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Thread: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

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    Senior Member Jackasic's Avatar
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    group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Our very own gsxr has helped get this started and it if finally ready to kick off!

    I am going to order a batch, but would like to offer up a group guy to members first. A few folks have already placed interest, so just need to see who else out there is interested. Post up or IM me for interest. Once I lock down the number and place the order, they will be a $500 deposit and the rest due when they are ready to ship. It will take about 10 weeks to produce them from when I order them, so lets get this rolling soon.

    we are going to be retailing these on our site for: $1,395 US

    group buy is 10% off plus free shipping in the states (little extra over seas):$1,245


    We will also stock other Benz differentials from Wavetrac, so hit me up if you need one of those.

    http://wavetrac.net/technical.htm



    Feind - 5 (complete)
    gsxr - 2 (complete)
    gerryvz - 1 (complete)
    Jono - 4 (paid)
    modzona - 1 (complete)
    Rouven036 - 2 (complete)
    doolar - 1 (paid)
    Mejnoon - 1 (paid)
    quicksilver500 - 1 (complete)
    500 AMM - 3 (complete)
    Cannoli - 1 (complete)
    m104-AMG - 1 (complete)
    ==================
    Total: 23

    deposit paid - 23
    complete - 17
    Last edited by Jackasic; 04-11-2014 at 10:56 AM. Reason: update

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Thank you, Brandon! I am interested in 2 units.

    Just so everyone else knows what we're talking about here... this WaveTrac will be similar in design to the Quaife QDF5V, although the WaveTrac design may be slightly superior when one wheel is unloaded (read their tech info for details). Both Quaife and Wave-Trac are ATB-type limited slip diffs (aka Gleason-Torsen) with no clutch pack to wear out. The WaveTrac will be lower cost, is made in USA, and will not have issues being shipped from Europe (ask anyone who has dealt with Quaife before).

    I've had Quaifes in both of my 500E's for a couple of years now. I need them for dragstrip use, to heat both tires evenly during a burnout, and to eliminate wheelspin at launch. On the street, ASR is usually all you need. On the track, or for hooning, LSD is necessary.

    These units will ONLY work with 210mm MB diffs and 2.65, 2.82, or 3.06 gear ratios (that includes all 500E's worldwide, since they all had 2.82 gears). It's a bolt-in upgrade, figure about 2 hours to remove your diff housing/pumpkin from the car, 2 hours to re-install, plus several hours to install the WaveTrac into your diff. It's an advanced DIY job, if you've never done it before, it's best to pay a rear-end shop to do it for you (should be 3-5 hours labor tops if they know what they're doing).

    Side note: The factory Mercedes clutch-type differential had been cheaper... but as of Jan-1-2014, it's $1500 MSRP and no longer a bargain. And the clutches will wear out (rapidly, with road-course use). The WaveTrac doesn't wear out, and has a lifetime warranty.

    Dave M.
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    So is the $1,395 price based on a group buy?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by szvook View Post
    So is the $1,395 price based on a group buy?
    No. $1,395 is MSRP. Brandon will be able to get a discount off that. How much, you'll need to PM him and ask. I'm guessing 10-20% or so...?


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    Senior Member Jackasic's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I have a MAP agreement (minimum advertized price) agreement with Wavetrac, so I am only posting the MSRP. Need to get to the office and see what I can and can't post up. It will be a percentage off, for the group buy, to get the ball rolling.

    If I bought 50+ units I could get a better price, but I don't want to drop more than I paid for my w211 for you slackers
    Last edited by Jackasic; 01-03-2014 at 08:41 PM.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Jack-Man,

    I'm in for one, but of course we'll have to install it up in Bryan. Perhaps a diff + swaybar upgrade would be a good combo for my E500.

    And maybe you can take a few NOS hits on the slalom road leading to your shop while we're at it.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackasic View Post
    I don't want to drop more than I paid for my w211 for you slackers
    Agreed ... people don't tend to take advantage of these "deals" when they come up ... a la the BergWerks FGS and NOS kits, the RDMTek modified rear LCAs, and now this Wavetrac unit....

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    Senior Member Jackasic's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    you are welcome to bring it up, I kind of cheat on gears though. I just pull the pumpkin and take it to my local gear shop and get them to do it. best 100 bucks you can spend.

    Definitely need to shoot another vid on the secret shop test track.

