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Thread: OWNER - JC220

  1. #301
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Remember though, that the damping/springing action in the rear is from the accumulators (spheres), NOT the hydro-legs. Basically the rear hydro-legs are large pressure reservoirs for the SLS juice.
    I respectfully differ with you on that semantic / technical point, Honch. The internals of the struts do what is generally thought of as the "damping" (force resistance/resonance tuning/energy dissipation) by way of fully submersed plate valve stacks just like in any conventional MB/Bilstein type pressurized tube shock. It ISN'T just a big piston, as many think, and as so many people that should know better have written, including MB's own tech literature and press people. Other than that, I agree with everything you said there.
    And if the Sachs units also have the .036 (and.034 Sportline, if we're splitting hairs) specific internal rebound/anti-roll springs, then I'd bet they are essentially identical to the MB supplied parts. That would be easy enough to tell, because if they don't have the springs, then they will extend to a significantly greater length than the originals when only using hand force. The last set of Sachs aftermarkets that I had my hands on only extended as much as the originals did, confirming the inclusion of the springs, but that was about 10 years ago...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I just went and looked again at Gerry's fantastic How-To on the rear struts, and I did notice that his Sachs replacements also had the big white "9" displayed on them. That is an MB OEM identifier for older shocks and struts. It "translates" as "9 white stripes" in the identification tables in the old "Technical Data Manuals" Miss the hell out of those...
    Those Sachs units that Honch has in the pictures ARE OEM, just without the MB label and part number. IIRC, the ones I did 10 years ago also had the white 9.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Klink, the only reason I suspected otherwise, was because the OE MB was a different Sachs part number (102-256) than the aftermarket Sachs (102-503).

    Now, if the current / newest OE MB are also 102-503 then I'd say they are likely identical, and MB/Sachs updated them slightly at some point in the past 25 years.

    I don't have any good photos of recent 124-320-42-13 for comparison. Note the "white number 9" only appears on the old OE units; the aftermarket Sachs have blue labels, no sign of the White Nine...


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  7. #304
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Klink, the only reason I suspected otherwise, was because the OE MB was a different Sachs part number (102-256) than the aftermarket Sachs (102-503).

    Now, if the current / newest OE MB are also 102-503 then I'd say they are likely identical, and MB/Sachs updated them slightly at some point in the past 25 years.

    I don't have any good photos of recent 124-320-42-13 for comparison. Note the "white number 9" only appears on the old OE units; the aftermarket Sachs have blue labels, no sign of the White Nine...

    A comparison of the extended lengths would be telling, and/or having a new set of OE/dealer struts to look at.
    indeed...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  8. #305
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    A comparison of the extended lengths would be telling, and/or having a new set of OE/dealer struts to look at.
    indeed...
    I haven't installed my new OE SLS struts yet. 2015 build date per the boxes. The white 9 is on them. Let me know if you want pictures. Compressed is 47 cm. Extended is 51.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    About 10 years ago I had a C230K that suffered from a broken spring that didn't look anywhere near as rusty (if that is rust and not some badly deteriorating outer coating of some kind) If it's rust, are these springs still ok to use? and if so, for how long? Is there a way to test them in order to measure their remaining useful life? Inquiring minds want to know . . .

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by vatc5637 View Post
    About 10 years ago I had a C230K that suffered from a broken spring that didn't look anywhere near as rusty (if that is rust and not some badly deteriorating outer coating of some kind) If it's rust, are these springs still ok to use? and if so, for how long? Is there a way to test them in order to measure their remaining useful life? Inquiring minds want to know . . .
    All springs look like that here don't worry! U.K climate does that.

    This winter I will be stripping the suspension out for full cleaning / painting so that will be taken care of without harming the springs. I do this to all my restored cars anyway. Have them pro soda blasted at low pressure then urethane primed and painted with 2k paint and flex additive. Powdercoat is not go for springs due to the heat involved.

    This car will never see wet winter roads so the springs should have a long service life after that as will the car hopefully

    As you can see the shocks look rusty but they ain't- it's just dirt. They will wash up. When I have them out this winter I will post detailed pictures and take measurements etc for gsxr and you all. I am curious too what separates this ultra rare suspension with regular E500 stuff.

    They must be shorter and as Gsxr says- firmer shock / hydro valving rates. Alls I know is I'm still in shock that I have a set on the E500!

    BTW I found a thread earlier where someone tried to buy E60 suspension stuff and it was confirmed NLA by MB in 2010. So I be looking after this set for sure! Here it is-

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521
    Last edited by JC220; 06-05-2016 at 06:25 AM.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by Melville View Post
    Let me know if you want pictures. Compressed is 47 cm. Extended is 51.
    Sure. Whenever it is convenient. Any identifying marks, labels, etc. may prove helpful.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Is there anyway to find out what bump pads would have been fitted to an E60? Sort of like the AMG install guide for the fender spacers etc on w124's? 1 bump pads seem extreme.

