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Thread: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

  1. #61
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Good points, maw. Now that the emotion relating to this car is dying down, more rational thought and observations prevail. Here are my own:

    In all fairness, I do think this was an honest car, and I don't think the price it sold for was too far off -- I think $5-8K of the price was the BaT "chest-beater" premium. The low miles are what sold it. If it would have had 100K miles, it would have gone for much less -- probably in the mid-$20K range on the open market, or for the high-$20 to $30K range at BaT prices.

    The problem with this car was that it was presented poorly -- there were issues with it as were noted, then deleted by the web site (probably at the request of the seller):

    - Basic maintenance items - fluids and so forth
    - Headliner needed a $500 repair
    - Evidence of hurried/sloppy presentation/preparation for sale
    - Lack of maintenance documentation on key needs that these cars have due to simple age and lack of use

    None of these things take away from the actual honesty and value of the car. But once the car blew up with threads on TFTSNBN and here (and probably other sites) and in the BaT comments, it went off the rails. Accusations of trolling and ulterior motives by commenters to depress its price -- and the deletion of some very valid observations and comments -- didn't help things. Nobody out there is on a jihad to keep prices low; I just don't see how that works. People who know and want these cars will pay whatever they want to for them. This car was just not one that the average buyer would buy.

    I honestly think that if the seller had spent a week or so actually preparing the car for sale and getting the minor things taken care of, it would have brought $50K+ on BaT (with their chest-beater premium). There is no doubt that my note of $10-15K of deferred maintenance was/is also correct. I predicted in my now-deleted BaT comments that the car would not get anywhere near $50K (it was stalled for a long time at the $37-41K mark), and I was correct. It had the potential to, but the seller did not want to invest the extra oomph to (with apologies to Capt. Picard) "Make it So!"

    Nobody was decrying the basic solidity and honesty of the car itself, nor impugning the seller personally (though he did get butt-hurt early on, which one should NOT do). The seller realized this part-way through the auction, and self-corrected.

    I have always believed that the C126 is an excellent long-term investment. Particularly honest cars with low mileage, good history, or documented AMG or other provenance. My belief has not wavered. 10-12 years ago, this car would have sold for one-half what it did on BaT.

    The C126 is not a car for everyone; nor is it a car that is ever going to be the next 300SL Gullwing. It may well never achieve even the prices that the E500E has and will achieve. However, history tells me that as a top-of-the-line, two-door, status car of which not many were made by MB, and far fewer have actually survived, it will definitely continue to appreciate at a healthy clip over time. There will be peaks and plateaus, mountains and valleys in the prices (I'm expecting a good one for these cars and for our E500Es once the current bubble pops), but there is no doubt that these cars will appreciate, and in the next 10 years, they will appreciate significantly.

    All in all, it's a data point in the current market. And in my view, it's a positive data point that reinforces that these cars have a following, are desirable and appreciated, and confirms that prices continue to be on the up-swing.

    For my personal situation, it doesn't matter. I drive mine daily, it has nearly 250K miles on it, and it is mechanically very very sound (and now cosmetically quite good too with the repaint). These auctions and prices are NOT relevant to me or my situation in owning the car. I hope to drive mine and intend to keep it until I can't drive any longer, or cannot find the parts to keep it on the road -- value and prices be damned. A very different attitude than most, I realize fully. But it is who, and how, I am. I drive, enjoy, maintain, appreciate, and hopefully pass on to the next owner when I cannot maintain the car.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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  3. #62
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    OK Klink, I made a mistake. SECs ARE built for speed because they are better built.

    They love to cruise at 90mph. . .they just might take a while to get there.
    Trae
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Well, you guys did not disappoint! I can't even read your comments because they have been "not constructive’d" out. :
    Klink, I think it was Dan's post that brought the villagers out with pitchforks and torches. You can read his post on TFTSNBN at the link below, see post #50:
    https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...l#post17501551

    I didn't post on BaT, but I did put in my $0.02 at the above thread, post #78. No response from the peanut gallery. I still think the comment from Jimmyp56 was fishy, although I suppose time will tell if he vanishes from BaT, or continues to post on other 126's since he's apparently in the market for a high-zoot SEC.

    Side note - I noticed some tire comments, but assumed the car had mismatched off-brand tires or something. I didn't look that closely because I didn't care. I don't understand the complaint about new Bridgestones. Odd that Mr. Demon never re-appeared - either he didn't really want the best, or decided this car wasn't?


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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    I never went back to read the comments after my last, as things had devolved into such a sh*tshow that I really didn’t care what was being said. I did get a huge chuckle about how badly the TFTSNBN inmates got their shorts in a twist over the whole thing, however.

    i mentioned over there that I got an anonymous email Sunday night accusing me of colluding (that’s not a crime!) with the seller in an effort to generate sympathy to drive the bidding up. If that’s not totally whack-a-doo I don’t know what is. While the sender made an effort to conceal their identity, as a cyber security geek it took minimal effort on my part to track them down, so I have an idea of who it might be (no one from this group of esteemed pompous nitwits.)

