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Thread: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

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    R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...oduced/4687866

    Owner claims his car being a SL 73 AMG. But the 4 images i received from him show differently.

    a.jpgb.jpgc.jpgk.jpg

    Very rare car.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    There is much confusion about these engines around. Alot of figures are made by wild guessings and assumptions. Fueld by "experts" ...
    According to the parts lists of amg, the 72 and 73 have the same bore and stroke. The 7.0 was available as lh and me engine. The 7.2 and later called 7.3 (with the same bore and stroke) only as me. As just written in the German exotenforum, the car there is not a 7.2 it's a 7.0 as written in the documents.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, W230

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    The 7.0 has a 91 x 90,4 mm bore and stroke [7055.41 cc]
    The 7,3 has a 91,5 x 92.4 mm bore and stroke [7290.96 cc]

    The 7,0 (7055 cm3) had two versions. At first (regarding timeline ) the M120.980/981 E72. Producing 386 kW/525 PS and 740 Nm.
    And second the M120.982/983 E70. Producing 365 kW/496 PS and 720 Nm.

    I have some copies of Fahrzeugpapiere where the 7,0 engine has indeed the two kW (386 and 365) versions 'eingetragen'. While the displacement in those two versions is on both occasions 7055 cm3

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    91mm bore x 92.4mm stroke would be 7211.50 cc, if they ever built one...

    I found this info in my archives... not sure how accurate the info is:
    ============================================
    6.0L (5,987cc) = 89.0 x 80.2 (stock SL600)
    7.0L (6,947cc) = 90.0 x 91.0 (RENNtech SL70)
    7.4L (7,414cc) = 91.0 x 95.0 (RENNtech SL74)



    UPDATE FEB-2017: New info from this thread summarized below:

    M120 Displacement -- Bore x Stroke:
    ===================================

    6.0L (5,987cc) = 89.0 x 80.2 (stock SL600)
    7.0L (7,055cc) = 91.0 x 90.4 (AMG SL70/SL72, LH+ME)
    7.3L (7,291cc) = 91.5 x 92.4 (AMG SL73, ME only)
    AMG Note 1: Some 7.0L were badged SL72, these are 7.0L engines with higher power output than the SL70 of same displacement.
    AMG Note 2: Photos/decals indicate an AMG S72/SL72 was 7,055cc and 525ps/740Nm. See post #46 below.
    AMG Note 3: AMG apparently only used 2 different crankshafts / stroke for the 7.x engines.

    7.0L (6,947cc) = 90.0 x 91.0 (RENNtech SL70)
    7.4L (7,414cc) = 91.0 x 95.0 (RENNtech SL74)
    7.6L (7,XXXcc) = 9x.x x 9x.x (RENNtech custom one-off SL76 - Merc Enthusiast, March 2003, 497rwhp)
    RENNtech note: RENNtech apparently used different / custom crankshafts, not AMG cranks.

    6.9L (6,871cc) = 90.0 x 90.0 (Brabus 6.9, rated 509ps/705Nm or 540ps/715Nm)
    7.3L (7,258cc) = 91.0 x 93.0 (Brabus 7.3, rated 530ps/754Nm or 582ps/772Nm)
    7.4L (7,370cc) = 91.7 x 93.0 (Brabus 7.4S, rated 620ps/800Nm)

    6.9L (6,898cc) = 89.0 x 92.4 (AMG CLK-GTR, Bosch HMS-6, 631ps)
    7.3L (7,291cc) = 91.5 x 92.4 (AMG CLK-GTR, Bosch HMS-6, 664ps)
    CLK GTR note: Engine block is not the same as production M120. (?)




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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    image97062.jpgimage97063.jpg

    The left engine being a M120.980/981. The right M120.982/983.
    980 and 982 for W/C140. 981 and 983 for R129.

    That is what i read. If it is correct? I don't know.

    I read more different displacement figures. Like 7010 and 7180 cm3.
    11987034_906856009395296_777456219801810016_n.jpg12003350_1486256808366656_5687988302817434028_n.jpg

    I rather trust an image that came from the AMG website, some years ago.

    12002284_1486228591702811_5595188424318247972_n.jpg

    And that says 7055 cm3.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Copies of Fahrzeugpapiere. Left 7055 and 365 kW. Right 7055 and 386 kW.

    Bilder_002.jpg200zqco.jpg

    And here 7291 and 386 kW.