    It would be good to know (if at all possible) what should be in there with this suspension.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Joe, that suspension has done more than 20k but should still be in good condition. Its probably done more like 50k at least. I think we got the car on 120,000km, what is the car showing now?

    Told you it had AMG suspension mate as per the original eBay add that I write, the car sat lower and handed miles better than my uncles 91 500E (this was back in 2004).

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by e500.org View Post
    Joe, that suspension has done more than 20k but should still be in good condition. Its probably done more like 50k at least. I think we got the car on 120,000km, what is the car showing now?

    Told you it had AMG suspension mate as per the original eBay add that I write, the car sat lower and handed miles better than my uncles 91 500E (this was back in 2004).
    Hi Bill, yes indeed I was told that & seen it in the old add’s too. But the car was also described as a real E500 not a 500E for example which made me sceptical about the authenticity of the ‘E60’ bits.


    However, I’m happy now it’s in there! The car has just over 200k Kilometres on it now. But I can honestly say the shocks are in fine fettle- they have certainly took no hurt! All seals dry & clean. When they are removed and washed up they will in top condition. (Where I rubbed at the AMG logo’s they are clean underneath the dust & dirt) I’ll fit new mount rubbers too next winter.


    The rust on the springs will be dealt with soon to keep them good. I checked and there are no broken bits anywhere. (Sometimes little end bits of road springs will be sitting snapped off in the lower perch). These are the springs on the E36 build, I treated in the same way as the E60 stuff will be done. (Only Black paint for E60)


    IMG_0107.JPGIMG_0113.JPGIMG_0114.JPG

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    BTW I found a thread earlier where someone tried to buy E60 suspension stuff and it was confirmed NLA by MB in 2010. So I be looking after this set for sure! Here it is-

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521
    The E60 suspension stuff was NLA for several years around 2010 or so. However, at some point after that (I forget when exactly) the dampers became available again, and I believe they are still available today... don't know how many are left though.

    Unfortunately, only the rear E60 springs are available; the front E60 springs are permanent NLA according to the Classic Center; as of late 2013 anyway. Ron was able to obtain some specs for the fronts and was looking into having reproductions made, but I don't think that ever happened...

    BTW, you'll need to check your existing springs to see if they are E60 or not. The part number is stamped near the bottom coil, you'll have to clean them up first. If the number is not legible, you can measure the wire diameter and total length; we should be able to determine from that data if your springs are AMG E60 or regular E500E.

    Dave M.
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thanks Dave, yes I will check the springs too but I am pretty certain now they are the proper E60 springs. Given how low the car sits, how it corners and now that I know all 4 shocks are E60 it would be quite unlikely the springs are not E60 also. I would be happy to provide Spring specs to anyone interested when I have them out.

    Its a shame the car came with no paperwork for when the E60 stuff was fitted. It must have cost someone quite a bit to have that done.

    The new spheres should be here this week so I'll get them in before FL or at least that's the plan.... looking forward to seeing how the car handles after that. I think the spheres were shot since I bought the car a couple months back. (& years prior to that probably!)

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Spring specs would be much appreciated when it becomes convenient.

    drew
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by sheward View Post
    Spring specs would be much appreciated when it becomes convenient.

    drew
    No problem I will have the springs out in a couple of weeks to have them treated. I check what measurements you guys need near the time.


    In other news- the new mats finally arrived from the trimmer


    IMG_1115.JPGIMG_1116.JPGIMG_1114.JPG
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    Re: OWNER - JC220


    I got the Corteco Spheres installed last night. Corteco are most definitely the OE supplier when I compared the new Spheres with the MB ones- IDENTICAL in every way except for the missing MB part number! Buying Corteco spheres offers quite significant savings over MB dealer prices. I got very fresh stock from the supplier- production date is only 7 weeks ago. Woeful job taking the old Spheres out - LHM fluid everywhere and crawling around the garage floor since I don't have a lift.... yet

    I was wondering how to bleed the suspension properly since air will be trapped at the top of the strut since its only one pipe to each strut. But then read about raising the car up fully & dropping again to purge air. This makes total sense since lowering again it will purge / displace the air trapped at the top of the struts back down the line & into the levelling valve where the pump will circulate it back via the return line to the reservoir- viola! I'll also double check the setting of the SLS valve link with the car on it's 4 wheels (Albeit rear wheels on ramps) I'll check the valve is in it's neutral position with the 4mm dowel inserted. Yet more fresh LHM fluid to add also, I'm on my 7th & 8th Litres of the stuff now!

    Test drive Saturday morning post SLS repairs. Hopefully no more spine rattling going over bumps.

