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Thread: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

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    FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    No affiliation. AutoCheck report attached below photos.

    VIN = WDBEA36E5NB766422

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/252077312791 <-- Auction ends 9/8/2015. $40k opening bid with reserve, $58k BIN.

    1992 Mercedes-Benz 500-Series
    Mercedes Benz 500E with 34,000 miles & factory OZ AMG Wheels; Über Rare


    This particular "California car" is Black on Black with the uber rare AMG optional OZ wheels of the era. It's a very low miles car with less than 35,000 miles, no body blemishes and no mechanical issues of any kind. The one dark mark is that the car was hit in a parking lot once under the watch of a previous owner. Taking an extreme route through insurance, the car was marked as salvage though it was not only fixable, but driveable from the incident. The good news is that when purchased again it was given an amazing replacement of the entire rear end at the weld points of the actual factory. In other words, the new owner took the back part of another 500 E and welded it together the way the factory would have originally. We had this checked by a third party shop who can give a non-partisan view of the car overall and this issue to an interested buyer.

    Good Luck Bidding!
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I have record of this car in my database from August, 2007. At that time it was located in Sacramento, CA and had 30,000 miles on the odometer. It was an insurance auction purchase by my friend Robert Fenton, who repaired the car at that time (per auction description) and sold it at a later date.

    The car was hit in the rear and in the left-rear quarter panel.

    Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the car. I can enquire of Robert how much he sold the car for, and when he sold it. I will report this information back here later today.

    This car is priced significantly higher than it should be, particularly with a salvage title. The seller is going to have to come down on their price in a very big way to complete a timely sale of this car.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    The seller is going to have to come down on their price in a very big way to complete a timely sale of this car.
    Yeah, that's a "heat check" if ever I saw one. No, no one is going to jump for that car at that price. Drop the price $20k and people might not laugh.

    But it's a good looking car though, for those who trust the rear end replacement. Wheels are a plus for people who prefer an AMG look, even on non-AMG cars (which is most people, I understand).

    maw

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    This car has been talked about on here before ...... http://www.500eboard.com/forums/show...3870#post33870

    Quote Originally Posted by DW SD View Post
    Robert's 31k mile car has really bad paint etching all over the top panels. I am not a body / paint expert, though I do have an detailed eye. I suspect some significant polishing still might leave significant issues or very thin clearcoat. I was a bit disappointed thinking I might see a time capsule.

    Doug

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I saw the 31K salvage car about 6 weeks ago, it was just getting finished by the detailer and looked quite good. Basically that car had a complete 500E rear end welded onto it from the seat rearward. It is 100% straight and impossible to tell that it was welded together unless you remove the rear seat and trunk lining and see the weld marks. I think he is selling the car for around $20K-25K with salvage title. It was hit hard in the rear, which necessitated the Frankenstein operation.

    As I remember it, the paint was looking pretty good from the detailing, though it wasn't 100% done when I saw it. I'll take another look at it on Friday and include photos of both cars, along with detailed reports.
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    That has to be a new all time high asking price for a salvage title car.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I'm not sure it would sell in that price range even with a clean title, 1-owner, with all records... in the current market, anyway.


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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I'm not sure it would sell in that price range even with a clean title, 1-owner, with all records... in the current market, anyway.

    + infinity

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I think it's a mid to high $20K car in today's market. $30 at the very top. The salvage title should take about 30-40% off the top. I think the repair work was done well, but a salvage title is a salvage title. And this repair was not just a simple "replace the hood/headlights/radiator support/front bumper" type of thing.

    I guess that East Bay weed is pretty strong....

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I think it's a mid to high $20K car in today's market. $30 at the very top. The salvage title should take about 30-40% off the top. I think the repair work was done well, but a salvage title is a salvage title. And this repair was not just a simple "replace the hood/headlights/radiator support/front bumper" type of thing.

    I guess that East Bay weed is pretty strong....
    I think you're still way off Gerry. Even though the car has low miles and even if the interior is perfect, there's no hiding the fact that the car has been back-halved, and that is major surgery. Even if it only had 1500 miles, and even though I'm sure the work was done properly, who cares because the car's been cut in half. There's still plenty of uncut, unmolested cars out there for less than 30k that are really nice. I would be shocked if this car brings anything over 15-18K, and it would take a very special buyer. I wouldn't touch that car because you'd never be able to get rid of it again.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by SG-Motorsports View Post
    I think you're still way off Gerry. Even though the car has low miles and even if the interior is perfect, there's no hiding the fact that the car has been back-halved, and that is major surgery. Even if it only had 1500 miles, and even though I'm sure the work was done properly, who cares because the car's been cut in half. There's still plenty of uncut, unmolested cars out there for less than 30k that are really nice. I would be shocked if this car brings anything over 15-18K, and it would take a very special buyer. I wouldn't touch that car because you'd never be able to get rid of it again.
    Hmmm, sounds like a perfect sample for a pristine 500TE. Except for the rear end repair, is the body and all parts untouched with very low mileage!
    (...and that body repair will be replaced anyway)
    Time to pull the hacksaw guys - it's wagon time!


