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Thread: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
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    B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Cheers all!


    In the project car, 1995 SL500 B1 Seal is leaking, I manged to remove the assembly w/o dropping transmission, but for the life of me, this B1 cover, the white seal




    Needs to be re-installed, can't figure out how to take these pieces apart,





    I can see a clip there, I'm sure that is what's holding these together, but I don't want to screw it up, how do you take these apart???


    Thanks for your help in advance!


    Regards,
    D

  2. #2
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Ok, so I figured it out, the bastard clip:



    Not sure if there is a special tool, but I had to firmly pull two plates apart to gain access to the clip...



    Two small screw drivers on each side to pry it up, and it released the shaft of the inner plate enough to separate these two

    Groove of the shaft...



    Now, I know our tunnels are different, but if it helps anyone with R129, this is the "fancy" tool I fabricated, worked fine, turn buckle, replaced the screw on one end, so it fits flush into the B1 piston cover and 2x4 notched and height from the floor to the upper end of the tunnel to keep threaded loop of buckle from turning



    New fluids (again), drained the converter again, this has the be the cleanest lube this tranny been since new!

    Tomorrow - will see, but there SHOULD NOT be any more leaks, cleaned everything, sprayed and wiped everything bone dry, large tray with white cardboard under the car for the night.... Kinda bitch of the job, but did not have to drop the tranny. Now this guy deserves a beer (2)


    Regards,
    D

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  4. #3
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duh_Vinci View Post
    Ok, so I figured it out... Tomorrow - will see, but there SHOULD NOT be any more leaks, cleaned everything, sprayed and wiped everything bone dry, large tray with white cardboard under the car for the night.... Kinda bitch of the job, but did not have to drop the tranny. Now this guy deserves a beer (2)
    If you didn't reset the piston, you likely just over extended that grooved shaft from the piston, which may result in too little B1 band clearance. That is an automatic clearance adjuster, and it can not be taken apart without being reset. If you compressed the shaft into the piston with force, then you likely damaged the diaphragm finger spring that retains the piston. That groove minus double the thickness of the clip IS the band free travel. You should replace the diaphragm spring as a precaution now since you have to remove it to reset the device anyway, and the early springs were a little too weak and failure prone anyway. The diaphragm spring part number is 140 993 14 26. The snap ring for the diaphragm spring is 126 272 13 73. The "bastard clip" if you boogered it up and need one is 126 277 29 73.

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    Last edited by Klink; 04-29-2018 at 12:32 AM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    If you didn't reset the piston, you likely just over extended that grooved shaft from the piston, which may result in too little B1 band clearance. That is an automatic clearance adjuster, and it can not be taken apart without being reset. If you compressed the shaft into the piston with force, then you likely damaged the diaphragm finger spring that retains the piston. That groove minus double the thickness of the clip IS the band free travel. You should replace the diaphragm spring as a precaution now since you have to remove it to reset the device anyway, and the early springs were a little too weak and failure prone anyway. The diaphragm spring part number is 140 993 14 26. The snap ring for the diaphragm spring is 126 272 13 73. The "bastard clip" if you boogered it up and need one is 126 277 29 73.
    Cheers and thank you very much for the diagrams, appreciate it!


    I must admit, I got pretty lucky, didn't mess anything up, not even the bastard clip. When I tried to pull apart both plates, the clip became visible, was able to remove it... Then the shaft, and measured the original recess depth of the rod. Then, after cleaned everything up, dry test fitted it back together, and saw the faint oxidized marking on the shaft were original depth was set. Everything is back in place, drives and shifts perfect, very smooth!

    But, yes, there is a BUT!!! B2 has a wetness around it... Would you happen to know if the white Teflon ring (red arrow) and the orange inner o-ring (17) are the same for B1 as they are for B2?

    B2_piston

    Any tricks or special instructions for reinstalling this one?

    Huge thanks for the help!!!

    Regards,
    D

  7. #5
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    If you didn't reset the piston, you likely just over extended that grooved shaft from the piston, which may result in too little B1 band clearance. That is an automatic clearance adjuster, and it can not be taken apart without being reset. If you compressed the shaft into the piston with force, then you likely damaged the diaphragm finger spring that retains the piston. That groove minus double the thickness of the clip IS the band free travel. You should replace the diaphragm spring as a precaution now since you have to remove it to reset the device anyway, and the early springs were a little too weak and failure prone anyway. The diaphragm spring part number is 140 993 14 26. The snap ring for the diaphragm spring is 126 272 13 73. The "bastard clip" if you boogered it up and need one is 126 277 29 73.
    Klink, if what you describe happens, and there is too little B1 band clearance... what is the resulting problem / symptom you would notice when driving?



    Quote Originally Posted by Duh_Vinci View Post
    B2 has a wetness around it... Would you happen to know if the white Teflon ring (red arrow) and the orange inner o-ring (17) are the same for B1 as they are for B2?
    No. The B1 and B2 seals are different sizes, different p/n's. While it's probably good to replace the Teflon rings, I've never done this. I don't think it's required unless they are damaged. The O-rings for the outer cover are the source of the external fluid leakage.


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  9. #6
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    ...No. The B1 and B2 seals are different sizes, different p/n's. While it's probably good to replace the Teflon rings, I've never done this. I don't think it's required unless they are damaged. The O-rings for the outer cover are the source of the external fluid leakage.

    I'm going to take that diagram above to the dealer tomorrow, they were a little confused to what part I was needed, but I think that would help with ordering that O-Ring (17) in that diagram. The teflon rings are only $10 or so, will indeed replace it as well, sh be considerably easier to do all than B1.

    Regards,
    D

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  11. #7
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Klink, if what you describe happens, and there is too little B1 band clearance... what is the resulting problem / symptom you would notice when driving?

    Only a little tight, likely nothing. So tight that it drags? Burn it up. Too loose? Hard 1-2-1 shifts, and/or initial slip during a shift followed by too hard completion of the shift.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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  13. #8
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Love the turn buckle to depress the B1 cover in the car! Great idea- yes there is a good place opposite on the W124 body.

    The silicone rubber o-rings all absorb fluid w/time. MB would have been far better to use Viton than Silicone. Tranmission never gets hot enough ever to need silicone. Viton would hold up much better in these applications.


    Michael

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  15. #9
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
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    Re: B1 722.3 cover - seal change help please?

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Love the turn buckle to depress the B1 cover in the car! ...
    The only thing I would have done differently (if I had to do this again) is to add the large socket, and sandwich it between the head of the bolt and an extra nut, this would have made a much sturdier tool!



    But done, holding and that's that...

    I did change B2 seal today, only o-ring orange one, there is no way to withdraw the piston out to change the white inner seal without dropping transmission out. at least on R129, there is about 1 1/8" clearance between the tunnel and the piston. Sooooo much easier to remove and reinstall than B1.

    Went for a test drive, shift smooth, burns tires, no leaks, bone dry both B1 and B2! Progress!!!

    Regards,
    D

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