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Thread: Progression of backglass delamination

  1. #1
    E500E Guru Jlaa's Avatar
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    Progression of backglass delamination

    I thought I would post this here for posterity.

    In September of 2016, my car’s backglass had a milky white look to the left most edge.

    Since Sept 2016, my car has moved from CT to CA. It now lives in a garage whose temp ranges from 50F-90F. The car does not see precipitation, and has not been washed with water since 2016.

    I was very surprised to realize that the milky look seems to have disappeared.... although some evidence of delamination remains.
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    Last edited by Jlaa; 01-31-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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  3. #2
    E500E Guru TerryA's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    It’s that highly taxed CA AIR.

    If that’s all you got I wouldn’t fret over it. It would have to get really ugly before I would do anything.

    Mine has a similar delamination. No worries.
    Terry

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    That is very interesting. My car has had the same level/position of delamination for probably at least the past 5 years. I have noticed no change after moving from hot Texas to colder Maryland. Good for you that it has lessened. It has not reached a point where I've decided to replace the rear window, but if it worsened, then I certainly would.

    I'd be interested to know if others have experienced this type of rear windscreen delamination.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Finding a new rear window would be tough since they are NLA. Unless someone knows something I don't.

    Probably most of the used ones would have a similar delamination.
    Terry

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    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Terry - the E500E Rear glass is unique to the 036 chassis due to the finer/more S Class style heater elements. (EDIT - see my next post below)

    Thing is, the metal trims are bonded in with the rear screen on installation. Therefore the original metal trims are scrap upon removal. Therein lies the problem with one trim, not the glass NLA

    Note that in my experience only the E500E & 124 CE Coupe rear glass delaminates like this - it’s quite common too
    Last edited by JC220; 01-31-2018 at 01:53 PM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Yes, interesting that it has regressed. My "garage queen" has none. My green car has about as much as yours in its' current state and has been registered in Georgia and Florida. Lower left corner.

    drew
    Drew
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Appreciate the info JC220. I've been researching that trim removal here as it's the last thing to come off for paint. It will stay on and i'll have it wrapped in black to disguise it's faded appearance. It looked to be the case but i wasn't sure.

    drew
    Drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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  15. #8
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Terry - the E500E Rear glass is unique to the 036 chassis due to the finer/more S Class style heater elements. The rear glass is still available but one of the rear metal mouldings IS Nla.

    Thing is, the metal trims are bonded in with the rear screen on installation. Therefore the original metal trims are scrap upon removal. Therein lies the problem with one trim, not the glass NLA

    Note that in my experience only the E500E & 124 CE Coupe rear glass delaminates like this - it’s quite common too
    Thanks for the info - Are the trims for the pedestrian w124s available, and is the shape or finish of the pedestrian trims different from the NLA 036 trims?
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    the pedestrian w124s
    Careful with that terminology ... I've used that in the past and it's been fightin' words for the 400E/E420 and 300E/E320 owners on this forum.....

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  18. #10
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    MB Classic shows both left & right rear window trims are available (same on all 1990-up W124 sedan). Someone would need to call a dealer to check inventory levels though:

    http://partssearch.mercedes-benz-cla...1930?tt=manual
    http://partssearch.mercedes-benz-cla...2030?tt=manual

    https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts...ng-1246781930/
    https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts...ng-1246782030/

    Note that due to the size and fragility, these items are risky to ship... best purchased locally if at all possible. Some vendors may not be willing to ship due to possible damage in transit.

    New trims on 1990-up are anodized black; used trims are always faded to some lighter shade, even the bronze-appearing color on Jlaa's car seen in post #1.


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  20. #11
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I replaced the rear glass in my '92 and there was no impacts to the trim. The trim went right back on.

    I have a brand new glass in the box sitting in my shop for the red car due to delamination. I'm not in a worry to install it, I just wated to get one while they were availalble.

