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Thread: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

  1. #1
    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    hey guys


    with my 500sec as ive mentioned it runs at 100c no matter what....AC on or off, streets or hwy....doesnt matter. ive started to get to work on this project now so i have a few questions. I did check the fan clutch, manually, its stiff and is comparable to MY sel which mostly behaves at 80c

    i did also rig the aux fan to run all the time with alligator cilps and it did nothing in regards to the temp. I am planning on getting a new radiator, i believe it maybe original, its a behr and Ill buy a NIssen. The radiator car seal, looks meh.....im gonna a new one...Question for the rad cap..is genuine the only way to go, or is a Behr or mahle cap OK.

    Lastly, with the thermostat....my car has a new one when it was serviced before my purchase....the thermostat used is 1162000215 which is the 84 degree and im wondering is it because it has the 84 , is why it may also go up in temp

    so question i have is can the 1162000315 which is the 80 c thermostat, can that work in a 85 gen 1 car, because when i put in the parts on the sites it says the 315 will not fit my gen 1 car

    any truth to this

    i did also rig the aux fan to run all the time with alligator cilps and it did nothing in regards to the temp

    thanks
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
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  2. #2
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    Re: Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    100C indicated temperatures is NOT a problem. I don't know why people freak out if the car's running temp isn't 87C or below. Particularly in the summer in high ambient temperatures, and especially so with high humidity, you will get higher indicated temperatures, and that is a fact of life. Anything at 105C or below is absolutely normal running temperature, and nothing to worry about. At 110C or higher (unless you are going up mountains or putting strain on the cooling system) then it is something to watch. But there is absolutely no problem with a 100C running temp.

    My 560SEC has a replaced fan clutch and in 90+F ambient temperatures and high humidity, with the A/C on and at freeway speeds, it runs 95-105C. No issues with that at all. And yes I hear the clutch roaring and it will rapidly and visibly move the temp down from 100-105C down to 87-90C before the temp cycles back up again.

    You can't really "check" a fan clutch just by the resistance with which the fan blades turn, "newspaper test," etc. The only way to know that a fan clutch is working properly is that you hear it engage and disengage by the "roar" test. And you will hear the roar if it happens -- it is unmistakable.

    A fan clutch is relatively cheap -- get a new MB factory unit, or at minimum a Behr aftermarket unit if available, or more preferably a Sachs/Horton aftermarket unit if that is available.

    Either Behr or Nissens will be fine on the radiator, as long as it is the correct unit for the application. If the radiator is old, then simple age and use is putting it on borrowed time, so it's a no-brainer to replace. Again, not a super expensive part. It's a once-in-15-years replacement, so a good idea to do. I actually need to do same on my SEC ... the replacement radiator was installed in 2001, right before I bought the car, and I've put about 100K miles on it.

    The water pump and its efficiency is something else to pay attention to. Often overlooked and an item that can directly affect cooling system temps.

    As far as the thermostat is concerned -- the two thermostats are incompatible and not retro-fittable. It is a physically different fitment in all respects. If you have an early car, then you have to go with the 02-15 model. I would either go with the factory unit, or Mahle (Behr). No FEBI, No Meyle, No Borg Warner, No URO, etc.

    And yes, the expansion tank cap is a critical and even more overlooked part of the cooling system, as it helps maintain proper system pressure. There are only two ways to go for caps: OE MB, or Reutter (who makes them for MB). No other brands -- No Behr, No Meyle. Reutter or MB OE only. Heck, they're cheap. $5-7. Why cheap out on an aftermarket part of inferior quality when you're only saving a buck or two?

    Rigging the aux fan to run all of the time is at best, a Band-Aid for a sub-par cooling system in which something or a combination of things are not operating correctly. It's irritating to have the fans on all the time, and not how the car was designed to be. Generally it works, but it's a crude fix that just covers up the fact that system diagnosis and maintenance is required.

    Start with your fan clutch, radiator and thermostat replacement and I think you'll find there's a good difference. Water pump is also a good idea too.

