Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

  1. #1
    Intl 500E GTG coordinator 195910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,688

    C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Hi Guys,

    Anyone have a detailed source of info about these cars?

    All Three use the legendary M119 Block. All three are 24Hr Lemans & Sport-cars championship Winners.
    The C11 set the fastest top speed on Lemans ever (400 km/h)

    C9 & C11 use the 5.0L M119 but Twin Turbo Charged, output of 950PS !!

    CLK-LM Uses a Natural aspirated M119 with an output of 600ps. The original CLK-GTR (Won the GT series twice) used a 6L N/A V12 unit, but this was considered not reliable enough to run 24hr in lemans, thus the M119 was used.

    Question is.. How did they get 600PS out of a naturally aspirated M119?

  2. #2
    E500E Guru KarlC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego Ca
    Posts
    1,876

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Clk-lm
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

    Past Cars - 1994 E500 - 2003 CL600 V12TT by SPEEDRIVEN - 1994 E500 - 1995 E320 Cab - 1988 BMW M6 - 1994 E320 Cab

  3. #3
    E500E Guru KarlC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego Ca
    Posts
    1,876

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    C9/11
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1993 500E - 040 / 271 - Porsche Type 2758 ~~~~ 1971 250C Ivory / Cognac Leather

    Past Cars - 1994 E500 - 2003 CL600 V12TT by SPEEDRIVEN - 1994 E500 - 1995 E320 Cab - 1988 BMW M6 - 1994 E320 Cab

  4. #4
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,674

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 195910
    Question is.. How did they get 600PS out of a naturally aspirated M119?
    Most likely they revved it to the moon. 600hp isn't too hard if you spin it to 9000rpm and don't care about how much torque is produced between idle and 4000rpm. Fun on the racetrack but it would be a dog in a street car around town...

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

  5. #5
    Intl 500E GTG coordinator 195910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,688

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    I am finding very little info, But the CLK-LM M119 has a compression ratio of ~ 12:1. I will try to find info on the RPM

  6. #6
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,674

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    The CLK-LM shown in the photos above does not appear to have normal M119 cylinder heads, or it's not a M119 engine - can't say for sure. The C9/11 does appear to use normal M119 heads, at least externally.

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

  7. #7
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    I've wondered about this for sometime. There are free tuning software. For high rpm, you need to keep the velocity down with a larger diameter. I wondered if they used larger valves. A 6.0 liter is 100mm. A 4 inch Arao heads use bigger valves and get 650 for street use(limiting rpm to 7,000). Bet with 12:1, you are also a whole slew of different parameters of timing, fuel type, etc.
    Wonder if the port angles were changed. Never seen any details at all. Anyone got a copy of the SAE paper which were written on the M119 and variable cam timing development? I think there were 3 papers.

  8. #8
    E500E Guru 036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Flensburg, D.
    Posts
    1,884

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    M119 Sauber, more pics and video.
    http://benzclub.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=230742

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    S.E. England
    Posts
    421

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Anyone got a copy of the SAE paper which were written on the M119 and variable cam timing development? I think there were 3 papers.
    This one is available from SAE...

    Paper Number: 891990
    Date Published: 1989-09-01
    DOI: 10.4271/891990

    Citation:

    Grohn, M. and wolf, K., "Variable Valve Timing in the new Mercedes-Benz Four-Valve Engines," SAE Technical Paper 891990, 1989, doi:10.4271/891990.

    Author(s):

    Michael Grohn - Mercedes-Benz AG
    Klaus wolf - Mercedes-Benz AG

    Abstract:

    The valve timing of internal-combustion engines usually represents a compromise with regard to the requirements placed on power output and torque. This paper describes the development of a system for variable valve timing, taking the new Mercedes-Benz 4-valve engines as an example. Gas exchange calculation and tests carried out on a modified 4-cylinder engine have demonstrated that with two intake valve times and one specified exhaust valve time virtually the best possible torque characteristics combined with high power output can be achieved. Intake valve timing is adjusted dependent on load and engine speed by turning the intake chamshaft using a hydraulic-mechanically acting camshaft adjuster, whose functional principles are described in detail.
    Jim
    1992 No Sun Roof, EVO II's
    May 1991 Facelifted, Renntech Front Anti-Roll Bar, Wiechers Front Strut Brace, 722.370 Gearbox, 2.65 Differential

  10. #10
    I'm "special"! Jelmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Huizen, The Netherlands
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,008

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Holy cow. That linked youtube movie speaks of 12,000 RPM!

  11. #11
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    How about this one:
    The Mercedes-Benz Group C Engines for the World Sports Prototype Racing Championships 1989 and 1990

    Date Published: 1992-02-01Paper Number: 920674
    DOI: 10.4271/920674


    Citation:

    Hiereth, H., Baehrens, W., Müller, W., and Withalm, G., "The Mercedes-Benz Group C Engines for the World Sports Prototype Racing Championships 1989 and 1990," SAE Technical Paper 920674, 1992, doi:10.4271/920674.

