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View Full Version : ABS+ASR Lights on - DTC says modules faulty. Which replacement modules do fit?



Christian_K
10-13-2013, 12:42 PM
One of the few issues left on my car is that both ASR and ABS lamps are on.
I have however NO Limp mode. Car runs great so far - but obviously without any working ABS nor ASR.

I checked DTCs with STAR and saw that both for the EGAS and the ABS/ASR module, it says basically a faulty module (See attachments).
At the LH Modules the code says "no Can data receiving from E-Gas module".
I checked Base module fuses and they are OK. I also removed all modules and re-inserted them with no result.

So i want to replace both modules and give it a try. A seller over at ebay sells following module numbers and i would like to ask if they fit in my 06/1992 500E.

Egas: 1405453232
ASR: 0105452832

My Original Numbers, right now in the car are:
Egas: 1245452632
ASR: 0105459932

Thanks alot,
Christian

195910
10-13-2013, 12:50 PM
For E-Gas its 500E specific.
For ABS/ASR I think either W140 500 or R129 500 with work.. will need to check the EPC

Glen
10-13-2013, 01:20 PM
Make absolutely sure the modules are completely seated...use a rubber mallet if necessary. I had a similar problem with one of my cars that I spent many, many hours troubleshooting. In the end, it was simply that the abs/ASR module was slightly out of place.

Christian_K
10-13-2013, 02:14 PM
Im gonna reseat them tomorrow once again.
Any further input about module compatibility is highly welcome.

Jelmer
10-14-2013, 04:24 AM
Don't you have another 500E nearby? I'd recommend swapping with another car first!

Congrats on getting it to work again! I assume you're coming over soon to show it off? :D

Christian_K
10-14-2013, 05:37 AM
Don't you have another 500E nearby? I'd recommend swapping with another car first!

Congrats on getting it to work again! I assume you're coming over soon to show it off? :D
No, not that im aware of.
I'll maybe visit you next year. The car will only be registered for this winter (yes bad idea, but there are reasons for it).

I really wonder, why does it say the EGAS Module is faulty, but obviously it works. I can even manually open and close the throttle-flap via STAR.

Christian_K
10-22-2013, 01:22 PM
Update: I have no Luck. I guess the ASR at least is shot. Removed and reinsearted the Modules (all modules!) a couple of times. Pushed them down with a rubber mallet as suggested.

Maybe the EGAS function will be switched off when there is a ASR Module issue so my LH shows me that there is no CAN reception from EGAS-Module?
Before the Star showed me the ASR-Module as faulty, it was showing both ASR relais AND Module to be faulty. I replaced the the Relais (0 332 002 173) and now only the module remains.

I really really wonder though, as i first started the car up 2 years ago after i placed the first engine in it, there was no ASR issue. When i switched on the ignition, the triangle was lighting up. As i was driving the first few couple meters, i got the limp mode. Back then i replaced the switch behind the gas pedal and it solved the limp mode, but as soon as i did this, the triangle on the dash did not (or only for less than 1 second) lighten when switching on the ignition - and this remains until this day.

Is this a coincidence? What if the ASR module is NOT broken? Is there any fuse for ASR to check or anything?
Any guides what i could check and/or measure?

Also, IF the EGAS mnodule is shot/faulty, why does it work? I mean the electronic actuator is fully working....

gerryvz
10-22-2013, 01:25 PM
Check the power connection to the CAN from the battery in the trunk. Make sure the connection at the positive battery terminal is good and tight. Check your base module fuses. Remove and re-seat all four CAN modules.

What is the condition of your battery and charging system? What voltage are you getting at idle at the battery?

Any other codes that would trigger the ASR, such as neutral safety switch?

Have you checked your wheel sensors to make sure they are OK?

Cheers,
Gerry

Christian_K
10-22-2013, 01:52 PM
Check the power connection to the CAN from the battery in the trunk. Make sure the connection at the positive battery terminal is good and tight. Check your base module fuses. Remove and re-seat all four CAN modules.
All done. Multiple times re-seated all 4 modules and hammered them down with a rubber mallet.