    19.jpg

    All these data, and some engine stickers like the one in my first post, made me convinced the M120 E70 and the M120 E72 are in fact the same engine. That is, if i stick to the figures. I mean, equal displacement but different kW and Nm.

    First there was the E72, then the E70. And last the E73. Which in fact is a M297. And not a M120.

    However, some documents and images still refer to M120.983 when the 7,3 engine is meant.
    But that must be because the VIN leads to SL 600. And the 7,3 is at some later stage put in.

    Confusing stuff. Like what about M120.990? I have seen that in SL 73 AMG car registration. And at the same time M120.983.

    Like i said. Confusing.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Confusing. Because i still do not know for certain, why the M120 E72 is called E72. Most likely is displacement. Like M120 E70 is 7055 cm3. Seems pretty accurate.

    But 7,2 !! Where does that come from?

    Maybe it deals in some sort of way with the W202 C 36 AMG. And the M104 E36 engine. The C 36 AMG was the first AMG model when being official Mercedes-Benz partner. The W202 C 36 was the top of the cheapest modelrange at the time. So why not call the top of the most expensive modelrange at the time - W/C140 and R129 - twice that figure? 2 x 36 = 72.

    Or is it just my imagination running away with me? Great song. I prefer the Stones version.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    To my knowledge, AMG has only ever reported two different V12 R129 cars: (1) the SL 70 AMG at 7055 cubic cm (97.0 x 92.0); and (2) the SL 73 AMG at 7291 cubic cm (80.2 x 92.4). And those are the only two configurations they've ever reported for the M120 engine in any car, R129, C140, or W140 -- and they put them both in each chassis. Although curiously, when they report on the S73 -- "A Bold Giant" as they call it, they show the Displacement and Bore x Stroke as "Unknown." Go figure.

    But everywhere else it's consistent -- the 70 designation is a 7055 cubic cm M120, and the 73 designation is a 7291 cubic cm M120.

    maw
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by maw1124; 09-16-2015 at 04:56 PM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    To my knowledge, AMG has only ever reported two different V12 R129 cars: (1) the SL 70 AMG at 7055 cubic cm (97.0 x 92.0); and (2) the SL 73 AMG at 7291 cubic cm (80.2 x 92.4).
    MAW, where did you get those bore/stroke numbers? They add up to very different displacements via calculator, assuming (bore x stroke):

    7055 cubic cm (97.0 x 92.0) = 8173 cc <-- damn, an 8.2L M120 would be badass!
    7291 cubic cm (80.2 x 92.4) = 5601 cc


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    MAW, where did you get those bore/stroke numbers? They add up to very different displacements via calculator, assuming (bore x stroke):

    7055 cubic cm (97.0 x 92.0) = 8173 cc <-- damn, an 8.2L M120 would be badass!
    7291 cubic cm (80.2 x 92.4) = 5601 cc

    That same AMG 45 book... I knew you'd check the math, which is why I threw it up there.

    But I'm not sure that's the right math. Multiplying two numbers produces a squared number. It takes multiplying three numbers to produce a cubic number. When I walk through AMG 45, multiplying bore x stroke NEVER nets the number they report for cubic displacement.

    For example, on the E60 W124 car, they report a bore of 100.0, a stroke of 94.8, and a total displacement of 5956 cm3. And we all know 100 x 94.8 is 9480, not 5956. I think you need some other number. Isn't the bore a diameter number? That doesn't tell you the area of the cylinder circle, just the diameter of it.

    So using Area = pi x Diameter can get you the area of the cylinder circle. Multiplying that by the stroke can get you the volume of that cylinder. Multiplying that by the number of cylinders will get you total displacement. I've confirmed that math on the E60 M119 engine -- each cylinder has a volume of roughly 7.44, which multiplied by 8 cylinders (V8) gets you roughly 5,956 cm3. I'd expect that math to hold for the V12s as well.

    Here you go... http://www.onlineconversion.com/obje...inder_tank.htm

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 09-16-2015 at 05:24 PM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Sorry, I should have provided the formula - and you are correct, btw:

    (((bore/2) squared) x pi) x stroke x number of cylinders x 0.001 = cc


    Example with 91.5 bore x 92.4 stroke:
    91.5/2 = 45.75
    45.75 x 45.75 = 2093.0625
    2093.0625 x 3.14159 = 6,575.544219375
    6,575.544219375 x 92.4 = 607,580.28587025
    607,580.28587025 x 12 = 7,290,963.430443
    7,290,963.430443 x 0.001 = 7,290.963430443

    7,290.963430443 rounds to 7291 cc (about 7.3L).


