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Thread: Contemplating the Cabriolets

  1. #181
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Yeah, only thing “missing” is the pano roof. Of course the roof mainly gets stored so maybe a buyer won’t care. On BaT, they may not even know if or when pano roofs were ever an option. If one of these is worth north of $20k today, this would be one.

    maw

    P.S. I think the production numbers are hurting these values. The "certificated parade" cars I think are a breed unto themselves, as are the Silver Arrows. Special Edition SL cars (those two, plus the Mille Miglia manual cars) may command premiums. But I don't know about the value curve for R129s generally. I suspect it's been dampened by the 500E's shine -- which is arguably the best thing to come out of Mercedes from '88-'98.
    Last edited by maw1124; 1 Week Ago at 07:06 AM.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Has the R129 value curve swung much since 2010?

    Potential comps:
    from 2010
    https://azure.barrett-jackson.com/Ev...ROADSTER-91325

    from 2012
    https://azure.barrett-jackson.com/Ev...ERTIBLE-117696


    Not finding any details on the blue ones. If I had to guess, Midnight Blue, would probably make the most sense.
    Last edited by ace10; 1 Week Ago at 06:53 AM.
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  5. #183
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I believe that 129s and 124 cabrios are poised for some SERIOUS appreciation in the coming years between now and 2023, and this will continue. RIGHT NOW is the best time to snap one up. The best 129s will be the late M119 models (1997-1998) and the special edition and AMG models with the M113s. Options like good colors, pano roofs, and low miles will be the kickers for these cars.

    I think R230 SLs will also appreciate, but they are much farther behind the curve. NOW is the time to get a high-end R230 with low miles and hang onto it for the next 10-12 years. You will not regret the decision to do so.

    So, if getting a car for investment purposes, it comes down to whether you want a car that is fully depreciated, or on the way down and near the bottom, and how long you want to hang onto it.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    ^^^ Agreed.

    Every time I mention one, I'm steered toward the R230, which gives me most of what I would look for in an R129, except for the M120 engine. I'm not in the market for another M119 or M113. And with my aversion to keeping extra stuff around, the hard folding roof beats the detachable one for me, and makes pano a useless search.

    I still don't quite buy the appreciation story, though, and once I toss that out, the R129 goes with it. An R230 63 AMG (M156) car ticks that box just as well for me, albeit more expensive right now.

    This 500E is probably the last car I buy with "appreciation" in mind. It's not the first, because the E46M came before it, and I actually think that one will rise despite the production numbers. The BMW and Porsche bunch are much more enthusiastic collectors (rabid, even), seems to me. Anything old BMW or old Porsche and they're all over it. Luckily (and maybe because) the BMW's tend not to last that long. I also wouldn't be totally surprised to see the S55 sought after in a while, but I'm not holding my breath. Driving a 25 year old 500E makes me a lot more comfortable keeping and driving that one for the foreseeable future.

    maw

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I'd be a buyer up to about $29,000. I bet this one reaches $45,000.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Hagerty shows #1 R129 (M119) values at $19,500 back in 2010, $20,000 in 2012 and $26,000 currently.

    When I run that data up against the two comps I posted earlier, it suggests a value for the Red BaT car of $43,500. Color might add some premium. Ownership history, too.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by vexed View Post
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Mercedes-Benz-300-Series/302704399619

    Triple black?? Why are the seats 'shroom and parts of the interior. The piping on the seats is not factory, door cards should be one color. And if the data card is right this is really funky.

    Attachment 75252
    Not much about that car's paint or interior is original. It was originally Spruce Green / Malachite as the datacard indicates, note the green front center radiator support tube near the horns, also the green inner fender behind the ASR unit. No stickers on the upper radiator support very likely indicates a front-end wreck and full repaint.

    I guess "triple black" in this case means the body uppers (1), body lowers (2), and wheels (3). But with half the interior black, it should be triple-and-a-half black, no? With full black interior it would be the rocking-horse-poop-rare quadruple black!

