Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

  1. #1
    Mario albdentist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SanDiego, CA
    Posts
    65

    Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    ...to the tune of $179 !!

    I declined to pay that and described the install as taking literally 5 minutes to accomplish. The service rep was holding his ground saying that MB was saying it takes an hour of tech time. I retorted back saying if I'm going to pay the an hour how about having the tech do something else also ? Like pull codes etc... something to use up 55 minutes... rep said no problem we do that anyways...

    About 15 min later rep called me to pick up the tumbler...i signed a waiver and left.


    iphone 2018 1173.JPG iphone 2018 1172.JPG

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to albdentist For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-13-2018), skikrazey (08-13-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    133

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Flat rate time is not just the time actually doing the repair with the parts and tools in your hand sitting in the car. Flat rate includes finding the key, going to get your car, getting the parts from the parts department, getting the tools out and actually looking up the work instructions, and then repairing the car and then writing the crappy story on the computer and in some cases coding out the labor times. Then when you are done going on a test drive. Then taking the car to the parking lot and putting the keys back where they go. It also pays the service advisor the and everyone else that touches your car from the moment you pull in the drive to when you get back in it.
    On your car to do it properly you have to remove the headlight knob remove the big nut behind that. Take the trim off from that side and around the steering wheel and the trim around the igintion switch. Then replace the part. and Put all that back together. And all those plastic parts are 30years old and probably have been taken apart a dozen times. Hopefully they are not already broken or break when the tech touches them and then etc etc .

  4. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to whipplem104 For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-13-2018), gerryvz (08-13-2018), gsxr (08-13-2018), JC220 (08-13-2018), Klink (08-13-2018), lowman (08-13-2018), Melville (08-14-2018), Ralph (08-13-2018), Rouven036 (08-14-2018), sheward (08-13-2018), skikrazey (08-13-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  5. #3
    Senior Member outrbnks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    336

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    One hour isn't bad, on my 92 , the local stealership said 4 hours, I protested, but they would not budge. The tech kept saying the whole dash had to come out, yada, yada yada...

    I kept saying no. no. no, just a 5 minute thing "according to popular folk lore" , I would have reluctantly accepted a 1 hour compromise, but no compromise was offered.

    So in the end, I walked out as well... it truly was about a 10 minute job with the tool...
    04 E500-359 * 00 SL500-040 * 99 SL500-366 * 94 E420-744 * 92 500E-481/498 * 92 500E-199 * 92 300CE-199

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to outrbnks For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-13-2018), JC220 (08-13-2018), Klink (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  7. #4
    Senior Member tomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Mountain View, CA (Silicon Valley)
    Posts
    101

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Outrbnks, so you did not have to remove any of the dash trim pieces mentioned by whipplem104?

    thx
    Thomas
    94 E500 90K on clock
    (Gone but not forgotten)
    95 E320, 93 E320, 91 300E

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to tomer For This Useful Post:

    TerryA (08-15-2018)

  9. #5
    Mario albdentist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SanDiego, CA
    Posts
    65

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Whippelem104, I appreciate the response from a MB technicians point of view, however I just felt that their fee was a hard pill to swallow considering this is a mandated service, there is no choice here. Parts dept was not going to release the tumbler...

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to albdentist For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-13-2018), JC220 (08-13-2018), Klink (08-14-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  11. #6
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    18,347

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Look at my HOW-TO for the process. It is truly a 10-minute job as done DIY.

    CHEERS,
    Gerry

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    JC220 (08-13-2018), Klink (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  13. #7
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,942

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by whipplem104 View Post
    Flat rate time is not just the time actually doing the repair with the parts and tools in your hand sitting in the car. Flat rate includes finding the key, going to get your car, getting the parts from the parts department, getting the tools out and actually looking up the work instructions, and then repairing the car and then writing the crappy story on the computer and in some cases coding out the labor times. Then when you are done going on a test drive. Then taking the car to the parking lot and putting the keys back where they go. It also pays the service advisor the and everyone else that touches your car from the moment you pull in the drive to when you get back in it.
    On your car to do it properly you have to remove the headlight knob remove the big nut behind that. Take the trim off from that side and around the steering wheel and the trim around the igintion switch. Then replace the part. and Put all that back together. And all those plastic parts are 30years old and probably have been taken apart a dozen times. Hopefully they are not already broken or break when the tech touches them and then etc etc .
    I just had to say thank you for this reply..cause this is really the bottom line..that not all people do take into consideration.
    This is how its done..and this is why it take more than 5-10 ,minutes.Its the time spent from the tech gets the order..picking up the car..doing the work...all the way forward to the time that the order is returned to the guy at the front desk.

