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Thread: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

  1. #61
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Second highest bid @ $21K.
    And we don't know what the reserve was, of course.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    Agreed, but I didn't see how high up they bid. I suspect it was probably in an effort to flip it, maybe?
    If Dean bought it for $21k plus fees... and possibly transport costs... I dunno how he's find a buyer that would pay enough to break even, let alone make a profit.

    Odd.


  3. #63
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    I checked back on this 6.9 auction after perusing it on day one. It has played out just about as expected to this point. Ending today. Might be very popcorn-worthy. Or not.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-450sel-6-9-2/
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  5. #64
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    6.9s are not that great of a car, to be honest. Speaking as a former owner and daily driver of one. Three-speed automatic transmission. A well-sorted (but more pedestrian) 560SEL is a far better car in every respect.

    It's a major reason why I sold my 6.3 and 6.9 -- sure they have period charm, but they are just not that good of a vehicle to own and drive. I've never for a second regretted getting my 126 coupe and E500 to replace them.

    If you think parts are NLA for the .036 and the 126s...you've not seen the situation for the 6.9. Major components like the hydropneumatic struts are NLA and have been for years.

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  7. #65
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    The 6.9 on BaT isn't worth a look because of the car, IMO. It's all about the Yankee Swapper grade listing and the seemingly out-of-touch seller.

    $0.02
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    If you think parts are NLA for the .036 and the 126s...you've not seen the situation for the 6.9. Major components like the hydropneumatic struts are NLA and have been for years.
    Anything M100 related is becoming extinct. Which is insane because 600 and 6.3 prices have never been higher. Guys in Australia were paying $3,000 for waterpumps because they simply don't exist anymore. Radiators are NLA and even when they weren't they were $1,300. The hydro valves on 6.9s can pull $500 for good used units.

    M100 cars are now into the Rolls-Royce/Bentley atmosphere when it comes to parts for them. You can't fake owning one of those.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Yep. 6.3/600/Pagoda/M130/108 fuel pumps ..... NLA from Benz for quite some time now. What do you do when you need a fuel pump? Pray that yours can be rebuilt. Absolutely unobtanium as a new part (although Robert Fenton has 13 of them new in box still).

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    ... Absolutely unobtanium as a new part (although Robert Fenton has 13 of them new in box still).
    Is he ever going to list this stuff for sale, or does everyone have to wait for his estate sale? I mean, he could toss 'em out on eBay for $100k / OBO and see how badly people want them.


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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Robert has quite a nice business from shops and stealerships all over the country/world, including the Classic Center, when they need stuff and can't find it anywhere else. When you buy a few hundred pumps at a time, for quarters on the dollar, you can afford to sell them at a slow pace, at whatever price you feel like charging that particular day. Last I heard, the going price for a new fuel pump was around $1,200, and I'm sure that price hasn't gone down since.

    Put it this way, if you're a 600Eric paying the Classic Center to do a nut and bolt resto on your Pagoda, $1,200 for a new fuel pump is probably not that big of a deal

    I should probably have stepped in and had JC buy an ETA from Robert - would have been cheaper than MB, and probably arrived in less time. He has two pancake ETAs for 500E, and one late one, all NOS in MB boxes.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Really nice 210 AMG ''sells'' on 4/18 (in Texas):
    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...enz-e55-amg-3/

    Back on eBay today (in PA):
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/163029052277

