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Thread: OWNER - JC220

  1. #1
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    OWNER - JC220

    Hi all,

    I am new on here- I have owned W124 cars for many years andjust very recently purchased a 1993 E500- my dream Benz!!
    However- it's currently a nightmare. Please see the contentsof this thread where I have been trying to give as much info on the Battery drain problem as possible-


    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124...s-address.html


    In summary-
    The car has Eco Junk wiring. I have on order a brand newengine harness from MB. I will fit it as soon as it arrives.
    The car can drain the Battery overnight at an alarming rate-I am still trying to pinpoint the cause as best I can.
    I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer me- sorryfor the brief introduction but hopefully from the other thread you will know what I am talking about and the thread can pick up on here

    Joe
    Last edited by gerryvz; 04-07-2016 at 06:43 AM. Reason: OWNER - JC220

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    New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    I assume you are replacing the lower harness immediately since it connects to the starter, alternator and power source? My original lower:
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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  4. #3
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Good point- yes I intend to rebuild / renew the lower harness as soon as I am able to. I am still waiting on parts from MB like the upper harness and I am also giving the car a mega service so when I have it up on jack stands doing the gearbox drain & service will be the time to check the lower harness.

    The car I bought has 200k kilometres on it & full MB service history. It runs smooth as silk & other than the phantom battery drain all is good. There were some other electrical gremlins with the car since it has been used VERY little for the past 10 years or so. L

    I have only owned like less than 2 weeks but so far I have carried out the following work;

    New fuses
    Fused dash bulbs replaced
    power seat switch replaced
    Central locking repairs
    New Engine harness ordered
    Battery replaced (It killed one!)
    Various in operative switches now working again- like interior lights etc

    Cruise works fine & idle is perfect- but I cannot read the build date on the ETA so although not faulty now- it may well be Eco Junk too.

    The car has a faulty antenna mast- all detailed on the other thread. I hope now that it's the antenna that's kicking in & draining the battery.

    I will disconnect that tonight and take the battery drain readings again & post here

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Just pull protective tape on one end of wirring and see if you can see live wires that will tell if you have eco wires.
    1993 500E
    1994 E320 cabriolet

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Get the multimeter, set it to current measurement (ussualy marked as 10A), plug probes to right connectors. Connect meter between positive battery terminal and battery positive wire, like in the foto:



    You should obtain approximately 0,01A - 0,03A, when ignition key is removed and doors are closed. If results are much bigger, just remove in sequence fuses in main fuse box and check, when currrent decrease to acceptables values. In this way you identify, which circuit "draining power".
    If you remove all fuses and current is still to big, try to remove modules from can-box or at the end, try to disconnect alternator and chech current again. Do it carefully - disconnect battery first. You can disconnect alternator wire from terminal behind can-box - you don't need to do it directly in alternator.
    Last edited by M104; 04-05-2016 at 07:27 AM.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Perfect m104 thanks for the tips! I will try this out later & report back

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Welcome to the forum. You are going to get the very best advice on the planet specific to these cars here. Some of it, you may not like to hear. But it is borne of experience by many dozens of owners here. Some folks have owned their cars for more than 15 years.

    First of all, before you do anything: if you know that the upper and lower wiring harnesses have not been replaced with known-good harnesses, replace BOTH of them as quickly as possible. Sounds like you are doing this with at least ONE of the harnesses. Replace both of them. This is a basic, base-lining step that should precede any further maintenance or repair operations. You MUST have good electrical pathways flowing to and from your engine and major accessories.

    Don't rebuild the harness(es) yourself. Buy new ones from MB. You can get many parts from the US likely cheaper than you can from Ireland. Pursue that route if you need to. Or get them in the EU. Just....get them. There are HOW-TO articles on this site that cover replacement of these harnesses.

    Depending on the mileage of your car, and what has and/or hasn't been done, you may be in for some expensive bills to get it right. I'm talking about wiring and "chassis rubber" parts -- suspension bushings, motor and transmission mounts, and various rubber seals and soft parts. Owning these cars is not cheap, but once you get them to a good place, they are relatively inexpensive to own and operate.

    I'd advise you to look through the very rich archives of this site, including the Wiki. You will find answers to your questions, and HOW-TO specific instructions, on just about every job you could imagine for these cars. This site will be infinitely better for you than Benzworld, I'm just telling you now.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    I can second that as I'm sure we all can on the board here - don't rebuild that harness. Get a new one. I'm just about to do a lower harness again too.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Welcome and +1 on Gerry's advice. Also, repair all the factory systems before "fixing" or bypassing them with aftermarket remedies, eg. the alarm system.
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Lower harness can easily short against the support bracket on the oil filter housing.

    I think it's your problem.


    Michael

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    If you look at the picture I provided, it will short because of gravity...

    Cleared codes before removing negative cable, changed harness and no codes returned after 300 miles.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Thats my old car I think from the Benzworld post. I'm in London, drop me a line if you want to know more.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Thankyou guys for the warm welcome- I appreciate it. The advice in the few posts so far is exactly what I am looking for.

    This car is a keeper for me- I will NEVER sell it like my other w124 saloons. I will invest time & money in this E500 to take it to the level it ought to be.

    More info on the car-

    I found a great original car in Birmingham. I took a plane over & drove the car to a Ferry in Wales- taking me to Dublin port. Only last weekend is when I got the car home.

    The good

    This car was originally delivered to the German Market where it lived for a couple of years. Then it was shipped to California for approx 10 years before coming to the UK with the same owner I have bought it from now. It has full service history and lots of history including all service invoices from Germany & CA- until current day. It also had an upgrade to full E60 suspension when it was in CA and those alloys added after- but I will get some 500E limited EVO 17’s for it if I can find a good set. The wheels are growing on me though so I will wait & see- anyone who views the car loves the wheels on it

    It has 124k miles on it backed up by the extensive service & MOT records even dating back to it’s german origins. and despite the obvious (to me) sign of eco junk- it purrs like a kitten. The power is incredible. On the way home I gave it full throttle kickdown whilst driving along at 45mph on a dry (But very slightly damp in places) road and it instantly smoked the rear tires until I let off again!