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    Senior Member Jackasic's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Bear in mind a Quaife is $1500+ and you will have to pay to have it shipped from across the pond. I am fan of the Wavetrac solution, with it's lack of clutch packs.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Will the Wavetrac play nice with ASR?
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Will the Wavetrac play nice with ASR?
    Yes, it should play nice. The Quaife is almost transparent after a short break-in period, I expect WaveTrack will be similar.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Can it be tested on a 036 and on the street?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    sure, as soon as you order one

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    How will this work on a E420?


    Got a price on a quaife diff. from a local dealer here in morepay. They wanted 2200$. So if this will work just as good. Well then Im in.
    Regards Martin
    E420 Sportline 175k km 1994 - 199 Blauschwarz - Black Leather - ASR - AC - 18" Lorinser RS 1
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    works with any 210mm ring gear housing, even w126 cars. These actually work a little better than the Q due to the design and have a higher finishing standard. The big reason these were design is that Wavetrac was a Q dealer and ended up having to fix the ones they imported to the states.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    That was what i thought. Sign me up for 1.
    Regards Martin
    E420 Sportline 175k km 1994 - 199 Blauschwarz - Black Leather - ASR - AC - 18" Lorinser RS 1
    260E 270k km 1992 - 702 Rauchsilber - ASD - AC
    230TE 330k km 1992 - AC /// E220 200k km 1995

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I would like to take advantage of this if it is really worth it, but I also don't feel like laying on the floor of my garage to to do it. So, what should I expect a shop to charge for the install?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by modzona View Post
    How will this work on a E420? .
    WARNING: This diff will only fit Euro-spec E420 with 2.65 gears.

    USA and Japan spec 124.034 chassis have 2.24 gears and this diff WILL NOT work (the Quaife won't work either). No, you can't shim it to fit, that only works if your gears are higher numerical than the carrier, not lower.

    WaveTrac may be willing to do a production run on 2.24 diffs, however I think the minimum order is 5 or 10 units.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    I would like to take advantage of this if it is really worth it, but I also don't feel like laying on the floor of my garage to to do it. So, what should I expect a shop to charge for the install?
    It's 2-4 hours to get the diff out of the car and back in, plus another 4-5 hours to install the WaveTrac. Depends on your local shop rate. Probably somewhere between $500-$1k total if you drop the car off stock and pick it up WaveTrac'd.

    To enjoy the hooning benefits afterwards, you'll need an ASR defeat switch, if you car doesn't already have one. Fat 285 rear tires will hinder the hooning (ask me how I know).


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Is this really worth it for a non tracked car?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    Is this really worth it for a non tracked car?
    Honestly... probably not, for cars with ASR (like all 500E's). ASR works quite well but is less fun.

    For dragstrip use, road course, or hooning, yes it's worth it. Or if you have a 6L engine. Or if you have a car without ASR (i.e. Euro 400E/E420, or M104-powered W124 without ASR).


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I need a vocabulary lesson….what is hooning?


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    So are you implying that you partake in hoonyism?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    there was a good sheet on Jono's page that showed what carriers worked, need to find that.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    So are you implying that you partake in hoonyism?
    Oh heavens no! I would never do such things. *snort/chuckle*

    Actually my LSD need is due to dragstrip use. Without LSD you usually only spin one tire during the burnout, so you launch with one tire cold, and one warm. The result is often wheelspin from the cold tire, which results in a loss instead of a win. LSD means heating up both tyres evenly. And if the track surface is not optimal, if one tire does start to spin, the LSD will still transfer power to the other tire. That doesn't happen with the stock open diff. LSD cures all these evils.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackasic View Post
    there was a good sheet on Jono's page that showed what carriers worked, need to find that.
    You mean my differentials PDF file? Click here. See page 5.

    This WaveTrac will ONLY replace open differentials #'s 126-350-09-23 and factory limited slip diff # 126-350-40-23.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    LSD cures all these evils
    Doesn't sound like the LSD I remember from the '70s.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    sorry, that was your page I was thinking of

    Most carriers (I believe Mercedes is the same) have the same carrier constraints (regardless of open or LSD) it is the ring gear that is the deciding factor. Below a certain range, the gear is a different thickness, which affects the offset need in the carrier. I went from 2:54ish to a 3:27 in my 126 and used the same carrier.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackasic View Post
    Most carriers (I believe Mercedes is the same) have the same carrier constraints (regardless of open or LSD) it is the ring gear that is the deciding factor. Below a certain range, the gear is a different thickness, which affects the offset need in the carrier. I went from 2:54ish to a 3:27 in my 126 and used the same carrier.
    I'm not sure about the ring gear differences, but MB changes the carrier for various gearsets, as seen in the PDF file above. The location of the ring gear changes relative to the pinion centerline for different gearsets. I'm not familiar with the 126 diffs, so I'm not sure how you were able to use a 3.27 gear with a 2.5x carrier. Maybe Jono knows... he's the 126 guy 'round these parts!