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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    In response to the above, it is a much easier transition to have a C126/W126 and move up the technology and performance food chain so to speak. These two cars are so very different - yet the same in many respects. If I had the 036 first and went to a c126 as a second - I would have most likely sold the c126 myself. It's the nuance, mystique that comes alive on the progression from 80's to 90's that I think fails the other way around. Ricardo may see it as well, but many of the design style on the 2014 E350 cabriolet is vintage c126. Its just like a pair of old jeans when I get into that car (when I have full air in the seats that is) but performance is so different in a good way, even as a V6 -- and a 7 speed tranny.
    This is a very astute observation, and is at the core of why we love MB. Many here have seen / heard me call the 500E “70% of the S55 AMG” — by which I mean 70% as big, 70% as fast, 70% as luxurious. But the converse is also true — beyond that percentage difference, they FEEL the same — like purpose built athletic top of the line Benzes. And of course, it’s the “purpose built athletic” piece of that which primarily attracts me, the top of the line bit is secondary.

    But sitting behind the wheel of each and going from car to car requires me to change nothing — the layout and build quality are consistent, the location, and I even think the cruise control stalk is the exact same, 15 years apart.

    That’s Mercedes Benz for you. I’ve not noticed that consistency in Audi’s or BMWs — their design and ergonomic language is more schizophrenic. I think from ‘07 to ‘13, MB got a little schizo as well, but it’s good to see the return of that consistent interior and exterior design execution.

    maw

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  10. #66
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    (when I have full air in the seats that is)
    Is the extra air in your seat/jeans area from eating too many beans? Or spending too much time on TFTSNBN?


    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    I never went back to read the comments after my last, as things had devolved into such a sh*tshow that I really didn’t care what was being said. I did get a huge chuckle about how badly the TFTSNBN inmates got their shorts in a twist over the whole thing, however.
    It was one hell of an entertaining shit-show, though !! And we got a few new names out of it, including pompous nitwits and know-it-alls banned from/quit TFTSNBN and so forth.

    They did forget to mention the smart folks here who never bothered to join that cess-pool in the first place, thus saving a lot of time and energy wading through crap (but costing themselves some true belly-laughs). I have tried at various points to provide pointers to some of the highlights on the belly-laugh front.

    Interesting how a lowly 560SEC BaT auction blew up into something, across several forums and web sites, that absolutely no one expected.


    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    That’s Mercedes Benz for you. I’ve not noticed that consistency in Audi’s or BMWs — their design and ergonomic language is more schizophrenic. I think from ‘07 to ‘13, MB got a little schizo as well, but it’s good to see the return of that consistent interior and exterior design execution.
    I lack this perspective (due to not owning a post-1995 MB), but it's nice to hear about. I hope to have more to say on it in the next year or so. MB exterior design, post-Sacco, to be honest has not impressed me too much. If I wanted a Lexus look-alike, I'd buy one (oops, have one in the garage). They need to get back to making cars with presence -- a certain design pomposity that is native and inherent to MB and ONLY MB. The 126 captured this quite well.

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  12. #67
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Air as in orthopedic seats....

    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    I love the interior on my C126,the large leather super comfy seats, and overall classic style. It is crazy different than E500 but it’s for a completely different purpose. My wife loves the thing and I suspect will like it more once I fix the rear suspension. Overall, to be honest, there are days when I think about selling, but as soon as I start really working on the car, I slowly start bonding with it. We will see if I end up being a long term owner. I am slowly dialing in the car with how I want it.
    RicardoD
    1990 964 C4 / 1991 964 C2 tip
    1994 E500
    1991 560SEC
    2014 E350 for wife

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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    I think the R230 carried the consistency forward. The W221 / C216 certainly had MB presence (and were excellent vehicles, to be sure), but they weren’t internally consistent with pre- and post- MB SClasses The W222 certainly has them back on the consistency track, but it’s a bold movement away from what was (on the interior), and a return closer to the W220 on the exterior (which came first for me — I fell in love with its classic looks). I like the modern/classic blend. To my son, who basically grew up in the back seat of the S55, he loves how the 500E feels like a modern car. He calls it “a spy car” — it looks old but it feels like a new car inside.

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:32 AM.

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  17. #70
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    Re: Bubble Alert: FS 1991 560 SEC; Black/Gray, 32kmi, BaT (New Hyde Park, NY)

    Ricardo,

    It took me a good 3-4 years to "bond" with my 560SEC after I bought it in 2002. Part of it may have been the Lorinser wheels, which although period-appropriate for the car and attractive, took some time to grow on me.

    I never thought of selling it, but I always enjoyed the E500 (which was my daily driver during this period) more. When I moved to Texas in 2008, I deliberately decided to start driving the SEC as my "daily" and to let off the gas on my E500. Mainly because the E500 had 100K at the time, and the SEC had about 160K at the time. I'm glad I did. The SEC gained equal footing in my eyes, particularly after I re-did the top end of the motor back in 2010. That was a true bonding experience with the car, and I've put 60+K on it since.

    I have compared and contrasted the E500E and C126 a number of times on this site. Bottom line is, that you really can't do this, as they are two totally different and incomparable cars. I've always loved owning BOTH together (the SEC exactly one year longer than the E500). No plans to give up either one.

    Everyone's experience is different though. I've certainly had plenty of MBs that I enjoyed and was semi-passionate about, that I sold for one reason or another. My 1990 560SEL with 75K miles was one of them. Loved the car, took it on a family vacation to Tennesee from Texas even. Great car -- it was in BEAUTIFUL condition. Had it for two-plus years. It was more of a long-term "bucket list" item to own and drive it. Sold it and used the money to help buy the G-wagen, which I still have four-plus years later. It was a good replacement.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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