    It drives fantastically well. Smooth fast car- lots of effortless power. Rock steady smooth idle- trans is great too crisp well timed shifts and going through the shifter from D to R etc is fast hot & cold trans.

    Interior is immaculate- all original including the stereo. Seats are like new & all power / heating functions work. (Except the headrest- I can hear the motor buz but no moving) I have fitted a discrete looking Sony USB unit today but kept the original stereo for safe keeping and also used a wiring harness adapter so the original stereo will simply plug right back in if & when I want to.

    It's very well presented in a Metallic charcoal grey colour. I can tell the car has been resprayed I would say within the last 5 years or so. I will get my usual painter to colour sand & machine buff the car in the near future to make it totally perfect. Currently some minor orange peel is showing in places like the car wasn't colour sanded at all after the respray.

    Tyres all are all brand new Y Rated & matching.

    Brakes are strong and responsive- no problems there.

    The bad- these are the issues I will be addressing over the coming months.

    The purchase price worked for me & the vendor in light of these issues. I have a few £K to play with the make the car perfect as it should be. It's already a fantastic car & most people would happily drive it as it is. But it is my dream car essentially so only perfection will do! When these issues are dealt with this car is easily worth £16-20k+ in our market.... but I will not be selling the car- it’s a keeper for me.

    The car has a degrading wiring harness. I tried to read the white sticker on the ETA- can't read nada. Presumed ECO Junk also. However the cruise control works 100% and the idle is rock steady smooth. So the ETA is not currently showing ECO Junk symtoms.

    I have a new upper Engine harness on order from MB.

    Some bits of trim here & there are loose so I will get new clips and fix these as I go along.

    The key won't work on the driver's door- stuck. I freed it up but it will only turn the unlock direction. I have bought and fitted a full Cat 1 alarm like I used on my 300E-24. This now operates the central locking. (+ the obvious advantage of a Category 1 alarm / dual immobilizer)

    It had some electrical gremlins inside- I replaced all the corroded fuses with copper ceramic flosser ones- most issues now fixed.

    Interior dash illumination was dead- now repaired also with 3 fused bulbs replaced.

    The car ran too cool- about 60 degrees. I replaced the Thermostat with a new genuine MB unit- all good now. Car sits at 87 or so all the time. Healthy cooling system.

    The power aerial is stuck out and not functioning. New one got but not fitted yet.

    Car is de-badged- new E500 one ordered from MB

    The LHM fluid was very low- Now topped up & all good- no leaks at all.

    The ABS / ASR lights were on constant. I found a blown fuse in among the ECU enclosure under a glass hatch- all fine now.

    I have had the car on a 2 post lift- all is good underneath. Bushings are all tight only minor little jobs to do under there.

    It was serviced 6 months ago but I will be giving it a full mega service soon with the trans fluid / diff etc included. (All Fuchs Titan recommend brews)

    I have already bought these items and they are still trickling through to me (All mail order)

    Fuel filter
    Serpentine Belt
    Spark plugs F8DC4
    Air filters
    Oil filter
    SLS filter + fluid (MB LHM)
    Power steering filter + Fluid (Fuchs power steering)
    Coolant- cap- thermostat
    Brake Fluid
    Trains filter - gasket, fluid, plugs & washers

    Fuchs TITAN ATF 4000 Multifunctional Automatic Transmission Fluid -2 x 5 Litres
    Fuchs TITAN Gear Hyp 90 Hypoid Gear Oil GL5 80w-90 -2 x 1 Litre
    Shell Helix HX7 10W-40 Synthetic Technology Premium Engine Oil -2 x 5 Litres (Plus FREE 2 x 1 Litres and 2 Pouches)
    Comma G-05 Coolant.

    You are correct Gerry- my MB dealer is too expensive so I have found a supplier in Germany. However parts take at least 2 weeks from order- until they get to me.

    Regarding the E500 lower harness it's firmly in my sights now too. The reason why I would rebuild- is a time thing. I don't want yet another 2 week wait for parts from my supplier. Besides soon I will be putting the car up on Jackstands to perform an Autobox service (I drain them overnight to get all old fluid out) So for the lower harness re-wire that's the perfect time.

    I have experience in Auto wiring from my own cars. I have an ongoing E36 project detailed on Benz World. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124...g-project.html
    Long story short it's a 200 which I have upgraded everything on myself- brakes, heated Recaro Seats retrofit, Power window retrofit, suspension upgrades, 3.6 engine install, Manual to Auto gearbox conversion, AMG Bodykit etc. I used a 1995 C36 AMG donor car. It had Eco Junk- I had to re make the Engine, ETA & lower harness from scratch (HWA Harnesses NLA new) before taking the entire C36 car loom from the C36 and transplanting it to the w124. The car fired up first time with zero fault codes.

    I do the wiring to a high standard using high quality materials and soldering each connection. So I am not put off by repairing the E500 lower harness myself sooner than later- I would do the re-wire to a good as new standard.

    Now to proceed with the battery drain problem which I would really appreciate your help with-

    As per M104’s sound advice I have carried out a Ampage draw test on the Battery here are the results

    First a baseline -

    W124 300E-24 (Known no drain issues- also has the IDENTICAL model Toad alarm / immob installed as the E500 has now- although these power drain issues on the E500 existed prior to me installing the alarm- so the alarm install is of no consequence really)

    10 Amp setting ; 0.03 draw.


    E500 (Power antenna is now un-plugged also)

    10 Amp setting ; 4.32 draw first ten seconds

    Drops to 1.54 & holds steady thereafter.