    IMG_1128.JPGIMG_1129.JPG

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    If you liked the level where it was prior to needing to replace the spheres, just reinstall new spheres. Many ways to relieve pressure but the valve is hard to access via the FSM as you saw. Crack open a fitting slowly, and let it drain at the sphere if that is what you are replacing. My spheres went and it was like 20 clowns in a jalopy bouncing about....
    Last edited by nocfn; 06-09-2016 at 07:28 PM. Reason: correct information now posted with humility!
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thanks Nocfn, yes I have replaced both Spheres in the car. The Auto bleeding is good - my only 'concern' per say was that each hydro damper has a single pipe going to it from the sphere. Now that pipe is full of air since I drained it all. As the Shock pipe is higher than the Spheres I figured the Air will rise to the highest point & get stuck up there.

    But then I re-called reading that the system should be bleed by unhooking and pushing the SLS lever to raise the car right up then lower it down again. Thus that's how the air in that higher pipe(s) on each shock is bleed out. It's forced back down the pipes as the car pushes the rams back in. When the air reaches the leveeling valve it will be picked up in the return pipe and purged as normal.

    So no fittings will be undone. Just fill it as you say and let the car run on the ramps. Then move the lever to raise it and when done check the SLS lever.

    I only wanted to check the SLS lever since this car has non standard suspension. I want to verify the SLS link was adjusted correctly when the car was lowered.

    I am thinking that if it was not adjusted and the car was lowered on E60 springs etc the car may be resting on the shocks instead of the springs somewhat. Which could also explain the overly firm suspension at the rear. I'll check it later and see how close the adjuster is to neutral on it first.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    FSM bleed procedure is to disconnect the lever on the SLS valve and cycle it through fill (raise) and drain (lower) a couple times. Monitor fluid level, reconnect lever when you are done. If not bled properly, you can end up with a rattle even with good SLS shocks, and lower than normal ride height. (Don't ask how I know.) The system WILL NOT bleed itself automatically by just driving the car after installing new parts.


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    OWNER - JC220

    Here is uncle Kent:https://youtu.be/zTt3enFL0ek

    Similar concept on chassis 124.036 but different orientation.

    Last edited by nocfn; 06-09-2016 at 10:10 AM.
    1994 E500
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    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Well progress was much faster than I thought! I got the sphere install finished and bled the system. Without doubt the car must be raised & lowered several times to fully bleed the system. It works very well & the car lifts up quite fast.

    One old sphere was totally shot with a screwdriver going right to the back. The other resisted at about 2 inches. A test drive proved very satisfying! Nice smooth working suspension now. Car feels much softer and controlled over bumps.

    But I still have more adjusting to do. When checking the SLS link it was off as I thought it would be. Ie; It was not adjusted when the E60 upgrade took place. But it appears I went a little too far as the car now sits higher than it was before adjustment. So I'll drive it on the ramps again & fine tune that in the coming days.

    The front end needs to come up to the next bump pad size I think it's just too low regardless of where the car sits after the SLS is fine tuned and it settles on the shocks / accumulators. I think 2 bump pads on the front will leave it sitting level.

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  31. #322
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Looked over the notes and see the error of my ways, thanks GSXR! My Eibach springs will be here Monday and will swap them in the C126 and remove the HR, along with replacing my good struts that are a decade old for new ones since I am in there. Spares should not be new I always thought so in they go!
    Last edited by nocfn; 06-09-2016 at 07:31 PM.
    1994 E500
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    1991 560 SEC
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    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I will get the SLS Lever adjusted again tonight. I shortened it too much. If I add about 2.5mm back in she should sit down again just where it needs to be. But a new adjustable link will be added to my next MB parts order since the original is stiff at the joints and just doesn't feel right.

    The next issue is the Driver's Seat is creaking / squeaking like mad! I think I can only hear it so bad now the noisy blower fan is fixed. It's like a metallic skreak - hugely annoying. Happens every time the seat base moves up or down any amount whilst driving.

    Looking on here it's items 8 & 14 I need. http://mb-teilekatalog.info/view_Sub...=91&subgrp=060

    Question- What is the 'Reinforced' Seat base option for no. 08? Would I be better ordering the stronger seat base? Even though it's bloody expensive I would like to just get a new seat base from Mercedes assuming they are still available that is.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    as for the seat, have a go at the plastic coverings of the seat belt near the center console. On my c126, the plastic over the bottom covering was rubbing on another plastic bit. So when I moved it slightly rubbed like a fingernails on chalkboard. Wife's emory board took of .0001 of a mm and that did it.
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    as for the seat, have a go at the plastic coverings of the seat belt near the center console. On my c126, the plastic over the bottom covering was rubbing on another plastic bit. So when I moved it slightly rubbed like a fingernails on chalkboard. Wife's emory board took of .0001 of a mm and that did it.
    Mmmm maybe I should take the seat apart first and see what's going on

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    in my case, it was just the plastic cap covering the attachment nut of the seat belt to the tunnel, against the seat plastic cover.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    in my case, it was just the plastic cap covering the attachment nut of the seat belt to the tunnel, against the seat plastic cover.
    Yes I’ll take a look before I order anything – especially given the price of those seat parts from MB. Still curious what the reinforced base means- Taxi version?