What is the condition of your battery and charging system? What voltage are you getting at idle at the battery?
I get 14.5V at the battery on idle.


Any other codes that would trigger the ASR, such as neutral safety switch?
Brand new, really brand new and seated according to the WIS procedure with a 4mm shaft.


Have you checked your wheel sensors to make sure they are OK?
How to do this?
Problem is also, as soon as i clear the DTC with STAR, switch the ignition off and back on, the DTC is immediately reappearing without even moving the car a single inch. So does this rule out the sensors?
Also i checked the DTC sheet and if there would be a wheel sensor broken, it should actually show it with the digital DTCs...

Regarding fitment of ASR modules.:
I think i will give the most widely available one (0105452832) a try that was used from 1990 up to 1992 models W140s. One seller says the Number 0105452832 was indeed used in the W140 4.2, 5.0, W124 4.2 and R129 early 5.0.
Dave now sent me a PM telling me for my car the number 0135453632 will fit and this number was also used in early R129 500SLs.
So really i think i give the 0105452832 a try. I can get them off ebay and forums for 40-100€, which is "OK" i think.

gerryvz
10-22-2013, 02:54 PM
Remove each wheel. Then remove the two bolts that hold each wheel sensor to the brake caliper assembly (or hub, I can't remember). It's the OTHER electrical wire that goes to the wheel from the body of the car ... NOT the brake pad wear sensor wire that goes to the caliper, and NOT the hydraulic brake line. It's the THIRD line.

Clean any iron filings that are attracted to the magnet at the end of each sensor. Use brake cleaner or other solvent to remove any brake dust. Replace the two bolts with a touch of blue Loctite. I believe either 5mm or 6mm Allen bolts hold them onto the hub/caliper?

A code won't necessarily show a DIRTY sensor...only one that has a broken/interrupted electrical signal due to the circuit not having electrical continuity.

It's a good preventative measure to clean the wheel sensors anyway, periodically.

If your battery connection to the CAN (small wire on the + battery terminal) is even SLIGHTLY loose it can/will interrupt the connection intermittently to the CAN. Trust me on this - it doesn't have to be really even loose. Just make sure the connection is tight. The CAN power lead is held onto the positive terminal by its OWN nut.

I think you have an electrical power or ground issue, not necessarily a bad CAN module.

My experience has shown that it's most often the SIMPLEST explanation as to why electrical problems happen, not the most complex one.

Cheers,
Gerry

vatc5637
10-22-2013, 04:32 PM
Make absolutely sure the modules are completely seated...use a rubber mallet if necessary. I had a similar problem with one of my cars that I spent many, many hours troubleshooting. In the end, it was simply that the abs/ASR module was slightly out of place.

I am having this issue as well. Could someone be so kind as to describe/post a picture of where the ABS/ASR module is located in the car or engine compartment? I searched other threads and did not see any picture or description of its location. Thanks.

gerryvz
10-22-2013, 06:04 PM
The ABS/ASR module is located in the underhood CAN box. It is typically, and clearly marked "ASR 8/12 Zyl".

You can see it very clearly in Johan's post here (http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?4366-OWNER-johan-h&p=53574&viewfull=1#post53574).

The photo from the post:

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/images/imported/2013/10/193.jpg

Christian_K
10-29-2013, 05:03 PM
Well i tried to replace the ASR module today with one from a W140 S-class 500.
It does NOT fit stock into the W124 Can Box. I had to strip the modules apart and interchange their case/cover with each other.
After that it did fit and also my Star could communitcating with the module.
22532
How ever still the SAME DTC.
If i check the ASR DTCs it says "N30/1 broken", which is the module itself.
If i check the EGAS DTCs it says "No can receiving from N30/1 ASR" and EGAS live-data shows the same:

22530
Basically the very same as i had with the stock old ASR module.
So well, it might be the case that the 0105452832 is either also broken, does not fit into the CAN-System of a W124 or its a different issue.