    I removed all fuses and the only difference was on fuse c =reading drops to 1.48 & holds

    So it appears the current draw is occurring somewhere else on the car outside of the fused circuits on the car.

    What else do you guys think I should check or is it a case of replace both harnesses then re-check. Frustrating that as it’ll be a minimum of 2 weeks until I can figure out what’s wrong with it.
    Last edited by JC220; 04-05-2016 at 03:33 PM.

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  20. #14
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Lower harness can easily short against the support bracket on the oil filter housing.

    I think it's your problem.


    Michael
    Would that be the alternator cable which rubs the oil filter housing then? Did you have this problem with your car- and if so did it also drain the battery?


    I guess it's good the car is showing a constant draw. It would be harder to trace if it was an intermittent fault.


    What I mean is if I were to systematically disconnect each + connection or earthing points at some stage surely the reading will zero out pinpointing the problem circuit.


    For the lower harness for example when I get the chance to remove it I could hook the meter on right away and see if the current drain has cleared up.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Wow, I see the BW thread was closed after some fisticuffs. The whole "eco junk" thing is drastically overblown. Replace the upper & lower engine harness and ETA, and you're done. The rest of the harnesses on the car see very little if any degradation of the insulation. And, the new harnesses have good insulation and will not fail like the originals. ~$600 in new harnesses plus a good used late-datecode ETA and it's all a non-issue. Those guys were ready to send every late W124 to the crusher over that? Puh-leeze.


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  23. #16
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Here's a few tips for isolating a power draw. Use a regular test light instead of a voltmeter/ammeter. A test like will let you know the severity of the draw without the risk of blowing your meters fuse (which can be very easy). Pretty much a unacceptable draw will light the bulb. A normal car would not light a bulb most times after everything has gone to sleep.

    As a mechanic, 90 percent of power draws are radios. An amplifier, alternator, and aftermarket alarm is where I'd look next.

    Best of luck!
    1993 400E on EVO2's

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Wow, I see the BW thread was closed after some fisticuffs. The whole "eco junk" thing is drastically overblown. Replace the upper & lower engine harness and ETA, and you're done.
    +1

    Yes, Q*baert and a few others over at BW 124 forum tend to be fairly "militant" about some things that in reality have not proven to play out to the level that they say they do.

    As far as wiring is concerned, there are only three major areas you need to worry about -- the upper harness (this is the biggie), the lower harness (increasingly these are going bad with age/use), and the wiring inside the ETA. Other wiring/harnesses aren't exposed to engine heat so don't tend to cause problems nearly to the degree that these three things do.

    Fortunately used ETAs made after 1998 or so can be had, that don't have the internal biodegradeable wiring. However you MUST get the correct ETA if you are replacing yours. ETAs are also starting to wear out in the mechanicals from age/use, not just the wiring. But fortunately this is fairly uncommon, so not an issue you need to worry about.

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  27. #18
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    ...Seats are like new & all power / heating functions work. (Except the headrest- I can hear the motor buz but no moving)...
    This HOW-TO should help you solve the headrest problem.
    " Destination ???, It's the ride that takes you there! "
    1993 500E W124.036 040/271
    1965 220b W111.010 Heckflosse

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  29. #19
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Yes I think my first mistake on BW was responding to those guys. I don’t know what their problem is- in any case I PM’d Jayare and asked him to close the thread myself to put an end to the lunacy. It certainly wasn’t helping me repair the car that’s for sure!


    The car wasn’t looked after properly for several years now and it’s in the right hands now. Whatever it cost's- I'll repair it.


    Ok I think I need to be patient for the parts to arrive then. I have the car booked into a bodyshop already for this Friday. It’s been fully resprayed but was never colour sanded / buffed. My pro painter has already assessed the car and is happy to go ahead & wet flat the car now & buff it properly. So that will be the last time I’ll drive it- as soon as I get the car home on Saturday it’s going into my Garage for the Autobox service now too whilst waiting on the harnesses.


    With your advice my plan now is to-


    Replace the upper harness


    Replace the Lower Harness


    Remove the Alternator now and have my usual place fully test / rebuild it. They will leave it as new & it can be ruled out as the current draw source.


    I couldn’t read the label on the ETA- I’ll try that again. Or is it possible to determine the part number I need from the car’s Vin? I can PM it to someone here if they think that’s possible.


    I will also check out / replace the boot lid wiring now- I see the boot lamp was removed and when checking the switched earth- it’s constant. Something amiss there- usual harness degradation at the lid hinge is what I suspect.


    Good point on the test lamp- I have already blown one multimeter...... it worked fine the last time I used it only a couple of days ago but refused to give readings last night. I renewed the blown fuse inside but it was toast. I spent an hour driving around to buy another meter before I could even test the current drain. As you say I’ll rig up a test lamp the next time instead to save the multimeters!


    Thanks again for the help- the car drives 100% superb so I do hope once I get the looms renewed I will have a gem of a car.
    Last edited by JC220; 04-05-2016 at 11:44 PM. Reason: TYPO

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    It is very hard to diagnose problems on these cars unless econjunk wires are replaced. I would not be scared to use correct post 1999 used set if found. Once upper and lower is replaced it will be different car and most problems will be gone until then its impossible to solve anything simple.
    1993 500E
    1994 E320 cabriolet

  31. #21
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Yes I think my first mistake on BW was responding to those guys. I don’t know what their problem is-
    Sigmund Freud himself would have difficulty figuring that one out, worthy of a thread in and of itself.....

