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Dortmunder
04-07-2014, 08:06 AM
Dear All here in this Forum,

as mentioned in a different thread here in this forum I am the new owner of Mosselman`s car, an E60 Limited.
I just got the car last week and I will add some pictures for your interest.
Looking forward seeing some of you during the annual Meeting starting in Bottrop.


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KarlC
04-07-2014, 01:02 PM
Very nice how did you find and end up with this rare car ??

Thx for sharing

bing
04-07-2014, 04:49 PM
Looking good !

Interesting how yours is fitted with AMG chrome tip exhaust and a third brake light. Do these show on the data card or retrofitted I wonder ?

Dortmunder
04-08-2014, 05:56 AM
Very nice how did you find and end up with this rare car ??

Thx for sharing

Hallo KarlC,

I actually got the contact from this forum, because someone found this car for sale in Norway and I was lucky to get the car from there.
Before that I read a lot here in this forum about the E60 and the Limited and by that way I found "the right" thread.
It is really a great car to drive in.

Dortmunder
04-08-2014, 06:01 AM
Looking good !

Interesting how yours is fitted with AMG chrome tip exhaust and a third brake light. Do these show on the data card or retrofitted I wonder ?

Hello bing,

I got the car with the AMG Chrome tip exhaust and it is also mentioned in the german papers, so I do not know, whether there were there from the beginning or not. I am still on the way to find out what comes with code 957 (AMG technical paket) except the engine, there is no overall data available even here in this Forum. And there is just code 957 listed without more Details.
Concerning the third brake light I do not have any idea either except the fact, that it is working, it came for me with the car but has no code in the datacard. Probably mounted later with the first owner.

bing
04-08-2014, 06:18 AM
Wiki page here on what comes with 957 code E60s :http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=E60_AMG_Overview

036
04-08-2014, 06:37 AM
Very sexy beast :D
Rare non smoking version...
Tell me, third break light- is it original?

Dortmunder
04-08-2014, 07:12 AM
Wiki page here on what comes with 957 code E60s :http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=E60_AMG_Overview

Yes, I saw the Wiki-Page but there is listed that the suspension and the muffler may be an option, I will look for the suspension after easter when I am going to clean up the bottom of the car.

Dortmunder
04-08-2014, 07:22 AM
Very sexy beast :D
Rare non smoking version...
Tell me, third break light- is it original?

I do not know anything about the third break light, but it was in the car when I bought it and it has a 124... no. After searching in the WWW this third break light was necessary in the US and somewhere elso but not in Germany, but it was very common to install them as an extra during the 90's and the german TÜV did not say anything about it last week.

bing
04-08-2014, 07:42 AM
AFAIK , third brake light was only on US 124 . Had one on mine too fitted by PO , think he just got one from US eBay.

036
04-08-2014, 07:57 AM
Sorry, didn´t read your comment first, was too exited :D
As far as i know ( correct me, if i´m wrong)- german 036 never had third break light....
What else said TÜV chaps?

gsxr
04-08-2014, 08:45 AM
Yes, I saw the Wiki-Page but there is listed that the suspension and the muffler may be an option, I will look for the suspension after easter when I am going to clean up the bottom of the car.
The muffler was optional and appears to be a Japan item. All code-957 E60's have the AMG suspension, not sure why that was shown as "optional" but I updated the Wiki entry. Non-code-957 cars which were modified post-delivery would have had the suspension as optional, but that is a totally different scenario.

:pc1:

Dortmunder
04-09-2014, 05:10 AM
The muffler seems to be a German part as well because it was written in my German "Kfz-Brief" right from the beginning including the different wheels. It is mentioned that it is possible to mount this muffler. There is nothing mentioned concerning the AMG suspension but the hight of the car is 1388mm which is 20mm lower than usual. I will have a look after easter about that.

Dortmunder
06-13-2014, 02:17 AM
3010130102
Just a short update to my car.
In the two pictures you can see the AMG wheels which are now mounted on the car. They had to be refurbished at all because they were not in a good shape when I bought them. Althought they look very nice to the car.
Concerning the AMG suspension it is not mounted in my car, just the normal E500/E60 Suspension so that I think that was an extra option at the time when the car was sold.
Looking forward seeing some of you in Bottrop on the 28th of June.

