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Thread: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

  1. #1
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    Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Hi All,

    I was in my car tonight and was taking off (WOT) and the engine cut out at about 4K RPM and then the engine felt really sluggish and would not run corectly.

    The car doesn't rev properly and will not go past 3,000RPM.

    I've taken a video which is below.

    Has anyone ever experienced this issue?

    The fuel pumps are brand new and I've swapped out 2 LH modules and the problem is still there.

    Could it be a MAF failure?

    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    If it does this in Park or Neutral, it may be a faulty NSS (neutral safety switch / starter lockout / gear position indicator switch). You can check live values from the NSS with a digital scanner, from the E-GAS module. If the NSS is old or original, I'd replace it on principle... they can cause all sorts of weirdness.

    What happens when you drive the car? A rough test for the MAF would be disconnecting it, but based on the video shown I doubt the MAF is at fault.

    Dave M.
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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    The NSS has not been replaced since it has been in the UK and there are no receipts for it ever being changed in Japan so I can only guess that it’s a original part. I thought the NSS doesn’t allow the car to engage properly? The car will still switch from PND.

    Driving the car feels like it has no power, it struggles to rev properly or even get up to speed at all, can the NSS cause this?

    i have a brand new NSS laying around so I will definitely be changing it.
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Update: started the car up today and it’s still running extremely rough, the car stinks of fuel and there’s black smoke when you press the gas mixed in with back fires.

    O2 sensor was changed last year. FPR was changed 2 years ago, checked caps and they’re all dry inside. Spark plugs have been changed also.

    Any ideas?
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    Update: started the car up today and it’s still running extremely rough, the car stinks of fuel and there’s black smoke when you press the gas mixed in with back fires.

    O2 sensor was changed last year. FPR was changed 2 years ago, checked caps and they’re all dry inside. Spark plugs have been changed also.

    Any ideas?
    Caps and rotors are still suspect.
    Dry caps does not mean good caps.
    Contact needs to be copper colored and not black.

    These are an “old” and bad cap and rotor.
    IMG_5095.JPGIMG_5096.JPG

    To fix it temporary:
    Grind the black stuff away with a grind like this:
    (Sandpaper does not do the job)
    IMG_5098.JPG

    Grinding will develop a small “hole” but there will be clean suface copper. Do the same with the cap contacts. Also sandpaper the copper edge of the rotor.
    IMG_5099.JPG

    You are grinding away carbon witch is not a good conductor? (Dont know the right word).

    If this helps you best can change them for new. Give it a try.

    Edit:
    I realize there are 2 types of rotors the other type will be a bit harder to grind.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Hakie; 4 Days Ago at 05:18 AM.

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Thanks Hakie.

    I did take them out and I did check the contact points and there were all in order and looked good.

    I managed to find my blink reader and this is what my numbers read:

    LH - 10
    ASR - 30
    Electronic Accelerator - 3
    BM - 5
    ACC - 1
    EZL - 33-36
    SRS - 3

    I think the only one that looks worrying is the EZL which I think is misfire?

    Can someone with code knowledge chime in to what exactly these codes mean?
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    I dont want to push this but did you take a picture? Dont let the caps and rotors fool you..
    They can go bad in a few months.

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    I thought the NSS doesn’t allow the car to engage properly? The car will still switch from PND.
    No! The NSS Only provides an electrical signal to the computers. It will not prevent gearshift lever movement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    Driving the car feels like it has no power, it struggles to rev properly or even get up to speed at all, can the NSS cause this?
    No, or at least it's highly unlikely the NSS would cause a "low power" issue. But if the car will not rev beyond a certain RPM (say, 3k) under any circumstances, that could be an electrical / computer issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    Update: started the car up today and it’s still running extremely rough, the car stinks of fuel and there’s black smoke when you press the gas mixed in with back fires. O2 sensor was changed last year. FPR was changed 2 years ago, checked caps and they’re all dry inside. Spark plugs have been changed also. Any ideas?
    This sounds a lot like a misfire issue from one distributor cap. How old are the caps / rotors, what brand, and have the insulators been replaced (or at least removed for inspection, checking for liquid on the back side)? As Hakie said, dry caps do not mean anything. The liquid that causes problems cannot be seen without removing the rotor bracket, and removing the insulator. Search the forum for many, many previous discussions on this with lots of photos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    I managed to find my blink reader and this is what my numbers read:

    I think the only one that looks worrying is the EZL which I think is misfire? Can someone with code knowledge chime in to what exactly these codes mean?
    Matin, you'll need to clear ALL of those codes, drive the car, and see which ones return immediately. Based only on those codes, particularly LH #10 and E-GAS #3, the ETA looks suspect to me - how old is it?

    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Hi Dave, Hakie,

    I haven’t changed the caps in a while, so I have some brand new BERU ones in the post along with rotors (thought it’s time for them to be changed anyway as they’re not that expensive.).

    ETA was changed about 10 months ago with a new biodegradable wire one, old one was faulty so I guess the car threw up codes for that because I didn’t clear them.

    The car still fires up but still feels like it’s not firing on all cylinders, the ignition coil wire (the one in the middle of the drivers side distributor) didn’t look so good when I was inspecting the wires (could this be the cause?).

    I guess we’ll see how the car fires once I get the new distributors and rotors, but from past experience, the car would still start and sound normal even though the distributors had moisture in them, but when I start it up from cold now, it runs extremely rough.

    I have already got an NSS switch which I had bought previously but never fitted, do you really think that this could be the problem? The car does “jump” a bit when I shift the gears, but the car is pretty much undriveable at the moment. Is it hard to change?

    Thanks for the help!

    Matin
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    The NSS would not cause the rough running. Based on what you describe, your rough running is ignition related... trick will be figuring out which component(s) are at fault.

    The NSS is not difficult to change, but not easy either, due to very limited space. If you have a lift so you can stand underneath, that helps a lot. If you are having trouble, you can unbolt the rear transmission mount and lever the trans sideways in the tunnel to gain an extra ~10mm or space, which may help... and/or, lower the rear of the trans an inch or two. Don't forget to adjust it per spec with shift lever in Neutral, and the 4mm pin (a thick electrical wire can work nicely).


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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Definately appears so, it's just so odd that the car was driving normally, then after a WOT burst, it started playing up like this.

    Is there a specific part number for ignition coil wires? Do you know the p/n for the coil pack? Never really done any of that so I'm not sure 100% what to change.

    Thanks
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    I'm starting to think it's an EZL problem, from reading the forum and from what others have described it sounds like it *could* be that as I don't believe it's ever been changed.

    I've read that E500E have specific EZL numbers, but I've also read that other models 400E/S500/SL500 EZL's can also be used in the 500E - is this correct?

    My car is a 1992 model, does it have a specific p/n?
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matin View Post
    I'm starting to think it's an EZL problem, from reading the forum and from what others have described it sounds like it *could* be that as I don't believe it's ever been changed.

    I've read that E500E have specific EZL numbers, but I've also read that other models 400E/S500/SL500 EZL's can also be used in the 500E - is this correct?

    My car is a 1992 model, does it have a specific p/n?
    NO, a 4.2 liter EZL CANNOT AND MUST NOT be used with a 5-liter engine.

    A 5-liter EZL from an R129 or a W140 CAN be used with the E500E and in many cases is spec'd for it.

    Reference guide was just posted here -- please use it as how it was intended: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/wik...mber-Reference

    What it essentially boils down to, is that you want the EZL part number 015 545 61 32.

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    EZL failure modes are typically either total loss of one coil/distributor, or both. And they are not intermittent. If the car sometimes runs fine on all 8 cylinders, it's almost guaranteed the EZL is not at fault.

    That said, it would be a good idea to have a spare unit around. Right now they are easy to source, a number of years from now that may not be the case...


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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    Thank you Gerry and Dave.

    Since Friday the car has not started on 8 cylinders again - I checked the spark in the plugs and it seems like some fire and some don't?

    I also switched the EZL with another one on the self and it was having the same problem. (although don't know if that one is fully working either tbh).

    Distributor caps / rotors have been cleaned throughly and I have checked the back of the insulators and there was no moisture.

    The only thing that I can think of to test is the ignition coil packs - could this cause this to happen? I have some brand new Bosch ones in the post as I don't believe these have ever been changed and are still running on the original 25 y/o ones.

    The problem continues..
    Matin

    1992 500E - JAPAN SPEC

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    Re: Help - Engine not running properly - possible fuel issue?

    It's unlikely that two EZLs would be bad. Coils would be the next place to look. In any case, a bad EZL can take out a coil, so there can be an inter-relation between them. Coils can also be intermittent.

    While you're waiting for your coils to arrive, have you checked resistance on your plug wires, including the two wires that go from the coils? There is information here on the forum about how to do that.

    I'm still not 100% convinced that your caps and rotors and insulators are 100%. Cleaning them does not always solve the problem, and often if it does, only for a short time before the problem returns.

    As Dave said, EZLs only have three possible modes of operation:

    1. Operating correctly (firing all eight cylinders)
    2. Zero operation (the car cranks but will not start nor run)
    3. Half operation (only one of the two banks of cylinders runs)

    EZLs do not operate intermittently. Either they work well, work partially (easy to tell if an entire cylinder bank is operating or not), or not at all.

    My very strong bet is that you have a bad coil (the LH M119 does not use coil packs; only the ME-based M119 used for 1996 and 1997 in the w210, W140 and R129 used coil packs and did not have distributors).

    Also, pardon my ignorance.....has your upper wiring harness been replaced with a non-destructive wiring design?

    Your original symptoms are pointing to a LOT of unburned fuel, and this would generally be caused by one or more cylinders not firing. I bet you'll find a bad coil. Your video (sound and visual) points to a cylinder bank not firing.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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