    So SLS is now reset just exactly at the mid point where both the springs & the dampers hold the car when at rest. Before the Link was WAY too long meaning the valve was in drain mode all the time and there was a large dead spot where there should not have been.


    Successful test drive no more , just & wait for it...... the phantom suspension knock is totally gone! It was the busted accumulator causing it. Funny thing is when I was depressurising the system I swore I heard the very same knock coming from the passenger side Sphere. Turns out that was the one that was totally busted. See how the screwdriver goes right in? (Other Pic moved below for some reason)

    IMG_1138.JPG





    So this is the stance the car has always had since I bought it-

    IMG_1132.JPG



    Way too low at the front end. It’s running 1 bump pads both front & rear. I have a brand new pair of 3 bump spring pads on the shelf so they are going in. I think that will level it out & I’m not a fan of the ‘slammed’ look anyway. I think with the 3 bump pads up front the suspension will be sorted. The extra 10 -12mm up front will make all the difference and it will still handle well with the E60 kit underneath.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Check out the pic of another E60 compared to my 500E, It’s got the exact same stance

    IMG_1132.JPG


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    OK Guys just a heads up in about 6 hours from now I will be removing the front E60 springs one at a time & re-installing. This is for me to install the 3 Bump pads to see if I can adjust the ride height to where I would like it.


    I have a tape measure and Digital Vernier Calipers.


    What measurements would you like off the E60 Springs?

    Unsprung length and coil thickness?


    (The springs will be out again soon for restoration for now I am just experimenting with Bump Pads)

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    yes that helps
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Free length, wire diameter, and number of coils (need to estimate within ~0.1 turn).

    For wire diameter you may need to clean up the spring pretty well, remove corrosion, and measure in multiple different places on the spring. I have some data from other people, I'm curious if your numbers will be similar...


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Expanding on what Dave said you may find the wire diameter to measure different values depending on how you orientate the calipers. The wire may not be perfectly round.

    drew
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I like the way your car sits presently, looks like my own does however we have little travel left in front so I will be doing the same. I like those BBS wheels on the 036. They are the only others left I don't own that I would like to!

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Free length, wire diameter, and number of coils (need to estimate within ~0.1 turn).

    For wire diameter you may need to clean up the spring pretty well, remove corrosion, and measure in multiple different places on the spring. I have some data from other people, I'm curious if your numbers will be similar...

    So the plan changed- I took all 4 springs out & got them dropped off for restoration. Thought I may as well get all 4 sorted properly now.

    On inspection the HWA part numbers are stamped into the springs - all details as follows-

    Front Springs-
    HWA 124 321 04 04
    Length- 344.5mm
    9.9 Coils
    Coil Thickness-
    Upper- 16.57mm
    Middle- 16.79mm
    Lower- 16.64mm

    Rear Springs-
    HWA 124 324 04 04
    Length- 281mm
    8.76 Coils
    Coil Thickness-
    Upper- 9.49mm
    Middle- 9.52mm
    Lower- 9.45mm

    Also- the front AntI Roll bar is huge- must have been part of the AMG suspension upgrade. I can get dimensions there if needed but I think Dave’s Site already covers that well. This is how I measured coils: http://springipedia.com/compression-counting-coils.asp

    These measurements were taken before the springs were sent off. Besides the surface rust they are in very good condition with no cracks or missing / broken off bits. They will be professionally soda blasted (Carefully he knows to go easy on them and keep the pressure down) then Urathane Primed in a heated booth and final coats of 2K Gloss Black. I can take measurments when I get them back also- they will be as new again.

    How do these measurments compare Dave?

    PS- If anyone does look into getting a replica set of springs made up please keep me in the loop- I would like a spare set for this baby.
    Last edited by JC220; 06-11-2016 at 12:58 PM.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Joe, those numbers are a close match for my data, with one exception... could you double-check the wire diameter on the rear springs? They should be over 14mm diameter, not 9mm...? Also, if the paint stripes are still visible can you find if your springs have the blue or red (see pic at this link)? Your coil counting method was perfect (thanks for the link, btw - that is the method I used as well.)

    Sway bar should be 30mm diameter, 22mm at the ends.


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Joe, those numbers are a close match for my data, with one exception... could you double-check the wire diameter on the rear springs? They should be over 14mm diameter, not 9mm...? Also, if the paint stripes are still visible can you find if your springs have the blue or red (see pic at this link)? Your coil counting method was perfect (thanks for the link, btw - that is the method I used as well.)

    Sway bar should be 30mm diameter, 22mm at the ends.

    Hi Dave,


    I took the measurements carefully and those rear springs are in the 9mm range- not 14. Both the front & rear springs were stamped with the full AMG part numbers so they are the correct springs for sure. The AMG springs were painted – not powder coated. So all the paint had flaked off. The rust was very light surface rust what is actually on them is tiny fragments of the old paint still clinging on. I cannot tell the OE paint (Red etc) markings sorry.



