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Thread: Respray at a body shop concern

  1. #1

    Respray at a body shop concern

    Hello all,

    The clearcoat layer on the roof, hood, and trunk of my car has gone cloudy and it needs a respray. To determine where I want to get this done, I used BASF's body shop locator (http://refinish.basf.us/where-to-buy/) and found a body shop roughly 20 miles from where I live. I stopped by this shop several months ago and they quoted me a reasonable price. They also use urethane based glasurit paint for their jobs.

    My concern is whether I should be worried dropping my old w124 into a body shop that does not specialize in mercedes repairs(such as body shops that work directly with mercedes dealers/services). Our 124s have these additional chrome trims and plastic panels/claddings that are not often found in most modern cars and I'm worried about the potential damage during the disassembly/reassembly phase of the job, rather than the actual painting itself. There's also the sunroof assembly, which is also a huge job to dis/reassemble on its own. Am I just being paranoid? I've never had to use a body shop before so I really don't know what to expect.

    Any opinions/feedbacks/personal experiences would be appreciated!

    PS. Are the trunk '500E' badges re-usable?

  2. #2
    Senior Member makemann's Avatar
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    Respray at a body shop concern

    Quote Originally Posted by cargen View Post
    Hello all,

    The clearcoat layer on the roof, hood, and trunk of my car has gone cloudy and it needs a respray. To determine where I want to get this done, I used BASF's body shop locator (http://refinish.basf.us/where-to-buy/) and found a body shop roughly 20 miles from where I live. I stopped by this shop several months ago and they quoted me a reasonable price. They also use urethane based glasurit paint for their jobs.

    My concern is whether I should be worried dropping my old w124 into a body shop that does not specialize in mercedes repairs(such as body shops that work directly with mercedes dealers/services). Our 124s have these additional chrome trims and plastic panels/claddings that are not often found in most modern cars and I'm worried about the potential damage during the disassembly/reassembly phase of the job, rather than the actual painting itself. There's also the sunroof assembly, which is also a huge job to dis/reassemble on its own. Am I just being paranoid? I've never had to use a body shop before so I really don't know what to expect.

    Any opinions/feedbacks/personal experiences would be appreciated!

    PS. Are the trunk '500E' badges re-usable?
    I would suggest you go to MotorWerks. My car was tapped in my work parking lot and the F350 SuperDuty broke the front bumper and dinged the grill and the hood, so I took it to MotorWerks to respray the hood and get rid of the 26 years of stone chips.

    If you end up going to the Concours d’Elegance this weekend, you can check out their work on my car. It is phenomenal! I highly recommend them.



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    Last edited by makemann; 07-25-2018 at 06:43 AM.
    Max

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  4. #3
    E500E Guru sheward's Avatar
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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    You don't mention your location but I assume you are near the Detroit area. You are wise to be concerned about the peculiarities of painting an older MB. Some of the items that should come off may be...or are NLA. As Max said, Moterwerks specializes in this area and does excellent work. If you have the time and would like to save significant money you may choose to engage in some or all of the disassembly/reassembly with the help of the forum. I believe all the information is here and no special tools are needed. This provides an added opportunity to clean and inspect things that even the best body shops will likely not touch. Sometimes things seem more difficult than they are. Your mention of the sunroof is a good example. All that needs to happen there is removal and reinstallation of the seal. You may wish to go further for a "concours" level job however removing the whole cassette is not that hard. The labor rates where I had my car sprayed showed $65.per hour for prep and paint. They charge $95. for mechanical including removing/reinstalling trim, seals, etc. Your concern is not misplaced however your reluctance to participate in the process may be. You will be stoked when you see your 036 with fresh paint.

    drew
    Last edited by sheward; 07-24-2018 at 11:16 PM.
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    paint and body is not as manufacturer specific as mechanical and there is nothing special about the sheet metal on a 500E (i.e aluminum, lead loading etc). I think that you'll be fine.
    Last edited by alabbasi; 07-25-2018 at 07:47 AM.