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I will post some more details later from the office.

    Bore of 7.0 is 91mm
    Bore of 7.2/7.3 is 91.5mm

    7.0 was available as lh and me engine
    7.2/7.3 only me

    The often seen 7.2 badge is listed in the 7.3 parts list as well there is a special 7.2 intake manifold cover used for some models delivered to Brunei.

    In the 7.0 lh and me are different type of cams installed.
    All versions use the same head gaskets.

    The differentiation of 7.2 and 7.3 was due to the fact that a 7.3 was officially available in the SL chassis, the 7.2 was the unofficial version available for different chassis such as also w and c 140 before the official sl73 was introduced.

    Here some pages of the official parts list
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rouven036; 09-16-2015 at 11:25 PM.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, W230

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Sorry, I should have provided the formula - and you are correct, btw:

    (((bore/2) squared) x pi) x stroke x number of cylinders x 0.001 = cc


    Example with 91.5 bore x 92.4 stroke:
    91.5/2 = 45.75
    45.75 x 45.75 = 2093.0625
    2093.0625 x 3.14159 = 6,575.544219375
    6,575.544219375 x 92.4 = 607,580.28587025
    607,580.28587025 x 12 = 7,290,963.430443
    7,290,963.430443 x 0.001 = 7,290.963430443

    7,290.963430443 rounds to 7291 cc (about 7.3L).

    Math aside, it still doesn't make sense that the 73 has such a smaller reported bore than the 70, when the strokes are roughly the same and they both have 12 cylinders. Part of the reason for my confusion on some of this, is the inconsistencies in AMG's own reporting of this stuff.

    The 80.2 x 92.4 reported for the SL73 was apparently a typo or just plain wrong. For the CL73 and the CLK GTR 7.3 car, both with 7291 cubic cm, they report 91.5 x 92.4, as GSXR indicates. Which calls me to question the 97.0 x 92.0 they report for the 70 series cars. It just can't be true -- math doesn't lie. Pun intended.

    As I look at the way these numbers are reported in the various models, I'd bet the SL70 was a 90.0 x 92.4. That is, the "80.2" was a typo, and reported for the wrong model. There was a second V12 CLK GTR 6.9 car, which had 6898 cubic cm, 89.0 x 92.4. That tells me ALL of the V12s had a 92.4 stroke, and only the bore diameter changed, which makes some business manufacturing sense (same block). The CLK GTR 6.9 had an 89.0 bore; the SL, CL and S 70 cars had a 90.0 bore; and the CLK GTR, SL, CL and S 73 cars had a 91.5 bore.

    Are there pistons to support a bore between 90.0 and 91.5 in your "unofficial" parts lists? I think that's the only way you get an AMG V12 72 car. A 91.0 bore would get you 7212 cubic cm.

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 09-17-2015 at 01:35 AM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by Rouven036 View Post
    Bore of 7.0 is 91mm
    By my math, a 90 bore would be for a 7.0; a 91 bore would be for a 7.2 -- assuming both had a stroke of 92.4, which seems a fairly safe assumption.

    maw

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    When calculating the displacement i use the formula 0.785 (¼ pi ) x bore x bore x the number of cylinders x stroke = (roughly) displacement.

    If 7.2 = 7.3 why does 7055 then have two kW versions? Like i showed on car registration papers.

    Like here.

    a.jpg

    And in this car document even AMG M120 7.2 is named when refering to 7055 cc and 386 kW.

    Naamloos.jpg
    Last edited by weide1; 09-17-2015 at 02:49 AM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Naamloos.jpg
    Naamloos.jpgNaamloos.jpg

    All 92,4 mm stroke.

    By my math, a 90 bore would be for a 7.0; a 91 bore would be for a 7.2 -- assuming both had a stroke of 92.4, which seems a fairly safe assumption.
    This could indeed make sense. That 92,4 crankshaft comes from the dieselengines. Proven reliability with higher torque. And with higher rev engines like the M104.941.

    Naamloos.jpg

    91 bore and 92,4 stroke. 3606 cc. Multiply makes 7212.

    Is the M120 E72 twice a M104 E36?

    If so, what about the car registration papers then?
    I still read 7055 and 365 kW and 7055 and 386 kW. I still read M120 7.2 in one of those car documents.
    Last edited by weide1; 09-17-2015 at 03:39 AM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I can't solve your puzzle, but engine management could produce different output from the same displacement. AMG has numerous examples of the same engine with different output. When I'm back to the book, I'll provide a couple. I also cannot comment on the papers.

    Cheers,

    maw

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    I can't solve your puzzle, but engine management could produce different output from the same displacement. AMG has numerous examples of the same engine with different output. When I'm back to the book, I'll provide a couple.
    Yes - different engine management, different camshafts, different head porting, different compression ratios... etc, etc.

    The important thing, IMO, is the actual bore & stroke numbers. There seem to be an awful lot of different numbers which seems odd to me. The M119 only has 2 crankshafts available (MB 94.8, and Brabus 100, AFAIK) and the bore varied from 100-102mm depending on the tuner. Were there really that many custom cranks produced for the M120?

    90.4
    91.0
    92.0
    92.4
    95.0

    I think MAW is on to something where there were probably only 2 different cranks from AMG, with varying bore diameters. Harder to say what RENNtech or other tuners did. Magazine articles say RENNtech had a "custom billet 95mm crankshaft", which would help solve the mystery, if true.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I think there were only two AMG variants -- 70 and 73. The CLK GTR cars I looked at for reference only, as they were a different block. But I found it not a coincidence that they all used a 92.4 stroke. So I think you only had 2 different bore sizes from them, 90.0 and 91.5. Consistency with the M119 points to an internal policy -- you have to keep some limits on the science projects.

    Might they have toyed with a 92 bore and deemed it too risky? Sure. Might someone have taken a 90 bore and fiddled with it? Sure. Might an aftermarket tuner have done something that they could sell but that might fail under pressure? Sure.

    But I think only 2 passed MB AMG's tests -- the 70 and the 73. And those tests, the discretion and care and engineering budget they entail, is the only thing worth buying for my money.

    And for all we know, what's in the system as a 72 is what was BADGED the 73, just like today's 6.3's are nothing more than a marketer's pipe dream.

    Cheers,

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 09-17-2015 at 09:41 AM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    That's what I've said further up already. There's the 7.0 an& 7.2/3.
    Bore on the 7.0 is 91mm,on the 7.2/3 91.5mm.
    Since I had to work on two of these engines I have the complete parts list from AMG with all specific part numbers. The crank of the 7.0 is different in stroke than the 7.2/3. Further are the rods of the 7.2/3 made out of titanium alloy.
    7.0s are rated 496hp
    7.2/3 are rated 525hp, for the royal family of Brunei was a special version with 565hp made.

    To make a correct statement about the installed version it is absolutely mandatory to get the amg engine number stamped in on the side of the block. There you will find also find a clear identification of the engine capacity.
    Last edited by Rouven036; 09-17-2015 at 10:02 AM.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, W230

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    So, if all 7.2/3 have the same 91.5mm bore and 92.4mm stroke, the displacement is 7291cc, which I could consider 7.3L. Odd that AMG considered this a "72".

    Unless they actually built some with 91.0mm bore & 92.4mm stroke, which would work out to 7211cc as mentioned earlier in the thread.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Yes. Only info to this is that all 72 stuff is listed in the 73 list and it's only cosmetics like the 7.2 engine badge or a specific Brunei 7.2 intake manifold cover.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, W230

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Funny, below is a quote from the AMG Private Lounge...

    "Dear AMG Private Lounge members,

    For today’s Throwback Thursday we go back to 1999. Just before the turn of the century, Mercedes-AMG presented the SL 73 AMG, undoubtedly the leader in the small, exclusive segment of open super sports car. With a performance output of 386 kW, the vehicle accelerated from 0 to 100 km/h in just 4.8 seconds.

    Even today the AMG 7.3 liter V12 engine continues to impress: a stroke of 80.2 millimeters and a cylinder bore of 92.4 milimeteres delivering a volume of 7,291 cubic centimeters. But despite its emphasis on speed, the SL 73 AMG stunned customers with its litheness and – of course – its typical Mercedes-Benz style sporting AMG styling at the front, sides and rear, plus the 18-inch lightweight alloy AMG wheels.