    Again..thanx for this reply
    Greetings from me,Ex Mercedes Tech.But still working on cars for a living..and as one of my main hobbies
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lowman For This Useful Post:

    Klink (08-14-2018), Rouven036 (08-14-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  15. #8
    Senior Member outrbnks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    336

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by tomer View Post
    Outrbnks, so you did not have to remove any of the dash trim pieces mentioned by whipplem104?

    thx
    I had looked at a couple you tube videos and then saw a post referencing Gerry's write up.

    I followed Gerry's instructions, that little trim piece came off as well. I don't know if the dealership mechanic actually looked closer at what was needed.

    I had previously had the tumbler replaced on one of our 129's by them, and that was a 4 hour charge which I didn't like, but understood.

    I thought I could convince them this was different, not possible. Could have been the service manager or the mechanic being stubborn, but it forced me to buy one of the tool kits on eBay, worked perfect.
    Last edited by outrbnks; 08-14-2018 at 07:36 AM.
    04 E500-359 * 00 SL500-040 * 99 SL500-366 * 94 E420-744 * 92 500E-481/498 * 92 500E-199 * 92 300CE-199

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to outrbnks For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-13-2018), Klink (08-15-2018)

  17. #9
    E500E Guru Jlaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Northern California, USA
    Posts
    1,055

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    I just had to say thank you for this reply..cause this is really the bottom line..that not all people do take into consideration.
    This is how its done..and this is why it take more than 5-10 ,minutes.Its the time spent from the tech gets the order..picking up the car..doing the work...all the way forward to the time that the order is returned to the guy at the front desk.

    Again..thanx for this reply
    Greetings from me,Ex Mercedes Tech.But still working on cars for a living..and as one of my main hobbies
    To be fair, I must preface this by saying that I am often proven to be completely stupid and dimwitted --- Replacing the ignition tumbler on my car took me about an hour. Maybe a little longer. Maybe 75 minutes. I did indeed have the proper tool. It was my first time doing so. I read all the HOW TOs multiple times in advance.

    Firstly, I carefully took apart the plastic pieces around the steering column --- they are old and brittle

    Secondly, it took me at least 15-20 minutes of fiddling to get the tool sunk all the way in holes, because the key switch has to be rotated JUST so.

    Thirdly, I had a bear of a time getting everything back together, because I didn't realize how everything fit/clicked back together until I did it WRONGLY --- only to have a mini panic attack, take everything apart again, and then doing it RIGHTLY.

    Of course now if I had to do it again, it would probably take me 30 minutes.
    ---
    1993 MB 500E
    1996 Porsche 993 C2

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jlaa For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-13-2018), Hakie (08-14-2018), Melville (08-14-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  19. #10
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Kingwood TX
    Posts
    3,935

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    The tumbler can be a faceplant - no doubt. It either takes 10 minutes or an hour if you forget. Various degrees of wear determine how accurate the stops are in relation to the dots on the steel shroud. I have done 3 of these and 2 were in and out in minutes but one took and hour. That one was broken in two spots and didn't line up properly, read as the entry of the tool stopped because the center of the tumbler was separated from the entry section of the tumbler.

    Just be calm, be in a ventilated area with your doors open and the car parked in a way where it doesn't block the other cars if you have a problem and are "temporarily" immobile.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to nocfn For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-14-2018), Jlaa (08-14-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  21. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    133

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    It is not mandated at the dealership. Just go to another dealership. Look up the Right to Repair act.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to whipplem104 For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-14-2018), gsxr (08-14-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  23. #12
    Mario albdentist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SanDiego, CA
    Posts
    65

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Thank you for the response.
    Parts dept made a big deal since it is a TRP theft related part. Made a huge federal case out of it. Caught me by surprise.

    Anyway, in no way did I did I mean to disrespect technicians !