    Author(s):

    Hermann Hiereth - Mercedes-Benz AG
    W.D. Baehrens - Mercedes-Benz AG
    Willi Müller - Mercedes-Benz AG
    Gert Withalm - Mercedes-Benz AG

    View All CollapseAbstract:

    The M119 HL, a twin turbocharged V8-5 I-engine, was developed by Mercedes-Benz AG for Group C World Championship Race events based on the production engine used for the Mercedes-Benz passenger car range. *
    Due to the fuel consumption limitation for Group C-Cars - 51 litre/ 100 km - a high efficiency race engine was required to achieve the target fuel consumption during race events using a commercially available “pump” fuel.
    Given these restrictions, the latest version of the M119 HL-engine had a power output of 530 kW and minimum brake specific fuel consumption values of 235 - 260 g/kWh over the engine speed range.
    This paper discusses the conceptual ideas behind the design of such a high-performance engine with optimized fuel consumption, especially concerning turbocharging and engine management.
    Furthermore, the development of the engine's mechanical components is shown in comparison to the series production engine design.

  12. #12
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Injection and Ignition System of the M 104 and M 119 Engines

    Date Published: 1989-09-01Paper Number: 892007
    DOI: 10.4271/892007


    Citation:

    Strauss, W. and Behnke, H., "Injection and Ignition System of the M 104 and M 119 Engines," SAE Technical Paper 892007, 1989, doi:10.4271/892007.

    Author(s):

    Wolfgang Strauss - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
    Horst Behnke - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO

    Abstract:

    The electronic fuel injection and ignition control units on the engines of the new Mercedes-Benz SL roadsters were further developed on the basis of the tried and tested control units. Introducing a communication interface between both ECU's has permitted coordinated functions such as maximum speed limitation. The ignition control unit contains an adaptive closed-loop anti-knock control algorithm for each individual cylinder.

  13. #13
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Bodies and Structures
    Chassis
    Design Engineering and Styling
    Electrical, Electronics and Avionics
    Environment
    Fuels and Energy Sources
    Human Factors and Ergonomics
    Interiors, Cabins and Cockpits
    Maintenance and Aftermarket
    Management and Product Development
    Manufacturing
    Materials
    Noise, Vibration and Harshness
    Parts and Components
    Power and Propulsion
    Quality, Reliability and Durability
    Safety
    Tests and Testing
    Transportation Systems
    Vehicles and Performance
    SAE Home>
    Papers>
    By Event>
    Passenger Car Conference & ExpositionThe New Camshaft Adjustment System by Mercedes-Benz--Design and Application in 4-Valve Engines

    Date Published: 1990-09-01Paper Number: 901727
    DOI: 10.4271/901727


    Citation:

    Grohn, M., "The New Camshaft Adjustment System by Mercedes-Benz--Design and Application in 4-Valve Engines," SAE Technical Paper 901727, 1990, doi:10.4271/901727.

    Author(s):

    Michael Grohn - Mercedes-Benz AG

    View All CollapseAbstract:

    The valve timing of internal-combustion engines usually represents a compromise with regard to the requirements placed on power output and torque.

  14. #14
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    The New 5-Liter 8-Cylinder Engine with 4-Vaiwe Technology for the Mercedes-Benz 500 SL

    Date Published: 1989-09-01Paper Number: 892006
    DOI: 10.4271/892006


    Citation:

    Frey, J., Ohiendorf, R., and Strauber, H., "The New 5-Liter 8-Cylinder Engine with 4-Vaiwe Technology for the Mercedes-Benz 500 SL," SAE Technical Paper 892006, 1989, doi:10.4271/892006.

    Author(s):

    Jürgen Frey - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
    Rolf Ohiendorf - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
    Hans-Jürgen Strauber - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO

    View All CollapseAbstract:

    The 5-liter V8 ligth-alloy engine presented by Mercedes-Benz in the new 500 SL at the motor show in Geneva in March 1989 is a new development on the basis of the 8-cylinder engines which have proved themselves for many years

  15. #15
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,674

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    Any chance we could get these in PDF format...?

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

  16. #16
    "Nit-Picky and
    Bitter Mechanic"
    jhodg5ck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lilburn, GA
    Posts
    2,241

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    that looks like the Indy/Penske engine that made over 1000hp when cranked up.
    Blue Ridge Mercedes Jonathan Hodgman
    Mercedes Repair Atlanta
    http://www.blueridgemb.com/
    08 E63 05 E55 Estate 95 S600 94 SL700 93 500E Brumos/RTech 92 500E T/R 93 500E (122)
    91 560SEC ECE 87 Hammer Coupe, Sedan and Wagon 6.0L 32V 86 560SEL AMG 6.0L 32V

  17. #17
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    yes copies are still available.

    I think it's about $22 per paper. Unless we have a list member whom is a student member of SAE.


    Michael

  18. #18
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,702

    Re: C9/C11 Suaber & The CLK-LM ?

    I was thinking into it a bit more-

    Wonder if anyone can find the authors on linkin or german equivalent site? I know my company has a general email format.

    These guys KNEW and can answer more about M119's than anyone else is my guess.


    Michael

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •