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Thread: Power steering (tandem) pump repair kit

  1. #1
    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Power steering (tandem) pump repair kit

    Chaps,

    I am looking for a repair kit for my car's power steering pump. Did an internet search and found two kits on Partstrain.com:

    Hebmuller Power Steering Pump Repair Kit
    For 1993 Mercedes Benz 500E Base 8 Cyl 5.0L $15.95

    Hebmuller Power Steering Pump Repair Kit
    For 1993 Mercedes Benz 500E Base 8 Cyl 5.0L $26.95

    I asked what the difference is between them and their answer was "for specific provisions for specific parts". I doubt I'll ever visit their site again.

    Does anyone know why one is more expensive that the other?

    Regards,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    There are two different tandem pumps used on the 500E... one is made by ZF, the other is made by Vickers/LUK. The internal parts are different. You must use the kit for the pump on your car. The EPC specifies a particular repair kit for the different pump part numbers. You must read the label on your pump (it's visible via flashlight) and get at least the mfr's name, or better yet, the exact part number of the pump. That will ensure you get the correct repair kit.

    BTW - the OE seal kit for the Vickers/LUK pump is $99 MSRP, the OE kit for the ZF pump is only $30. I have no idea why there is such a huge difference. Also, this is not a project I'd recommend as DIY - or if you do, be prepared to buy a rebuilt pump & turn in your old one as a core if you screw anything up. I just did this on a Vickers/LUK pump and it wasn't fun. Thread + photos coming soon. (Edit: Gerry created an epic How-To thread on re-sealing the ZF tandem pump, click here.)

    Don't forget to order the SLS low-pressure hose as well, you only need a little bit, and the old stuff is usually fossilized after 15+ years. I changed the hose at the bottom of the SLS reservoir too, and flushed out the old hydraulic fluid as well, while the system was open. Might as well do the same for the PS circuit too (oh, and the PS hose above the pump, to the reservoir, also must be replaced - see photo below).

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Dave M.
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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Thanks, Dave. I don't know what I would do without you, you are a super champ!

    I plan to do it in my mechanic friend's garage under his supervision. We found the pump's leak last Friday while changing the oil

    Cheers

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Tips on the pump R&R are in this thread, including photos:
    http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/sho ... p?t=164607

    Skip to post #15. This is showing a non-tandem pump on an E420 but the mounting brackets/bolts are identical.



    Another interesting concept, which I have not personally tried, is mentioned in post #2 on this thread:
    http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/sho ... hp?t=17885

    Update Feb-2017: I have used the method described above on 400E/E420 power steering pumps, but have never tried it on a 500E/E500 tandem pump.


    Dave M.
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    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Great info, Dave.

    I did my best to check the pump brand, looks like yours - #15 in the link you attached. The brand label says: Zab[h]enradfa... so, it must be the ZF pump.

    Cheers,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Yes, ZF stands for Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen. Friedrichshafen is a city on the Lake of Constance in southern Germany, which forms much of the border between Germany and Switzerland.

    Friedrichshafen is also the traditional home of Zeppelin (the early airship maker) and has been an aerospace center of Germany ever since with other companies such as Dornier AG (now part of Daimler Aerospace Group).

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Hi Chaps,

    I found only one brand for the pump kit, Hebmuller. Is this the only brand available?

    Regards,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    The ZF seal kit is cheap from the dealership - I bought the Genuine Mercedes kit, part number 000-460-37-80, current MSRP is $30 at the dealership.

    Autohaus sells a Febi kit for $24. BuyMBParts has the Hebmuller kit for $22.

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Finally, tomorrow night my friend William and I are going to repair my car's power steering pump. I bought the genuine ZF repair kit in April but had to wait because our schedules did not coincide.

    Should I use genuine MB fluid or get something else? I believe MB recommends using transmission fluid (Dexron III) in the PS pump.

    Regards,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    MB fluid, available from the stealership. Always, MB fluid.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Chaps,

    Well, we did it last night, it took approximately 4 hours to install the power steering pump repair kit.