    Good luck!
    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    What Gerry said. Absolutely perfect advice. The only thing I will add is to make sure that your coolant mixture is neither to “rich“ or to “lean“. Too much anti-freeze prematurely ages your plastic cooling system components and will not transfer heat as efficiently. Too little can lead to excessive corrosion and local hotspots that will also decrease efficiency. I like a mix greater than 35% coolant to water NOT to exceed 50% coolant to water mix.
    Anything within that range and you are good to go.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    And don't worry about the neck of the upper radiator, as both Nissens and Behr use carbon fiber for strength in their composite molding. The copper sleeve was a retrofit manufacture fix back in the day. My Nissns is great, and I replaced WP, Radiator hoses and cap at the same time. Also, with the radiator out, get some rinse less evaporator/condenser clearner NuCalgon comes to mind. Amazon is your friend. Spray the entire can on both sides of that AC unit and let it soak, rinse is not required but I did it as I didn't want to drag out air compressor. Amazing results on 33 year old cooling....
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    100C in summer is not automatically a cause for concern. However in cooler ambients you should see something more like 85-90. If not, you may have an issue and will need to go through Gerry's list to see what the cause might be. Don't forget that the dash gauge may not be 100% accurate on either your SEC or SEL. Wouldn't hurt to check both, it's possible the SEL is showing 80C but is actually running warmer than you think (or, the SEC could be running cooler than indicated).

    Make sure the thermostat currently in the car is OE/OEM, if you are not sure what the previous indy installed, pull it out and check.

    Dave M.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    I just finished reading the same thread in the other forum (you know which one ...). What a difference in answers! I guess one forum is good for politics, the other for correct technical advice. Well, I already have plenty of politics at work.

    Many people overlook the expansion tank pressure cap. Out of curiosity, I once got the engine to 80C and released the cap on the expansion tank. Within seconds the coolant rose ~ 10 degrees. That's how much the release pressure mattered.

    Thanks for the correct info guys. A pleasure to read good technical info in my lunch break.

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    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    everyone thank you so much

    so yeah i will for sure start with the above advice, a Nissen was already on order. Cap ill pick up later this week.

    Ill get a new thermostat, because yes I do not know exactly which brand thermostat the Indy shop used, ( it was Hi line in chicago area....and i know they have a good rep)... this work done to the SEC was all barely a yr and half ago with the previous owner ( long story) but the car doesnt have more than a thousand or so miles on it....when i purchased it is when i had the camshaft knock on my SEL so any work on SEC was halted ( different thread)

    anyone know the rationale with Mercedes as to why they would make a 84 temp and then for latter models an 80 or 71?

    so i know you guys said that in summer heat 100 can be expected which is fine, but this SEC is 100 no matter what...i can drive in cold temp for a mile and it comes quick to 100. That is my main concern as there is to variability.

    I did stop today and grab a IR Temp gun gauge...Near the thermostat it was about 90c, on the radiator hose 86/87, on the valve cover around the same...i know this isnt very scientific at all

    question in regards to fan clutch....i havent heard it roar on this car at all, that i can remember so ill look into that...is there a certain criteria temp wise it is supposed to roar at, ?

    and the 212 switch, how is that playing into this...212 f, 100 c...when aux fan is supposed to go on, if there is freon in system....correct?

    the SEC aux fan has never gone on unless it was rigged with alligator clips and regardless didnt do anything for temp

    thanks....ill order some parts
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
    2017 CHRYSLER PACIFICA

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    As far as I know, the 03-15 thermostat, at least as used with the 560SEC and most all E500Es, is an 87C thermostat. This means that it starts opening up at that temperature, and should be completely open by 100C.

    I do know that MB did have cooler thermostats for countries with hot climates and such. However, for US-market use, the "stock" specified thermostat should be fine in pretty much all climates, unless you live in the Arizona desert or something. I've seen discussion about the "cooler" thermostats in G-wagen related forums, because G-wagens are often used in hot climates and in applications that require a cooler-running thermostat. I'd think that some judicious searching by your car's thermostat part number would find the alternative temperature thermostat part numbers, or perhaps looking in the EPC/WIS. However, as I said, for any US climate, a standard 87C thermostat should work fine. I believe there is also a "cooler" 71C thermostat available for the Gen 2 M117 cars.

    For your car, it appears that the standard thermostat (the 02-15 model) is an 84C model, so it is slightly cooler than the standard thermostats used on the Gen 2 M117 cars.

    If you are not getting any fan clutch roar (my Behr clutch on my SEC whooshes like a small jet taking off when it activates), then I think you need to concentrate on that as the primary issue. The clutch should activate and move the temps downward pretty rapidly after it does activate. You'll see it and hear it.

    Generally, my 560SEC fan clutch activates when the car is traveling at speed, often with indicated coolant temps in the 100-105 range, and when the RPMs of the engine are at 2,500 or higher. If I'm on the freeway, it will cycle on and off when the temp lowers and rises again. Again, this is totally dependent on the ambient temps and also the humidity outside. I learned living in Texas that humidity plays a HUGE part in the overall abilities of the cooling system, and have confirmed this here in Maryland, where it is fairly hot and very humid in the summer months, and not so much the rest of the year.

    The fan clutch, in my experience, doesn't activate when the car is idling (this is when stage two of the electric fan kicks in) -- only when it is moving at speed and the RPMs are 2,500 or higher.

    I do not know the exact spec & operating parameters for your Gen 1 car's electric fan, but the system should work as follows (at least it does on my 560SEC (M117), my E500 (M119) and my G320 (M104)):

    Stage one of electric cooling fan: activates in low speed whenever A/C system is being run in cooling/defrost mode. Once on, this fan does not cycle off unless the A/C system is switched off. This fan will not activate unless A/C system is up to proper pressure and the compressor is firing up.

    Stage two of electric cooling fan: activates whenever coolant temperature hits 107C or higher. This fan does cycle on and off, and you should see your indicated coolant temp decrease at the temp gauge after this fan activates. Generally you can hear this second-stage fan kick on, it's pretty loud. This is the fan that you are activating to run all the time with the alligator clip/CoolHarness/resistor setup that I mentioned above was a Band-Aid.

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    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Thanks gerry

    i went ahead and ordered 2 fan clutchs...figured to get one for the SEL ( today it drove great, 50 miles hwy stayed at 80.....only in idle traffic it slowly crept to 90-95.....though yesterday in the in and out burger line it did goto 100....dont worry i did not eat in the car)

    ended up getting the Behr for 130$, the genuine is too much around 500

    I might pick up a temp sensor too and seeif that makes a difference on the sec
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
    2017 CHRYSLER PACIFICA

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    just came upons pierre's video too



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyt_7rwZ1X0
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
    2017 CHRYSLER PACIFICA

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    ouch just saw the behrs are china made...time to return

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...h-1162001122-1
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
    2017 CHRYSLER PACIFICA

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    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    I am on the back side of year two of the PRC Behr Fan clutch from AutohauzAZ, if that provides you any comfort. Over two summers in Houston I rarely get over 86C.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    just came upons pierre's video too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyt_7rwZ1X0
    Wow, that was almost entirely accurate! I'm impressed. Never heard of this fellow or his shop before.


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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    I am on the back side of year two of the PRC Behr Fan clutch from AutohauzAZ, if that provides you any comfort. Over two summers in Houston I rarely get over 86C.
    OK good to know. Thanks

    I can't seem to find a Sachs or Horton as Gerry mentioned.

    With the radiator cap were those interchangeable with 123,124 and 126 cars... On dealer parts site for what looks like the same product there is quite a difference in price
    1985 MB 500SEL EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1985 MB 500SEC EURO NAUTIC BLUE
    1989 PORSCHE 911 CARRERRA ANNIVERSARY EDT
    2012 MB E63 AMG
    2017 CHRYSLER PACIFICA

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    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    The difference is when the clutch engages. The MB clutch comes on at a higher temp, per Klink according to spec as designed, and the aftermarket is a bit sooner. The long term effects of more fan clutch is obviously the potential to have more water pump velocity at lower temps more often and that logically would wear the pump out faster. In other words, a fan that hypothetically engages at 100C under the same conditions would engage LESS than a fan designed to engage at 90C, thus less "wear" to the water pump. (temps are for illustration only, no idea what the temps are) I wasn't concerned about it as my circulatory system was all replaced by me around 2014.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    A1245000406 is the cap for the m117 for my 1991. when I go on the MBOEMPARTS.com site, it shows:

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Wow, that was almost entirely accurate! I'm impressed. Never heard of this fellow or his shop before.

    Pierre is very knowledgeable and an all-around good guy.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Pierre's videos are quite entertaining.
    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...mer-1235010215

    I saw this part number when I typed in my car here and it pulled up. I'm sure there is plenty overlap of same products but different prices.. Thanks
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    M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Mb has it for
    1/2 the fcp euro price, superseded p/n
    Last edited by nocfn; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:43 PM.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Pierre is a good guy. Knows his stuff. He stops around early 90's...he Loves the early cars. Been a Long time friend.