    2001 mercedes Benz E55 AMG 57K Miles, Amazing Condition, 1 of few like this left

    "Stunning, low mileage 2001 Mercedes Benz E55 AMG. The car practically looks brand new inside and out. Paint is in great condition with only minor issues as expected from a car with 58k miles. Interior is in really nice shape, soft perforated, cooled and heated seats. Runs like new, service up to date, needs nothing. No rattles, zero rust. Car has been in CA and TX all its life. Paint depth readings are consistent throughout car. No accidents are displayed on the Carfax report, three owners (2 CA, 1 TX). The car was optioned with xenon headlights as well as Parktronic distance sensors, which can be seen on both bumpers. AMG Monoblock 18″ alloys wear Bridgestone Potenza tires. Tires are in great shape, about 70-80% life left. Deluxe memory seats are heated, ventilated, power-adjustable, and trimmed in two-tone Condor and Anthracite leather. The perforated leather is carried into the steering wheel and door cards. Featured equipment includes a power rear window sunshade, power sunroof, and rain-sensing wipers. The trunk houses a CD changer, spare tire, jack, and cargo net. The AMG-tuned, naturally aspirated 5.5L M113 V8 is mated to a 5-speed automatic transmission and was rated at 349 horsepower with 391 lb-ft of torque. An oil change was performed by Mercedes Benz 250 miles ago. The clean Carfax report shows an accident-free history under three owners in California and Texas, and records regular service visits over much of the life of the vehicle. Comes with all books and 2 keys. These are starting to climb in value and this is likely among the nicest and lowest mileage in the country."
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harv View Post
    Interesting.

    So was the car really moved to PA from TX? Texas BaT pics being used on ebay. Car location said to be PA.
    If the car really did change hands via the BaT auction, is the current seller curbstoning the car, since the Autocheck shows no change of ownership and the ebay history of the seller does not appear to be a dealer?

    My guess is that this is a flipper. A non licensed flipper. Sitting in the car between $19-20K.
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Comments by the buyer following auction close seem to confirm that they are located in PA.



    Wonder what happened.


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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Uh oh. 600 with a bunch of issues.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...edes-benz-600/

    This will be the easiest no-sale ever.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    ROTFLMAO! I saw that this morning but exercised restraint.

    I rather like BaT's "curated" selection of unfinished cool project cars. It's Porsche and BMW heavy, I've noticed. Those were the folks who thought after the last downturn that cars would be value creators (yeah, right!); but who are now "expressing their preference for cash." It's more filtered than eBay or Manheim, so I'm good with it. What will be truly interesting to see is what BaT looks like in the next downturn, which should be starting in, oh... 3, 2, 1...

    Better to unload now than in the middle of a sh*t storm.

    ;-D

    maw

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Do cars ever come with a cash dowry?
    Last edited by ace10; 05-03-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Properly restoring a single Grand 600 would equal the cost of doing probably 4-5 600Eric-level restorations of a 500E. Only 2,677 of these cars were made.

    It will be interesting to see if this goes, but I'm sure the reserve is in the high five-digit range even in this condition.

    My guess is that it's a no-sale, but if it does sell, it's 90% likely that the buyer will have NO IDEA of what they are getting into. Frank Barrett's peanut-gallery comment is right on -- to own a Grand 600, you either need to own a religion, or a country.

    I've ridden in plenty of these 600s (mostly years ago) and they are great cars. But not for average, or even extraordinary, people. You need to be making $500,000K plus as an annual salary to afford to support one properly. I'm sure a lot of folks on this forum like Jono, Ntrepid, Melville and MAW do, and you see how many folks here own 600s.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    I know one ''regular'' person who owns a proper 600 that is totally sorted. Lives in a regular house in a middle class neighborhood. Nothing fancy or extravagant.

    Know what he does for a living? Restores 600s.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    More irrational exuberance for wagons on BaT

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...5-amg-wagon-6/

    54k-Mile 2005 Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG Wagon





    According to the peanut gallery comments, this wagon has been on the market for months, offered at $36,500. So naturally it would sell for $37,400 including the vig.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Am I the only one that finds the ‘aught AMG clusters to be ridiculous?

    Why the hell to I care THAT much about what time it is??? Give me something more useful in this performance car!!!!!


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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    Am I the only one that finds the ‘aught AMG clusters to be ridiculous?

    Why the hell to I care THAT much about what time it is??? Give me something more useful in this performance car!!!!!
    It's not just the AMG, it's all W211. The clusters are downright stupid.... one of the few things MB did terribly wrong on that chassis. The temp gauge is unreadable. And with all the fancy center cluster data menus, there is no way to get the engine temp in numbers. (You also cannot disable menus not in use, i.e. the phone, forcing you to scroll through it. Every. Freaking. Time.)

    MB sort of fixed this with the W212, btw. The W212 still has the clown-size clock, but at least MB changed the fuel gauge & engine temp back to short-sweep analog gauges, which are far better than the bar graph.

    Photos of both attached.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    They do look pretty in my w211 lol but you are absolutely right I find myself scrolling endlessly which is not very safe either .

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  36. #82
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    BaT is actively aiding Sellers who are using (or plan to use) shill bidding accounts.

    If you were following the low mile 360 Modena auction last month, you might have caught this little gem. But only if you were watching closely, and didn't blink...

    BAT shill.PNG

    BAT shill disappeared.PNG

    batshillaccount.PNG


    I called BS on this obvious bit of underhandedness, but my post never saw the light of day.
    I'm proud to say that my comments are under full moderation on BaT, HOWEVER they will still gladly earn a fee from me should I choose to place a bid.
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  38. #83
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benz View Post
    They do look pretty in my w211 lol but you are absolutely right I find myself scrolling endlessly which is not very safe either .
    Once you get Good you can rip through the menus Damn fast

    Get one of the aftermarket android headunits and you can have a FULL compliment of gauges in the command screen a-la Nissan GTR.

    But really, the 55/63's in the 211 work so damn well..they really do impress me.

    Jono

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  40. #84
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Now that my 1995 E320 cab is on a ship to California I thought I would add my 2 cents to this thread about my experience on BaT. First I want to thank Robert (Ntrepid) for all of his help and advice. He helped get me through the auction. Gerry encouraged me to list the car here, however due to my domestic situation being in transition (divorcing my BaTshit wife) I was advised it was cleaner to auction the car.

    TLDR: my auction ended RNM. I sold it to the highest bidder for less than what I wanted.

    BaT: The good-pictures, pictures and more pictures. I do not think they limit you. You can also embed videos which to me was important. I think BaT has a wide audience, I had inquires from Canada and Germany. BaT does help you avoid the CL "what's the lowest you will take" idiots. I do like the bidding process and the fact that it's for 7 days. Regardless of the no sniping clock reset rule the action does seem to be in the last 5 minutes, or so I hoped. My auction manager was responsive once the auction went live. He honored my request to start on a Monday and that no other W124 cabs be listed at the same time. I am still amazed at how many R107s are listed at once, it's becoming the Costco of R107s.

    The comments can be helpful. I was very happy with the compliments I got. The videos had many views. I did not get stupid questions; I worked hard to preemptively answer the questions I anticipated would be asked. I studied every W124 auction. All of us know what to look for and what to ask. In retrospect I may have geared my presentation too far in the direction of enthusiasts. I think the listing fee is reasonable for sellers.

    The not so good: BaT writes the listing. The first draft I received had a number of mistakes. But they were receptive to fixing them. I learned a little late that BaT requires the first photo to be the 3/4 "beauty shot" as they call it. Shortly before we went live BaT told me that some of the pictures I had uploaded were not loading and I had to scramble to retake some. I was not thrilled with the lead photo but I don't think it made a difference. The Friday of the auction the listing disappeared for at least an hour. I was literally on a plane in Maui when my brother who was watching me called me and said "it's gone" and it was. I frantically emailed BaT--there is no other way to contact them-- and it reappeared. By the time my auction manager responded it was back up and he said he could not duplicate the issue. A few days later I got an email from the general BaT email belatedly admitting there was a glitch for a bit.

    The Not Good: My auction ended RNM and way under the reserve. BaT claims it puts you in touch with the highest bidder, it did not. I encouraged people to PM me on other forums and that's how he found me. If you read the BaT FAQs there is nothing about negotiating with the high bidder first but I did and we able to reach agreement. However all of the lawyers in my situation had to weigh in, that was a pain but we got it done. BaT should have a mechanism for people to contact the Seller but once they realize they are only getting the $99 listing fee they drop you like a hot potato. The good news is a Buyer does not have to pay BaT and that's more money they can pay you. I had a number of people contact me, I probably could have sold the car to any one of them. If I was bidding on a car that RNM I would want to be able to contact the Seller.

    When the auction ended RNM I beat myself up wondering why. Was it the shipping issue (870 to any west coast port), was it the color, was it something else. Did bidders think the reserve was so high to be unobtainable? I had watched a 1995 cab with 49K miles go for much more a week before and it was not as good a car. I may never know. The highest bidder told me he too was surprised the auction ran out of steam so quickly. A number of listings went RNM that day, maybe it was a full moon. I can't think of anything I would have done differently, I repeatedly provided information on the shipping and responded to every question.

    Other positives:

    Good Father daughter bonding time making some of the videos.
    I now own a GoPro and learned how to make iMovies
    I now own a paint meter.
    I learned how to mount a tire in my driveway using soap and prybars--I needed a second spare for taking the wheels to be refinished. I had a spare rim and bought a used tire.
    I learned how to safely siphon gas out of the tank since the tank must be less than 1/4 for the ship.
    I traded "free" advice with my neighbor who has a repair shop for lift time.

    I found getting the car ready for the auction, taking the pictures and making the videos to be very time consuming. In retrospect I would have started earlier this year. And once the car is clean I had to keep it inside if there was any hint of rain and we had 2 near misses from hurricanes as I was trying to take pictures.

    Would I do it again? Maybe, depends on what I was selling. For Hawaii it needs to be something rare and desirable, I thought a 17K mile 1995 cab would be.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

    I do think that BAT writing the listings is one of those ''damned if you do, damned if you don't'' kind of things. If they let the sellers write the listings, then it's possible that some will only write two sentences and be done with it like you see on eBay or you'd get sellers writing a 22,000 word novel about the car. But I do think that BAT should employ some ''brand experts'' to write these round ups about the car because they surely are raking in enough money right now to pay them. Obviously some of the obscure stuff guys would have to pinch hit to do the writing on, but it wouldn't be crazy if the hired someone who is Porsche expert, someone who knows Ferraris off the top of their head and so on and so on. A lot of times the guys writing the info are just pulling info from Wikipedia or wherever and don't know the true details of a car.
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  44. #86
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    I think that there are a few things which can make you successful on BaT:

    Pictures
    - Lots of them. You cannot have too many
    - Use pictures to build credibility of condition
    - Use pictures to get in front of any blemishes or areas which will not be addressed by current ownership
    - Take pictures where the car is the focus of the attention (I’ve seen BaT auctions where the banner picture is taken at a train yard and there are commenters who carry on a conversation about the location which detracts/distracts from the commentary on the car)

    Commentary
    - Be the first to comment when the auction starts why you are seeking this car, that you look forward to answering people’s questions, and the next owner will love this car
    - Build a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) on your car covering questions you are likely to get (these may cover issues or maintenance items too).
    - Detail specifics about your car including uniqueness (only X produced in this color, with this option, or this motor), experiences you have had driving it, tricks you learned during ownership, and a history of the previous owners (if any) including if you knew them, what they drove, and why they sold.
    - Use the comments to build an imaginary conversation with potential bidders
    - Detail what maintenance you have done and what is next on your list
    - Enlist your friends to ask questions about the car from your FAQ to get the conversations started.
    - Respond to questions from commenters within 4 hours
    - During the trough of the auction (Days 2-6), post details about the car which have not been covered yet
    - On the start of the 7th day of auction (24hrs left to go), tell people you are around to answer questions and maybe even hint that the auction is close to meeting the reserve (i.e. “Only a little longer to the end of the auction and a little farther until this car gets a new home).

    At the end of the day, people need to feel like they know you so they feel comfortable in buying your car only seen virtually and you need to “scratch that itch” through over-communication.

    One thing I think vexed comments hinted at is that you could have two very similar cars (like his 17Kmi and the 49Kmi example) which have a lot of disparity when they sell which may be just about timing: (1! two or more people (2) who are on BaT at the same time, (3) like the car that they see, and (4) have funds (and wherewithal because, of course, some people are intimidated by auction purchasing) to consummate a purchase.


