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View Full Version : Testing 400e & 500e in M. enthusiast 2004.



mbforever
12-30-2012, 05:35 AM
thang

superstar
12-30-2012, 07:16 AM
Great! Thanks for the up.

mistermiata
12-30-2012, 08:32 AM
Thats one I've never read before......great article, thanks for posting!

Rudy
01-05-2013, 03:34 AM
totally enjoyed reading - thanks for posting!

DerFuror
01-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Notable quotes from this article,

“The 500E is extreme – a brutal reminder to the motoring public that Mercedes-Benz builds the best cars in the world.”

and,

“…the 500E. This was – and may still be – the best car in the world, plain and simple.”

The final decision to seek out my 500E was pretty much based on those same perceptions. Similarly, I painfully find it a damn shame each time a beat-down, neglected & abused 500E appears in the Sales ads. What a waste of one of the finest cars ever made.

mistermiata
01-06-2013, 11:45 AM
“…the 500E. This was – and may still be – the best car in the world, plain and simple.”


Jean Lindamood from Automobile Magazine also claimed the 500E the best car in the world in an article she wrote when it first came out.....I will never forget that article, I'm sure Gerry has it in the archives..... (http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?381-04-1992-Automobile-Magazine)

:allhail:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=286&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1311980221

szvook
01-16-2013, 06:53 PM
The quote I liked was: "Order a 400E Sportline and you've got, well, this -right? Wrong, very very wrong." How many times have I read "A 400E is 75% of a 500E"....yeah and pigs fly.

Jelmer
01-17-2013, 03:26 AM
I disagree. A 400E is 75% of a 500E. Just as a 200D is 75% of a 400E ;-)

Taxi Driver
01-17-2013, 04:29 AM
75%!? Maybe that can be stated by comparing bit by bit. When I compare the 400E420 to the 500E500 almost every item
differing them apart can be changed simply by bolting off and on. The only few structural parts that has to be welded on as far
as I know are, the radiator/stabilizing support/bar, front LCA rear stiffening bar/brake support and the rear fenders/wings.

Anyhow, a 034 newer can be a 036 because the historybooks tell us what really happened. The 034 is a great car on it's own
and I nowadays really appreciate it but it will however allways stand in the shadow of it's Big Brother..........Roger

NotaBene
03-10-2013, 04:49 PM
I'm going to wade into this 034 vs 036 discussion, starting with a disclaimer- in an ideal world, I'd rather have a 500E500 than my E420.

I'd also rather have a chiselled, 11% bodyfat physique than the one I do, but there are parallels between the two preference streams.

Am I willing to make the sacrifices necessary to make them happen?

With the rarity of the 500E500 comes some degree of responsibility, I think, to the entire community. I requires a greater commitment from the owner, because you hold a piece of history.

With my E420, although rarer than the 300E320, few people are going to care much if I let it get a little dirtier. I will keep it and maintain it to my standard, without having to feel guilt.

The debate about whether the 034 is 75% of the 036 has no definitive answer. To some owners of the 500E, the differences are not measurable, cannot be defined by slalom numbers, 0-60 times, spring rates, or burled walnut surfaces. It is the soul of the car that ultimately defines it, and without question, the soul of the 500E500 is unique.

But there is an argument to be made that all of the W124 models share a certain quality.

If you had taken any other chassis designation, from any manufacturer in the world, and applied the same research, modifications, and build quality, would you have the equivalent?

The 500E500 is a blend of the two. The excellence of the W124, married to the sublime efforts that made it what it finally became.

To dismiss the 400E420 is to also dismiss the W124 part of that equation. It is like standing on the shoulders of a giant, then belittling the giant for not being able to see as far as you can.

I've read a lot about humility and respect on various automotive forums. I'd like to think they are more than just buzzwords.

Acroduster
12-28-2015, 09:45 AM
NotaBene, that's one of the best posts I've seen on an automotive board. Bravo.

500AMM
01-01-2016, 06:46 AM
75%!? Maybe that can be stated by comparing bit by bit. When I compare the 400E420 to the 500E500 almost every item
differing them apart can be changed simply by bolting off and on. The only few structural parts that has to be welded on as far
as I know are, the radiator/stabilizing support/bar, front LCA rear stiffening bar/brake support and the rear fenders/wings.

Anyhow, a 034 newer can be a 036 because the historybooks tell us what really happened. The 034 is a great car on it's own
and I nowadays really appreciate it but it will however allways stand in the shadow of it's Big Brother..........Roger
I think it is more on the structural side. The rear frame beams have reinforcements inside. This is not visible, you have to cut the frame to see it. This is one of the main reasons that the 036 withstand higher torsion forces, which makes a huge difference on the handling.

-a-

Taxi Driver
01-02-2016, 05:19 AM
I think it is more on the structural side. The rear frame beams have reinforcements inside. This is not visible, you have to cut the frame to see it. This is one of the main reasons that the 036 withstand higher torsion forces, which makes a huge difference on the handling.