The EGAS DTC in which it showed that the N40/1 is broken, is gone now. But around every 3rd time i read the DTCs of the EGAS Module after i cleared the codes and start the car, it shows the following DTC:
"050 - Safety Contact M16/1s1". When watching live-data in the EGAS module, sometimes the M16/1s1 really does switch from "on" to "off" or vice versa (cant remember).
Its every 1-2 minutes, without anyone pressing the pedal or moving the throttle linkage... STRANGE!

On top of that, when watching the live-data at the GM - Base Module, it shows only 11.8V at KL 15. At the same Time the Battery showed 12.4V. Is that maybe an issue???
22531
If so, where to check the can linings? Where is the + pole for it? Please show me pictures of it, otherwise im going nuts with that issue... :-)

Any ideas? Buy the correct ASR Module? (costs alot on german pages).
Anyone might want to lend me yours?

bing
10-30-2013, 06:08 AM
Doesn't appear if anyone confirmed if indeed this ASR module (0105452832) is compatible ? Looking at ebay there are a few selling 0135453932 which all claim W140/W124/R129 V8 M119s compatible as here : http://www.ebay.de/itm/1993-1998-MERCEDES-BENZ-R129-500SL-SL500-ASR-ABS-CONTROL-MODULE-ECM-0135453932-/281124742340?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item41745724c4

The one u got and MADE to fit might be ASR specific only and not ASR/ABS which 036's have ? Hey,,but what do I know!!

FWIW...A friend and I went nuts trying to solve this similar issue to yours , ABS/ASR lamps on and revs hanging at 5000rpm. In the end we swapped/replaced the ASR module and all was fine.

Christian_K
10-30-2013, 09:01 AM
Doesn't appear if anyone confirmed if indeed this ASR module (0105452832) is compatible ? Looking at ebay there are a few selling 0135453932 which all claim W140/W124/R129 V8 M119s compatible as here : http://www.ebay.de/itm/1993-1998-MERCEDES-BENZ-R129-500SL-SL500-ASR-ABS-CONTROL-MODULE-ECM-0135453932-/281124742340?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item41745724c4

The one u got and MADE to fit might be ASR specific only and not ASR/ABS which 036's have ? Hey,,but what do I know!!

FWIW...A friend and I went nuts trying to solve this similar issue to yours , ABS/ASR lamps on and revs hanging at 5000rpm. In the end we swapped/replaced the ASR module and all was fine.
Yes no one confirmed it and it really didnt fit. So i can confirm it does not fit :-) However i tried to make it fit without any good result in solving my issue.
The module you linked is in the US. Yes it is cheaper than the one in germany, but i takes probably two weeks until it arrives. Then i have to drive that silly way to the next customs bureau and whatnot.
But yes, the DTC is actually clear. It says N30/1 faulty and so i have to get a fitting module for my 500E and check it.

bing
10-30-2013, 10:24 AM
Christian, had a chat with W140.uk , Carl. He's normally quite well stocked with M119 modules but no "0135453932" , or 036 specific. (?) He also thinks that the one u obtained "0105452832" is ASR only and normally mated with "0105452532" ABS as he has here bottom of the pile: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-SR-Control-Unit-400-600-SE-SEL-0105452832-/150890814952?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2321cb1de8

Interestingly , Johan's http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?4366-OWNER-johan-h&p=53574&viewfull=1#post53574 has 0145450132 which says V12 and appears to work fine.

Arrrgh...these modules drive you bonkers ! Are they interchangeable, are there 140/129/124 specific, has it been superceded with another part # ??....yada yada! :wtf:

I got one more bloke, Chris mercman, checking for us. Will Let you know !