    Robert

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    BAT has it's pros and cons like many have pointed out here. I get a kick out of the humor of some of the people that comment. Your car (the 17K mile E320 Cab) was a great looking car and definitely worth more than the $18K high bid. For reference I sold one of mine (smoke silver) a few years back for $22k and it had more miles than yours, but I did not use BAT. Your car appeared to be in a bit nicer condition, although mine was excellent condition also. I am wondering if two of the things that hurt your sale were a. I think many people are afraid of shipping cars, so Hawaii might have been a negative b. It ended on a Monday. I am not sure but I wonder if Monday endings are not the best (I have no data to support that)?

    I also have the identical car to yours (color, year etc.) and I have not done the wiring harness, no problems so far but eventually it should be replaced. It has 34K miles and I don't think I would sell it for $18K. I think it is worth more (to me at least).

    I sold a car on BAT and it was a "so so" experience. A guy from south FLA "bought it" and was in contact with me at auction end, but flaked out and never came through. I am not sure if he was an illegal or not, seemed like it. His behavior and other things made the whole thing seem really squirrelly. He also was really impulsive and emotional. BAT banned him from the site and I then had to sell it locally. BAT did not seem so keen to relist it. I suspect because it demonstrates what can happen on their site. The BAT people were good, they refunded my fee etc. At that point I didn't have a great interest in relisting it and dealing with some of the dumb/uniformed comments. I sold it locally for probably $1-$2K less than what it was worth as I had another car coming and needed the space (I had lost 3 weeks dealing with the guy who "bought it", so I was out of time).
    I have found some incredibly knowledgable commenters on BAT and some really funny ones. However, plenty of uninformed ones.

    If I were to sell one of my cars on that site again I would:
    - be firm with BAT on the reserve (although sometimes no reserve cars do really well.....timing, kind of car, day of week etc.)
    - have a stronger hand in editing their description and be willing to walk away if they won't "get it right"
    - comment early as the seller
    - don't hesitate to "bat away" some of the peanut gallery if they are off base (if you do it in an informed respectful way people seem to get it)
    - undercarriage photos (like you did)
    - I would strongly encourage PPI's by the bidders
    - see if you can time the listing to end when you want (that may be quite difficult as they don't tell you when they will list)

    I don't like to overstate things at all so I was probably too reserved in my description/answers of my car (e.g. I intentionally waited until the auction was over to say it was the best car all around I ever owned; the interior in mine looked like it was new etc.), yet as we all know other sellers seem willing to "stretch things" a bit. I would not do that under any circumstance.

    I thought your car was a great looking car and the final bid did not properly reflect its value (including with auction fees added).
    Last edited by msq; 09-30-2018 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by msq View Post
    BAT has it's pros and cons like many have pointed out here. (snip)

    I thought your car was a great looking car and the final bid did not properly reflect its value (including with auction fees added).
    Thanks, BaT accepted my requested reserve without question. I went a few rounds on the description. For example they had it as the seller notes there was paint work by the antenna grommet, I knew of no such paint work and posted paint meter readings to prove it.

    I struggled with how much do you disclose and erred on the side of full disclosure. I have a very small rock chip on the hood, I disclosed it. The black cab that sold about a week before my listing went live had undercarriage pictures with the sound panel on; that's not helpful. I deliberately refrained from commenting. There was a cab after mine, 100K miles where the top video had the windows up. Hello, Houston we have a problem. And the picture of the roll bar actuator switches under the rear control arm clearly showed there was something wrong, no one caught it.

    I did ask for a Monday, that allows the weekend for more views. The auction went live at 5:30 am Hawaii time but ended at 8:30 am my time.

    Hold on to your cab. Good ones will appreciate. I think they are much better cars than the R107 and personally I think the prices for those cars are inflated.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Having done two BAT auctions, I would not start/end on a Monday or Friday or before 3:00 pm local time. People have too many things going on with those days of the week, and I believe it cuts down on the casual observers who might get the bug at the last minute. Both of mine started and ended on a Tuesday, and they were pretty busy in the last hour or two.

    I have yet to figure out who writes copy for BAT, but whoever they are, they rarely seem to focus on details or aspects of the cars that make them marketable. I wrote copy for both of my cars and sent it in with the photos, and they pretty well ignored all of it. In one instance, I dug in my heels and made them change some things and add others that I felt would be important to potential buyers. They weren't keen about it, but I forced the issue and played the "I've been a Mercedes person for nearly 30 years" card and they backed down. The person who wrote the copy for both of my cars was clearly not familiar with the model.