    We had to lift the car, unbolt the car's motor mounts, lower the car, jack the engine up and lower the car again in order to access a screw behind the pump with practically no room but for a very small wrench, a tight fit.

    After that everything went well and we finished at 4:10 am.

    We also found out that the belt needs replacement. I was quoted $85 from the local dealer this morning when I went to buy hydraulic fluid for the levelling suspension ($22.75).

    Thanks to Dave for the very useful pictures and detailed info.

    Long live 500Espot!!!

    Kind regards,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Great work!

    Did you (perchance) take any photos?

    If the belt isn't critical, I'd consider ordering the factory part from http://www.parts.com

    Goto the site, then click on "Mercedes" brand, then click on any year and any model of car that comes up.

    Then on the left hand side of the screen you'll see a link that says "Enter Multiple Part Numbers"

    Click on that link and enter the part number in the first blank, then click enter.

    The belt depends on whether your car is an early (1992) or later (1993-1994) model. You can see the price differential for a factory part between what your dealer is quoting you and the REAL MB part from parts.com

    DON'T get raped by your dealer! It appears as if they are charging you way above list prices.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
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    Senior Member 550Maranello's Avatar
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Thanks, Gerry.

    It did not cross my mind to take photos, sorry about that, I should have known better.

    My car was built in February 93.

    When it comes to fluids I buy them locally because shipping charges offsets the discount I get from MB.

    Kind regards,

    Orazio

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by 550Maranello
    When it comes to fluids I buy them locally because shipping charges offsets the discount I get from MB.
    Totally makes sense with regard to small items and fluids, etc. to get them at the dealer given shipping charges and all. Agree 100% !

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post

    BTW - the OE seal kit for the Vickers/LUK pump is $99 MSRP, the OE kit for the ZF pump is only $30. I have no idea why there is such a huge difference. Also, this is not a project I'd recommend as DIY - or if you do, be prepared to buy a rebuilt pump & turn in your old one as a core if you screw anything up. I just did this on a Vickers/LUK pump and it wasn't fun. Thread + photos coming soon.


    Dave, I guess the thread and photos aren't coming any time soon then

    I have a pretty serious leak going on - SLS fluid mostly, and from a close investigation this evening (without disassembling anything) it seems that leak is directly behind the pulley on the front of the pump, the pump is a Vickers model LFR67, MB part number I can't see all of it but 129 460 1XXX. Haven't lost much PS fluid at all but it went through almost a litre of SLS fluid in the past fortnight, and the fan and pulleys have done a wonderful job of spreading the love all over the lower half of the engine.

    You were warning against this as a DIY? I have some other bits to do on the front of the engine at the same time, including the fan clutch so I was planning on pulling the rad anyhow for easier access to everything.... would you even attempt a reseal with the pump still in the car? I'm happy to take one for the team and give it a shot, I mean how hard can it be right..

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Ah, new years eve and I'm covered in oil (and not the fun kind).

    released one of the oil lines to a rear shock and I have a high pressure mix of hydraulic oil and nitrogen bubbles coming out.... me thinks at least one of the spheres is ruptured. Popping the replacements in now but that still leaves the pump to sort out. Hmm is it possible for too much pressure in the lines to blow a pump seal, or is it strictly a low pressure circuit at the pump end?

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    D'oh. I totally forgot to post the thread while I still had the data in memory. Of course now I've forgotten a bunch. The photos are at this link.

    This is medium/advanced DIY, but it's mostly tedious and annoying. I'd say it's not possible to rebuild the tandem pump with the pump on the car, although I bet someone out there has done it. However I would NOT recommend trying... just take the pump off the car. My photos at the link above show how to access the bolts to remove the pump from the bracket. Then rebuild on the workbench. Be extremely careful removing & installing the circlips on the shaft, you can easily damage the edge of the groove on the shaft - too much damage and you're either buying a new shaft ($$$) or a rebuilt pump ($$$).