    I found this pic of E60 Springs- see the rear springs look so much thinner than the fronts? And just from the pic the Coil count is about equal.

    E60_springs1.jpg



    So the 14mm measurement you got before for the rear springs was an error I’m pretty certain.


    I won’t get the springs back until July when I’m home again. (My brother lives near the blaster dude so he’s collecting them for safe keeping in a couple of days) Since they will be nice & clean then I can take another set of even more detailed measurements & pics.


    Plus soon enough the 4 dampers will be out to get a proper bubble bath . So I’ll measure them too


    Edit- Here is a pic of the swaybar as fitted. I will check the diameter tomorrow since I need to order new ARB bushes anyway.

    IMG_1092.JPG



    Last edited by JC220; 06-11-2016 at 05:41 PM.

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    OK so I have the car booked in for it's Brabus clone Stainless Cat back exhaust in a couple of weeks. I've also got a GSXR approved Eprom Chip coming soon and have the ASR defeat about ready to fit.

    So I was thinking I might get the same place to Dyno the car before they fit the performance Exhaust & Before I install the chip then Dyno it after again.

    Don't get me wrong- I am NOT expecting power gains at all it's just to see-

    A; how many Ponies have fled since 1992

    &

    B; to dispel the myths that the Performance exhaust / tuning chip makes no difference at all to a 500E. (Since most people do not Dyno their cars which makes me curious that's all) I would be chuffed to see anything added at all- 5 - 10HP even but won't be surprised if nothing happens- it'll just be good to know either way.

    BUT- I have another upgrade in mind for when I have all the Ignition system replaced. New flex discs in & 100% differed maintenance taken care of.....




    I would do the install carefully so it can be un-done without trace in the future. To that end I will try to source a spare inlet manifold to drill for the NOS injectors.

    The company making the exhaust tune & build high performance cars for a living so I asked for their opinion on the before & after Dyno and the NOS- this is what they said;

    Our dyno will calculate flywheel hp not wheel hp.



    I had a direct port WON kit with 2 x 11Ib bottles 2 x nitrous solenoids and 2 x fuel solenoids on my ML55 AMG and only made an extra 30BHP running 2 x200 shot of Nos and fuel to match, I actually found the dyno graphs of it the other day and will send you a copy and have pics of the install. I felt it didn’t really work on the vehicle and think the engine knock sensor was pulling it back, even though it was twin spark I think it went off cylinders using it and there wasn’t a massive performance gain.

    We supplied NOS gas for the last 10 years but our stock ran out in Feb of this year and we will not be restocking it as it wasn’t a fast moving item for us and there isn’t anywhere else In Ireland that does stock it. I tried to get a few guys set up as dealers but they wouldn’t put in the financial commitment.

    We have some 2nd hand kits in stock and can also supply new if you want.
    So is NOS a bit of a waste of time (30hp!?) Or will I be able to get the car into the 400HP range? I'll share his Dyno charts when he sends them and the pics of the ML55 install. I had a quick search re: NOS on here and some great info about a BenzWerks kit. But it seems these are NLA and HP figures did not seem to have Dyno Charts to prove but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

    It's already a very strong hard pulling motor so once I have the timing chains & guides replaced, and everything in rude health I think it will be just fine for the occasional NOS blast. I have friends with newish Porsche 911's etc and although I think the 500E could just about keep up already it would be fun to be able to blast past them with 400HP on tap and see their stunned faces after! Just about enjoying the car, having a little fun and making it something a little more special than it already is


    I would really appreciate anyone's input on performance upgrades on a 500E & in particular their experience with NOS in a m119.

    For example do I need to install a new EFI system / Upgraded fuel injectors / Fuel Pump?


    Or can a 'piggyback' ECU be added for the NOS fueling control?

    There were no details on the Benzworks Kits or the installation of them. It seemed closely guarded which I suppose I can understand. However if anyone has info on that I would be grateful for a PM. I would not disclose the info either if desired- just to expand my own knowledge of exactly what's involved more than anything else


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The BergWerks kit worked nicely and there were multiple dyno graphs available - I remember Gerry and J-sauce both posted dyno graphs, other people may have as well. The BergWerks numbers claimed were on the high side compared to the dyno results though; i.e. the "100 shot" kit seemed to produce about 75hp at the crank on Gerry's car; while the "125 shot" jetting seemed closer to 100hp at the crank on Justin's car. It can be jetted to 150 shot which I assume would provide +125 at the crank, nobody has posted dyno graphs for that setup yet. I believe the BergWerks dyno numbers are with the 125-shot jetting, as their dyno results are VERY close to what Justin saw on his car.

    The BergWerks setup is a dry kit, no changes are needed up to the "125 shot" jetting, beyond that a higher-volume fuel pump is required. I would add recommend a wideband AFR gauge for safety but most people don't bother. I have a kit in the box that I plan to install on my red 500E.