    Sorry it didn't work out for you as planned, but at least you were able to sell the car.

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    What is with them being so resistant to allowing a knowledgeable seller to write at least SOME of the ad copy? I mean, they are going to proofread & fix speeling/grammir errors anyway, you'd think they would prefer someone to write the copy who has a clue. Or are they just that pompous?


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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Noticing a trend on the BaT of late...

    Lots and Lots of RNMs.

    This calendar week:

    No Reserve: 22
    Sold (Met Reserve): 78
    RNM: 52


    Money appears to be scared right now, and BaT seems to be pushing the No Reserve route to avoid the optics of more and more No Sales.

    $0.02



    EDIT
    I stated that this was a trend. I don't know for certain, but 40% RNM seems far in excess of what was seen throughout 2018.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    At these values, cars are no longer “good investments”... I call it “people expressing preference for cash”. My sense is this will be a plateau unless: (1) another market run up produces more cash for buyers, a la 2016-2017; or (2) prices retreat to the stratosphere. I’ve seen that softening trend at every auction since the spring, irrespective of venue, actually.

    maw

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    If I were BaT, I’d try and find an incentive for the seller to go into a No Reserve listing. While Buyers pay a 5% fee up to $100K sales today, BaT could charge a Seller’s fee of X% (and summarily removing the $99 fee) for auctions with a reserve. No Reserve auctions would only cost $99 still.

    I also think they could monetize exclusivity (i.e. a premium if a seller wants to ensure their specific model is the only one listed during the 7 days — so no 2 E500Es but an E500E and an E420 could coexist).

    My $0.02 (or maybe $0.04).


    Robert

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    ^^^ very smart comments. You should tell them. They just might adopt those. It would be good business for them.

    maw

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Ehhh, I tried to start a conversation with the BAT folks on a couple of topics I felt would make their venue and the process a bit easier to use and more attractive to both sellers and buyers.

    I got a pat on the head and a cookie, and was sent on my way.

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Money appears to be scared right now, and BaT seems to be pushing the No Reserve route to avoid the optics of more and more No Sales.
    The market's been tanking somewhat. I'm long in Apple (almost 30 years long) and even I've been a little concerned about what's afoot. I'm betting that might very well have some people deciding to keep their wallets in their pocket.

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    Ehhh, I tried to start a conversation with the BAT folks on a couple of topics I felt would make their venue and the process a bit easier to use and more attractive to both sellers and buyers.

    I got a pat on the head and a cookie, and was sent on my way.

    Dan
    i met a guy locally who is a friend of the founder of BaT and he told me last night BaT has been clearing $300K/week! It may be hard for them to hear anyone over the ringing of the cash register. Necessity is the mother of (re)invention so we’ll see as the market ebbs.


    Robert

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntrepid View Post
    i met a guy locally who is a friend of the founder of BaT and he told me last night BaT has been clearing $300K/week! It may be hard for them to hear anyone over the ringing of the cash register. Necessity is the mother of (re)invention so we’ll see as the market ebbs.
    Per WEEK?? As in, $15M per year? That sounds too good to be true. If accurate, you are correct, they'll be completely disinterested in consturctive / helpful feedback. And they'll be able to hire people to pass out cookies and pats on the head to folks like Dan.


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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Right. 150 cars a week @ $2K/car average gets you there.

    Supposedly they got a strong offer to sell but they did not want to sell to a site which determines values (and I think they are waiiting to make a larger dent and have the market move to them).


    Robert

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Noticing a trend on the BaT of late...

    Lots and Lots of RNMs.

    This calendar week:

    No Reserve: 22
    Sold (Met Reserve): 78
    RNM: 52
    Funny, I started informally keeping track of this same thing over last month or so and I have observed the same trend.
    To me it is an indication of the overall market sentiment right now (not just BAT, not just cars). Hopefully it is just the typical October blues and we see end of Q4 uptick or January February uptick, but I am not sure (obviously, or I would be a billionaire).