    Sad thing is many of us have been in your position. Some of the BW (ir)regulars have driven away all the knowledgeable people (Jono, Gerry, etc., etc.) who have taken their time to give the correct advice based upon their hands-on experience. It was mostly confined to the 126 Forum and pretty much didn't effect the 124 forum until recently, but I see that's changed.
    As I see it, if you look at some of the people at BW as the equivalent of 2 teenage girls fighting over a boy whom they like - you'll still be wrong, but you'll be closer than if you actually tried to find out what motivates them to act the way they do.
    If you want proper correct advice on your cars - this is the place to get it.
    If you want drama and insults on your cars - there is no finer place on the Internet than BW. Arrogance without portfolio as we say.
    Truly a shame that car guys can't stick together, oh well.

    Kind Regards,

    Ron
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    1968 Bob Jackson 10 Speed Bicycle - Original Owner
    and some cars.

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  33. #22
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron500E View Post
    Sigmund Freud himself would have difficulty figuring that one out, worthy of a thread in and of itself.....

    Sad thing is many of us have been in your position. Some of the BW (ir)regulars have driven away all the knowledgeable people (Jono, Gerry, etc., etc.) who have taken their time to give the correct advice based upon their hands-on experience. It was mostly confined to the 126 Forum and pretty much didn't effect the 124 forum until recently, but I see that's changed.
    As I see it, if you look at some of the people at BW as the equivalent of 2 teenage girls fighting over a boy whom they like - you'll still be wrong, but you'll be closer than if you actually tried to find out what motivates them to act the way they do.
    If you want proper correct advice on your cars - this is the place to get it.
    If you want drama and insults on your cars - there is no finer place on the Internet than BW. Arrogance without portfolio as we say.
    Truly a shame that car guys can't stick together, oh well.

    Kind Regards,

    Ron
    1965 Radio Flyer Wagon, Monoposto - Original Owner
    1968 Bob Jackson 10 Speed Bicycle - Original Owner
    and some cars.
    Well put- like teenage girls over there. I won't be wasting time on there again myself. I'll finish my E36 build thread- lots of people really like the build and are following it. To be fair there are some nice genuinely helpful people on there- it's just the same bad apples that keep popping their heads up and ruining the forum.

    Yes I have already used Gerry's how to on here for the Thermostat replacement- like his my car's stat was stuck. It took some wrestling for it to release.

    I look forward to learning more about this super saloon using this site's resources!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    It is very hard to diagnose problems on these cars unless eco junk wires are replaced. I would not be scared to use correct post 1999 used set if found. Once upper and lower is replaced it will be different car and most problems will be gone until then its impossible to solve anything simple.
    I have bought a new upper engine harness from MB- not cheap but there are no used V8 harnesses available here really at all. (Very few V8 cars in general) The lower harness I will rebuild now as soon as I get it out from the car. There is only stock in Germany so it would be another 2 week wait minimum & I would rather have that taken care of and the car ready to fit the new upper harness as soon as it arrives.

    As it is I ordered the new upper harness this day last week- and it still has not been dispatched from Germany even.

    For now I will replace both harnesses, have the alternator pro re-furbed and see if that cures the power drain problems. If not then I'll have to look into the cause of that further- but I am hopeful its either the lower or upper harness to blame. Boot lid harness will also be re-done now too since I already know the boot light is not functioning correctly. (Always on- lamp holder missing)

    Regarding the ETA I might just pull it now too and check for the Eco Wiring. And re-wire it as I did before on the E36 car. It's a tedious job but I do not mind that. Again, there are very, very few used V8 ETA's available here.

    For all the harnesses I'll upload Pics so you guys can see what state it was in. Check out the pic attached- if you look carefully at the plugs you can already see the sheathing falling off.....




    IMG_0579.JPG

  34. #23
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Looks like you are on a good track. Once you replace harness i bet a lot of little electrical bugs will be gone. Looks pretty bad on pics suprised car still even runs
    1993 500E
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    I know that's the surprising part- the car runs so bloody good!

    I looked for the harness problems (And obviously found them right away) when I flew over to view the car. I almost passed on the car until I drove it & realised- damn this car drives fantastic!

    I drove it hard to the Ferry and home the same day- 5 hours driving at 75- 85mph in terrible heavy torrential rain through Wales too. Car did not miss a beat once.

    The only sign of trouble is the battery drain really- but I know firsthand from my 1995 C36 donor- to w124 build just how bad the Eco Junk can be when the harness is opened up.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Don't bother with opening up the ETA and checking the wiring. Disturbing that sleeping dog will cause it to rear its head. If you don't believe me, check my HOW-TO: M104 Top-end Rebuild thread, and see what it looked like when I opened up the ETA on that engine. It wasn't acting up before I did that, but opening it up and stretching the wires caused everything to flake apart before my eyes.

    The two wiring harnesses are the priority. The lower harness is much less expensive than the upper one, so much so that it is more worth your time to just buy it rather than spend the time to "rebuild" it. Trust me - just wait the couple of weeks to get the factory harness. You will be much happier in the end as opposed to trying to save a couple hundred bucks to do it yourself.

    As for Benzworld, I have threads on this forum about that cesspool as well. It's always a few bad apples who spoil the whole bushel. But some of it is just life on the forums. Heck, between Benzworld, PeachParts forum, and this forum, I've received two or three direct death threats, and have been called (on Benzworld) a "pussy" and my immortal favorite -- the classic GVZ name-call -- an "unhinged troll."

    I've met approximately 100 members of this forum all over the USA and in approximately 12 countries around the world. I'm quite sure that everyone, to a person, who has met me, would support that "unhinged troll" as an apt descriptor of me !!

    Anyway, you'll be treated with respect here, you'll get answers to your questions, and the expertise here is unparalleled. Not to mention that the answers to around 90+% of any questions you may have, are already found here. Hopefully the HOW-TO articles will also continue to be helpful.

    Good luck !!