    Links to Justin's OWNER thread with NOS info and dyno graphs:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The BergWerks kit worked nicely and there were multiple dyno graphs available - I remember Gerry and J-sauce both posted dyno graphs, other people may have as well. The BergWerks numbers claimed were on the high side compared to the dyno results though; i.e. the "100 shot" kit seemed to produce about 75hp at the crank on Gerry's car; while the "125 shot" jetting seemed closer to 100hp at the crank on Justin's car. It can be jetted to 150 shot which I assume would provide +125 at the crank, nobody has posted dyno graphs for that setup yet. I believe the BergWerks dyno numbers are with the 125-shot jetting, as their dyno results are VERY close to what Justin saw on his car.

    The BergWerks setup is a dry kit, no changes are needed up to the "125 shot" jetting, beyond that a higher-volume fuel pump is required. I would add recommend a wideband AFR gauge for safety but most people don't bother. I have a kit in the box that I plan to install on my red 500E.

    Links to Justin's OWNER thread with NOS info and dyno graphs:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860


    Thanks for the info Dave & the link.

    OK so the Dry kit means the fuel system can stay stock really- which is great news. Yes I would install a Air Fuel ratio meter if that's recommended.

    I don't think I'll be able to get a Benzwerks Kit so I'll need to figure out what parts / system will be needed and also check how I will get a supply of NOS first & foremost since the email from the tuning company says no bottled NOS is available here in Ireland now. Unless it can be shipped from England that's a possibility.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Ohhhh, yeah, you have to find a local source for the N2O! You buy empty bottles and get them refilled locally. IIRC, a 10-lb bottle is good for about 120 seconds total of spraying. Then you get the bottle refilled, etc. If there is no local source to fill, that is a major problem!


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    OK Guys- I have a question for our USA friends who have used Autohaus AZ before


    We are in Vacation in Florida currently for another 10 days. We have a home rented in Orlando so there is a mailbox in the front lawn.


    I would like to order the pair of Bosch Caps & Rotors from Autohaus since they are less than half the price of home!


    If I order within 24 hours (UPS 3-Day Ground) they should be here Monday / Tuesday next week. If we are not in to sign for the package (Highly Likely) will they leave a card so I can go pick it up at a local US Postal sorting office?


    No idea how to postage system works here so any advice would be greatly received.


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    If it is shipped UPS, it must be delivered by UPS. You MAY be able to arrange pickup from UPS (not sure - find a local UPS Store and inquire). However, UPS does not typically deliver via US Postal Service (USPS).

    Also check Amazon, which offers 1-day or 2-day shipping:

    https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-03367-1...dp/B000BZJ398/

    https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-04271-1...dp/B000BZEDZ2/


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thankyou Dave for the advice, I'm driving to the local UPS store now to enquire

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I'm certain you can pick up the package at a local UPS center. That's their default system in case of an "unable to deliver scenario". I believe they also offer the option of leaving the package on the porch without signature.

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    I spoke to the local UPS shop and it will be sent there for me to collect which works out perfect

    Are there any Ignition lead sets on Autohaus you guys would recommend? I'm thinking I may as well get them with the Bosch caps & rotors

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Are there any Ignition lead sets on Autohaus you guys would recommend? I'm thinking I may as well get them with the Bosch caps & rotors
    Ignition wires are a completely different subject and there's no easy answer. Most all the aftermarket wire sets are generic (to fit multiple models) and some of the wire lengths are a bit off. Clark was offering custom-made wire sets (he's located in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, btw) but I don't know if he has any left:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6441


    I would recommend NOT buying the generic Bosch-branded wire sets, the type with light gray insulation and plastic orange plug boots... the gray insulation is very fragile and often tears just inserting into the plastic wire trays. The OE Beru wire is significantly more durable, IMO. Also, the ignition wires generally don't need replacement unless they are damaged, or are arcing (visible at night). They are solid-core, non-resistor wires and tend to last a very long time. The spark plug boots have resistors inside and these can be tested/measured to see if they are OK. The boots can be replaced individually IF they are OE/OEM with threaded connectors. Some cheaper aftermarket wire sets cannot have the boots un-threaded from either end.


    EDIT: forgot to mention that I believe ignition wires tend to be over-replaced on the M119. The typical American cars with plug wires used carbon-core resistor wires which do tend to fail more often, and may need replacement every 50kmi or so. Since the MB OE wires are solid core, they can literally go 200kmi+ without a wire failure (might have a plug boot or two fail during that time, but not the wires). I think I've heard of one or two reports, total, of people who found the wire insulation failing which resulted in visible arcing at night. A few years ago I went on a binge replacement of my wires with custom-length, custom-built sets and found zero change in power, smoothness, or anything else. The most important outcome was a significantly lighter wallet.



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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I had no issue with my set of Bosch ignition wires I recently installed. However, there is one wire that could be just a little bit longer to get it to to work. Look at the separate ignition wire thread. In general however, if I had to do it over I would go with Clark, so I agree with GSXR's general advice.
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    Thanks guys- I already asked Clark a few weeks back but he has sold his spark plug wire tools to GVZ

    OK I'll not go with Bosch leads. I'll buy a new Beru set since it looks like the leads on my car are the original 24 yr old items and I could see chaff marks in the insulation in places.

    The leads can wait until after I get home. I'll order the Bosch caps & rotors tonight. O rings will come from MB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    I'll order the Bosch caps & rotors tonight. O rings will come from MB.
    If the insulators (with O-ring) behind the rotor bracket are original, you might consider replacing those as well. At a minimum remove & inspect for any sign of fluid (not necessarily oil or water) on the back side, and clean them off.


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    Thanks Dave- yes I'll be sure to check the insulators for leakage or cracking. The Bosch Caps & Rotors are ordered from Autohauz AZ.


    And I found a Bremi Ignition Lead set in Germany- the pack says made in Germany (at least in the pic) and they look like OE quality Leads. So they were ordered too.


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BREMI-265-...-/252355578670


    Should be at home by the time I get back. I'll upload Pics of them so you guys can see. If the quality is in any way inferior they will be re-packed & returned.

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    Well Autohauz took payment and waited 24hrs to email and say they won't ship as my home address does not match the shipping address.

    So order is cancelled as there is now no time left to wait on the parcel. Totally sucks. I'll get caps at home in a couple of months.

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    BTW Dave I got the Chip today. Very well packed- thankyou!

    I think I'll have another go at the parts order using Amazon. 2 Day delivery will work fine. We are heading on a 6 hour drive to Key West on Saturday so I'll hold off ordering it until we are likely to be in. So if that works out I'll have the caps before we go home which will offer quite big savings over UK prices.

    Speaking of savings- when our US friends are filling up please spare a thought for those of us who do not have access to dirt cheap fuel!! I can fill our rental SUV here for 25- 30USD. £17ish.

    At home my 500E takes around £90 to fill up each time. (130USD!!) Crazy. Plus I normally fill it with Super Unleaded which is over £100 a fill

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Ignition wires are a completely different subject and there's no easy answer. Most all the aftermarket wire sets are generic (to fit multiple models) and some of the wire lengths are a bit off. Clark was offering custom-made wire sets (he's located in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, btw) but I don't know if he has any left:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6441


    I would recommend NOT buying the generic Bosch-branded wire sets, the type with light gray insulation and plastic orange plug boots... the gray insulation is very fragile and often tears just inserting into the plastic wire trays. The OE Beru wire is significantly more durable, IMO. Also, the ignition wires generally don't need replacement unless they are damaged, or are arcing (visible at night). They are solid-core, non-resistor wires and tend to last a very long time. The spark plug boots have resistors inside and these can be tested/measured to see if they are OK. The boots can be replaced individually IF they are OE/OEM with threaded connectors. Some cheaper aftermarket wire sets cannot have the boots un-threaded from either end.


    EDIT: forgot to mention that I believe ignition wires tend to be over-replaced on the M119. The typical American cars with plug wires used carbon-core resistor wires which do tend to fail more often, and may need replacement every 50kmi or so. Since the MB OE wires are solid core, they can literally go 200kmi+ without a wire failure (might have a plug boot or two fail during that time, but not the wires). I think I've heard of one or two reports, total, of people who found the wire insulation failing which resulted in visible arcing at night. A few years ago I went on a binge replacement of my wires with custom-length, custom-built sets and found zero change in power, smoothness, or anything else. The most important outcome was a significantly lighter wallet.


    And even perfect wires will often arc through when the plug end resistors are open circuit. Most "defective" wires are really only defective plug wire ends causing voltage spikes which lead to visible arcing. I've replaced a number of M119 plug wire ends over the years. I can't ever recall having to replace a wire for any reason other than physical damage such as from accidents, rodents, etc...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    I just went ahead and bought a pair of new Bosch caps & Rotor Arms. With the Dollar Rate taking a tumble I bought them in the UK instead. Got a great deal actually- the pair of caps & arms inc delivery was £171. New Bremi Ignition leads were ordered too a few days ago so that's the whole Ignition system replaced in one swoop. Hopefully the random cutting out will be gone after that.

    Next week the Ignition parts will go in along with the 2 new Aux Fans (Trucktec Germany- they arrived a couple weeks back and are superb quality- Cable clamps etc on there too unlike some aftermarket fans).

    Plus the E60 Springs need to go back in (They are now ready to collect post pro refurb) and the exhaust front section / cats needs to come off for painting / wrapping prior to the 500E going in for the stainless Brabus Clone Cat back exhaust to be made in a couple of weeks.