    Let it also be noted that to this very day, the SL was the only vehicle among competitors of its era to be equipped with an automatically extending roll bar that offered open-air driving with optimal safety.

    Enjoy our selection of SL 73 AMG bliss!

    Best regards,
    Your AMG Private Lounge Team
    "

    At least they're consistent...

    I think we've beaten this horse to death.

    maw

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    80.2 mm was the stroke on the stock 6.0L engine. Someone really screwed up bigtime...


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Incorrect statement. Sorry to say, but the guys which are doing the online stuff aren't the engineers...
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, W230

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I still have my doubts. Because i have collected information on two cars, that have both the E72 sticker as well as the 7055 cc in the car documentation. And one even a stamped 7.2 engine number.

    38794384030_large.jpg38794384034_large.jpg38794384031_large.jpg

    This car by the way.

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/387943...photo-gallery/

    And the other is the white one from Tino Zovko.

    0213683466014.jpgIMG_1682-500x500.JPG

    To me a match of car registration documents and details on the engine, prove that a 7,2 liter is a 7055 cc.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    here is an AMG 7.2L engine for sale on ebay

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/252249574102

    I have 1992 Mercedes W140 AMG m120 7.2L for sale 22k miles. let me know if you have any questions
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by Arman View Post
    here is an AMG 7.2L engine for sale on ebay

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/252249574102
    Nice find. Seller has zero feedback, so I'd be careful. Maybe the seller can provide a photo of the AMG engine block / transmission stampings?


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by Arman View Post
    here is an AMG 7.2L engine for sale on ebay

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/252249574102

    So are you the seller??? eBay seller name: arma_aru


    If so can you post some more pictures, specifically the AMG stampings gsxr has mentioned?


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Yes, and if the donor car is available, there should be AMG decals on the car somewhere indicating the displacement, power rating, etc. If it's really a 7.2L, I'm sure someone here would want it.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    https://www.facebook.com/17909846550...type=3&theater

    Watch the stamped AMG 0067 7.0.

    That proves it to be genuine.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Hi all,

    Am trying to figure out whether this is a SL70 or 72.

    Also, seems like car left Daimler as a SL600 and was customized by AMG Japan (is there one there)?

    Would appreciate any thoughts.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I would say SL 70. But to become really sure, ask owner to provide engine stamp. Something like this.

    image1.jpeg

    Or ask amg-technik@daimler.com or TECHN-ASSISTANCE@MERCEDES-AMG.COM.

    I have seen this WDB1290761F134374 for sale some year ago.

    o.jpg
    p.jpg
    Last edited by weide1; 11-05-2016 at 03:35 PM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Another image that relates 7055 ccm displacement to AMG 7.2.

    a.jpg

    And it probably is this car from 1995. Since i found it here. http://www.nakamuraengineering.com/entry_machine/ 5th row from above. Most right. Adding that to reading nakamuraengineering in the first image. One and one makes two. Right?

    S600C 7.2 AMG 1995.jpg

    Or is this circumstantial evidence?

    Second, click other makes for several maintenance reports of a Hammer C124. Where here i read there were 29 Hammer Coupes made. http://www.nakamuraengineering.com/r...0081115-10611/ First line:

    AMGファクトリー 世界限定29台  6.0ハンマー CEワイドボデー

    translated into: AMG factory world limited 29 units 6.0 hammer CE wide body.

    Mostly i read 12. Just like here.

    35bdnhi.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    I found these pictures in w140forum.de. Engine was described as Brabus 7.4s. Author of photos is "Bernard 6.9".

    Forum doesn't support multiple attachment upload, so i must use postimg

    http://www.w140forum.de/showthread.p...s-7-4-S-Motors




































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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG




































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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    2.jpg

    Bore 91,70 mm, Stroke 93 mm, exactly 7370 ccm.

    Brabus 7.4S:
    456kw / 620ps / 612hp
    800Nm / 590 lb-ft

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Thanks for the info everyone! I updated my summary back in post #4.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Naamloos.jpg

    Brabus 6.9 = 90 x 90 mm.

    aa.jpg

    Brabus 7.3 = 91 x 93 mm

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    And i found this Lotec Bausatz in my archive too. Bore and stroke 90 x 90.4 mm.