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    I couldn’t read the label on the ETA- I’ll try that again. Or is it possible to determine the part number I need from the car’s Vin? I can PM it to someone here if they think that’s possible.
    See attached image for ETA datecode decoding. This was in the Wiki but most all of the Wiki images are broken. The original ETA can last for 25+ years and 100's of thousands of miles or km's, if the wiring is undisturbed. ETA will not cause power drain, btw, it will cause limp mode and codes on the E-GAS and ASR modules. Since the ETA wiring has to be disconnected and moved all over while replacing the other 2 harnesses, if it is original and working fine now, it may be dead when you reconnect it. Moving the wires around can kill the fragile insulation. If you already have a late datecode (96-up, later the better) it may be fine.

    You can also check the datecodes on both harnesses. If you are seeing insulation cracking and flaking off they are definitely old/original, but the datecode will confirm it. See attached photo, you need to look at the FD (manufacturing) date, not ZD (design).

    Finally... the wiring harnesses are not always "in stock". They are sometimes built on demand when an order is placed. No need to freak out if there is zero stock, as long as it's not coded NLA, which hasn't been an issue thus far.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    ...As for Benzworld, I have threads on this forum about that cesspool as well. It's always a few bad apples who spoil the whole bushel. But some of it is just life on the forums. Heck, between Benzworld, PeachParts forum, and this forum, I've received two or three direct death threats, and have been called (on Benzworld) a "pussy" and my immortal favorite -- the classic GVZ name-call -- an "unhinged troll."



    I have only popped onto Benzworld a few times and each time I have I thought my browser had crashed while the site would hang as it loaded some sort of advertisement. However the more I read stuff like this I'm more intrigued to lurk around there a bit just for the sheer entertainment value


    JC220 - I'm sure you have figured it out already but you are in the right place. Just don't ask for anyone's opinion on what is the best motor oil. Those discussions are about the closest thing you will see to a "heated" exchange with the individuals on this forum. However that being the case they too have been very entertaining.


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    .......while we are on oil discussion
    1993 500E
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    JC220, I'm glad you found your way here. Nobody deserves to be called "dumb a$$" for buying an E500E no matter what condition it is in.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    .......while we are on oil discussion

    Oh you really don't want to open that door Dario...

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by 600Eric View Post
    Oh you really don't want to open that door Dario...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    .......while we are on oil discussion
    Three words:

    - Motul
    - Red Line

    end of story

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Three words:

    - Motul
    - Red Line

    end of story
    ya but what viscosity is the key
    1993 500E
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    o_O .....


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Don't bother with opening up the ETA and checking the wiring. Disturbing that sleeping dog will cause it to rear its head. If you don't believe me, check my HOW-TO: M104 Top-end Rebuild thread, and see what it looked like when I opened up the ETA on that engine. It wasn't acting up before I did that, but opening it up and stretching the wires caused everything to flake apart before my eyes.

    The two wiring harnesses are the priority. The lower harness is much less expensive than the upper one, so much so that it is more worth your time to just buy it rather than spend the time to "rebuild" it. Trust me - just wait the couple of weeks to get the factory harness. You will be much happier in the end as opposed to trying to save a couple hundred bucks to do it yourself.
    OK, yes no doubt I would be happier knowing both harnesses are brand new MB ones. So I will heed your advice & have placed an order for the new MB lower harness also. Part number 1245402730


    I will still send the Alternator off for a refurb also next week. Preventative maintenance more than anything else- I have a new serpentine belt to fit too so it's the opportune time since the power cables & belt has to come off the alternator anyway.


    Plus it will rule out the chance of the Alternator being the problem as they have a test rig for the alternators. I will notify them to check in particular for power drains prior to dismantling it just so I know either way.
    These are pics of my 3.6 m104 ETA also- it was terrible! I re-wired it and it's happy now.

    I also put a couple of pics of the E36 car build so far- it's not 500E related specifically but my long term plan is to restore this 500E to the same brand new condition as that project car. I have a 300E- 24 I restored the same way also.20151108_165422_resized.jpgIMG_0182.JPGIMG_0119.JPGIMG_0072.JPG20150718_171144_resized.jpg20150724_194545_resized.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    See attached image for ETA datecode decoding. This was in the Wiki but most all of the Wiki images are broken. The original ETA can last for 25+ years and 100's of thousands of miles or km's, if the wiring is undisturbed. ETA will not cause power drain, btw, it will cause limp mode and codes on the E-GAS and ASR modules. Since the ETA wiring has to be disconnected and moved all over while replacing the other 2 harnesses, if it is original and working fine now, it may be dead when you reconnect it. Moving the wires around can kill the fragile insulation. If you already have a late datecode (96-up, later the better) it may be fine.

    You can also check the datecodes on both harnesses. If you are seeing insulation cracking and flaking off they are definitely old/original, but the datecode will confirm it. See attached photo, you need to look at the FD (manufacturing) date, not ZD (design).

    Finally... the wiring harnesses are not always "in stock". They are sometimes built on demand when an order is placed. No need to freak out if there is zero stock, as long as it's not coded NLA, which hasn't been an issue thus far.

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Joe\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\cl ip_image001.gif[/IMG]
    Thanks for the very clear info Dave I will be sure to take a closer look at mine again when I have the engine cover etc off again.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    You may be better off just buying a Bosch rebuilt alternator. May save some money over having yours redone. Just a thought.

    Here's an example, from a vendor here in the US that ships internationally:

    http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...412@Alternator

    Your serpentine belt replacement will be easy since you have an E500, with the late-style belt tensioner. It's pretty self-explanatory although I believe there is a HOW-TO on this as well.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    You may be better off just buying a Bosch rebuilt alternator. May save some money over having yours redone. Just a thought.