  24. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to albdentist For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (08-14-2018), Klink (08-14-2018), Rouven036 (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  25. #13
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,094

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    This TRP, “the related part“ protocol is a massive PITA to us. We absolutely effing hate it with the fire of a thousand suns, and we really hate the way it makes you hate us. That being said, it is a MB requirement, and the dealers are literally at risk of losing their franchises over it. People have lost jobs over not following it, and anyone that lost a job for not following it probably will not be hired at any other Benz dealer. Now with THAT being said, there is some slight wiggle room in the interpretation of the requirements. I will try to find out more and clarify, but some dealers interpret it strictly, as in they believe they are not allowed to deliver a theft related part to you unless the vehicle is literally on the premises.

    Some others believe that it is permissible to deliver a TRP to a customer’s location with the vehicle present there. Say for example, a Roadside Assistance technician that has gone through appropriate TRP training and screening can take a key for example, verify that it functions, and hand it over to the customer. Most, and this includes us, believe that it is NOT permissible to deliver a TRP part without seeing the customer, OR his proven legal representative, appropriate photo IDs, proof of ownership, and the vehicle. But seriously, it is a big deal at the dealers, the dealers do hate it, and given the different possible interpretations of the rules the only absolutely safe thing to do is exactly what your dealer tried to do.

    I know it seems ridiculous, and in many cases, it is, but believe me, it wasn’t purely them trying to be difficult. That may have been part of it, but it wasn’t all of it.

    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-15-2018), gsxr (08-15-2018), lowman (08-15-2018), nocfn (08-15-2018), skikrazey (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  27. #14
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,094

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by outrbnks View Post
    One hour isn't bad, on my 92 , the local stealership said 4 hours, I protested, but they would not budge. The tech kept saying the whole dash had to come out, yada, yada yada...

    I kept saying no. no. no, just a 5 minute thing "according to popular folk lore" , I would have reluctantly accepted a 1 hour compromise, but no compromise was offered.

    So in the end, I walked out as well... it truly was about a 10 minute job with the tool...
    Somebody there had no idea what they were talking about, or, they were under the impression that they were going to be surgically removing a seized tumbler or steering lock, etc. Even then, four hours is arguably a little much...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-15-2018), gsxr (08-15-2018), lowman (08-15-2018), skikrazey (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  29. #15
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Middle East / Germany
    Posts
    680

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Some clarification about flat rate times for this particular job (replacement of ignition switch tumbler) :

    46-8010 replacement of ignition switch tumbler 0.3hrs (x local labor rate)

    46-8010 replacement of steering lock 1.5h (x local labor rate/h)
    Includes all required work steps)
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

  30. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Rouven036 For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-15-2018), gsxr (08-15-2018), Klink (08-15-2018), nocfn (08-15-2018), skikrazey (08-15-2018), TerryA (08-15-2018)

  31. #16
    Intl 500E GTG coordinator 195910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,717

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    You guys have it easy, atleast you have the option of multiple dealerships and being able to complain.

    Q8 has only one M-B distributor for the past 60years and they run a "you pay whatever we say" policy, loyal M-B families switched to lexus/BMW because of them. Minimal spare parts inventory, corruption, no marketing or promotions what so ever, no support for enthusiasts (the M-B Club Kuwait)... and if you import a Mercedes from Germany/US/Gulf its the greatest sin. The labour rate is similar to western Europe but without the service level.

    BUT, finally M-B listened to our calls and logical complaints and are pulling the franchise!! We are going to be the first country in the world where the franchise will change, lets just hope the new distributor learns the lesson.

    #not_a_loyal_b***er_customer

  32. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to 195910 For This Useful Post:

    8899 (08-15-2018), albdentist (08-15-2018), gsxr (08-15-2018), Klink (08-15-2018), Rouven036 (08-15-2018), skikrazey (08-15-2018)

  33. #17
    Mario albdentist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SanDiego, CA
    Posts
    65

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Klink, as always, i appreciate the clarification and the behind scenes insight. Corporate attorneys are behind this...

    Thank you

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to albdentist For This Useful Post:

    skikrazey (08-15-2018)

  35. #18
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,094

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by albdentist View Post
    Klink, as always, i appreciate the clarification and the behind scenes insight. Corporate attorneys are behind this...