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Tossing another special R129 out there:

    https://www.luxsport.com/2002-merced...-500-c-411.htm

    411_p3_f.jpg411_p44_f.jpg

    This dealer's reputation does precede it, so caveat emptor.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I have yet to convince myself that I like the SA edition interior. I am not a fan of the 3 valve engine.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    I have yet to convince myself that I like the SA edition interior. I am not a fan of the 3 valve engine.
    I'm a sucker for turned sheet metal. Not so much with the two tone guts, though.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Here's a 124 Cab that just popped up. Pricing is (IMO) on the low/very low side for the miles and apparent condition. ($20k / 32kmi)

    I don't love white cars, but coupled with the blue is a rich look.

    http://www.gcmchicago.com/detail-199...-17547055.html

    [Admin edit: Also has optional ASR and heated orthopedic seats!]

    used-1995-mercedes~benz-e_class-eclass2drcabriolet32l-12372-17547055-88-640.jpgused-1995-mercedes~benz-e_class-eclass2drcabriolet32l-12372-17547055-9-640.jpg
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Rare color here (Beryll / Teal), bun warmers but no ASR:

    https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/c...564161571.html


    1993 Mercedes 300ce convertible - $16000 (Scottsdale, AZ)

    1993 Mercedes 300ce convertible, it has 30,xxx miles and runs and drives like new. The car interior is 8/10 few small fixable things but looks perfect and all buttons and switches work. The car paint and outside are 10/10 shape tires are like new clear car history with zero accidents. Car needs nothing runs and drives perfect with clean title in hand.

    $16,000

    952-358-1683

    Link courtesy of forum member baviking1.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I don't see many early cabs. I think the way I search tends to exclude them more often than not. Or there simply aren't many of them. Either way, that's a nice find gsxr.


    I've been (long distance) looking at a 124 Cab which I have not posted on here. It has the Ortho seat control, but no bun warmers. Which seems kinda odd to me.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets


    Auction ended. $10,200. SOLD

    Seems like a steal to me. Perhaps the interior wear scared off the money.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Rare color here (Beryll / Teal), bun warmers but no ASR:

    https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/c...564161571.html[INDENT][I]1993 Mercedes 300ce convertible - $16000 (Scottsdale, AZ)
    Nice color combo especially the interior Looks like an aftermarket electrical connection behind the battery. Also the exhaust side of the engine looks to have something extra covering the manifold? Is that a sportline steering wheel?

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by vexed View Post
    Nice color combo especially the interior Looks like an aftermarket electrical connection behind the battery. Also the exhaust side of the engine looks to have something extra covering the manifold? Is that a sportline steering wheel?
    The item behind the battery is a circuit breaker, feeding an unknown accessory... stereo amplifier perhaps. Steering wheel is standard / stock.


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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    When I saw this one, I thought I was misreading some critical fact.

    1998 R129, 6,000 miles, M120, Clean Carfax, Pano roof. $30K

    Refrigerator white and No AMG Sport pkg, but still... this seems like a screaming value for a long term collector and occasional usage.

    http://www.isringhausen.com/Inventor...ehicleID/18330

    9c3131602a634271ad3948489b4032c6.jpg70d84daf07624b8a877aea2de6b16599.jpgec43e76462c04993ad025da8ff3fc080.jpg

    .
    Last edited by ace10; 2 Days Ago at 05:56 AM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Auction ended. $10,200. SOLD

    Seems like a steal to me. Perhaps the interior wear scared off the money.
    That was a good deal. People were being harsh. Those interior bits are fairly easily replaced. But those were some hard 87k miles on the interior. I have to think lots of short trips, entry and exit, or a lot of time sitting in traffic (more likely). There's a lot of value left in that one for $10k. But I think there's mostly resale / performance money in the market today, which produces good deals on cars like this one that don't make the resale / performance cut. The drivers have been priced out, probably since 2015. The flip side is $75k 500Es.

    Nice car.

    maw

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    When I saw this one, I thought I was misreading some critical fact.