-a-

Really.... that needs to be examined, please be more specific, You mean the rear suspension auxilliary frame, right? Roger

TerryA
01-02-2016, 07:57 AM
Thanks for the great article.

500AMM
01-04-2016, 08:31 AM
I think it is more on the structural side. The rear frame beams have reinforcements inside. This is not visible, you have to cut the frame to see it. This is one of the main reasons that the 036 withstand higher torsion forces, which makes a huge difference on the handling.

-a-


Really.... that needs to be examined, please be more specific, You mean the rear suspension auxilliary frame, right? Roger

Hi Roger,

I picked up this information from the mechanic who rebuilt my Limited, which is a spliced car done back in 2000. At that time it was even more extreme import tax on high powered cars here in Norway, so several 036s was imported and spliced with totalled W124 cars to save tax. The donor car was normally a regular W124 which was condemned, but could be fully repaired by authorized MB workshops. Later on it became prohibited to do comprehensive chassis repairs affecting the main substructure, but it was possible to replace the entire chassis as a complete repair. Chassis replacements has been done on a very few 036, among others the Brabus 6.5 we have here.

As for splicing a 036, it was normally done along the original seams in the floor section under the rear seat, plus replacing the entire roof. This way you got a 036 front end while the rear end still was a regular W124. The mechanic who rebuilt my Limited told he had done 2-3 spliced 036s and all were done this way, also any other 036 rebuilds he knew about to that date. My Limited was his final rebuild and the only Limited he has done, so he decided to assemble this car as close as ever possible to the MB & Porsche production specs – including the 036 specific reinforcement parts.

The reinforcement parts are located in the rear substructure. I have enclosed EPC screenshots of the rear substructure for both my Limited and the donor car which is a '85 300 Diesel. Most parts in the rear substructure are 036 specific, and it may be for dimensional reasons related to the wider track and interfacing the wider body panels etc… But item #75, #89, #92 is specifically named reinforcement and applicable for all W124 V8 models, and they're not present on regular W124 chassis.

These reinforcment parts are next made to fit the other 036 specific substructure parts, so it may not be as simple as just weld them onto a regular W124 chassis without additional mods. So, based on this it is a bit more behind rebuilding a 036, or converting a regular S124 stationwagon, where the body panels appear to be the simplest task into this.

:-)
-a-

TerryA
01-04-2016, 08:48 AM
Hi Arnt,

I hate to ask this question and forgive me if it has already been asked but is your "Limited" considered a salvaged car with these modifications? Just asking I know it's a beauty but would like to know how Norway titled it.

500AMM
01-04-2016, 09:26 AM
Hi Arnt,

I hate to ask this question and forgive me if it has already been asked but is your "Limited" considered a salvaged car with these modifications? Just asking I know it's a beauty but would like to know how Norway titled it.

No problem, Terry. :-)

Norway doesn't have a system separating partly damaged and/or repaired cars, regardless of what the repair would be. Repaired, modified or converted cars has to pass technical approval, that is the fundamental basis to bring a vehicle into public traffic. If the car is condemned it can be repaired dependent on what the repair is, because condemnation is based on both safety and an economical aspect. On the other hand, it is not possible to register an imported car from US having a salvage title. But I should really like to see a historical register here like Carfax etc..

Modified and converted vehicles is a bit different. If the mods affects suspension geometry which next may influence the handling, it is of high concerns. Next comes weight increase, increased power and brakes which goes hand in hand. We can basically apply to the authorities for any kind of mods, but it has to be approved technically some way. When the mods is approved it will be added to the main Technical Registry for vehicles.

My Limited has additional information in that Technical Registry about the rebuild;
- '85 300 Diesel repaired by replacing the front end.
- The car is upgraded to E500 specifications.
- The E500 VIN is striked over and the 300 Diesel VIN is engraved above.

samiam44
01-04-2016, 09:55 AM
"I think it is more on the structural side. The rear frame beams have reinforcements inside. This is not visible, you have to cut the frame to see it. This is one of the main reasons that the 036 withstand higher torsion forces, which makes a huge difference on the handling."

I thought it was the R129 for both cars. Hummmm

TerryA
01-04-2016, 10:00 AM
Arnt,

Thanks for the clarification. I just know that here in the USA it would be s big problem. Sometimes our cars are titled unjustly as salvaged because the insurance carrier does not want to foot the bill for repairs. An example might be a car that was stolen and stripped and could be fixed just by replacing parts.

With the E500E here in the states it doesn't take much to get totaled by your insurance company.

I guess the fix for us anyway would be to have collector car insurance if you can get it. OR Drive Carefully

Terry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

500AMM
01-04-2016, 10:01 AM
I think it is more on the structural side. The rear frame beams have reinforcements inside. This is not visible, you have to cut the frame to see it. This is one of the main reasons that the 036 withstand higher torsion forces, which makes a huge difference on the handling.

-a-




I thought it was the R129 for both cars. Hummmm

Michael, I think that is more on the suspension parts, while the chassis/structural parts numbers are 124 specific.