    Here's an example, from a vendor here in the US that ships internationally:

    http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...412@Alternator

    Your serpentine belt replacement will be easy since you have an E500, with the late-style belt tensioner. It's pretty self-explanatory although I believe there is a HOW-TO on this as well.
    Actually- the car is a 500E! I suspected as much just by the fact the whole car had been re-sprayed within the last 3- 5 years by my estimation.


    But Bill on here was actually the previous owner of my car & knows it was sporting the E500 look some years ago.


    The Ironic thing is I wanted a 500E all along. I will obtain a good used pre-facelift bonnet & boot lid for the car. For now I will enjoy as is- but I will return the car to 100% original again at some point.


    It’s a 1993 build car according to the registration book.


    Actually the local company has done about 10 MB alternators for me over the years- they know me well. They fully rebuild the unit with new bearings – slip ring – brush / regulator set etc and do so at wholesale price. Normally only about £50 each time!

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Oh! Well that would be cheaper than going the rebuilt route then. Sorry for the assumption (from your title) that you have an E500...


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Oh! Well that would be cheaper than going the rebuilt route then. Sorry for the assumption (from your title) that you have an E500...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That’s OK- I only learned this (for sure) today from Bill. It was cool that he recognised the car & took the time to message me info on it.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Actually- the car is a 500E! I suspected as much just by the fact the whole car had been re-sprayed within the last 3- 5 years by my estimation. But Bill on here was actually the previous owner of my car & knows it was sporting the E500 look some years ago. The Ironic thing is I wanted a 500E all along. I will obtain a good used pre-facelift bonnet & boot lid for the car. For now I will enjoy as is- but I will return the car to 100% original again at some point.

    It’s a 1993 build car according to the registration book.
    What are the last 6 digits of the VIN? Facelift cars (E500) started being built in early 1993 calendar year. We can tell from the VIN if it came from the factory as 500E or E500...


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    OK these are the last 6 digits of the Vin 811689

    I will also PM you the full Vin no if that helps

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    OK these are the last 6 digits of the Vin 811689

    I will also PM you the full Vin no if that helps
    Thanks! That should suffice. That chassis was probably built in late 1992, not early 1993! Is there any month/year on any doorjamb tags? We have those on USA cars, not sure if Euro cars have the same thing. I can confirm tonight when I get home but I'm 99.44% certain the car was definitely a pre-facelift, 500E. So you could convert it back (hood/trunk/lights) if you prefer it to be original. Funnily enough, many people do the reverse!


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Thanks! That should suffice. That chassis was probably built in late 1992, not early 1993! Is there any month/year on any doorjamb tags? We have those on USA cars, not sure if Euro cars have the same thing. I can confirm tonight when I get home but I'm 99.44% certain the car was definitely a pre-facelift, 500E. So you could convert it back (hood/trunk/lights) if you prefer it to be original. Funnily enough, many people do the reverse!

    I have just went out & checked both front door jambs- no stickers at all.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    We had a battery drain issue that actually turned out to be caused by the factory radio amplifier. Mind you, in our case it didn't drain the battery overnight, it took 2-3 days.

    In anycase, it's another place to look in the event that your current plans don't resolve the issue.
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    I have just went out & checked both front door jambs- no stickers at all.
    Bummer! Strange that MB makes it so difficult to figure out dates. If you have connections with a dealer, see if they can pull a VMI (Vehicle Master Inquiry) report, which should show the production date, and delivery date.

    Also, on the battery drain, if the car has the factory cellular phone... disconnect the main box in the trunk on the driver's side. Common issue on USA models.


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    .......while we are on oil discussion
    BTW, I was wondering about color.
    Is it "Parchment" or "Mushroom?"

    Thanks for any help......

    R

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    On my first 500e the rear overhead/vanity light in the cabin would drain the battery....it would kill it overnight.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    This car would have been made during June & July of 1992, so it would have been a very late 1992 model. Essentially the end of the model year run. It left Rossle-Bau in July of 1992.

    BTW my database has records of this car going back to October of 2005.

    Here are my detailed notes:

    Seller "abbam" from 500e.com. Admitted flaws: Some rust inside the right side passengers door inside (needs new seal for door); some rust on roof (Small amount); small scratch on drivers side rear bumper; small scratch on the front bonnet Mercedes-Benz emblem; Drivers electric headrest not working nor is there a button for it (I can hear the motor but the headrest doesn’t go up and down. Maybe need to connect a cable I don’t have the time); air conditioning doesn’t blow ice cold (probably a regass I don’t have the time); Passengers heated seat rapid heating function light doesn’t turn on (bulb?) although seat heats up. Car has AMG E60 suspension. Updated stereo. 18" wheels.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    This car would have been made during June & July of 1992, so it would have been a very late 1992 model. Essentially the end of the model year run. It left Rossle-Bau in July of 1992.

    BTW my database has records of this car going back to October of 2005.

    Here are my detailed notes:

    Seller "abbam" from 500e.com. Admitted flaws: Some rust inside the right side passengers door inside (needs new seal for door); some rust on roof (Small amount); small scratch on drivers side rear bumper; small scratch on the front bonnet Mercedes-Benz emblem; Drivers electric headrest not working nor is there a button for it (I can hear the motor but the headrest doesn’t go up and down. Maybe need to connect a cable I don’t have the time); air conditioning doesn’t blow ice cold (probably a regass I don’t have the time); Passengers heated seat rapid heating function light doesn’t turn on (bulb?) although seat heats up. Car has AMG E60 suspension. Updated stereo. 18" wheels.

    Yes that's this car for sure- thanks for the add I'm amazed you can turn that up.

    One thing Bill & this add proves is the current seller told me the car was originally from Germany then in USA. There was a service book with it with al stamps so I had no real reason to doubt him.... Until now

    On checking the service book the data card in the back has been ripped out. So he clearly misled me on that. But really I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day. It does have all the mot data & some servicing records dating right back so I'll did that stuff out again for another look.

    i should have bought it back then!! The asking price this time was £14k!! It was on car & classic UK site.

    My painter spotted the filler in the roof. I was kind of worried it might have been accident damage so it's somewhat of a relief to hear it was only rust.

    Since that add the whole car has been fully re-sprayed and to be fair they did a tidy enough job. It's going to my painter tomorrow night for a full wet flat & polish to really bring out the shine.

    All other issues I will repair correctly on the car but really it doesn't need much doing to it- it's already a great driving car which that add also indicated.

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron500E View Post
    BTW, I was wondering about color.
    Is it "Parchment" or "Mushroom?"

    Thanks for any help......
    His car has black interior. Nice try, Ron!


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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post

    One thing Bill & this add proves is the current seller told me the car was originally from Germany then in USA. There was a service book with it with al stamps so I had no real reason to doubt him.... Until now
    Quite! Not that it matters, but I don't believe this car was ever in the US. The land of the free is the most difficult country to import a car. Unless it was a show car, but I doubt that.

    Btw, I feel your struggle in ordering parts from Ireland. What's deal there with MB dealers? Can't you order from them? Have you tried from the mainland UK?

    Welcome to the forum!
    Last edited by bing; 04-06-2016 at 04:52 PM.
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgo_Chris View Post
    On my first 500e the rear overhead/vanity light in the cabin would drain the battery....it would kill it overnight.
    Without it beeing on?

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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by bing View Post
    Quite! I don't believe this car was ever in the US. The land of the free is the most difficult country to import a car. Unless it was a show car, but I doubt that.

    Btw, I feel your struggle in ordering parts from Ireland. What's deal there with MB dealers? Can't you order from them? Have you tried from the mainland UK?
    There are 2 MB main agents here in Northern Ireland- all items at top list price. It makes buying parts very expensive but most of the time I just take it in the chin for the convenience.

    The parts prices in the USA are about half of what we pay here- no kidding. I have found a company (Genuine Autoparts) who ship here from Germany and the prices are about 30% less than my main dealer here. It just takes a little longer to get here but it is genuine MB parts the same as my dealer.

    For example that lower harness- my local dealer with discount was £229! Genuine Autoparts price is £168 for the same item. I'm not sure what you guys get it for in the US but I'm sure it lets than both of those prices

  73. #53
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Actually, for the lower harness at least, your price is not that bad. In 10.2015, I paid $220USD for a lower harness from MB Gainesville (MB Dealer), which at current rates translates to about £156.

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  75. #54
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    This car would have been made during June & July of 1992, so it would have been a very late 1992 model. Essentially the end of the model year run. It left Rossle-Bau in July of 1992.

    BTW my database has records of this car going back to October of 2005.

    Here are my detailed notes:

    Seller "abbam" from 500e.com. Admitted flaws: Some rust inside the right side passengers door inside (needs new seal for door); some rust on roof (Small amount); small scratch on drivers side rear bumper; small scratch on the front bonnet Mercedes-Benz emblem; Drivers electric headrest not working nor is there a button for it (I can hear the motor but the headrest doesn’t go up and down. Maybe need to connect a cable I don’t have the time); air conditioning doesn’t blow ice cold (probably a regass I don’t have the time); Passengers heated seat rapid heating function light doesn’t turn on (bulb?) although seat heats up. Car has AMG E60 suspension. Updated stereo. 18" wheels.
    Since you guys are helping me find the history of the car I will give a quick update on the current condition of this car as it stands today for your records;


    The rust to the passenger door is not evident- this must have been repaired.


    The entire car has been re-sprayed. This evening I am leaving the car with a professional bodyshop who will wet flat & buff the car to perfect the paint finish (inc door jambs etc) in the coming days.


    The driver’s headrest is still not operational. The motor buzzes on both direction of the switch. I will repair the mech soon as per the DIY on here. The Headrest switch button was still missing but I have replaced it with a new MB button already.


    Air Con does not blow ice cold. However I will be having the Air Con system evacuated, vacuum tested for leaks, Oiled & re-gassed shortly. Hopefully it will function after that.


    The Passenger seat did not light both red lights. However some regular use of the car since I bought it just over a week ago has this functioning again.


    The car still has the 18 BBS Wheels- which are fitted with 4x new Y Rated Tyres all around. I may replace the wheels shortly with new.


    The Stereo install was missing. I have fitted a USB Sony unit (Not to flashy looking) as I am not interested in ICE really. The car had the 2 large rear speakers- which has cut through the parcel deck. I removed them last night- I will bond in some metal over the cut out & replace the rear parcel shelf trim too. I have already pulled all the huge silly speaker cables out from under the mats.


    I had the car on a 2 post lift- no fluid leaks anywhere at all. The underbody Waxoyl mentioned in the add as done by pro’s does indeed look very good & fresh. However I see the driver’s side rear arch has some rust forming- I will repair this very soon.


    The E60 suspension appears factory or at least genuine parts. All in great condition we went through the car thoroughly. The only thing I noted was the shifter linkage bushing on the gear selector is totally MIA (New one on order) and the Exhaust heat shield is breaking loose.


    Looking the pics on that old Ebay add & the details- it appears the car had a performance exhaust at that time. This has been replaced with a new MB exhaust some years ago. I do intend to have a custom stainless exhaust system made for the car within the next year or two.


    The antenna is still stuck out- non functioning. I have a new Hirchmann unit ready to fit.

  76. #55
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    This is our old car and it sold for a song at below £6k back in 2005. To be honest these cars had zero demand at the time and Joe was the only person who came to view it. He subsequently passed away and since his passing the car has been sitting around with his cousin.

