 380SEC, which last time I checked had around 600,000 miles on it. That car has had the block replaced once; the cylinder heads done twice, transmission twice, and interior once. Paint once along with touch-ups too.

    All of the cars above are considered "high mileage" cars and all of them have had bottom and top end work done. Yet I believe the first two retain their original engines.

    Which proves my point.

  43. #223

    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen,

    As far as the top and bottom end are concerened, I would leave them as is. Just keep doing the routine maintenence.
    It would be nice to see how many miles you can get on the original motor.
    I think it is worth something. . . .even if all it means is a nice little photo in Mercedes Enthusiast magazine.

    By the time the motor kaputs, I am sure you will know what is best for the car. . . .maybe a resto mod with the 6 speed transmission and a lower mileage motor?

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Why would someone want to keep running a worn-out engine just to brag that it's never had the heads off/refurbished or the bottom-end rebuilt? .
    Gerry, it doesn't sound to me like the engine is "worn out", nor "poorly running". Increased oil consumption can very likely be the result of tired seals. Why pull the heads if you don't need to? M119's don't eat guides like the M103 or M117. The vast majority of M119's go to the crusher with the original head gaskets still in place. Change the seals if there are no hard parts worn. Now, if Glen found a definite reason to remove the heads and rebuild them, that's different...

    Klink, where art thou?


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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Please don't put words in my mouth or twist my statements. I didn't say nor infer that Glen's engine was worn out, nor that his heads need rebuilding.

    I was just answering Glen's question about whether to consider doing the heads or replacing the whole kit and caboodle with a used engine, given the current level of oil use. My recommendation was to pull and rebuild refresh refurbish the cylinder heads rather than replace the entire engine -- if in fact Glen decided that something needed to be done.

    I certainly didn't tell him that his engine needed rebuilding/replacing! Notice I used the term "someone" instead of "Glen."

    I did use a "hypothetical" situation quoting 800-900K bottom-end but obviously that doesn't pertain to Glen's motor.

    While the top end is a different story, IMHO the bottom end of a 117 is just as durable as that of a 119.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

  46. #226
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    I'm with Dave on this one, sounds like the only issue is oil consumption,
    which is not "that" bad

    Do the valve seals, checking the first few guides as you go. Even slightly worn guides
    will benifit from fresh seals for a while.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Please don't put words in my mouth or twist my statements.
    You get a coveted double CYA, Gerry! Not quite the elusvie Triple, but darn close...





  48. #228
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Vader... Take note, grasshopper. 虔官昌

    It is why I, am Shaolin Master Po.



  49. #229
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Man, I snatched the pebble from your hand a long time ago.............



    "When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."Master Kan, Kung Fu

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)


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    LOL.

    I was just curious what folks thought about how engine work might play into the high mileage title of this car. I'll be clear, the engine runs very well, the only sign of the mileage is the very minor (IMO) oil consumption. Emission tests show low HC counts so to me, it's currently a non-issue. If it gets significantly worse, I will start with the valve seals and go from there.

    Side note: coming home from dinner tonight, the car was almost totaled by a Nissan Cube that ran a red light! Luckily I was paying attention and saw him in my peripheral and hit the brakes just in time. Full anti-lock activation, I stopped just as the Cube went through the intersection with maybe 2 feet between my bumper and the Cube. Whew!
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  52. #232
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    LOL.

    I was just curious what folks thought about how engine work might play into the high mileage title of this car. I'll be clear, the engine runs very well, the only sign of the mileage is the very minor (IMO) oil consumption. Emission tests show low HC counts so to me, it's currently a non-issue. If it gets significantly worse, I will start with the valve seals and go from there.

    Side note: coming home from dinner tonight, the car was almost totaled by a Nissan Cube that ran a red light! Luckily I was paying attention and saw him in my peripheral and hit the brakes just in time. Full anti-lock activation, I stopped just as the Cube went through the intersection with maybe 2 feet between my bumper and the Cube. Whew!
    WOW Glen so glad that you and yours are safe, be careful out there !
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    "When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."Master Kan, Kung Fu

    Very good, Asshopper!

    Not actually commenting on anything, I just can't help myself from saying that one whenever the kung fu thing starts up.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Gerry, it doesn't sound to me like the engine is "worn out", nor "poorly running". Increased oil consumption can very likely be the result of tired seals. Why pull the heads if you don't need to? M119's don't eat guides like the M103 or M117. The vast majority of M119's go to the crusher with the original head gaskets still in place. Change the seals if there are no hard parts worn. Now, if Glen found a definite reason to remove the heads and rebuild them, that's different...

    Klink, where art thou?

    Still sparse for a while, but around!
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Start of Fall 2014 update:
    I've been daily driving it all summer. So far this year, I've put on just over 5000 miles, about 8000 total since acquired in early 2013. With ~587.5K miles, the engine continues to run very well. After cleaning out the EGR tube a few months ago, I have not had any CEL issues either. During our hot spell (~90F) the last several weeks, the a/c system worked great and the coolant temp never went over the 100C mark.

    Now for some bad news. One of the pitfalls to daily driving is exposure to accidents. A few weeks ago, while sitting in traffic, I was rear ended by a Honda Pilot. The damage doesn't look too bad but repair will include a new rear bumper, tail light and a bit of body work on the right rear quarter. The Honda driver's insurance will pick up the bill for this...preliminary estimate is about $3000.
    Attached are some pictures of the damage.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Thanks for the update! I was just wondering the other day how things had been going with the car since I saw it in the spring.

    Wow Glen, on the accident. Hopefully you didn't get a whiplash or anything. Damage could have been much worse, so it looks eminently fixable.

    May I ask what you did to clean out the EGR tube? What code were you getting that made you decide to clean that out?

  57. #237
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glad you're okay.

    You should get diminished value as well as the costs to repair.

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Thanks for the update! I was just wondering the other day how things had been going with the car since I saw it in the spring.

    Wow Glen, on the accident. Hopefully you didn't get a whiplash or anything. Damage could have been much worse, so it looks eminently fixable.

    May I ask what you did to clean out the EGR tube? What code were you getting that made you decide to clean that out?
    Gerry: I documented it starting at post #176. I was getting code #5 on pin 19.

  59. #239
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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    Glen, I can only imagine your thoughts when you hear the screeching of the tires right before the crash. Bummer.

    Maybe you can use some of the $3K towards a repaint ?
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

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    Re: OWNER - Glen (199)

    It was a very low speed impact, I'd estimate no more than 3 MPH. The Pilot driver was following too closely and not paying attention. No injuries to anyone.

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