    Back to topic, VDub, has your block ever been citric acid flushed? I am seeing More and More build up of scale as these cars age. A Good flush or two w/ CA has helped out many a car. I like to catch the first round of flush just to see if there's anything Nifty comin out.

    jono
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    no sir it has not as far as i know...we discussed this car a bit in past text....but if u recall it was my cheapish impulse buy last summer ( same color /yrs as SEL) and then thats when my knocking occured in the SEL and i had to do top end and new old cams etc etc for that car.

    so now that the SEL is purring we move on to project sec, which was a CALI car and went to chicago to a guy that does a lot of R107 business on ebay who said the car got to him and took a dump on him, He then swapped a donor euro m117 to it and had HI LIne in chicago do a rebuild....everything rubber is new, it had coolant flush, new stat, injectors, but no new radiator/clutch

    he sold if off to a guy in houston who decided he didnt want to deal with it and then a month later it shows up on the ebay and i knick it "cheap" ... the things we do

    anyways, ill talk to the mechanic and see if he ever does CA flushes....

    thanks
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    came across this thermostat....the 75c stat by behr..

    was this one made after the fact maybe....not ever a MBZ part but something behr came up with?

    https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/116200021575

    and what is the contraindications to getting this version of it rather than an 84?
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    I suppose in Theory your engine would stay below the 80C mark which Could throw off your mixture some as the car isn't technically full up to operating temp. However, I doubt that it would stay that cold...


    I'd really be inclined to citric acid FLUSH that block etc... just don't do like some guys on another board and leave it in over night tearing everything to pieces from the inside out...Lolz.

    jono
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by jhodg5ck View Post


    I'd really be inclined to citric acid FLUSH that block etc... just don't do like some guys on another board and leave it in over night tearing everything to pieces from the inside out...Lolz.

    jono
    Are you bad-mouthing McClare, Jono?


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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    85 ish Euro version, correct? Got a chassis number? If you don't want to share that for whatever reason, post a pic of the top forward part of your engine showing the coolant pump t-stat housing, etc. and/or post a pic, too...
    Last edited by Klink; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:53 AM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Are you bad-mouthing McClare, Jono?

    Who's that??




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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Wow, that was almost entirely accurate! I'm impressed. Never heard of this fellow or his shop before.

    He is sort of a regional go to guy for high end older model maintenance etc. People send cars to him. Fairly knowledgeable per lwb250.

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by atg View Post
    He is sort of a regional go to guy for high end older model maintenance etc. People send cars to him. Fairly knowledgeable per lwb250.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    You’re talking about McClare being the go-to guy, no? I know that he is the established “guru” of everything on the 126 forum at TFTSNBN.

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Let's not go there right now.... I got love for both sides. Don't want my thread to get into that.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    You’re talking about McClare being the go-to guy, no? I know that he is the established “guru” of everything on the 126 forum at TFTSNBN.
    No, I think he meant Pierre, and although it sort of rhymes with McClare, I think they're on opposite sides of a spectrum.


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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    1994 E500
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    1991 560 SEC
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    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    You’re talking about McClare being the go-to guy, no? I know that he is the established “guru” of everything on the 126 forum at TFTSNBN.
    No I was referencing Hedary from up the thread a bit. Does McClare have videos?

    Btw I never have any idea what forum you guys are talking about when you dont name it. Which I guess is the point. But it could be so many! Is there one in particular "we" are not mentioning?

    Ha.

    K


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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by atg View Post
    No I was referencing Hedary from up the thread a bit. Does McClare have videos?

    Btw I never have any idea what forum you guys are talking about when you dont name it. Which I guess is the point. But it could be so many! Is there one in particular "we" are not mentioning?

    Ha.

    K
    I don't think McLiar does videos, no.

    You asked for it ......

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    0055421017

    Is this the correct part for the gauge temp sensor.maybe its also possible my gauge is reading off
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    85 ish Euro version, correct? Got a chassis number? If you don't want to share that for whatever reason, post a pic of the top forward part of your engine showing the coolant pump t-stat housing, etc. and/or post a pic, too...

    Here is my vin, good luck trying to find info on it....for some reason it doesnt show in Mb data base

    wbd1260441a129918

    also attached are some front of motor pics, that i took a few weeks ago, i can get better pics when i get car back to my garage
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    ouch just saw the behrs are china made...time to return

    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...h-1162001122-1
    on my E320, MB OEM fan clutch is Chinese made Behr. Can't tell the difference between the Behr from Autohausaz versus the one from the dealer except for the hole in my wallet. So, don't assume that MB OEM may not be Chinese made.

    I went with German made Sachs from tool-jack.com

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    I have it by good knowledge that the aftermarket Behr engages at a lower temp than the MB version, and that has benefits obviously, but also may wear the WP as a result. YMMV
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    I have it by good knowledge that the aftermarket Behr engages at a lower temp than the MB version, and that has benefits obviously, but also may wear the WP as a result. YMMV
    I haven't dug into the details, so, curios about the technical details. Why will water pump wear faster with lower cut-in temp?
    I have heard with lower temp thermostat where the water pump has to work harder to circulate coolant through the radiator.