    1992 500E
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  22. #12
    E500E Guru Jlaa's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Careful with that terminology ... I've used that in the past and it's been fightin' words for the 400E/E420 and 300E/E320 owners on this forum.....
    Hmmm how about plebian? Proletariat-grade? Poverty-spec?
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Best to be politically correct ... "non-.036" is probably best

  24. #14
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    How about NSB (for "nicht so besonders")


    Robert
    Last edited by Ntrepid; 01-31-2018 at 12:49 PM.

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Anyone check on trim availability? I'm curious if I'll need to waste more $$$ hoarding a pair of these suckers. Don't forget the little connecting cover piece (124-678-42-37) which thankfully is only $14 MSRP. And at that point, might as well get new rubber seals, and the lower trim, and...


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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Terry - the E500E Rear glass is unique to the 036 chassis due to the finer/more S Class style heater elements. The rear glass is still available but one of the rear metal mouldings IS Nla.
    Gents, apologies. I may have caused some confusion here. I had recalled this WTB thread from Say Hey stating one rear black trim was NLA. However he was referring to the door – not the glass.

    I have never been able to salvage the rear screen trims when the glass is removed. It's somewhat luck of the draw how much excess adhesive there was at the time of installation which would bond the trims to the glass & rubber seal. I have a spare ‘stock’ w124 rear screen in my garage and it still has the metal trims on it intact.

    So to be sure – someone needs to verify stock of the 036 rear screen and metal trims. The last time I spoke to my dealership about 036 glass he told me there was plenty in stock and there was no need to panic buy just yet. Same goes for the CE glass & trims which I checked on just last week. Unfortunately for me I will be buying a 036 and C124 rear screen this year from MB.

    As I said already C124 & E500E rear glass are the worst for delamination. I think the thin heater bars employed in both screens is the weakness there. My other, older W124 stock rear screens have zero delamination by comparison.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    Thanks for the info - Are the trims for the pedestrian w124s available, and is the shape or finish of the pedestrian trims different from the NLA 036 trims?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    Hmmm how about plebian? Proletariat-grade? Poverty-spec?





    Last edited by a777fan; 01-31-2018 at 02:13 PM.

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  32. #18
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    Gents, apologies. I may have caused some confusion here. I had recalled this WTB thread from Say Hey stating one rear black trim was NLA. However he was referring to the door – not the glass.

    I have never been able to salvage the rear screen trims when the glass is removed. It's somewhat luck of the draw how much excess adhesive there was at the time of installation which would bond the trims to the glass & rubber seal. I have a spare ‘stock’ w124 rear screen in my garage and it still has the metal trims on it intact.

    So to be sure – someone needs to verify stock of the 036 rear screen and metal trims. The last time I spoke to my dealership about 036 glass he told me there was plenty in stock and there was no need to panic buy just yet. Same goes for the CE glass & trims which I checked on just last week. Unfortunately for me I will be buying a 036 and C124 rear screen this year from MB.

    As I said already C124 & E500E rear glass are the worst for delamination. I think the thin heater bars employed in both screens is the weakness there. My other, older W124 stock rear screens have zero delamination by comparison.
    The E500E came as standard with a laminated (like the front windshield) rear glass with the fine heater wires, heat insulation (green tint). The two bonded Glas layers have a bit of unequal tension due to the bend radii towards the outer edge. Depending on aging, heat etc the outer sealing can get damaged where then air and moisture enters and causes the visible milky tracks.
    The non 036 cars came as standard with one layer only safety glass (like the side windows) with the thick heater leads. The leads are the most obvious differentiation marks between laminated and safety glass rears.

    However also the so called pedestr... or nicht so besonderen or better non 036 cars could be ordered with the laminated rear glass optional at extra charge.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I thought that 600Eric got the last 036 rear screen available when he did his resto.
    Maybe it was the front screen?
    So there is rear 036 screens still in stock?

    I’m still not ready for one.

    FYI, My trims are all bronze in color. It’s called ‘PATINA’. Just part of ageing gracefully.
    Terry

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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryA View Post
    I thought that 600Eric got the last 036 rear screen available when he did his resto.
    Maybe it was the front screen?
    So there is rear 036 screens still in stock?

    I’m still not ready for one.