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Late to the party, but if you like to drive Spiritedly an LSD for the 036 or Any car w/ ASR if So much win. I find ASR infuriating especially when trying to get the Jump in the city/across traffic, come out of a corner Hard etc.. When that ASR hits it feels like a boat anchor. W/ the LSD in place ASR only seems to kick when things Really get loose. The LSD coupled w/ an ASR defeat makes things Perrrrfect IMHO.

    Also, if you like to drive Spiritedly on back roads/up in the mountains/along the coast you will Love the way you car corners/accelerates/brakes w/ a proper LSD. It will transform things.
    On my track rat the Quaife I have was the Biggest change. Really made the car/package.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I'm in too. In case I would take 2,same price? Further I need to know the shipment costs to Germany and Kuwait to verify, since german custom duties and taxes will be around 29%.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    ouch, they stick it to you. I normally use USPS for international because it is less expensive. If you have a shipping account with someone, I can use that also. Shipping would be actual charges, let me find out the package size and weight. From that you can check where the best place to ship is and through whom.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Great Thx.!

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    For a rough estimate, plan on a box 12x12x12 inches, and total weight around 25 lbs (12kg), for a single unit. (The Quaife QDF5V is approx 22 lbs plus packing.)

    USPS Priority International is usually the cheapest ship method from USA to other countries.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Will this let me do powerslides and donuts? If so, I think I want in, for at least one unit, mayyyyybe two. Waiting for a text message. *ahem*
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by jano View Post
    Will this let me do powerslides and donuts? If so, I think I want in, for at least one unit, mayyyyybe two. Waiting for a text message. *ahem*
    just doing some research to confirm suspicions...
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by jano View Post
    Will this let me do powerslides and donuts?
    Yes, this will let you enjoy multiple hooning modes. Sticky tires and 5.0L power may limit the fun slightly. With less-grippy rubber and/or 6L power, you'll have fun trying to keep the rear end behind you.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Any idea when you are going to start the process of ordering and taking in the deposits?
    Regards Martin
    E420 Sportline 175k km 1994 - 199 Blauschwarz - Black Leather - ASR - AC - 18" Lorinser RS 1
    260E 270k km 1992 - 702 Rauchsilber - ASD - AC
    230TE 330k km 1992 - AC /// E220 200k km 1995

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Oh holy crap this would fit my non-ASD E420 nicely. What's the shipping to Sweden?
    Thomas
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    hopefully in about a week or so. Trying to corral all the cats and see who all wants them before I order. This isn't something they are going to stock, so what ever I order will be it till the next batch.

    Shipping to Sweden is probably 130 bucks or so. Time to make that weak US dollar work for you!

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    A VERY VERY rough ship estimate would be $100-$200 USD for most countries worldwide, for a single unit, via USPS. Sweden should be on the lower end of that range. Some countries (like Australia) will be on the upper end. You'll need to contact Brandon (Jackasic) for a solid estimate. If you need it shipped UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc... it could be double or triple that much.

    EDIT - looks like Brandon and I were typing at the same time. The weak US dollar does make this attractive for overseas buyers. Total should be $1000-$1050 EUR delivered to most of Europe, if I did my maths correctly, based on current USD-EUR exchange rate of ~1.35.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Even more attractive for us "EU but non-Euro" countries with strong economies.

    I'll pull the trigger on this one, Jackasic please put me up on your list of buyers.

    Cheers
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I'll have to skip this batch, maybe on the next batch I'll get one.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Is here a price yet?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Original post was updated:

    Group buy is 10% off plus free shipping in the states: $1,245 USD total.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Original post was updated:

    Group buy is 10% off plus free shipping in the states: $1,245 USD total.
    "I see", said the blind man. Tempting for sure.

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  47. #47
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I am going to stock a few on the Fiend web store after the GB, but the price will be back up to retail.

  48. #48

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I'm in for 1

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Never mind

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    The Wavetrac ATB looks great! And especially their function during slip and retard (..not that it's extremely important for my use though). However, the price is good.