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I removed all of my trim before taking it to the painter, an provided all the new clips for install. Luckily, the paint shop owner has a vintage Euro AMG C126 and understood the workings of the MB systems. I did enlighten them to the fact of the cladding pieces NLA status.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I've owned 4 W124's and they all need paint over their life time. Every paint job I've had done came out perfect. The concern is color matching and finish. The sedans were production models and had a slight orange peel. My 93 300CE and 300CE CV were hand built (like your 500E) and have a much smoother finish. It just takes little more sanding to get the finish right. I would go by the dealer and purchase a full set of fasteners for the trim. At this age they're all going to brake, so to save time, get a set for your shop before they start. Roof trim is easy and just pops off. I would talk to the painter doing the work, to be sure they're a seasoned professional and not a tech school drop-out.

    Mercedes didn't start using Glaserit until 1996, but I would recommend the best, Glaserit 44. If the shop uses BASF Glaserit, then they probably know what they're doing. One thing I do before sending to the paint shop is remove the hardware and emblems. I do trust them to brake something. I remove the windshield washer system, grill, and trunk emblems. This is fairly east to do and is a good time to inspect and replace parts. To remove the trunk emblem (500E), take fishing line and run behind the numbers. It can be replaced with plastic emblem cement. Be sure to measure the position to remount correctly.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Mike
    Memphis, TN

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Quote Originally Posted by makemann View Post
    I would suggest you go to MotorWorks. My car was tapped in my work parking lot and the F350 SuperDuty broke the front bumper and dinged the grill and the hood, so I took it to MotorWorks to respray the hood and get rid of the 26 years of stone chips.

    If you end up going to the Concours d’Elegance this weekend, you can check out their work on my car. It is phenomenal! I highly recommend them.
    Man!! That would really piss me off to see that big ass truck stuck in my grill.
    I would hope that they paid dearly for their lack of judgment. What kind of idiot would do that?
    Is that just a head to head parking space?

    People that drive these monsters need to take an enhanced driving course of some kind.
    There should be a rule that oversized jacked up vehicles should park together and wreck each other.

    Rant Over

    In regards to the paint respray. If you value your car and want it done right either go to an experienced shop like Max has recommended or someone else that you know and trust their judgement OR takeoff as many parts as you can yourself before it goes in for paint. A good paint job is probably 80% prep but you still need an great painter to finish the job.
    Terry

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Terry, I was in a meeting and my friend called me, but I sent it to voicemail. So he texted me this photo. I ran out of the meeting and my buddy actually held the 20-year old woman and kept her from leaving.

    I politely asked her to follow me to the police department, we wrote a report and she admitted it was her fault. She was waiting for her front wheels to hit the concrete curb. Hagerty Insurance paid the full amount of the repair with no hassles.

    I now place cones around my car. Looks douchey, and people laugh, but it works! (Sorry cargen, don’t mean to hijack your thread!)



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    Max

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I also recommend obtaining the clips and fasteners ahead of time, as mentioned. You may also want to purchase all the roof and front windshield surround trim. They are sure to be faded and will not look good against the new paint. I also recommend front window replacement at the same time if there are any defects. Even with the knowledge of what I was working with I broke the clip anchor point on the rear wheel well cladding. I'm skeptical many techs would take the time and have the knowledge to make a lasting repair. In todays repair environment MOST shops are consumed with insurance work which necessitates moving cars in and out quickly.


    Terry/Max; I share your frustration. This woman should not be driving a truck. Everyone should stay a foot or two back from parking curbs. Might as well ask everyone to stop using their phone on the road as well. Forget it.

    drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
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    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Quote Originally Posted by sheward View Post
    ...Might as well ask everyone to stop using their phone on the road as well. Forget it.
    We can dream, right?

    http://cathyherard.com/worst-cell-phone-habits/

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Quote Originally Posted by mmchann View Post
    Mercedes didn't start using Glaserit until 1996
    I'm not sure if this is correct. I was under the impression that on the front plate, if the paint code ends with G, it's Glaserit paint and if with H it's Spies Hecker. I see these abbreviations on cars as old as my W109.

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    Respray at a body shop concern

    Alabbasi is correct.

    MB has used Glasurit paint for decades.

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    G was "Glasurit" which was/is a BASF chemicals brand. H was "Herberts" which was bought by DuPont in the late '90s
    Last edited by Klink; 07-25-2018 at 12:54 PM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Interesting. I'll check both of mine to see what was used for curiosity's sake. Paints have evolved largely since the mid 90s so I would place more importance on the shops knowledge and experience than using a particular paint manufacturer unless originality is the goal. No doubt those are good paints as well as Sikkens and PPG products.

    drew
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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I would have no issue whatsoever using Glasurit or Sikkens paint, or even PPG.

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    A friend who owned a body shop for decades said Sikkens was da bomb, along with Glasurit. I hear PPG is close.

    Anything else, not so much... I personally had a less-than-stellar experience with DuPont, although I don't know the exact DuPont product used.


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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I've sprayed nason with good results. I used PPG Omni and it broke down in the Texas heat after a 3 years. Not sure if it's my prep or the paint. I've shot roberlo clear which is a spanish company and it still looks like glass after 4 years. Although the car does not sit outside.

    For the most part, my paint jobbers would say that the costs depend more on the match ability than quality unless you're comparing super cheap with super expensive.

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I've played a bit with painting through the years- agreed with Glassurit being extremely good with color matching. I always despised Sikkens products. Most of the shops that I knew that used it did shoddy prep and it was "forgiving" but really didn't last. Might have color matched well..
    MB now uses epoxy based faring compounds(better known in the usa as bondo).
    Spies-henkel paint was known to be good.
    I think there are quite a few high-quality 2k clears
    Omni line is inexpensive because it doesn't have much pigment vs clear volume. It has horrible coverage on colors- most extreme is yellow.

    Look hard at the labor envolved in painting/prep. $500 more in materials doesn't matter on a $5-10k paint job?

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    I've done one complete respray on my '72 350SL in Tobacco Brown.. I researched shops with references until I found one that could complete the job to my standards.
    I stripped the body completely myself with chemical stripper and removed all trim before delivering it.. The car is an LA original with no rust or crashes but a few bumps along the way.
    They used the products that they were familiar with - House of Color paint system.
    It came out beautifully. Every bit as good as I expected. The final bill was $12K and that was 8 years ago.

    Bottom line is, I don't think anyone could examine that paint job and tell what products were used. The key was the shop used what they were used to working with.
    Research by viewing previous jobs that they have completed.
    1993 500E Signal Red/Parchment
    1987 300TDT Ivory/Palomino
    1995 E320 Cabrio Black/Parchment
    1969 280SL Silver/Green - 1970 280SL Black/Parchmen
    1987 560SL Signal Red/Palomino

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  36. #20

    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Thank you all for the feedbacks!

    I'm moving to los angeles within the next several weeks, and I do want to get the respray done here in Michigan, where the rate is cheaper in general. Here in Detroit area, shops that specialize in european cars, especially MBs, are few and far between so Motorwerks sounds like a great option.
    Regardless of where I get the respray done, Ill definitely be removing as much as trim as possible myself prior to handing it over to the shop, as many of you recommended.

    Thanks again for your inputs!
    Jay

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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    If not Satish at Motorwerks, you can also go see Sean K at Precision Autohaus on Telegraph in Southfield. He used to paint for Satish the last few years, but he learned the trade from his dad at PA, and used to work for one of my guys. He did some work on the Allroad (black pearl metallic, tough match) that I couldn’t distinguish from factory. Anyway, he’s back with his dad at PA now. So you can go see him as well. A straight perfectionist. As for LA, good luck.

    maw

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  40. #22
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    Re: Respray at a body shop concern

    Concerning the windshield and rear window trim, If it's in good shape I wouldn't replace it. If you purchase replacement trim you'll find it doesn't match your existing trim. You will end up replacing it all and it's quite expensive, and you'll need to pull the glass to replace it. I replaced a rear window and elected to use the existing trim since the the new trim wasn't a good match with the other trim on the car. It was OEM trim but the color was wrong.

    Mike
    Memphis, TN

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