    Naamloos.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    And then there is this Lotec 90 x 92.2 mm = 7038 ccm according to this Fahrzeugbrief. With also 348 kW at 5200 tpm.
    Naamloos.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    Brabus 6.9 = 90 x 90 mm.
    Brabus 7.3 = 91 x 93 mm
    Some of the cc's are not matching from other sources. I wonder which are correct.

    I had seen a Brabus 6.9L as 6,866cc (unknown bore/stroke). The one above shows 6,871 (which matches 90x90 bore/stroke). This may simply be a rounding error; if the value of pi is only 3.14 the maths work out to 6867cc (4cc less than if 3.14159 is used for pi).

    For the 7.3... looks like the same thing. Pi at 3.14 = 7255cc, pi at 3.14159 = 7258cc.

    Thanks for the info, I will update my notes!


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    This is by the way that rare Lotec 7038 ccm car. With 90 x 92.2 mm bore and stroke.

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/de...3&pageNumber=1

    And second, i use 3,141592 for pi.

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  78. #46
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Today i had the VIN of this car checked by AMG After Sales Maria Winkler.

    https://www.classicdriver.com/de/car...sl/1995/439563

    A genuine SL 72 AMG. But more important to me, Maria sent me this document.

    a.jpg

    Compare it with this.

    Naamloos.jpg

    Conclusion, a 7.0 and a 7.2 have exact the same bore and stroke.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Good afternoon Gentlemen,

    I'll start by confessing I'm a bit of an imposter. I don't actually own a 500E, though I've been lucky enough to drive and admire one which belonged to a good friend of mine. That car was very recently sold to Rowan Atkinson of Mr Bean fame.

    I'm here because I found this thread whilst searching Google for info on the SL73 AMG.

    I've just purchased a Sultan of Brunei RHD SL73 AMG with very low miles. The car was sourced in Brunei and is currently on a boat heading toward these shores. It's been sitting unloved for a long time and will need work to get it up and running again.

    For weeks now I've been researching these cars and their history. I've never come across a car which has so much conflicting information. The story around the Sultans cars make it all the more complex but also all the more interesting!

    Your research regarding the engines is fascinating. Until now everything I've read tells me the SL70 was the 'base' model and the 72 and 73 were effectively the same car with a badge change around 1995.


    Does anyone have information relating to how many of these cars were made? I've read a total of 85, of which 35 were SL72 and 50 were SL73. But the info on here re the engines would seem to blow that theory apart.

    To confuse matters even more, the Sultan of Brunei cars are sometimes referred to as SL730 and have a more powerful engine fitted (565bhp). Are these included within the numbers above?

    The Sultan apparently ordered somewhere between 25 and 52 SL73's/SL730's with the more powerful engine, but I only know of two and another two which are called Argento and have been butchered with nasty Honda concept car bodywork. All of these are RHD.

    Personally I don't think the numbers are correct. I believe the confusion comes about as he owned between 25 and 52 Mercedes with that specific engine, not all of which are SL73's. Certainly he ordered ten S Class estates with this engine.

    Would love to hear any other info you guys can provide.

    Thanks,

    Chris
    Last edited by 89speedster; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:02 AM.

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  82. #48
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Confusing and conflicting information? Or do more versions exist that i know of?

    Up till now i thought a 7055 ccm M120 AMG engine comes in 2 versions. A 7.2 LH version with 386 kW. Called M120 E 72.
    And a 7.0 ME version with 365 kW. Called M120 E 70.
    Check my posts and images above.

    But these two examples below show otherwise.

    LH M120 7055 ccm with 4 speed auto transmission* but with 365 kW.

    CIMG3480.jpg

    CIMG3483.jpg

    ME M120 7055 ccm with 5 speed auto transmission but with 386 kW.

    ch1_7256.JPG

    a.jpg

    * confirmed by AMG Aftersales that M120 LH versions go with 4 speed auto transmission whereas M120 ME versions go with 5 speed auto transmission.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    And then there is this case for me, where i am still not 100 % certain of. Is the above image a ME version? And the second one a LH version?

    Since that information is by which i pull my conclusions. Together with the information whether a certain vehicle, that i try to get the specifications from, has a 4 or 5 speed auto transmission.

    image98940.jpg

    image98939.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    And then there is this case for me, where i am still not 100 % certain of. Is the above image a ME version? And the second one a LH version?