500AMM
09-23-2014, 10:16 AM
Karsten,

Of course your car has the AMG suspension! All E60 AMGs has its specific shocks & springs & front swaybar. AMG didn't make any options for the 036 models - except for that exh.muffler with square chrome tips, and the 300kmh speedo dials. So the only AMG parts made is exactly what your car has.

That 3rd brake light is a regular W124 part, BTW. But those AMG Aero wheels appears to have incorrect set-up. A Nautic Blue 500E was recently imported to Norway having 8,5" ET30 AMG Aeros, and that set-up looks very similar to what you have now. You should have 8,5" ET18 and 10" ET 17 which will give both a better stance and probably better handling too.

I spoke several times with Mosselmann on phone and E-mails, especially during the later 6 months prior to the sale. I can just assure that your car is 100% original, with no fuzzy Japan secrets behind it.

:star:
Arnt

Dortmunder
09-25-2014, 02:09 PM
Hello Arnt,
thank you for your statement. I had a look underneath the car the other day and could only find the E500 suspension. I had a look in the pricelist of those days as well and there was a difference to order the AMG package, with and without the AMG suspension. That is why I think I have the regular E500 suspension. While ordering the AMG suspension you would get the AMG wheels as well.
concerning the AMG wheels I bought the wheels which are mentioned in the "Brief". The bigger wheels would not have been my choice.
I spoke to the guy who sold the car to Mosselmann (Bernard Weiss) and he told me the whole stoty of the car. And I got most of the invoices during the live of the car which show that is a 100% Original.
I am very happy with the car and I have now fixed all minor things which where left.
Just wonderful.

best regards

bing
01-05-2016, 06:36 AM
Yes, I saw the Wiki-Page but there is listed that the suspension and the muffler may be an option, I will look for the suspension after easter when I am going to clean up the bottom of the car.


All code-957 E60's have the AMG suspension, not sure why that was shown as "optional"


There is nothing mentioned concerning the AMG suspension but the hight of the car is 1388mm which is 20mm lower than usual. I will have a look after easter about that.



Concerning the AMG suspension it is not mounted in my car, just the normal E500/E60 Suspension so that I think that was an extra option at the time when the car was sold.


Karsten,

Of course your car has the AMG suspension! All E60 AMGs has its specific shocks & springs & front swaybar. AMG didn't make any options for the 036 models - except for that exh.muffler with square chrome tips, and the 300kmh speedo dials. So the only AMG parts made is exactly what your car has.


Hello Arnt,
thank you for your statement. I had a look underneath the car the other day and could only find the E500 suspension. I had a look in the pricelist of those days as well and there was a difference to order the AMG package, with and without the AMG suspension. That is why I think I have the regular E500 suspension. While ordering the AMG suspension you would get the AMG wheels as well.

In trying to validate the above statements and claims I think I may have discovered that AMG suspension on E60s was indeed optional. Karsten is likely correct! Well, unless the data card is wrong based on this VIN WDB1240361C2063 which I randomly picked from the recent count. The option code is "786"AMG SPORTS SUSPENSION WITH 4 AMG LIGHT ALLOYRIMS AND WIDE TIRES /AMG-SPORTFAHRWERK M 4 AMG-L-FELGEN

I have not tried decoding others listed on the board but someone else may care to check if anymore comes up the same. ;)

Sorry bad photo but it's there.

500AMM
01-05-2016, 07:08 AM
In trying to validate the above statements and claims I think I may have discovered that AMG suspension on E60s was indeed optional. Karsten is likely correct! Well, unless the data card is wrong based on this VIN WDB1240361C2063 which I randomly picked from the recent count. The option code is "786"AMG SPORTS SUSPENSION WITH 4 AMG LIGHT ALLOYRIMS AND WIDE TIRES /AMG-SPORTFAHRWERK M 4 AMG-L-FELGEN

I have not tried decoding others listed on the board but someone else may care to check if anymore comes up the same. ;)

Sorry bad photo but it's there.