Christian_K
10-30-2013, 10:56 AM
Hey Bing, i just checked and "0135453632" is the correct number according to Daves anmd mine research....

bing
10-30-2013, 11:21 AM
Ok , so 3 interchangeable so far 0135453932/0135453632/0105459932, gives you an option then.. Few on ebay.de but are you willing to pay their prices if not 100% is the real cause? Tough I know..get that dutchie to pull his one out while it's in storage so you can test ...:rugby::rugby:

Christian_K
10-30-2013, 11:59 AM
Hey Bing, i just checked and "0135453632" is the correct number according to Daves anmd mine research....
Also, who knows if "013 545 94 32" will fit? According to some sellers they fit 400E/E420 and 500SL/SL500

bing
11-02-2013, 06:26 PM
Christian, sorry tried several places here and they don’t have any ASR modules based on the 3 part numbers above. Were you able to find one ?

Christian_K
11-03-2013, 05:35 PM
Christian, sorry tried several places here and they don’t have any ASR modules based on the 3 part numbers above. Were you able to find one ?
Yes i did :-)
Thanks alot.

@All:
Will all base modules of W140/W124/R129 V8s Fit?
I can get 0095459032 for 50€ working guaranteed. Maybe its the base Module thats faulty. I've read alot and on the non V8 Models, sudden module failure is often the Overvoltage-Protection-Relay thats faulty. So in the V8 Models the BaseModule has that role - maybe that will be shot.
I will buy now every module, if they are not faulty then i have some spare ones.

Christian_K
11-13-2013, 04:44 PM
I'm also about to give up on this car...
I tried now 3 different ASR modules and still the error code is that the ASR module is faulty. All other modules get Faulty can reception from the ASR module...
When i login into any of those ASR modules, i can see live-data/actual-values and they all work. I can also actuate some sort of pumps inside the ASR/ABS Valve-Block and whatnot. So those modules are not faulty i believe.

What can i do to fix that shitty issue? Is there any person out there with hints that can help me?
Can wiring is good. I replaced all fuses, battery is full, generator is charging as it should.

Has anyone wiring diagrams for the M119LH inside the W124 chassis? Especially for ASR and ABS??? I really need to get that fixed ASAP.

gerryvz
11-13-2013, 05:04 PM
Did you very very carefully examine all of the pins that the CAN modules plug into, to make sure there are no contact issues, bent pins, debris that is blocking the electrical connections? Did you remove the wiring beneath the pins to make sure all is OK there?

Glen
11-13-2013, 05:06 PM
You can also try removing the aluminum box completely and plug the modules directly into the connectors. This will eliminate the possibility that the modules aren't seating completely.

Christian_K
11-14-2013, 03:15 AM
Did you very very carefully examine all of the pins that the CAN modules plug into, to make sure there are no contact issues, bent pins, debris that is blocking the electrical connections? Did you remove the wiring beneath the pins to make sure all is OK there?
Yes i did. Even the cables that a running at the bottom of the module-box are looking very good and are still some sort of "elastic". All pins, or "pin holes" where the module later plugs into are looking perfect.


You can also try removing the aluminum box completely and plug the modules directly into the connectors. This will eliminate the possibility that the modules aren't seating completely.
Done that already. Its not a seating issue :-(

A friend that has a shop, which did my custom exhaust and some minor stuff, had a similar issue lately with an Audi car. It also showed a defective "traction control" sort of ECU/Module and they replaced it with a new part. DTC persisted and so they had to tear down half of the car, measuring every single cable and later found a broken cable somewhere in the car, that the diagnostics did not show with the computer... I really pray that that wont be the case with my car :-(

I have now bought a different base module that should fit also into the W124s. Its from an W140 though.
I really wonder though, my currently installed base module only has 3x10A fuses, while even genuine 500E Basemodules on ebay have 4x 10A fuses inside. Is that normal?

I do replace the base module because i have had some bad experience with failing Overvoltage protection relays in M104, M111 and M102 powered W124s that showed similar issues (intermittent failing modules, mostly EGAS). As soon as those relays were replaced, the cars ran better than ever before. And as we know, the Overvoltage protection relay is integrated into the base module on M119 powered W124, R129s, W140s.