    Thank you
    Indeed they are. Something BAD happened to somebody important somewhere, I'm quite sure of that.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  36. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    albdentist (08-15-2018), gsxr (08-15-2018), skikrazey (08-15-2018)

  37. #19
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Middle East / Germany
    Posts
    680

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by 195910 View Post
    You guys have it easy, atleast you have the option of multiple dealerships and being able to complain.

    Q8 has only one M-B distributor for the past 60years and they run a "you pay whatever we say" policy, loyal M-B families switched to lexus/BMW because of them. Minimal spare parts inventory, corruption, no marketing or promotions what so ever, no support for enthusiasts (the M-B Club Kuwait)... and if you import a Mercedes from Germany/US/Gulf its the greatest sin. The labour rate is similar to western Europe but without the service level.

    BUT, finally M-B listened to our calls and logical complaints and are pulling the franchise!! We are going to be the first country in the world where the franchise will change, lets just hope the new distributor learns the lesson.

    #not_a_loyal_b***er_customer
    Cool, didn't know that - I thought the reasons are routed differently till now. But it seems you must know the real story!
    Last edited by Rouven036; 08-15-2018 at 03:17 PM.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

  38. #20
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Middle East / Germany
    Posts
    680

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by albdentist View Post
    Thank you for the response.
    Parts dept made a big deal since it is a TRP theft related part. Made a huge federal case out of it. Caught me by surprise.

    Anyway, in no way did I did I mean to disrespect technicians !
    In deed TRP parts are quite specific and tight in the handling of parts etc pp. This is absolutely important for the users safety as well as people who handle those items.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

  39. The Following User Says Thank You to Rouven036 For This Useful Post:

    Klink (08-15-2018)

  40. #21
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,728

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    I've ordered them in person. Current registration, title, car and dl. No issues.

  41. #22
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Middle East / Germany
    Posts
    680

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    One more thing in regards your post Ahmad, I do really hope too that things will be better in the future for the customer and the brand!
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

  42. The Following User Says Thank You to Rouven036 For This Useful Post:

    195910 (08-15-2018)

  43. #23
    Intl 500E GTG coordinator 195910's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,717

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rouven036 View Post
    Cool, didn't know that - I thought the reasons are routed differently till now. But it seems you must know the real story!
    Well Rouven, the complete reasons are a bit more complicated (customer dissatisfaction, issues with completing payment, issues between the two families, etc..), but the result is the same..right?

    I am sure you agree that if Mercedes-Benz owners in Q8 were happy with the distributor, then sales would have been great and Daimler would have been happy from him... and he wouldn't have sent that internal memo to his employees telling them that 31/12 is the last day.

  44. #24
    E500E Guru 8899's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,762

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    Replacing the ignition tumbler on my car took me about an hour. Maybe a little longer. Maybe 75 minutes. I did indeed have the proper tool. It was my first time doing so. I read all the HOW TOs multiple times in advance.
    Yep, me too. Took at least an hour and I also had the proper tool and did the research. Had to make couple phone-assist calls as well...
    Greg
    '94 E500
    '03 E320 4Matic Wagon (W210)
    '08 G55

  45. The Following User Says Thank You to 8899 For This Useful Post:

    Jlaa (08-15-2018)

  46. #25
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Middle East / Germany
    Posts
    680

    Re: Preventative ignition tumbler a mandatory dealer install...

    See this topic is nothing for this place here. Customer satisfaction however has nothing to do with that-this is a fact even so the local word of mouth would love to put this in. That sales is not good is a regional effect due to certain economic situations, regional in-stability etc plus the dealers availability of cars or its limitations due whatever reason. I mean look at other luxury car dealers who lost up to 50% in new car sales! We had similar drops like BMW and Audi but way less than Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley etc..
    Anyways as said it's a market with huge potential and I hope it will be exploited properly.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

  47. The Following User Says Thank You to Rouven036 For This Useful Post:

    Klink (08-15-2018)

Similar Threads

  1. Barrel lock plastic trim (Ignition tumbler bezel)
    By darek_u in forum Interior Topics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-15-2018, 03:33 PM
  2. Bad Ignition Tumbler
    By emerydc8 in forum Electrical, CAN and Wiring
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-15-2014, 04:04 PM
  3. $2k budget for preventative repairs - suggestions?
    By Cadence in forum M119 Engine
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-08-2011, 07:58 PM
  4. Ignition tumbler
    By Glen in forum Interior Topics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-28-2010, 09:07 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •