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Thread: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

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    FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    VIN = ?????

    https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto...629346407.html


    1992 Mercedes Benz MB 500E 500 E - $14000 (westchester)

    1992 Mercedes Benz 500E. Very rare car. 156k miles. It is in excellent shape for its age. Lowered on 19" 1552 R43 wheels. Vehicle is located in Westchester Miami.

    contact name: Patrick

    call:
    ☎ (305) 322-2449
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1993 500E
    1994 E320 cabriolet

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Another "dumped" 500E, on 19s no less! Oy!

    The hanging trunk lamp lens told me all I need to know on this one.

    So. Much. Bling.

    Looks like a nice quality rolling parts donator car, to me.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)



    Poor car. And those wheels... my curiosity got the better of me.
    https://fifteen52.com/collections/cast-wheels?page=2

    Model R43


    Are there really all that many stock parts left on that car?
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Hey, at least the asking price is reasonable... if it's rust-free (or close to it), this could be a decent fixer-upper. I know Gerry wants to euthanize any car that isn't concours, but this one could be salvaged into a decent driver.

    That said: the upper radiator support is missing some decals, and has the radiator attached with a Zip-tie... and it's been facelifted... with wrong headlights... makes me suspect a front-end impact. Again, at this price, not a deal-breaker; however I'd inspect the front end closely for hidden damage. Needs a dipstick too. But it has Meyle HD strut mounts!

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    If the inventor of the wheel could see those - he might want to go back and reconsider....
    1993 500E Signal Red/Parchment
    1987 300TDT Ivory/Palomino
    1995 E320 Cabrio Black/Parchment
    1969 280SL Silver/Green - 1970 280SL Black/Parchmen
    1987 560SL Signal Red/Palomino

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    A $15K rolling parts car today, was what a $5-7K rolling parts car was 8-10 years ago.

    As I always say, NOBODY is going to invest the time, money and energy to rehab a car like this. At best it will get bought and driven into the ground, and then will be a parts car anyway.....albeit with fewer "good" parts to share with other cars to help them stay on the road.

    IMHO, if you're paying much below $15K for an E500E these days, it's going to be a pretty rough one, and will cost 6-8x that to properly bring it back.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    .....

    IMHO, if you're paying much below $15K for an E500E these days, it's going to be a pretty rough one, and will cost 6-8x that to properly bring it back.
    Yuuuuup.



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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    I would.

    And is that the cost you figure for someone who does it their self or is that labor included?

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenzMercD View Post
    And is that the cost you figure for someone who does it their self or is that labor included?
    Gerry's $5-$10k ballpark cost of deferred maintenance is paying an indy shop for parts & labor.

    For DIY labor with discounted OE/OEM parts, figure half of that, maybe less. A complete suspension replacement front+rear will run ~$2k in parts, but it should ride like new afterwards.


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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Yes, generally speaking that's professional rates, with perhaps a bit of "average Joe" DIY thrown in for good measure. That would include parts markup from an indy shop, which can be considerable.

    People have given me a lot of crap when I came up with those figures, and in some instances, they still do.

    There are also plenty of posts here by people who have experienced the above deferred maintenance numbers personally, and have concurred with them.



    I've had more than a few PM conversations along the lines of the following with buyers, sellers and (they seem to get the most indignant) flippers:

    THEM: "Well....MY car doesn't need a single thing ... it's perfect! I've always maintained it with an open checkbook! Your figure doesn't apply to me!"

    ME: "How many miles does your car have on it?"

    THEM: "125K impeccably, cost-no-object maintained miles. I've got a stack of neatly organized maintenance paperwork that's two feet high from previous owners."

    ME: "Do you have documented proof that your motor mounts and transmission mount have ever been changed?"

    THEM: "No, and my car is perfect so it doesn't need them."

    ME: "Do you get a slight buzzing/vibration/rattling from your dashboard when the car is idling?"

    THEM: "Well, now that you mention it, and I just went out and checked, yes I do."

    ME: "Do you do your own work on the car?"

    THEM: "A little stuff, moderate, like oil changes, filters, general maintenance. I think that doing the motor mounts is probably more than I would care to/want to do myself. I see from the forum that it's pretty difficult, even for experienced folks."

    ME: "There's $2,000 of your $5-10K of deferred maintenance. Just changing out those three rubber and steel parts."

    THEM: "I got it. Yeah, I guess maybe your numbers aren't too far off then."

    ME: "Uh-huh"


    Now you know why I can't stand flippers.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    If $5K in repairs/maintenance right out of the gate scares a prospective buyer of a 20 plus year old car, then they shouldn't be shopping for a 20 plus year old car, IMO.

    One of the Landcruisers I picked up last year was low mile, out of Florida. And I've pumped $8-10K into it for fixes, maintenance and simple cosmetics. Land Cruisers were expensive when new, and don't stop being expensive when they get old.

    And then there's the cherry '95 Tacoma I bought this Spring... it's basically a lifted Corolla in terms of complexity. Yet I've had to do a power steering flush because the pump was starved, front wheel bearings, new tires, a couple of small cosmetics and now I've got a cracked exhaust manifold (common issue). That's approaching $4K in a couple of months... The truck wasn't even $20K when new.


    On the 036, the only item which really scares me from a $$ perspective, aside from a serious drivetrain issue, is the A/C... Can't see A/C functionality in pictures.

    Mandatory PPI for these cars. No doubt about it.
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    The 500E right to die movement is one that I have struggled with.
    On the one hand, it is going take a good amount of time, money and energy to rehab a car like this.
    But on the other hand, if it is still drive-able, why euthanize it?





    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    ....I know Gerry wants to euthanize any car that isn't concours, but this one could be salvaged into a decent driver....

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Sometimes, it is "for the best of all the breed" to put down and part out a car, rather than let it suffer further degradation in the hands of owners who are only going to neglect it and further oversee its descent into demise.

    I know it's cruel, but someone has to make the hard decisions. Some cars are just donators for the good of the rest. The sooner that folks realize that, the better all of us will be. Meaning, there will be more hard to find parts available.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    I'm over $10k now on my well sorted car. That engine out service for timing chain was not cheap. Rear SLS struts are almost 400 each and just changed myself. Waiting for blower motor to go next. I've put 30k miles on the car since purchase and looking forward to 200k miles. At 172k miles now.
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Yes, generally speaking that's professional rates, with perhaps a bit of "average Joe" DIY thrown in for good measure. That would include parts markup from an indy shop, which can be considerable.

    THEM: "Well....MY car doesn't need a single thing ... it's perfect! I've always maintained it with an open checkbook! Your figure doesn't apply to me!"
    haha i cant tell you how many times someone has brought a car in saying that and i give them a full page list of things they need.

    i think with 5 grand i could make a car like this really nice.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Idk...i figure this thing likes needs damn near Everything. Front, rear suspension, tandem pump, accumulators, various bits of wiring, ignition from top to bottom...ac likely has leaks....i bet she would get Mighty expensive before it was over.

    No telling stuff like hows reverse holding up..how cooked/aged are those timing rails. Makes me nervous just thinking about it.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by BenzMercD View Post
    haha i cant tell you how many times someone has brought a car in saying that and i give them a full page list of things they need.

    I think with 5 grand i could make a car like this really nice.
    Oh I know! You're preachin' to the choir on that one! But still, people get pissed/upset when you tell them that their newly purchased E500E with 80K miles on it, that they just paid $30K for, GUARANTEED .... GUARANTEED ... needs $5K worth of work.

    I've just spent too much time hanging around MB indy ships in Oregon, California and Texas....count their owners among good friends....spent hundreds of hours with them hearing it all, and seeing it .... and most of all experiencing it on my own E500 over the past 15 years (as of next month).

    My pending E500 front crank seal job ... fairly simple thing....has turned into the following:

    1. Replace front crank seal
    2. Replace water pump (thermostat recently done)
    3. Replace smog pump rubber hoses
    4. Clear out blocked EGR hose
    5. Replace all rubber hoses top-of-engine (despite this being done ~2005)
    6. Replace upper chain rails
    7. Replace transmission cooler lower hose
    8. ETA check/replace/rebuild
    9. Replace lower wiring harness


    Just that right there is WAY over $5K at an indy shop. The parts alone (all of which I've accumulated) are expensive enough....my own labor will make this job bearable.

    First I have to roll a new timing chain into my 560SEC.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Agreed, this is why it is so important to also have recent maintenance records and possibly a PPI.
    Without having maintenance records, history, and a PPI report how would one choose from the following cars?

    a. 1993 500e, rust free, 135k miles, $21,000.
    b. 1993 500e, rust free, 185k miles, $21,000.


    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Oh I know! You're preachin' to the choir on that one! But still, people get pissed/upset when you tell them that their newly purchased E500E with 80K miles on it, that they just paid $30K for, GUARANTEED .... GUARANTEED ... needs $5K worth of work....
    Gerry

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester 500E View Post
    Agreed, this is why it is so important to also have recent maintenance records and possibly a PPI.
    Without having maintenance records, history, and a PPI report how would one choose from the following cars?

    a. 1993 500e, rust free, 135k miles, $21,000.
    b. 1993 500e, rust free, 185k miles, $21,000.
    Well, if GSXR owned a car and was selling it, I wouldn't bother with a PPI.

    In fact, I've actually never had an official "PPI" done on a car I've bought, ever. Normally I just look it over myself, look over recent maintenance records, drive the car if applicable, and use my own "gut" assessment of the car's bones. My gut, honestly, has never been wrong about a car. That said, I'm not even 1% emotional when it comes to buying cars -- and I am patient to wait for "just" the right one.

    I also pay healthy money for my cars, and try to always buy the very best example that I can. And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS the "top of the market" car -- that means an E500E, a 560SEC rather than a 380SEC, a 300SEL 6.3 rather than a 300SEL 4.5, a 450SEL 6.9 rather than a 450SEL, a 560SL rather than a 380 or 450SL, a 560SEL rather than a 380 or 420SEL, etc. You get the drift. My 1995 G-wagen, being a G320, was top of the line powertrain for that year, as the 500GE (M117) had ended production and the G500 (M113) had not yet begun production starting ~1997-1998.

    That doesn't mean I pay "stupid" money nor get fleeced. Patience in the searching and buying process helps one study the market. Though for the E500E, we have plenty of experts, backed up by the Internet's best peanut gallery, to help with this market-studying process.

    I realize that many folks are emotional about cars and get caught up in the idea and fantasy of owning that car. This -- and a "ballin' on a budget" mentality -- causes bad decisions to be made. As was said, if you're not prepared IMMEDIATELY to sink at LEAST $5K into any newly acquired Benz, let alone an E500E, then you either can't afford to be in it, or you misunderestimated ownership costs.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    If $5K in repairs/maintenance right out of the gate scares a prospective buyer of a 20 plus year old car, then they shouldn't be shopping for a 20 plus year old car, IMO.


    .
    My thoughts exactly. If one could buy a 20 year old car or even a 5 year old car and not have to put money into it what would be the reasons for buying a new car, other than vanity and more gadgets to distract?

    drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
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    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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    Lightbulb Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Without having maintenance records, history, and a PPI report how would one choose from the following cars?

    a. 1993 500e, rust free, 135k miles, $21,000.
    b. 1993 500e, rust free, 185k miles, $21,000.
    just interviewing the owner often tells you more about the car than looking at it. I had a big pile of maintenance records on my car but after purchase I realized over half were copies of other records in the stack. Knowing the 500E as well as I do now I could seat of the pants it like Gerry.
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  38. #22

    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    After years I could probably do a good assessment on a 500e. It would just be nice to see records of recent work done, just to get a better idea of what the differed maintenance might be.