    If you follow the FSM procedure on replacing the rear shocks or nitro cells, it says to discharge the system first, via the bleed screw on top of the SLS valve. You'll get a lot of oil out (at least a half quart, I think). It's a high pressure circuit, so what you experienced is normal. The leak up front is almost guaranteed to be from the shaft seal.


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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    This is medium/advanced DIY, but it's mostly tedious and annoying. I'd say it's not possible to rebuild the tandem pump with the pump on the car, although I bet someone out there has done it. However I would NOT recommend trying... just take the pump off the car. My photos at the link above show how to access the bolts to remove the pump from the bracket. Then rebuild on the workbench. Be extremely careful removing & installing the circlips on the shaft, you can easily damage the edge of the groove on the shaft - too much damage and you're either buying a new shaft ($$$) or a rebuilt pump ($$$).
    UPDATE:
    I just re-sealed a ZF tandem pump. Well mostly... I really only wanted to replace the front shaft seal, so I only took it apart far enough to replace that, then re-assembled. The ZF pump is a different design than the Vickers/LUK pump. The Vickers/LUK has two snap rings and the ring lands are fragile. The ZF pump has only one snap ring and the ring land is robust. Photos below. This means that repairing an ZF pump is less risky as DIY, although I would still recommend ordering a new snap ring in case you damage it during removal (serious PITA to remove, wonder if there's a fancy Hazet tool that makes this easier?). I'm not sure I'd even attempt to re-seal a Vickers/LUK pump again.


    NOTE: Photo attached is of the ZF pump snap ring:


    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Hi.

    Here is a photo of the front section of the pump housing, where the axle is taken out. It is tricky to get out the axle bearing/sleeve in the pump housing, without damaging the seat, but it is possible with the right tools. I made my own from wornout screwdrivers. The loose parts on the right is the internals for the piston operated SLS pump. (The strange sleeve shown on top, is a tool I made, just in case I didn't get the pistons out/in. I couldn't know that until it was done. This tool is not necessary.) Parts at right from top:
    - 4 pistons w/springs
    - washer
    - operating sleeve/follower for the pistons
    - bearing/sleeve on the eccentric axle (sits inside the follower)
    - sealring, sits on top of the axle sleeve in the pump housing.

    All parts are accessible when the center pump section (the small housing for the impeller wheel) and the impeller wheel is separated from the front pump housing.

    This topic has also been discussed one this thread a while back: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/show...SLS-adjustment

    -arnt-
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    Last edited by 500AMM; 01-24-2012 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Misprints and better wording
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    I need a set of 4 pistons and 4 springs as shown in the top right of the picture. if anyone has a dead pump may I have those items? Alternatively if you could measure the pistons and springs in sufficient detail to allow me to get some made. I have been looking for 4 years now... Thread-jack Over.
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    I need a set of 4 pistons and 4 springs as shown in the top right of the picture. if anyone has a dead pump may I have those items? Alternatively if you could measure the pistons and springs in sufficient detail to allow me to get some made. I have been looking for 4 years now... Thread-jack Over.
    Jim, why not just buy a complete used pump from a salvage yard or eBay, and rebuild/reseal that pump instead? The same pump was used on the 119.972 engine (500SL/SL500, 1993-1995). Potomac German in MD has a complete used 129-460-28-80 (ZF) pump for $265 USD.

    FYI - the pistons you're looking for may be different between ZF and Vickers/LUK pumps. MB only sells the complete assembly with pistons, springs, & housing and it's $$$. Another option is to buy a rebuilt pump and turn in your bad one as a core...


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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Question -- if one's car comes with a ZF pump, is a Vickers/LuK pump a direct bolt-on, or are there other dependencies that would require one to stick with their original brand of pump?

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Good question. You can interchange complete pumps no problem, the only thing that changes is the length of hose above the pump, to the reservoir... ZF pumps use 53mm of hose, Vickers/LUK use 76mm of hose. This is due to the different top housing on the two pumps, the ZF is taller. This hose should always be replaced any time the pump is removed, it's cheap insurance against leaks.