    -a-
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Naah, I do think this is a mid-20s car for the right buyer. I don't think it will fetch $30 unless the seller has a very very lucky day. But I think the low miles alone will be attractive to some buyers, who know otherwise they'd be paying in the mid-30s tp $40K for the car with similar cosmetics and mileage if it didn't have a branded title and such. Cosmetically the car is in good condition. I still say it can go for ~$25 +/- K to a buyer who wants a relatively "wirgin" car. If this car could be picked up for the mid-teens, that would be a steal.

    Every time I think I've "seen it all" in terms of outrageous asking prices, I get surprised yet again. This is one of those cases where I think it's the highest asking premium I've ever seen, salvage title car or no.

    I just don't understand what the psychology of the sellers of these things is. Do they not study the market? Paying above $30K for any E500E is pretty rarified air - there just aren't that many buyers out there for those cars -- although the buyers who are out there do have the cash and are patiently waiting for the right car.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Wow and I was just thinking how crazy the dealer in Miami is for selling "my old" Salvage 500E for $16K .... this guy needs to drop that pipe

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Naah, I do think this is a mid-20s car for the right buyer. I don't think it will fetch $30 unless the seller has a very very lucky day. But I think the low miles alone will be attractive to some buyers, who know otherwise they'd be paying in the mid-30s tp $40K for the car with similar cosmetics and mileage if it didn't have a branded title and such. Cosmetically the car is in good condition. I still say it can go for ~$25 +/- K to a buyer who wants a relatively "wirgin" car. If this car could be picked up for the mid-teens, that would be a steal.

    Every time I think I've "seen it all" in terms of outrageous asking prices, I get surprised yet again. This is one of those cases where I think it's the highest asking premium I've ever seen, salvage title car or no.

    I just don't understand what the psychology of the sellers of these things is. Do they not study the market? Paying above $30K for any E500E is pretty rarified air - there just aren't that many buyers out there for those cars -- although the buyers who are out there do have the cash and are patiently waiting for the right car.
    The "right" buyer has to be one who intends to keep this car forever, though. Competing with other cars that don't have the brand on the title is a challenge, as those can be sold again at a premium provided the maintenance thing has been kept up to date. A Frankenstein car is fine provided you intend to drain the life out of it and be happy with it. The next sale will be a little more difficult, especially when that surgery comes to light.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I just don't understand what the psychology of the sellers of these things is. Do they not study the market? Paying above $30K for any E500E is pretty rarified air - there just aren't that many buyers out there for those cars
    I think the disconnect here is that we see these cars come and go, and have for years. So for us, there's perhaps not the "wow" factor that lots of people still have around the vaunted 500E -- yes, still. Both Porsche and performance Benz (courtesy of AMG) are uber hot right now, and most people still don't know they collaborated on "such a rare beast" (circus conductor voice). I mean, people OWN these cars and don't really know what they have. Others have owned 6.3s, 6.9s, 450SLCs, 280SE Cabs (you name it), yet have never even seen one of these.

    For the uninitiated, even seeing one is eye-popping, let alone a good looking and running one, let alone one with so few miles. I agree it's probably as $25k-ish car as it sits. In a few months, the car will be 25 years old and in a few years it'll be 30. And at that point, my guess is low mile, well kept 500Es will still be a "wow" item, branded title or not, provided they've been properly "restored" (is the word they'll be using then).

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 09-03-2015 at 05:09 PM.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    The thing that angers me is that the seller paid well under half (likely more like about 1/3) of what he is asking for this car. I still haven't gotten the final figure from Robert yet, but I bet it was around the high teens or $20K. And yet he's asking $58K.

    It's just greed and seemingly the guy thinks he has a huge diamond in his hand. I'd say it's more like a cubic zirconium. Which isn't bad - they're great - they just aren't diamonds.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    It also neeeddddsssss Euro headlights
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    The thing that angers me is ... It's just greed
    Yup. And greed is certainly detestable. No doubt.

    maw

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    He can ask whatever he wants, but I have a feeling he'll be holding on to it for a LONG time.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I don't see the market for this car. Someone who wants a low mileage pristine car and is prepared to pay top dollar will wait for something that hasn't had major damage and salvage title, not to mention the apparently bad paint. If someone wants a nice driver they can get one for much less than this car even if we assume it will go in the $20s. Let's also not forget that there are other very nice options out there for mid $20s. Maybe not with this low mileage but around 70kmi and very nice cosmetics, no accidents etc. should be possible. When faced with a decision between a 35kmi car with major damage history, salvage title and bad paint, or a very nice and accident-free 70kmi car, each in the mid-$20s, how many people would choose the 35kmi car? I know I wouldn't, but I guess for some people mileage is the most important thing.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    At that many miles, look at all the repairs coming his way with limited parts.
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I agree Melville.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    .
    This car is interesting from a price perspective and a market development seen around. I understand it is a different system about damaged cars in the US compared to other countries. But what is the point in categorizing cars into a "salvage group", is it based on safety?? Nah, can't be, because they are still fully road legal, and if it is road legal it cannot have any influence in a given situation where a salvage titled car is involved in a traffic accident, and even be the root cause. Carfax is a good thing and records any damage/repair, so to my understanding is a salvage title nothing else than a financial motive in the car market.