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Last night, BaT released a significant redesign of their Auction page. They've dropped the recently completed auctions from the bottom of the page.

    If they weren't running a 40% RNM rate these days, would that change have been made?
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    I don't think its just BaT or just cars.

    + Housing has flatlined. Looking at the stocks of the big national builders --- all these taken a dive in the past quarter
    + Houses themselves -- in California all the way from northern to southern CA near the coast --- houses ain't selling anymore.
    + Forward looking P/E on the stock market isn't looking good.
    + Interest rates will increase more. Lastest unemployment figures means the Fed will certainly raise rates in December
    + China's economy is big enough that what's bad for them is also bad for us in the USA, and vice versa. China is down to a 6.7% growth rate and their stock market has taken a beating. Remember when less than double digit growth was considered bad?
    + Trade wars. Trade wars. Trade wars. The average consumer hasn't yet felt the effect --- but will very very soon.
    + Inflation is upon us --- whether its supply side inflation (tariffs) or demand side (wage hikes / interest rate). Anecdote - my local quartz/granite shop just hiked prices 25% across the board due to tariffs ... 2 weeks ago.

    Anyways - cars are just a roadkill on the road to recession. People want to keep cash right now.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Last night, BaT released a significant redesign of their Auction page. They've dropped the recently completed auctions from the bottom of the page.
    They did drop completed auctions from the bottom of the Auctions page.
    If you want to find completed auctions I found them at https://bringatrailer.com/auctions/results/
    It is in a new drop down in the Auctions tab on the home page.
    Last edited by msq; 11-10-2018 at 12:08 PM.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    I don't think its just BaT or just cars.

    + Housing has flatlined. Looking at the stocks of the big national builders --- all these taken a dive in the past quarter
    + Houses themselves -- in California all the way from northern to southern CA near the coast --- houses ain't selling anymore.
    + Forward looking P/E on the stock market isn't looking good.
    + Interest rates will increase more. Lastest unemployment figures means the Fed will certainly raise rates in December
    + China's economy is big enough that what's bad for them is also bad for us in the USA, and vice versa. China is down to a 6.7% growth rate and their stock market has taken a beating. Remember when less than double digit growth was considered bad?
    + Trade wars. Trade wars. Trade wars. The average consumer hasn't yet felt the effect --- but will very very soon.
    + Inflation is upon us --- whether its supply side inflation (tariffs) or demand side (wage hikes / interest rate). Anecdote - my local quartz/granite shop just hiked prices 25% across the board due to tariffs ... 2 weeks ago.

    Anyways - cars are just a roadkill on the road to recession. People want to keep cash right now.
    spot on. Wage growth is easily going to be eaten up by interest rates and tariffs costs so basically no net gain in household incomes. Administration is in a weaker position to do a China deal now too. They are estimating some huge Christmas selling season this year so I am interested to see how that pans out.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    The market's been tanking somewhat. I'm long in Apple (almost 30 years long) and even I've been a little concerned about what's afoot. I'm betting that might very well have some people deciding to keep their wallets in their pocket.

    Dan
    I'm holding my Apple. Just a blip.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    I'm holding my Apple. Just a blip.
    Yeah, I've been in it this long, I'm certainly not exiting now. Just a little disconcerting when you see the share price drop $20 in a week, even if the year's gain is still almost 21% despite it.

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Did anyone notice that in yesterday's BAT closings that nearly a third of the sales didn't hit reserve?

    I'm wondering if the current financial situation is forcing people out of the market, or maybe it's a seasonal thing?

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    Did anyone notice that in yesterday's BAT closings that nearly a third of the sales didn't hit reserve?

    I'm wondering if the current financial situation is forcing people out of the market, or maybe it's a seasonal thing?

    Dan
    There's no question that the stock market plunge (driven by FAANG stocks) has reduced peoples' confidence, and bullish buying psychology. I've been saying this for weeks now. If things keep going down, I expect that we will see many of the recently acquired cars being sold by their new-ish owners. Hopefully at fire-sale prices.