    1998 R129, 6,000 miles, W120, Clean Carfax, Pano roof.

    Refrigerator white and No AMG Sport pkg, but still... this seems like a screaming value for a long term collector and occasional usage.
    Sport package is a must on these, at least for me. Even then, they're fairly ponderous cars. The .6 will help. But the sport package starts to bring the car where it should be. And visually it's a must. Without it, the car screams "cream puff" -- which isn't bad. But it also isn't what people are looking for today. The money is after the M120 that looks and acts like an AMG (RennTech, 72 or 73), or at very least like Satish's C126 600SEC. This one looks like it's doing none of that. I'd be interested to see who shells out $30k for it. At least on the Silver Arrow cars, all the performance bits come standard.

    maw

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I haven't seen many SAs for sale. And I can't recall seeing any R129 M120s with uber-low miles being listed publicly at least not recently.

    I agree that the omission of the Sport pkg hurts. Especially on a light color. But I just don't see many comps for an example in this condition. And the Pano roof claws back some of the desirability, IMO.

    Wondering what the take rate was on Pano and AMG Sport on the later V12s.

    One can find 40-50K mile M120s for ~$20K all day long these days. 50% premium for a minty one doesn't strike me as much of a premium.


    The red Penske SL500 is up to $28K on BaT with a couple more days to go.
    Last edited by ace10; 3 Days Ago at 12:03 PM.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    If you had one, would you sell it?

    Seems like I've only seen ONE Silver Arrow 600 for sale, maybe a year or so ago, and it was at around this same price. It went quickly, maybe 3 or 4 months. This was when people were still on the fence about the R129 cars. With the Fed still holding off and the way the market moved in 2017, people seem to have gotten off that fence. It had more miles, but the way MB build these things, that doesn't mean anything to me. This same car at 60k miles at half the price is a better deal to me -- the miles just don't add anything to the experience; only to the resale value.

    I'd do this one first...https://www.fangiomotors.com/listing...600-v12-sport/ It's offered for $16.6 on Autotrader. I've hawked these cars for a while, but I think I'm deciding I'm over it. I go in and out, but at these prices, I'm out (Mark Cuban Voice).

    maw

    PS Looking at the cars side by side, for me highlighted just how critical the sport package was. The AMG kit around the bottom is subtle, but necessary. You don't miss it until you compare it to a car that has it. And then you're like, "Yeah, that's a must..." All I've ever seen is build numbers 500 vs. 600, by year, I think. I feel like someone told me pano on 7% of the models, but I can't confirm that.
    Last edited by maw1124; 3 Days Ago at 12:18 PM. Reason: PS

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    ...
    I'd do this one first...https://www.fangiomotors.com/listing...600-v12-sport/ It's offered for $16.6 on Autotrader. I've hawked these cars for a while, but I think I'm deciding I'm over it. I go in and out, but at these prices, I'm out (Mark Cuban Voice).

    ...
    That beige one is listed elsewhere for $15-16K. It's got mismatched Chinese tires on it. Which is earns an automatic walk away from me. The color, Sport pkg or not, is a non starter as well.

    Sometimes I get hooked in by low miles, but in the case of the white one, those are really low. I don't see any market comps from that perspective. And yet there are plenty of 20,30,40K mile cars priced at and above it.

    Miles, in and of themselves may not be a huge differentiator, but interior condition is hard to replicate. Most of the ones I am seeing are showing wear. All the touch surfaces on the white one look as-new. Stitching is crisp everywhere. Driver seat right torso bolster is separating from seat frame.
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Yeah, the seats on these are not something I want to live with. Not easily redone, expensive to purchase. True re: interior. Color is color — Smoke Silver is to you what White is to me — ain’t never gonna happen. New or old. Neither will a non-Sport R129 for that matter. That said, I don’t mind replacing leather and/or interior plastic. I consider that a cost of doing business, like the wiring harnesses on W124 cars. On the W220 and R230 cars, you WILL be replacing the touch points. Steering wheel controls, headlight switches, Sport button, raise and lower, etc. Whatever MB were using during those years (much like Audi and BMW), the top layer starts to rub off the plastic. I don’t know how to describe it, other than being a sticky mess. Which just means you replace it and don’t think much about it. Hell, I think I replaced the headlight switch on my 60k mile 500E for that same reason — just wanted a new one. Cupholder, shift knob, arm rest, rear view mirror, and headlight switches on the 60k mile M3, gone — gimme a new one.