    The one dark mark is that the car was hit in a parking lot once under the watch of a previous owner. Taking an extreme route through insurance, the car was marked as salvage though it was not only fixable, but driveable from the incident. The good news is that when purchased again it was given an amazing replacement of the entire rear end at the weld points of the actual factory. In other words, the new owner took the back part of another 500 E and welded it together the way the factory would have originally. We had this checked by a third party shop who can give a non-partisan view of the car overall and this issue to an interested buyer.

    The asking price is of course way off, but it is in fact a bid at 40k on eBay ATM, so someone is willing to pay good for this car. I wonder what that replacement of "the entire rear end" really includes since someone is willing pay twice as much as indicated in the ongoing discussion. And it would be nice to see "all the other" low mileage cars out there that peps are mentioning, are they really material? AFAIK they rarely show up. Supposed the repair is well done and fully documented, prolly with bad paint yes, anyway it is no reason to make up ghosts. Based on the numbers of rust buckets and badly wrenched samples I have seen for sale in the US, even to a 1/4 of the price this car may bring, I would better pay up for this one - and then I would know what has been done with it. Just think about the minimal mechanical wear and interior wear, it can be driven for 4 years until the GVZ 5K deferred maintenance even partly take effect.

    I don't defend the asking price on this car, but I think the mindset about the salvage title on this particular sample is twofolded. In 7 years when the first 500E pass the 30 year limit, the price will elevate fast in the US on the good samples. We already see it in Europe, the market segregates fast, while the number of cars is reduced dramatically year by year. So, I think it is now or never in some cases.

    Just my 2 cents.

    -a-
    Last edited by 500AMM; 09-06-2015 at 01:59 PM.
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    I might question the one bid on the car.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Arnt, a good discussion. I'm going to copy it to another "new" thread in the Off-Topic area.

    I think here in the US a "salvage" title black-mark is mainly a mental/emotional thing .. a perception of bad karma in many cases rather than actual bad karma.

    However, it all depends on the nature and location of the damage. I am seeing tons of cars get salvage titles simply for having a bumper hit and busted -- absolutely no panel/trunk/hood/grill/fender damage -- only the bumper. We're talking $1,000-$2,000 worth of damage for a new bumper replacement, and the vehicle is getting a branded title. Hail damage is another situation where the damage is 100% cosmetic, rather than mechanical, but cars get totaled out for this.

    Other times, there's an issue with flood damage, or a major accident, or such where there's structural/frame or major body damage. Of course in those situations a salvage title is usually always warranted.

    What's happened is that the insurance companies have become over-eager to assign salvage titles to many cars that really don't need it. The motivations for doing this are probably many and complex, and I probably don't even understand all of them. A lot of it relates to getting new business at a higher price (insuring newer vehicles vs. older ones); laziness and ignorance on the part of insurance adjusters and estimators; and probably a desire to "close the books" as quickly as possible on things so they can move on.

    I have absolutely NO issue buying salvage title cars, as long as I know intimately (and can see documented proof) of the damage to the vehicle. And I can see photographic evidence of the damage. I have owned 3-4 salvage title vehicles and never had a single problem with any of them. In most cases it was a simple bumper hit with no panel damage, so the car kept its original panels.

    As long as you go into a salvage title situation with your eyes open, with a seller who is trustworthy, and with good documentation of why the brand is on the title, there is no issue whatsoever with a salvage title. I also have not had problems selling salvage title vehicles as long as the price is right and the history (and repair) is more or less described/documented. Basically passing on any and all information that I learned when I acquired the vehicle.

    In my view, buying an otherwise excellent vehicle with a salvage title, which has been properly repaired, is an EXCELLENT way to save significant money over a non-salvage car for a car that is in equal or otherwise better mechanical or cosmetic condition.

    My issue here with this car is not the fact that it has a salvage title. It's with the fact that the seller has probably the most egregious case of greediness that I've yet to see in 10+ years of watching the market of these cars.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Black/Black, 35kmi, $58,000 (Alamo, CA) - Salvage title

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    My issue here with this car is not the fact that it has a salvage title. It's with the fact that the seller has probably the most egregious case of greediness that I've yet to see in 10+ years of watching the market of these cars.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    I don't see this as greed, just an overpriced car and we see that everyday across most all brands.

    If this car really was worth the asking price, in my mind it would be smart buying and selling. But maybe I see it like that because I have bought and then sold motorcycles, cars and homes for 2-3x what I paid for them ?
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