    Plenty to keep me busy then when I get home



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    Parts! The Ignition parts had got here when I was away


    So I got new Bosch Caps & Rotors- all made in Spain. From recent posts on here I know MB currently supply Bosch made in Spain Caps etc so these are the only ones I would have fitted. I have already voiced my opinion on Bremi Caps which are rubbish from my experience. I checked and the caps on my 500E are Bremi and not in great condition inside so these were due.


    Eating my own words now- but I got the new Bremi Igntion leads. I took a punt on these since they were only £110 ish for the complete set and were Made in Germany. Close inspection on what turned up reveals they are good quality cables. All of the connectors are high quality Brass with securing clips inside and the whole set looks identical to OEM quality. Both Coil Leads are included too so I guess I’ll be pulling the headlamp too.


    New cap O Rings coming from MB tomorrow and some night this week I’ll replace the caps, rotors & leads. Along with removing the insulators for close inspection / cleaning

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    Well I got the ignition system replaced but it wasn't plain sailing! Someone had already kindly rounded the small Alan bolts holding on the LH rotor arm. Bolt extractors couldn't get enough grip so I drilled the centre of the old rotor out using a right angled drill adaptor so I could get a 5mm Alan key through to undo the bracket bolt. Then with the assembly out I cut the bolts which were holding the remains of the old rotor on.


    The insulators were in top condition so with the new Bosch parts fitted the car purrs! Silky smooth idle and it catches / fires up faster than before too when the starter is turned. The new ignition leads were a pain to route around the m119's cable tracks correctly but I got there in the end.


    I was able to renew both King HT leads without taking the headlamp out. There was just enough room to struggle with popping the covers off the coils and swapping the leads.


    I'm kind of getting used to having zero access at anything when working in & around the 500E! Who needs skin on their knuckles anyway??


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Well I got the ignition system replaced but it wasn't plain sailing! Someone had already kindly rounded the small Alan bolts holding on the LH rotor arm. Bolt extractors couldn't get enough grip so I drilled the centre of the old rotor out using a right angled drill adaptor so I could get a 5mm Alan key through to undo the bracket bolt. Then with the assembly out I cut the bolts which were holding the remains of the old rotor on.


    The insulators were in top condition so with the new Bosch parts fitted the car purrs! Silky smooth idle and it catches / fires up faster than before too when the starter is turned. The new ignition leads were a pain to route around the m119's cable tracks correctly but I got there in the end.


    I was able to renew both King HT leads without taking the headlamp out. There was just enough room to struggle with popping the covers off the coils and swapping the leads.


    I'm kind of getting used to having zero access at anything when working in & around the 500E! Who needs skin on their knuckles anyway??

    Glad to hear things are progressing well pal. What is next on your list?

  85. #359
    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by e500.org View Post
    Glad to hear things are progressing well pal. What is next on your list?
    Hi Bill,


    I do have a long list of jobs in my head! Here’s what’s next-


    ASR Defeat Install (I’m working on that today actually)
    Refit refurbed E60 Springs and level car out with new different bump pads this time around
    Remove exhaust system- cut off rusty head shields – VHT Spray and wrap in Titanium heat wrap
    Car is going into shop in 2 weeks for Pro custom stainless Brabus replica Stainless Cat back install


    After that I’ll continue the rolling resto work – new reservoirs etc etc.


    Bigger jobs include-


    Correct E500 headlamps
    Colour coded ‘S600’ grill insert
    New rear windscreen (Delaminating)
    Have roof re-sprayed this Autumn (It has blemishes in the paint)
    Renew all suspension arms / bushes / flex discs etc – full restoration underneath.
    All new MB timing chain / guides / tensioner / gaskets.


    Planned future upgrades- in the order they are likely to happen

    Hel Stainless Carbon Brake lines
    18 OZ Futura rims with 10 inch rears - with Hankook tyres
    LSD- Quaife Kit
    SA or other big brake upgrade. (I would love the S600 / AMG 8 pots)
    125 shot of NOS


    So yeah- way too much work planned – plus this has to run alongside my E36 build which will pick up again soon


    Is your car all packed away currently?


  86. The Following User Says Thank You to JC220 For This Useful Post:

    lowman (07-10-2016)

  87. #360
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Tonnes planned it seems! Lots of resource on this website to get a majority of that done. Still in London at the moment so have been driving the beasty non stop recently. I replaced my caps/arms with MB parts and she has been purring beautifully since. Just gave her an oil change and she is running perfect - I am going to try the GTX Magentic oil next time, I currently use Shell Helix. I have one of the E500 headlight lenses if you're interested? It is for LHD market though but a spare i'd be willing to move on. I too have the ASR defeat kit sitting around and hope to rebuild my entire suspension in a similar vein to you. I just picked up both 400E and 500E H&R kits so with the right Bilstein B8s and the correct spring bumps I will be happy with the suspension.

    My steering box recently died so a member off here in the US is sending me the one out of his 53k mile 500E - that will be replaced week after next. I will then be off to Dubai hopefully so will park her away for a while.

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