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195910
01-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Hi Guys,

Anyone have a detailed source of info about these cars?

All Three use the legendary M119 Block. All three are 24Hr Lemans & Sport-cars championship Winners.
The C11 set the fastest top speed on Lemans ever (400 km/h)

C9 & C11 use the 5.0L M119 but Twin Turbo Charged, output of 950PS !!

CLK-LM Uses a Natural aspirated M119 with an output of 600ps. The original CLK-GTR (Won the GT series twice) used a 6L N/A V12 unit, but this was considered not reliable enough to run 24hr in lemans, thus the M119 was used.

Question is.. How did they get 600PS out of a naturally aspirated M119?

KarlC
01-23-2011, 06:12 PM
Clk-lm

KarlC
01-23-2011, 06:16 PM
C9/11

gsxr
01-23-2011, 06:56 PM
Question is.. How did they get 600PS out of a naturally aspirated M119?
Most likely they revved it to the moon. 600hp isn't too hard if you spin it to 9000rpm and don't care about how much torque is produced between idle and 4000rpm. Fun on the racetrack but it would be a dog in a street car around town...

:tree:

195910
01-24-2011, 08:36 AM
I am finding very little info, But the CLK-LM M119 has a compression ratio of ~ 12:1. I will try to find info on the RPM

gsxr
01-24-2011, 10:28 AM
The CLK-LM shown in the photos above does not appear to have normal M119 cylinder heads, or it's not a M119 engine - can't say for sure. The C9/11 does appear to use normal M119 heads, at least externally.

:detective:

samiam44
08-02-2012, 09:55 PM
I've wondered about this for sometime. There are free tuning software. For high rpm, you need to keep the velocity down with a larger diameter. I wondered if they used larger valves. A 6.0 liter is 100mm. A 4 inch Arao heads use bigger valves and get 650 for street use(limiting rpm to 7,000). Bet with 12:1, you are also a whole slew of different parameters of timing, fuel type, etc.
Wonder if the port angles were changed. Never seen any details at all. Anyone got a copy of the SAE paper which were written on the M119 and variable cam timing development? I think there were 3 papers.

036
08-03-2012, 04:23 AM
M119 Sauber, more pics and video.
http://benzclub.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=230742

Jim
08-03-2012, 04:43 AM
Anyone got a copy of the SAE paper which were written on the M119 and variable cam timing development? I think there were 3 papers.

This one is available from SAE...

Paper Number: 891990
Date Published: 1989-09-01
DOI: 10.4271/891990

Citation:

Grohn, M. and wolf, K., "Variable Valve Timing in the new Mercedes-Benz Four-Valve Engines," SAE Technical Paper 891990, 1989, doi:10.4271/891990.

Author(s):

Michael Grohn - Mercedes-Benz AG
Klaus wolf - Mercedes-Benz AG

Abstract:

The valve timing of internal-combustion engines usually represents a compromise with regard to the requirements placed on power output and torque. This paper describes the development of a system for variable valve timing, taking the new Mercedes-Benz 4-valve engines as an example. Gas exchange calculation and tests carried out on a modified 4-cylinder engine have demonstrated that with two intake valve times and one specified exhaust valve time virtually the best possible torque characteristics combined with high power output can be achieved. Intake valve timing is adjusted dependent on load and engine speed by turning the intake chamshaft using a hydraulic-mechanically acting camshaft adjuster, whose functional principles are described in detail.

Jelmer
08-03-2012, 05:38 AM
Holy cow. That linked youtube movie speaks of 12,000 RPM!
pTm5qeRrrsQ

samiam44
08-03-2012, 08:04 AM
How about this one:
The Mercedes-Benz Group C Engines for the World Sports Prototype Racing Championships 1989 and 1990

Date Published: 1992-02-01Paper Number: 920674
DOI: 10.4271/920674


Citation:

Hiereth, H., Baehrens, W., Müller, W., and Withalm, G., "The Mercedes-Benz Group C Engines for the World Sports Prototype Racing Championships 1989 and 1990," SAE Technical Paper 920674, 1992, doi:10.4271/920674.