    It's amazing what rapid growth in folks' 401ks and stock portfolios does to their psychology.

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    Did anyone notice that in yesterday's BAT closings that nearly a third of the sales didn't hit reserve?
    Take out the No Reserve listings (of which there were 17) and there were 18 RNMs and 24 Solds. So 43% were unsold.



    Following up on the earlier discussion abouit BaT moving the "Results" off the main page... they have also changed the nomenclature for No Sale or RNM.

    They're now referring to RNM listings as "Bid to $XXXX"

    Yeah, no shit the listing was bid to. Any listing which received a bid was "bid to."

    I can smell the desperation from these guys.
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Take out the No Reserve listings (of which there were 17) and there were 18 RNMs and 24 Solds. So 43% were unsold.



    Following up on the earlier discussion abouit BaT moving the "Results" off the main page... they have also changed the nomenclature for No Sale or RNM.

    They're now referring to RNM listings as "Bid to $XXXX"

    Yeah, no shit the listing was bid to. Any listing which received a bid was "bid to."

    I can smell the desperation from these guys.
    They've been using the "bid to" term for a while, I believe. I tend to scroll down to these listings on my daily BAT email to see what didn't make is and what failed miserably.

    Dan

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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    If things keep going down, I expect that we will see many of the recently acquired cars being sold by their new-ish owners. Hopefully at fire-sale prices.

    It's amazing what rapid growth in folks' 401ks and stock portfolios does to their psychology.
    This is good for those of us in the (car) market right now. I'm waiting in the wings for things to tank. That and the holidays are here, so there are often desperation sales, too....

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  96. #112
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    They've been using the "bid to" term for a while, I believe. I tend to scroll down to these listings on my daily BAT email to see what didn't make is and what failed miserably.

    Dan
    I'm fairly certain the Bid To was a change in the past week.
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

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  98. #113
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Yes, yes and yes. Markets ebb and flow. You want to be buying when people are selling, and selling when people are buying. Some of it is of course stock market driven, since the same buyers, sellers and collectors tend to be investors. Some of it (and the market sell off) is the end of the Free Money Fed — the money should never have been free in the first place, so ending that is inevitable and probably good. So buying time is coming. You can pull the trigger now, but by my sights it’s still a bit early. When I see grown men crying in the streets...

    maw

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  100. #114
    Senior Member LWB250's Avatar
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    I'm fairly certain the Bid To was a change in the past week.
    "Bid To" has been used as far back as 2014 from what I can see:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...a-sport-sedan/

  101. #115
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    "Bid To" has been used as far back as 2014 from what I can see:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...a-sport-sedan/

    That was a retroactive change. They simply changed all of the listings which were indicated by Reserve Not Met.



    EDIT. They haven't gotten around to changing the legend on the market graph tool yet.


    .Capture1111.PNG
    Last edited by ace10; 11-24-2018 at 09:25 AM.
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

  102. #116
    Senior Member LWB250's Avatar
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Interesting. Sort of like putting lipstick on the proverbial pig?

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  104. #117
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    I think their business is slowing down, likely fairly dramatically in recent weeks.

    They were doing so nicely over the past couple of years, that they thought the gravy train would never stop. Now they are scrambling to make adjustments because reality is staring them in the face.

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  106. #118
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    And they have diluted their product by having too many auctions at once. I used to read the site to see if anything interesting came up in the discussions. Now there is no point because many auctions have only a little commenting (excluding some regulars who seem to be devoted to promoting each other’s auctions).

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  108. #119
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Agreed with both. I think they are in the process of killing the golden goose, much of which (I think) is due to becoming less exclusive and simply blowing out as many auctions as they possibly can each day. I'v seen daily numbers as high as the 30s. Kind of tarnishes the luster and dilutes the cachet when you're running that many at a time.

    It's becoming more and more of an online Mannheim high line auction. Only difference is the lack of Amish guys driving the cars through the lanes...

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  110. #120
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    Re: Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

    Doesn't help that everyone is getting murdered in the markets the past two months. I'm sure lots of potential buyers have lost lots of money recently.
    '00 E55 AMG
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