    Some internal parts/seals are also the same, but many are different, which is why the seal kits are different part numbers depending on the brand. Also, when buying an aftermarket rebuilt pump, you may need to send back the same type in order to get core credit. MB has two different part numbers for rebuilds, but the aftermarket rebuilders may or may not - probably depends on the vendor.



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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    OK, so what you're saying is that as long as you have the COMPLETE pump and correct ancillary items (i.e. hose), it should be a direct bolt-on.

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    OK, so what you're saying is that as long as you have the COMPLETE pump and correct ancillary items (i.e. hose), it should be a direct bolt-on.
    Yes.


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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Another option is to buy a rebuilt pump and turn in your bad one as a core...
    I have already had my old one resealed. That was in my early 500E ownership days before I had much idea how it all worked. The MB dealership in Kuwait pointed out that the pistons and springs were missing. Seems a shame to turm in a good pump when all it needs is 8 small items.

    I will see...presently both cars have good pumps.
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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Jim, why not just buy a complete used pump from a salvage yard or eBay, and rebuild/reseal that pump instead? The same pump was used on the 119.972 engine (500SL/SL500, 1993-1995). Potomac German in MD has a complete used 129-460-28-80 (ZF) pump for $265 USD.

    FYI - the pistons you're looking for may be different between ZF and Vickers/LUK pumps. MB only sells the complete assembly with pistons, springs, & housing and it's $$$. Another option is to buy a rebuilt pump and turn in your bad one as a core...
    Where can I pickup up a rebuilt one and send in my core ? Does anyone one a have a link to a website?

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Looks like most of the online dealers (Naperville, etc) offer rebuilts with exchange/core... but they aren't cheap.

    Naperville: http://www.mboemparts.com/?p=catalog...=129-460-28-80

    I can't find any aftermarket vendors (in USA) that are currently selling rebuilt pumps. May not be enough demand for the anymore.

    The pumps very rarely fail, IME 99% of the time it's the front shaft seal which fails & leaks.

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    I don't know if everyone knows that when you order a power steering repair kit for your W124 500E or E500, you must tell the dealer the brand of power steering pump you have in your car, LUK or ZF, so you receive the proper repair kit according to the brand. At least this is what the MB dealer asked me a while back.


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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Quote Originally Posted by Eno View Post
    I don't know if everyone knows that when you order a power steering repair kit for your W124 500E or E500, you must tell the dealer the brand of power steering pump you have in your car, LUK or ZF, so you receive the proper repair kit according to the brand. At least this is what the MB dealer asked me a while back.
    That is correct. The kits are different... each pump (ZF vs LuK/Vickers) uses different internal seals. You must check what type is on the car before ordering the seal kit.


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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    There is more information on the power steering tandem pump rebuild and related info (specifically on the ZF pump, which I have in my own car) in this thread: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3902

    Note that the Vickers tandem pump is a bit more difficult to rebuild than the ZF pump, because of the vaunted "circlip issue"

    GSXR also I believe has information on his site about the two types of pumps, ZF and Vickers.
    http://www.w124performance.com/image...s/tandem_pump/

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    Re: Pwr steering pump repair kit

    Be careful with the fine print on the core- some places say it must be rebuildable....


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  37. #33
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    Re: Power steering (tandem) pump repair kit

    The tamdem pump in my 1992 500E was a LUK item- which is the more expensive seal kit

    IMG_2060.JPG


    These are pics from when I rebuilt it. Not a difficult task – just take care to have everything very clean & don’t lose parts! Some VERY small parts in there – ball bearings, springs & such. Care must be taken when removing the internal circlip – it’s a delicate area & if done wrong could take a chunk off the shaft. I used external circlip pliers at an angle to remove it – with relative ease.


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    IMG_2074.JPG
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    IMG_2079.JPG
    IMG_2201.JPG

    My top tip is to use Zip ties for holding in the little spring pistons whilst inserting the centre shaft. The plastic cable ties are then cut when in position – it saves scraping the delicate surfaces when re-assembling.
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