Author(s):

Hermann Hiereth - Mercedes-Benz AG
W.D. Baehrens - Mercedes-Benz AG
Willi Müller - Mercedes-Benz AG
Gert Withalm - Mercedes-Benz AG

View All CollapseAbstract:

The M119 HL, a twin turbocharged V8-5 I-engine, was developed by Mercedes-Benz AG for Group C World Championship Race events based on the production engine used for the Mercedes-Benz passenger car range. *
Due to the fuel consumption limitation for Group C-Cars - 51 litre/ 100 km - a high efficiency race engine was required to achieve the target fuel consumption during race events using a commercially available “pump” fuel.
Given these restrictions, the latest version of the M119 HL-engine had a power output of 530 kW and minimum brake specific fuel consumption values of 235 - 260 g/kWh over the engine speed range.
This paper discusses the conceptual ideas behind the design of such a high-performance engine with optimized fuel consumption, especially concerning turbocharging and engine management.
Furthermore, the development of the engine's mechanical components is shown in comparison to the series production engine design.

samiam44
08-03-2012, 08:05 AM
Injection and Ignition System of the M 104 and M 119 Engines

Date Published: 1989-09-01Paper Number: 892007
DOI: 10.4271/892007


Citation:

Strauss, W. and Behnke, H., "Injection and Ignition System of the M 104 and M 119 Engines," SAE Technical Paper 892007, 1989, doi:10.4271/892007.

Author(s):

Wolfgang Strauss - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
Horst Behnke - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO

Abstract:

The electronic fuel injection and ignition control units on the engines of the new Mercedes-Benz SL roadsters were further developed on the basis of the tried and tested control units. Introducing a communication interface between both ECU's has permitted coordinated functions such as maximum speed limitation. The ignition control unit contains an adaptive closed-loop anti-knock control algorithm for each individual cylinder.

samiam44
08-03-2012, 08:10 AM
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Passenger Car Conference & ExpositionThe New Camshaft Adjustment System by Mercedes-Benz--Design and Application in 4-Valve Engines

Date Published: 1990-09-01Paper Number: 901727
DOI: 10.4271/901727


Citation:

Grohn, M., "The New Camshaft Adjustment System by Mercedes-Benz--Design and Application in 4-Valve Engines," SAE Technical Paper 901727, 1990, doi:10.4271/901727.

Author(s):

Michael Grohn - Mercedes-Benz AG

View All CollapseAbstract:

The valve timing of internal-combustion engines usually represents a compromise with regard to the requirements placed on power output and torque.

samiam44
08-03-2012, 08:11 AM
The New 5-Liter 8-Cylinder Engine with 4-Vaiwe Technology for the Mercedes-Benz 500 SL

Date Published: 1989-09-01Paper Number: 892006
DOI: 10.4271/892006


Citation:

Frey, J., Ohiendorf, R., and Strauber, H., "The New 5-Liter 8-Cylinder Engine with 4-Vaiwe Technology for the Mercedes-Benz 500 SL," SAE Technical Paper 892006, 1989, doi:10.4271/892006.

Author(s):

Jürgen Frey - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
Rolf Ohiendorf - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO
Hans-Jürgen Strauber - Mercedes-Benz AG, Dept. EP/MVO

View All CollapseAbstract:

The 5-liter V8 ligth-alloy engine presented by Mercedes-Benz in the new 500 SL at the motor show in Geneva in March 1989 is a new development on the basis of the 8-cylinder engines which have proved themselves for many years

gsxr
08-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Any chance we could get these in PDF format...?

:apl:

jhodg5ck
08-04-2012, 07:46 AM
that looks like the Indy/Penske engine that made over 1000hp when cranked up.

samiam44
08-04-2012, 07:57 AM
yes copies are still available.

I think it's about $22 per paper. Unless we have a list member whom is a student member of SAE.


Michael

samiam44
08-04-2012, 01:59 PM
I was thinking into it a bit more-

Wonder if anyone can find the authors on linkin or german equivalent site? I know my company has a general email format.

These guys KNEW and can answer more about M119's than anyone else is my guess.


Michael