    I think there is always a gut feeling kind of thing when buying a car.

    In the end, I usually just kick the drivers-side tire, and if if holds up and the car starts, I whip out the wad of Benjamin's. Kidding of course.


    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoD View Post
    just interviewing the owner often tells you more about the car than looking at it. I had a big pile of maintenance records on my car but after purchase I realized over half were copies of other records in the stack. Knowing the 500E as well as I do now I could seat of the pants it like Gerry.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    I bought a 60k Mile garage queen that I knew had been maintained with open checkbooks at least since 97. Then, I left it with my guys with a list of what I wanted done. And came back to a $5k bill. For starters. Wheels, tires, stereo components and exhaust work not included. I’ve spent a few multiples of that on the car since. It is what it is — just the price of entry for a 25-year old Merc, if you want it to run as designed.

    If you don’t care about that, then ... well... stay away from the car.

    Please.

    maw

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Each story just proves my controversial “$5K deferred maintenance” law.

    Now amended to $10K for cars with more than 100K miles on the clock.

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  44. #25

    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    And some cars may need another $1800 to $2000 for a new set of wheels and tires.....

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Each story just proves my controversial “$5K deferred maintenance” law.

    Now amended to $10K for cars with more than 100K miles on the clock.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Each story just proves my controversial “$5K deferred maintenance” law.

    Now amended to $10K for cars with more than 100K miles on the clock.
    As noted earlier in the thread, we can't base the estimate strictly on the odometer reading... service records/history must also be factored in. A high-mile, open-checkbook maintained example may require less expense (say, "only" ~$5k) compared with a low-mile car that only had fluids & filters and monthly waxing, resulting in a bunch maintenance lurking under the very shiny paint (say, the $10k+ number). The infamous Hollyweird car is an extreme example of the latter case.

    We also tend to forget that not everyone is like most forum members here, expecting everything to work perfectly. Some people would be content to have a shiny 036 to roll in, as long as it starts reliably and stays out of limp mode most of the time, and just ignore the $5-$10k needed to make it "right". These folks also miss out on the transcendental experience of driving an E500E as the factory intended it to be.

    BTW, wasn't there a separate thread discussing Gerry's Law of Deferred Maintenance? We could probably move these posts over yonder.


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  48. #27
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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Poor car. And those wheels... my curiosity got the better of me.
    https://fifteen52.com/collections/cast-wheels?page=2

    Model R43

    Are there really all that many stock parts left on that car?
    I know the owner of fifteen52... high quality offerings... His uncle sold me my 500E and we’re still friends... great folks... they’re big on the Porsche and Ford RS circuit... I’m not keen on these for this car, but I’m big on fifteen52.com... I just don’t have a car I’m ready to put $5k worth of wheels on.

    maw

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  50. #28
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    FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    As noted earlier in the thread, we can't base the estimate strictly on the odometer reading... service records/history must also be factored in. (snip)
    Of course you don’t go strictly on odometer readings. But it’s a good generalized indicator. Every car is different.

    How many people have confirmed the conservatism of the $5K rule since I publicly espoused it?

    Many many people...many many people. Too many people to count. Everyone’s having $5K or more. We’re making America Great again, one E500E at a time.

    IMG_9158.GIF

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    I thought i'd seen the Fifteen52 manufacturer before. They make the Tarmac copy of the Evo in 18 inch. Five spokes instead of six but I think they would look good on an 036.

    drew
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Truth. I won’t even with the parts totals on my pedestrian model.




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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, 156kmi, Pearl Black/Gray, $14K (Westchester, FL)

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    Truth. I won’t even with the parts totals on my pedestrian model.




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    I’m happy to continue to supply you with regular parts “fixes” to feed your hoard addiction.

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