    FYI, My trims are all bronze in color. It’s called ‘PATINA’. Just part of ageing gracefully.
    I checked my emails & in April 2017 paragon showed 79 E500E Rear screens in stock in Germany

    Is it a case that MB orders in the glass in lots when required? So stock levels may go or down Year to year? I would think Pilkington or similar produce the screens for MB. I do need to order a front screen for my CE also but a local supplier will do that for me - not an MB screen. I need to verify with him that the plastic strip will come on the front lower edges of the new aftermarket screen. It is not an insurance claim so I am paying for the glass & installation as I do on each w124 of mine
    Last edited by JC220; 02-01-2018 at 05:40 AM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  37. #21
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    The car does not see precipitation, and has not been washed with water since 2016.
    It sounds like minimal exposure to water (rain and/or washing) may cause the delamination to regress. Interesting.
    Greg
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  39. #22
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    For reference, here are the relevant part numbers:

    500E/E500 rear glass:
    124 670 10 80

    Trim strips:
    124 678 19 30
    124 678 20 30

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  41. #23
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Front dealer glass was temporarily NLA for a while a few years ago, then it came back... possibly made in China though. There's a separate thread on that topic.

    EDIT: As of Jan-2017, the dealer glass was made by PGW and tagged as Made in USA. Link with photos:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...l=1#post136689


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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Has anyone replaced the trims without removing the glass?

    drew
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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  45. #25
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I have
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  46. #26
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    OK, good. I'll call and post what Tom says about availability. Any tips are appreciated. I see the phillips screws at the ends. I will also ask about the glass availability.

    drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

  47. #27
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I was able to get mb dealer glass here in Houston, though I didn’t order due to getting a transmission rebuild instead.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  48. #28
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    For reference, here are the relevant part numbers:

    500E/E500 rear glass:
    124 670 10 80

    Trim strips:
    124 678 19 30
    124 678 20 30
    The slippery slope to replacing all the trim.


    1992 500E
    1994 E500
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  50. #29
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    The slippery slope to replacing all the trim.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryA View Post

    FYI, My trims are all bronze in color. It’s called ‘PATINA’. Just part of ageing gracefully.
    I'm going w/ TerryA's thoughts --- Trim Patina is to be cherished. Actually I like the fact that the trim now looks like brightwork rather than being black.

    I *do* need to address the grey grille mesh though. I've got this weird thing going on --- it all feels so "powdery." Like you touch the grey parts and you can feel the coarse powder, like the grille is coated in a never-ending supply of grey metamucil or something. Don't ask me why I know so much about metamucil. Age ok? Anyways. Yeah.
    ---
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  52. #30
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by sheward View Post
    Has anyone replaced the trims without removing the glass?

    drew
    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    I have
    Nocfn, can you elaborate more on how you replaced the rear trims in situ without damaging or requiring removal of the glass? Also- how did you install the new trims?

    I did not think this was possible but I’m glad to hear it might be.... I do have more info to add on this myself this weekend including a ‘real life’ crossection cut through the w124 rear trim / seal configuration. I will cut through a spare roof section and provide photos.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  54. #31
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I just followed the manual, and used lots of lubrication for the back glass. The rubber is new on the channel and glass. If you are a solo like me, take care to protect the paint 4” around the opening of the window. Also, wrap the trunk end of the trim with a cloth while removing old and installing new (its obvious when you get there, better safe than scratched paint).

    Also, a spray bottle of soapy water and a tube of plain ole KY jelly helps slide things. Oh, and a can of patience.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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  56. #32
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Back windshield, 124 670 10 80, is $915 from Gainsville Mercedes.
    Call Darvin at 352-642-1872.

    When he checked, there were 6 left in the country as of 1-2-2017.

    There will be "some" shipping charges because of size and weight.
    No overseas shipping.
    Trae
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  58. #33
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    So what... pray tell... are the benefits of this ‘special’ double paned e500e/coupe rear glass? The tint? Does the defrost really work better?

    The proletariat wants to know.