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 2 Days Ago at 04:10 PM.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    I love what AMG brought to Mercedes. Of course, BMW M followed suit a few years later...

    But that AMG is going for what the M went for new.

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 2 Days Ago at 04:57 PM. Reason: PS “Model Athletes” story from “AMG 45” with more info. Sorry for crappy pics, the book is too big to scan

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by Harv View Post
    That is an eye searing combo. In a good way.

    It's been listed on Roy Spencer's site for quite a while. Looks like the seller dropped the Ask by $10K.

    This part of the listing is very curious to me:
    "Sale will include a current transferrable title of remanufactured from Arizona"
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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    That is an eye searing combo. In a good way.

    It's been listed on Roy Spencer's site for quite a while. Looks like the seller dropped the Ask by $10K.

    This part of the listing is very curious to me:
    "Sale will include a current transferrable title of remanufactured from Arizona"
    Huh. This obviously special-order red Cabrio came through insurance auctions after Hurricane Sandy circa 2012. A forum member here said it was salt water flooded. Pics attached from the time.

    Sold on eBay in April 2013 for $17,100.

    Related thread on same car:
    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124...sa-import.html

    It appears to have been nicely restored, but $65k... ???!!!
    https://mbworld.org/forums/market/705195


    UPDATE: Added new thread here about this little red wagon:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12580

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Salt water would explain the reconstruction. Another interesting data point is, according to AMG, they all came with the 5 speed transmission. Still, the power they wrung out of that inline 6 is impressive for the 90’s. The E46M got more, but it took BMW longer to get there. About the same torque, and I’m not sure which one weighs more in Cabriolet form. Although I’m certain the AMG torque curve is a lot more appealing.

    As I sit here, it occurs to me I’ve been “comparing” Benz v BMW Cabriolets since before I could afford either, and on the Internet even...

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 2 Days Ago at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    That red cabrio - very unique and appealing, but for the amount of money he/she is asking for it, I would indeed expect all the cladding and bumper inserts to be matching in color?

    Regards,
    D

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    When I saw this one, I thought I was misreading some critical fact.

    1998 R129, 6,000 miles, M120, Clean Carfax, Pano roof.

    Refrigerator white and No AMG Sport pkg, but still... this seems like a screaming value for a long term collector and occasional usage.

    http://www.isringhausen.com/Inventor...ehicleID/18330

    9c3131602a634271ad3948489b4032c6.jpg70d84daf07624b8a877aea2de6b16599.jpgec43e76462c04993ad025da8ff3fc080.jpg

    .
    This one, right here. I love everything about it except the wood wheel, and pano roof. It especially thrills me that it is unencumbered with the all to common AMG look package. For those that do not know, these cars HATE any wheel over 17" Seriously, you'd have to drive them side by side to have the slightest idea. If I was looking, I'd be on this one like a melanoma. All badges and front plate gone the same day...
    Last edited by Klink; 1 Day Ago at 09:37 PM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: Contemplating the Cabriolets

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    I'd be a buyer up to about $29,000. I bet this one reaches $45,000.
    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Hagerty shows #1 R129 (M119) values at $19,500 back in 2010, $20,000 in 2012 and $26,000 currently.

    When I run that data up against the two comps I posted earlier, it suggests a value for the Red BaT car of $43,500. Color might add some premium. Ownership history, too.

    $0.02

    Went RNM at $30,750

    A lot of baseless negativity and auction gamesmanship from the peanut gallery in the last couple of days. I don't think the final bid was even close to the Reserve,
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

  49. The Following User Says Thank You to ace10 For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (22 Hours Ago)

  50. #212
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    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

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