    I will respond in more detail tonight however my uncle did the underbody sealing and the hand built exhaust - he is a mechanic.

    I actually bought the exhaust back and it now sits on my 1992 500E. It sounds mean! We can talk about how you can make another one. The original exhaust box went back on and it was in very good condition at the time.

    E60 AMG suspension was there when we bought the car. Could have been added after (i.e. not factory) but it is very rare. NLA now.

    The parcel shelf was cut out when we bought the car so we fit two speakers in the rear deck and wired it through the car.

    Will revert tonight in full

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  78. #56
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    Re: New E500 Owner- HELP! Battery drain problems

    Quote Originally Posted by e500.org View Post
    This is our old car and it sold for a song at below £6k back in 2005. To be honest these cars had zero demand at the time and Joe was the only person who came to view it. He subsequently passed away and since his passing the car has been sitting around with his cousin.

    I will respond in more detail tonight however my uncle did the underbody sealing and the hand built exhaust - he is a mechanic.

    I actually bought the exhaust back and it now sits on my 1992 500E. It sounds mean! We can talk about how you can make another one. The original exhaust box went back on and it was in very good condition at the time.

    E60 AMG suspension was there when we bought the car. Could have been added after (i.e. not factory) but it is very rare. NLA now.

    The parcel shelf was cut out when we bought the car so we fit two speakers in the rear deck and wired it through the car.

    Will revert tonight in full
    Thanks for the fantastic info! Sorry to hear about the previous owner's passing. I'm looking forward to the update later- thanks so much

    It's great to learn more about the car I will endeavour to keep you guys updated with it also as I restore / enjoy it.

    It's great that it still sports the E60 Suspension- I will leave that in the car for sure. Who knows what that cost to convert on the car....... alot!

    I seen a Magnaflow 500E before- 2phast I think...... It looked & sounded fantastic. I have a 3 inch magnaflow middle silencer & backbox I will create a system with for my E36 build which I was going to mirror from 2phast's design.

    For the E500 I would maybe go the Magnaflow route too. My brother has colleagues who are professional Tig welders they would be able to weld the pipes for me. I would also remove those loose heat shields from the downpipes and wrap the pipes in exhaust heat wrap to protect the underbody from heat. When the time comes for that I will be sure to ask you guys for your system recommendations.

    Also, on looking through the great DIY info on here I have seen the common failure point of the lower harness- like the pic attached. I'll find out this weekend all being well what condition mine is in - fingers crossed that's where the car's battery problem lies
    8edc356c2460463ef8d692e6236bbcd2.jpg

  79. #57
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Well I got the car back from the Bodyshop after the wet sand & machine polish- the difference in the car is amazing! When I got it home I used a Meguire’s swirl remover, Ultimate Polish & Gold class wax- the car gleams all over, the paint is like glass. The appearance of the 500E went from the ‘presentable’ category to pristine. See the Pic- it’s hard to get how good the paint looks on camera really!

    I haven’t got the car up on stand yet for the lower harness removal. The order for the parts was placed about 11 days ago & it still hasn’t been dispatched from Germany by Genuine Autoparts. They have all in except for the upper harness (Lower harness is on a later separate order). I will wait until I know they have received the upper harness & dispatched it to me before I start removing stuff from the car.

    I got on with replacing the passenger door lock mech which finally has the central locking 100% function as it should. When I bought the car not a single door would lock on unlock with the key. Now all 3 key slots have been oiled & released and the faulty jamming mech replaced. I also added a Category 1 Alarm / immobiliser which means the central locking now also functions with a key fob too. And the passenger door power mirror switch was also broken which meant adjusting the mirror was a faf of rolling the window down & leaning over to manually move it around. That switch was replaced today also.

    I also took a look under the oil cap to see if the oil tubes have been updated yet- happily they have! Metal tubes in there already.

    The rear callipers were painted red but the fronts were the usual silver cast. Looking closer at the fronts they are very big brakes- I suspect these have been upgraded also- see the pics. Are these stock for a 500E or are they from an E500? (I’ll get better pics soon as I have matt aluminium colour calliper paint ordered for all 4 calipers)

    I realise that the headlamps are obviously not 500E items. I still need to decide if I am to leave the car in E500 guise or return to original 500E trim. (Bonnet & boot) Regarding the headlamps are there proper 500E headlamps available new from Hella or MB which have the beam pattern correct for a RHD country? I guess in the facelift format for right now. If anyone knows the part numbers I would really appreciate your help in finding the correct lamps for the car that will work here in Ireland's roads.

    IMG_0694.JPGIMG_0703.JPGIMG_0702.JPGIMG_0701.JPG
    Last edited by JC220; 04-10-2016 at 12:33 PM.

  80. #58
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    As far as I know, the right-side traffic country (UK+Japan+ANZ+Hong Kong etc.) 500E lights are no longer available from MB.

    I believe that GSXR may have references for the RHD headlight part numbers. I know there is some information posted to the forum about it.

    Bing may also be a good reference for this.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

  81. #59
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Front brakes appear to be the late 036 brakes, 320x30mm, which are a very nice upgrade from the early/smaller 300x28.


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  83. #60
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I think facelift lens' are NLA for left hand traffic such as UK and Ireland.
    You could check part number:
    A124 820 60 66
    A124 820 59 66

    However, complete headlamps are still available as of 2weeks ago for £246+vat.each. In any case if you want do it properly, with correct aim, you need the complete lamps as the reflectors are LH traffic specific as well. Changing the lens alone won't really cut it..BTDT.

    Can't find bloody part numbers at the moment but will revert. Unless GSXR has in his files?
    1994 E fünfhundert (170kkm sold )
    1997 S 600 L (164kmiles sold )
    2004 ML270 (64kmiles remap oil burner sold)
    2001 CLK55 AMG (79kmiles)

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