Christian_K
06-21-2015, 01:56 PM
So gentlemen, to end this story finally, ASR+ABS issues are solved. WOW.
I was at Bernards garage shop last week and we checked some components that i had under suspicion. I was going so far to completely focus on the hydraulic parts as i could not believe all my modules are faulty. Still my ASR Light in the dash, the triangle, was only active for less than a second when switching on ignition. When the car runs it had both indicator ABS and ASR lights on.
I have 3 ABS/ASR Modules, 2 E-Gas Modules and couple of Base Modules, i even bought a good used TB that throws no codes, contrary to my current one that throws potentiomenter control codes and idle contact switch codes, but so far never triggered any limp mode.
With all modules, the ONLY code i have present in my System was that of the OP, means that ABS/ASR module defective (DTC Code 015 in ASR Module). All other modules showed under the live data that no CAN reception possible from the ABS/ASR Module.

So i checked to actuate any of the systems pumps with STAR, like the Pre-Charge Pump or the Return-Pump - none worked, STAR always says "Checking Relay A7/3K1" and then nothing happens. So i checked to start both pumps manually by applying 12V directly to them (almost broke my Hands at the pre-charge pump's connector under the brake fluid reservoir) with success! They were working - but not via STAR or the System itself. The Return Pump works by removing the upper Relay called "A7/3K2" at the Valve Block and bridging 87 and 30 (upper two holes).

So i was suspicious about the two Relays, so i went with both Relays and all ASR Modules to Bernards Shop and they were Working in a customers E60 AMG. So Bernard an me were clueless. He has done like many hundred or even more than 1000 cars equipped with M119/M120 engines and he knows all ASR issues normally - but my issue he could not pinpoint so quickly. So i retold him my story with the first broken engine that had as a root cause a loose Ground cable at the gearbox and after some starts the front small Ground cable at the Tandem Pump melted aways and the engine got ground over the LH ECU killing it, so all injectors were constantly open.
So he said most likely i have a short somewhere in the system and we would have to check each single line from the module box to its end. This is of course time intensive and costs money, so we opted to replace both ASR Harnesses, the one in the egine bay that goes to the pre-charge pump and connects to the large ABS/ASR valve block + plus the one that goes inside.

But he also said, get a used ABS/ASR Valve Block just in case. He said he never had the issue that a Valve Block was broken without throwing a code (mostly its the pressure switch inside or a constantly running return-pump). So i received it yesteray, put it in the car today and voila - Problem solved. My ABS/ASR Valve Block was indeed faulty. No Harness, no Modules, no ETA as root cause, not anything else - just that ABS/ASR valve block.

We can see here, that the early diagnose possibilities are indeed limited. The Modules says itself is faulty but instead it was something else.
Just a few years later with ME and ESP in my CL500 C140 series, i had a similar issue with a pressure switch and pre-charge pump but it was much easier to diagnose with STAR.

Jelmer
06-22-2015, 01:44 AM
And so ends the Christian-error-light-saga. It ran for nearly two years and will be dearly missed.

Well done :)

Stuttgarter
06-22-2015, 12:36 PM
Sorry I didn't see this a little earlier. I'm a former ABS engineer with Bosch. ASR is basically ABS in reverse and we were all in the same organization. I'm not sure I could have helped in this case but there is one thing I wanted to let everyone know. Do not replace an ASR controller with one from another car, even if it has the same engine. ABS/ASR is sensitive to many changes and even if you could run an ASR controller from an R129 500 in a W124 500, for example, it might function but the control would likely be very poor. The interventions would be early or late, and too strong or weak. Any changes in wheel weights, tire compounds or sizes, brake rotors/calipers/pads will impact the quality of the control. You can PM me if you have any specific questions.

Glad the Valve Block fixed the problem. There are many many valve specific fault codes and I'm surprised and disappointed one of those was not triggered. It could have saved a lot of time.