Wow - that was new to me, thanks for posting Bing. :-)

So, code 957 AMG-engineering package doesn't include the complete E60 AMG package. Confusing and disappointing IMO, quite a bummer that MB offered this is as an option. :|


-a-

Dortmunder
01-05-2016, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the Information, at least I was not wrong with my suspension, because you never know, what previous owner do.
I am a bit courious about the datacard because it says under 744 something with soft top?

bing
01-05-2016, 08:46 AM
I am a bit courious about the datacard because it says under 744 something with soft top?

Yeah this comes up quite a bit on some VINs, seen it many times. No idea why since there's no such thing on a 036.

gsxr
01-05-2016, 09:54 AM
That VIN (WDB1240361C2063) is missing the last two digits, the full VIN is: WDB1240361C206302
Additional 957+958 VIN's are in this thread: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8507

The official description I see for code 786 is "8.5 X 17 ET30/18 245/45, 3-PIECE (500 E = 30, R129 = ET18)" which is very different than "sport suspension". It also may be that in order to get code 786, you had to first have code 957 present, which is why the suspension was mentioned in the description for 786. (??)

I don't believe the presence of code 786 on some datacards and not others is conclusive evidence of the suspension not being included with code 957. All 124.036 chassis have ASR yet code 471 is not present on any (?) of the datacards. Other than people asking and theorizing if it was possible to get a code 957 without the suspension, I don't think there has been any evidence this actually happened. Has anyone personally observed a 957 car with stock suspension from the factory? Not saying it wasn't possible via special order or something, but so far the proof has been all circumstantial.

Finally, the descriptions in the EPC are not always accurate. The 744 Brilliant Silver showing as "DARK BLUE SOFTOP FABRIC" is a classic example. That is an option code description, not a color code description/name. 744 was not an option on the 124.036, it was a paint color. Kinda like 009 shows as "PHOTO". This primarily occurs with paint and interior color descriptions, but can also occur on some other option codes as well (786 is a prime example, IMO).

:grouphug:

bing
01-05-2016, 12:05 PM
That VIN (WDB1240361C2063) is missing the last two digits, the full VIN is: WDB1240361C206302
Additional 957+958 VIN's are in this thread: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8507

The official description I see for code 786 is "8.5 X 17 ET30/18 245/45, 3-PIECE (500 E = 30, R129 = ET18)" which is very different than "sport suspension". It also may be that in order to get code 786, you had to first have code 957 present, which is why the suspension was mentioned in the description for 786. (??)

I don't believe the presence of code 786 on some datacards and not others is conclusive evidence of the suspension not being included with code 957. All 124.036 chassis have ASR yet code 471 is not present on any (?) of the datacards. Other than people asking and theorizing if it was possible to get a code 957 without the suspension, I don't think there has been any evidence this actually happened. Has anyone personally observed a 957 car with stock suspension from the factory? Not saying it wasn't possible via special order or something, but so far the proof has been all circumstantial.

Finally, the descriptions in the EPC are not always accurate. The 744 Brilliant Silver showing as "DARK BLUE SOFTOP FABRIC" is a classic example. That is an option code description, not a color code description/name. 744 was not an option on the 124.036, it was a paint color. Kinda like 009 shows as "PHOTO". This primarily occurs with paint and interior color descriptions, but can also occur on some other option codes as well (786 is a prime example, IMO).

:grouphug:

Sorry my typo on the VIN initially :doh: but you get it in the photo from Vedoc. Dave, as you know the same option code will have varying descriptions depending on the model and year. As well as what you came up with i.e 8.5 x 17 et30/18..., the same code denotes 'AMG sportfarhwerk M AMG felgen" from 1992 to 1995 as per Vedoc system.

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/images/imported/2016/01/59.jpg



Need to decode a few more E60 VINs if 786 comes up on any.

gsxr
01-05-2016, 01:00 PM
Be careful with current MB definitions in VEDOC, EPC, or anything else. What matters is what the code meant when the car was built in 1994, not what shows up in a system 20+ years later. The original meaning could be lost or muddied during that time. Note that the code description I provided does not appear anywhere in your list, yet it makes the most sense in the context of a 1994 E60. Maybe it appears if you scroll down further?

:scratchchin:

500AMM
01-06-2016, 03:18 AM
Interesting information, but also disappointing with regard to MB's inconsistent designation methodics. My '92 is another example because the EPC datasheet list only 10 equipment codes which is 50% less than other 036s I've seen having the exact same equipment overall.

