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Thread: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

  1. #1

    Cool Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    I've got a few leaks and whatnot that I've just been living with, most notably the lower engine cover gasket, and this being my daily driver (just rolled over 250k) I feel like its time to just do a bunch of stuff at once and "bulletproof" the car for a while. My indy mechanic talked me in to pulling the engine. This is my list so far:

    Timing chain, tensioner and guides
    Oiler tubes
    Timing case, manifold, oil pan and valve cover gaskets, crank seals, and all other gaskets and seals that are accessible
    Power steering pump (rebuild)

    I've replaced the throttle actuator and MAF within the last two years with fresh gaskets throughout the intake tract so I'll probably leave that alone. Recently did the water pump as well, so thats fine.

    I'm also going to have him pull the dash and do the evaporator and pods at the same time. Anything else I should do while the dash is out?

    Any advice you guys can offer is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    E500E Guru TerryA's Avatar
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Along w/ the power steering pump. Don’t forget to replace the power steering hard lines. Practically impossible to do with the engine in.
    Terry

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  4. #3
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    I think Terry means the power steering return hose that is mostly hidden behind the heat shield, along the frame rail on the driver side... yes, definitely change that hose while the engine is out. And if the steering box isn't bone dry, this would be a convenient time to re-seal the output side. Idler arm bushings are another item that is easier with engine out.

    Related question: Is the transmission coming out too? If so... unless it's a recent rebuild, you'll want to replace EVERY external seal. Parts are cheap and labor isn't bad with the trans on the workbench. And with the trans out, you can replace the tunnel insulation as well, as it's usually swollen or shredding after 25 years / 250k...

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  6. #4

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    I’m not sure about the transmission yet. I really, really want to swap in a 722.6 using one of these controllers:

    https://www.powertraincontrolsolutio...on_Controller/

    I’m not sure if I want to do it all at the same time or push the transmission off to another time. Current unit is going strong with only minimal slippage.

  7. #5

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Also, thoughts on a REIN brand evaporator? OEM is ~4x as much and I'm not seeing any other options. I've never used REIN parts and I see that they're listed as hit or miss.

  8. #6
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    I'd skip the 722.6 conversion for now. That's a whooooole 'nuther project. If your 722.3 has "minimal slippage", and does not have an extended delay into reverse (1-2 second at most), and has a clean pan.... it's probably got plenty of life left. Tweaking some of the VB springs and adjusting the modulator may be all it needs to shift better. If it has serious slip issues that won't go away with springs/modulator adjustment, Jono recommends trying Type F fluid to buy additional time before a rebuild or replacement. I still don't know anyone who has documented a 722.6 swap into a 124 chassis with M119 engine, so I'm not sure what headaches might arise with clearance.

    The Rein evaporator is probably made in China. Given that it's like 20-40 hours labor to replace the blasted thing, I'd pay 4x all day long for the OE evap, to not ever have to do that job again. Some things aren't worth a gamble and I'd put this high on the list. Maybe Jono knows of a decent alternative?


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  10. #7

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    My 722.3 definitely has some life left, I just hate it. The one glaring flaw the car has after you upgrade the brakes imo.

    I will absolutely do it eventually for that reason. I spoke to a guy over a year ago in Oregon or Washington who has swapped a 722.6 in to a W124, but I don’t think it was a V8 car. I will likely put it off though as I have this job scheduled already and it would be tough to get all the parts/know how together to tackle the tranny as well in time.

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  12. #8

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    I hear you on the REIN evap, def don’t want it to fail again soon.

    Interesting story about the evap swap. A buddy of mine who used to work the parts desk at an MB dealership told me they had a tech in the late nineties who could do two in a day. He claimed MB sent an engineer and a camera crew from Germany to watch him do it. This was in the LA area, not sure which dealership. The story could be exaggerated a bit but I choose to believe

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  14. #9
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    The 722.3 when built properly is excellent. Most of the time when people hate it, the 722.3 isn't working right. If you've never driven a car with a near-perfect 722.3 it's hard to believe.

    There is a dealer tech in Washington (whippleM104 / Russell) that has the 722.6 behind a supercharged M104, I think. The older controllers had a number of flaws IMO, but supposedly the newer aftermarket TCU's are pretty good and decently close to factory. The 722.6 with factory TCU (in W210 E60, anyway) shifts very nicely. Since the 722.6 has electronic control, it can adapt as the transmission wears, so it can still shift pretty well with 200k+. By comparison, when the 722.3 wears, you need to manually fiddle with different springs, tweak the modulator, and experiment with different fluids to try and compensate for the wear.


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  16. #10

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The 722.3 when built properly is excellent. Most of the time when people hate it, the 722.3 isn't working right. If you've never driven a car with a near-perfect 722.3 it's hard to believe.

    There is a dealer tech in Washington (whippleM104 / Russell) that has the 722.6 behind a supercharged M104, I think. The older controllers had a number of flaws IMO, but supposedly the newer aftermarket TCU's are pretty good and decently close to factory. The 722.6 with factory TCU (in W210 E60, anyway) shifts very nicely. Since the 722.6 has electronic control, it can adapt as the transmission wears, so it can still shift pretty well with 200k+. By comparison, when the 722.3 wears, you need to manually fiddle with different springs, tweak the modulator, and experiment with different fluids to try and compensate for the wear.
    I may have to look in to this a little further. Mine has always pissed me off, it just never seems to be there with the shift when it should be.

  17. #11
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mejnoon View Post
    I may have to look in to this a little further. Mine has always pissed me off, it just never seems to be there with the shift when it should be.
    Adjusting the Bowden (control pressure) cable can make it more downshift-happy at part throttle, if that is what's bugging you.

    Alternately, start using the shift lever more often, especially at part throttle when you want to drop a gear or two without going all WOT, or to prevent an unwanted upshift.

    For the record, on my W210 E60's, I still use the shift lever quite a bit even with the 722.6 box.


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  19. #12

    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Found BEHR evaporator for $250

  20. #13
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mejnoon View Post
    Found BEHR evaporator for $250
    Be careful! Jono says a lot of current Behr products are made in China now. If it's old stock, it may be fine. If not...


  21. #14
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mejnoon View Post
    My 722.3 definitely has some life left, I just hate it. The one glaring flaw the car has after you upgrade the brakes imo.
    Found a great Klink rant on the transmission at the link below, see post #42 in case the link doesn't take you directly there:

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...ll=1#post92192

    Money quote: "During enthusiastic driving, these cars were intended to be manually shifted, and if you ever rode with one of the old school engineering types that's exactly what they did. It's why the shifter gates are there, so you don't have to look at it and think about it, you can just slap that thing around like a red headed step child and it predictably, reliably and controllably does what you ask."


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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    There is a chain and tensioner on the oil pump. If you have an early style belt tensioner, replace the cover and go w the newer style.

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  25. #16
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    Re: Engine is coming out - what should I do while its out?

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    If you have an early style belt tensioner, replace the cover and go w the newer style.
    Good point - I forgot about that. Yes, if you have an early car with manual serpentine belt tensioner... this would be the ideal time to upgrade to the automatic tensioner setup, if your existing timing cover doesn't have the mounting boss required. (You'll need a few other parts for the swap too, but it should be worth it. IIRC, someone posted a thread about making a hybrid with auto tensioner and 8-rib belt, which may be easier.)


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