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  59. #34
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    So what... pray tell... are the benefits of this ‘special’ double paned e500e/coupe rear glass? The tint? Does the defrost really work better?

    The proletariat wants to know.
    The main benefit of this is so that we, the bourgeoisie, can have riveting discussions about delamination
    ---
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    1993 MB 500E
    1996 Porsche 993 C2

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    a777fan (02-02-2018), gerryvz (02-03-2018), sheward (02-03-2018)

  61. #35
    E500E Guru TerryA's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I think the DBL glass is for better sound deadening. The finer filament for clearer vision to the rear. (You want to be able to see that CHP cruiser sneaking up behind you).

    In the 13+ years I have owned my car I believe I used the rear defogger once maybe twice.
    What can I say “It Never Rains in SoCal” and when it does I don’t drive the 500E.
    I’m sure in the colder, wetter and high humidity climates it’s very useful and used often.

    I can say here in SoCal if you leave your car in the driveway overnight. Your car will be covered with dew from the ocean air which usually gets sucked into the LA/OC basin every night. In the AM hours you will be using the rear defogger as well as the front defroster and the wipers until you get the car moving. Usually around 10 minuets or so. Between the dew and the dust it’s a real PITA to keep a car clean if left outside overnight.

    When I finally did use the rear defogger, it seemed slow to get started but did a good job after it warmed up.
    Terry

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  63. #36
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Heating up the glue at this point in time might exacerbate any delam I suspect - I could be wrong. I unplugged my female plug to the switch anyway so I dont use it. I dont have any delam.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  64. #37
    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    So what... pray tell... are the benefits of this ‘special’ double paned e500e/coupe rear glass? The tint? Does the defrost really work better?
    The main difference I notice is the finer filament for clearer vision to the rear, for the sneaky CHP / ISP / etc. Not sure about sound deadening difference, but that would be a nice bonus.

    Riveting bourgeoisie discussions about delamination are icing on the cake.


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  66. #38
    Senior Member jaymanek's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    I tried to get rear glass a couple of years ago and it was on back order here in the UK. I ended up getting aftermarket, I think Plikington, but its exactly as MB glass, just no logo.
    I think the aftermaket glass was more expensive than the dealer list! I had no option at the time. The car was in bodyshop and glass had to be removed.

  67. #39
    E500E Guru a777fan's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Riveting bourgeoisie discussions about delamination are icing on the cake.

    LOL

    If there has ever been a better argument for e500e ownership, I’d like to hear it




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  69. #40
    E500E Guru sheward's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    For reference, here are the relevant part numbers:

    500E/E500 rear glass:
    124 670 10 80

    Trim strips:
    124 678 19 30
    124 678 20 30
    Can someone help with a part no. for the remaining piece in regards to rear window replacement; the rubber seal at the bottom of the glass. The no. Tom @ the Classic Center quotes (001 987 49 70) is incorrect for the 45mm strip of plastic + rubber that clips over the window bottom glass.

    In the interest of having all the roof trim no,s in one place.

    roof trim left 124 690 67 62
    roof trim right 124 690 68 62
    top of front windshield trim (will add)

    drew
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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  71. #41
    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Quote Originally Posted by sheward View Post
    Can someone help with a part no. for the remaining piece in regards to rear window replacement; the rubber seal at the bottom of the glass. The no. Tom @ the Classic Center quotes (001 987 49 70) is incorrect for the 45mm strip of plastic + rubber that clips over the window bottom glass.
    Drew, the lower trim should be: 124-678-22-37

    001-987-49-70 is a thin rubber gasket related to that lower trim; sold by the meter.

    Found the photo of the lower trim at this URL, amazing collection of pictures here:
    http://www.gdtm.net/Prodaem/New&usd.htm

    Attached Images Attached Images

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  73. #42
    E500E Guru sheward's Avatar
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    Re: Progression of backglass delamination

    Thanks Dave. I received the thin rubber in the first order. I knew it wasn't what i wanted when i heard it was sold by the meter but i thought it might be useful. I do not know where it is used. It does not attach to the wide piece i removed.

    Very interesting and helpful link.

    drew
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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