    I consider to sign up for one, but I recently heard rumours saying they are quite more noisy than the Quaife ATB. Does anyone know anything about that?


    -a-
    Last edited by 500AMM; 01-13-2014 at 07:23 AM.
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I've never read anything about them being more noisy than Quaife. Under normal driving in a straight line, they should be silent.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    if you hear the diff, put in a louder exhaust--> Problem Solved! Besides, I'm sure it's not as Loud as a Detroit locker!
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    "Under normal driving in a straight line, they should be silent. "

    Spoken like a drag racer

    "if you hear the diff, put in a louder exhaust"

    Spoken as a track racer..

    You guys are funny today!@

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I did a bit of searching trying to find out what noise people were complaining about. Sounds to me like gear whine, which is a setup/intallation issue, NOT an issue with the diff itself... and the Quaife should be no more or less noisy than Wavetrac, or the stock OE diffs, for that matter. The only time you'd hear anything else would be with one wheel unloaded and spinning, with the Quaife, you hear a slight "whirring" noise when this happens. The WaveTrac design is different, and may not have the same result.

    Regardless, noise should be a non-issue. But this does highlight the need to make SURE the diff is installed by a competent shop that knows how to properly measure (and adjust!) bearing preload and backlash on Meredes differentials. This requires a shim assortment, some shims are NLA from MB, custom shims may have to be fabricated. I've managed to build three different LSD's using factory available shims and had zero noise with them. YMMV, etc.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I did a bit of searching trying to find out what noise people were complaining about. Sounds to me like gear whine, which is a setup/intallation issue, NOT an issue with the diff itself... and the Quaife should be no more or less noisy than Wavetrac, or the stock OE diffs, for that matter. The only time you'd hear anything else would be with one wheel unloaded and spinning, with the Quaife, you hear a slight "whirring" noise when this happens. The WaveTrac design is different, and may not have the same result.

    Regardless, noise should be a non-issue. But this does highlight the need to make SURE the diff is installed by a competent shop that knows how to properly measure (and adjust!) bearing preload and backlash on Meredes differentials. This requires a shim assortment, some shims are NLA from MB, custom shims may have to be fabricated. I've managed to build three different LSD's using factory available shims and had zero noise with them. YMMV, etc.

    Many thanks for checking , Dave!
    I didn't mean to spread doubts, I just got that comment from a person who expressed it more like a question, so it is not widely spread rumours. I've also read reviews about Wavetrac (...Quaife and other LSDs/ATBs too) on the internet, but I did neither find any comment about noise. A proper set-up of the diff is of utmost importance. I guess some here will take on a DIY, so it should be nice with a "Tip & Trick" thread when time comes.

    So, Brandon - I sign up for one too.
    I'll take it by "surface shipping" i.e. boat, the shipping forwarders collecting point is in Linden, New Jersey. Me and the other Norwegian member Modzona has discussed common shipping, but we are living 1300 km (808 miles) apart so we have to check out the national shipping first.

    I may have another potential buyer, so when is the last call on this?

    Cheers
    -a-
    Last edited by 500AMM; 01-14-2014 at 03:49 AM.
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I am going to give it till a week from friday,then place my order. That should give everyone enough time to decide if they want in. I am going to order some for stock, but they will be at retail on our web site. I am flexible on shipping, just let me know what you want to do. Lot of Australian guys use a freight forwarder.

    Btw, you can also pay in Bitcoin

  57. #57
    E500E explorer 500AMM's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackasic View Post
    I am going to give it till a week from friday,then place my order. That should give everyone enough time to decide if they want in. I am going to order some for stock, but they will be at retail on our web site. I am flexible on shipping, just let me know what you want to do. Lot of Australian guys use a freight forwarder.

    Btw, you can also pay in Bitcoin
    Aha - that was interesting, supposed I get a fixed exchange rate and the receiver carry the risk on the transaction...
    It would in fact avoid the 25% Norwegian VAT on the import too because the Bitcoin is not a registered currency and the VAT is based on that. The Bitcoin transaction can neither be tracked to the payer. Virtual money sounds exciting.

    -a-
    Arnt
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  58. #58
    Senior Member Cannoli's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Here's your 20th unit ... I'm in ... PM payment details please.

    Gig'em
    ================
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Brandon, is there any price reduction from WaveTrac if you get an order larger than X units? I was just curious if there might be a few percent discount if you got 20-25 orders.


  60. #60
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    not sure, i'll send my rep an email. He has been Europe for trade shows, so it may be a week or so before I hear.

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