About that E60 AMG suspension, I hardly believe that someone using a fortune on a new E60 AMG skipped the specific suspension - simply spoken for what reason??
If those potential owners wanted a softer ride they acquired a S-class, which they probably already had in their fleet...;)

Strange things happened though - just like buying a Limited and skip the Birdseye wood and the special leather...:hammerhead:

Klink
01-06-2016, 07:51 AM
Be careful with current MB definitions in VEDOC, EPC, or anything else. What matters is what the code meant when the car was built in 1994, not what shows up in a system 20+ years later. The original meaning could be lost or muddied during that time. Note that the code description I provided does not appear anywhere in your list, yet it makes the most sense in the context of a 1994 E60. Maybe it appears if you scroll down further?

:scratchchin:

So true. Generally speaking, the verbal description of the option code will be displayed as what ever its last assigned meaning was. The codes are consistent in the sense that if a given code referred to a particular sound system upgrade, then the current version of that code will usually also be a sound system upgrade. Hence one may see an option code for a sound system upgrade on a 1992 car with the verbal description "Burmester high and sound" when there was no such name assigned to it. Wheels are the best example/offender in this regard, the verbal description often bearing no relationship to the actual wheel. The numbers are what matter, not the verbal description.

bing
01-06-2016, 09:04 AM
Be careful with current MB definitions in VEDOC, EPC, or anything else. What matters is what the code meant when the car was built in 1994, not what shows up in a system 20+ years later. The original meaning could be lost or muddied during that time. Note that the code description I provided does not appear anywhere in your list, yet it makes the most sense in the context of a 1994 E60. Maybe it appears if you scroll down further?

:scratchchin:


So true. Generally speaking, the verbal description of the option code will be displayed as what ever its last assigned meaning was. The codes are consistent in the sense that if they given code referred to a particular sound system upgrade, then the current version of that code will usually also be a sound system upgrade. Hence one may see an option code for a sound system upgrade on a 1992 car with the verbal description "Burmester high and sound" when there was no such name assigned to it. We also are a great example in this regard, the verbal description often bearing no relationship to the actual wheel. The numbers are what matter, not the verbal description.

I get this, yes, there are inaccuracies but there's gotta be trust in the system too. Other than visual inspection(as Dortmunder did already) how else ?


Hello Arnt,
thank you for your statement. I had a look underneath the car the other day and could only find the E500 suspension. I had a look in the pricelist of those days as well and there was a difference to order the AMG package, with and without the AMG suspension. That is why I think I have the regular E500 suspension. While ordering the AMG suspension you would get the AMG wheels as well.
concerning the AMG wheels I bought the wheels which are mentioned in the "Brief". The bigger wheels would not have been my choice

I will decode a few more E60 VINs when I have more time to see if we can narrow things down.

@Admin, please split this thread from post 17 and create another say "E60 AMG suspension" Thread, so we don't hijack Dortmunder's owner thread. Thanks!

bing
01-06-2016, 09:16 AM
About that E60 AMG suspension, I hardly believe that someone using a fortune on a new E60 AMG skipped the specific suspension - simply spoken for what reason??
If those potential owners wanted a softer ride they acquired a S-class, which they probably already had in their fleet...;)

Strange things happened though - just like buying a Limited and skip the Birdseye wood and the special leather...:hammerhead:

Not necessarily! On 957 code SL60s, AMG suspension was optional, and I personally know 2 of which do not have this option. Maybe it made a big difference in cost, and not to mentioned the ride quality. My personal experience with early AMG suspension like on my MY 2000 CLK55, it is bloody bone shaking hard and i don't really like it.

Klink
01-06-2016, 09:32 AM
It would be absolutely consistent in that era that the "AMG suspension" was optional on some AMG models, yet standard on others. The rule with this kind of thing is "There are no rules"
That is true even with non AMG stuff. The same thing has always occurred with such things as traction control systems. Models that had it standard world wide may show it as an option code, or they may not. Remember that these were all things that helped them build these cars and they corresponded to some kind of internal logistical and planning issues. They didn't have the slightest concern that you or I could use this stuff to make sense of things in the future.