    Since that information is by which i pull my conclusions. Together with the information whether a certain vehicle, that i try to get the specifications from, has a 4 or 5 speed auto transmission.
    Yes, the top engine must have ME since it has coil packs, the bottom engine must be LH... the M120 never used any systems besides ME (coil pack) and LH (distributors), AFAIK.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    In order to provide the number of cars that were made, I am sorry Chris(89speedster). But i do not have such specific information. Numbers of how many were made is also less important to me. I try to get the engine specifications. Is already as hard as it is!

    Further, I only have this VIN of a Brunei SL 730. WDB1290762F158532. And some images. Also from when it was offered in the UK.

    Conclusion, since you tell you know of 2 Brunei SL 730 versions, it is more likely you provide us - or at least me - of that information. Would be helpful. And appreciated over here.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    What I can tell you is that the Sultan of Brunei never purchased anything like 50, SL73. He ordered approximately 50 Mercedes Benz with the higher output 565bhp engine, but they were fitted to a variety of models including his S Class Kombi's.

    He did buy a lot of standard SL600 though, Perhaps people have assumed these were all converted to SL73 spec.

    Actually, only four SOB SL73 are known. Two were butchered and used as the base for his Argento concept, one is in the UK and the other is heading to the UK now. All of these are RHD.

    I have been collating chassis numbers (17 so far). The three earliest cars are all four speed 'SL72' and these are the only 72's that appear on the list. There is then a gap of approx. 1 year before the first SL70 was delivered in late 95 and the first SL73 late 96.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by 89speedster; 1 Week Ago at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    And then there is this case for me, where i am still not 100 % certain of. Is the above image a ME version? And the second one a LH version?

    Since that information is by which i pull my conclusions. Together with the information whether a certain vehicle, that i try to get the specifications from, has a 4 or 5 speed auto transmission.

    image98940.jpg

    image98939.jpg
    An LH engine means the car is an SL72 with a 4 speed box. These are the earliest of the 70/72/73 cars. I'm not sure how AMG named these cars back then. I don't think it was SL72 as there are very few references to this name anywhere, but would be happy to be proved wrong.

    An ME engine could be either an SL70 or SL73 with 5 speed box.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Resuming. AFAIK this moment.

    7055 ccm LH and 4 speed with 365 kW.
    7055 ccm ME and 5 speed with 365 kW.
    7055 ccm ME and 5 speed with 386 kW.

    And then there is still the M120 E 72 - with also 7055 ccm displacement. How does that one fit in?

    7055 ccm LH and 4 speed with 386 kW.

    Is there also a M120 E 72 ME 5 speed version? See link. 386 kW. ME version. Five speed auto. But 7.2 engine stamped number.

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...12-1996-a.html

    And to make it even more confusing.

    M120.980/981 is LH. M120.982/983 is ME.
    But i read 982 and i read 7.2.

    4.jpg

    But i see this. Are those coil packs? Coil packs would make it ME. And would make it 7.2 ME.

    1.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    This is how I see it...

    SL72 AMG 7,055cc (Distributor/LH only) Engine designation is M120.981 525bhp / 4 Speed
    SL70 AMG 7,055cc (Coil Packs/ME only) Engine designation is M120.983 489bhp / 5 Speed
    SL73 AMG 7,291cc (Coil Packs/ME only) Engine designation is M120.983 525bhp / 5 Speed

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post

    Are those coil packs? Coil packs would make it ME. And would make it 7.2 ME.

    1.jpg
    That is an LE/distributor engine which would make that an SL72 with an M120.981 engine number.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Maybe there is a difference in engine kW and Nm output between 980 and 981 and between 982 and 983? Between W/C140 - 980(LH) or(982(ME) and R129 - 981(LH) or 983(ME).

    Or maybe some of my collected documents are wrong. Like this one. Engine stamp 7.2 but displacement 7298 ccm!

    image1.jpeg
    IMG_2161.jpg

    Or this document. 7180 ccm displacement.

    194.88.148.41.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    I think all the confusion surrounding these engines means that a lot of SL70's and 72's are being badged as 73's.

    For example, the VIN number in your document above has an engine number M120.981 which would make it an SL72, but that very car was sold at a Coys auction in 2015 and was described as a SL73

    http://www.coys.co.uk/cars/1996-merc...-examples-made

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    That very car is the openingpost in this topic.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    That very car is the openingpost in this topic.
    Ahhh! Thank you.

    A bit scary that an outfit like Coys is misdescribing their auction entries. Proves just how careful you have to be when buying these cars.

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