    Thx

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Written about it before, it was explained that the engagement more often will spin the WP at a higher speed, and thus the acceleration of potential wear to the WP. Incremental and nit scientific, ymmv.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Water pump speed is totally dependent on engine speed. Engagement of a fan clutch won’t change the water pump speed. It also is unlikely to significantly impact water pump lifespan one way or another.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    I have it by good knowledge that the aftermarket Behr engages at a lower temp than the MB version, and that has benefits obviously, but also may wear the WP as a result. YMMV

    is this the 84c behr or the 75 c behr i noted
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    is this the 84c behr or the 75 c behr i noted
    My comments were to a question involving a fan clutch, not the T-stat.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    Here is my vin, good luck trying to find info on it....for some reason it doesnt show in Mb data base

    wbd1260441a129918

    also attached are some front of motor pics, that i took a few weeks ago, i can get better pics when i get car back to my garage
    Thanks!
    I'll study and comment the first chance I get.
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    took these today

    this clutch has no markings

    MY sel has Behr on it
    id have to search deep in records if the SEL has had changed in long ago past

    SEC records are scant
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Orig equip had a cage around the clutch, that is a replacement.
    1994 E500
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    yeah figure....its still super stiff as with my SEL....but ive ordered parts discussed as above ....will start with the new coolant cap and radiator to see if there is difference....if nothing then do the stat,

    i may buy both the 84 and 75 behr and see what happens with each...i dont want the car running too low now either
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    M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    What is McClare’s advice on the fan clutch and t-stat situation?

    Cascade should have some Grapevine-honed recommendations borne of experience with deliberately cutting his water pump belts.

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    yeah figure....its still super stiff as with my SEL....but ive ordered parts discussed as above ....will start with the new coolant cap and radiator to see if there is difference....if nothing then do the stat,

    i may buy both the 84 and 75 behr and see what happens with each...i dont want the car running too low now either
    You gonna citric acid flush that system? Being a car of unknown provenance I Really think it would be advisable.

    Those Chinese clutches Do work ..they just don't often disengage properly above 3k amongst other weirdness...q

    Jono

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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    ive been cutting oranges and lemons and shoving them into the coolant tank.... should i keep pulp or not??? LOL



    seriously though i havent had a chance to talk to my mechanic about the flush....
    what does it entail..?


    for gerry, i believe mclare lives in your neck of the woods now and has a CL and i think cascade passed a few yrs back...
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    ive been cutting oranges and lemons and shoving them into the coolant tank.... should i keep pulp or not??? LOL



    seriously though i havent had a chance to talk to my mechanic about the flush....
    what does it entail..?


    for gerry, i believe mclare lives in your neck of the woods now and has a CL and i think cascade passed a few yrs back...
    You'll need a gutted thermostat...a couple of cups worth of food grade granulated citric acid. Drain coolant. Mix couple cups in with gallon of water water. Pour in to cooling system. Fill/burp cooling system. Drive around for 20-30 min with defrost on.


    Drain cooling system at rad and block, flush with plenty of water.
    Fill with preferred ratio of water and zerex g05. A bottle of redline water wetter is our version of a cherry

    Oh, re-install non gutted t stat after draining,


    J

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  74. #51
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Waterwetter is good stuff!
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  76. #52
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    got it....

    as much as i would love to that myself, my level of skill is not there yet, nor my time....thats why we have great shops like yours and my place in southern california tonys german...ill talk to him next week about considering this.

    Jono for the stat, what would u do, the behr 84 or behr 75
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    McLiar lives about an hour south of me in the Pax River area.

    cascade (RIP) did indeed pass a few years back. He left a very rich legacy of stories, crazy antics and MB stupidity behind. I am forever indebted to him for coining my “unhinged troll” descriptor.

    cascade used the word unhinged long before it came into vogue after our current President was elected.

  78. #54
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Ok, it is likely that little of this is news to you by now, but just in case:

    Probably expensive, but if you can't find it anywhere else, 0.5 kg jars of citric acid powder are available from MB as part 000 989 10 25 11. You'll need three of them to make an adequately strong cleaning solution. Dissolve it in hot water before you put it into the engine.

    You have the second version of three possible coolant pump / thermostat configurations for the 116/117.96 motors. There is nothing wrong with any one of them.
    You have a top mounted thermostat that lives between the hot coolant outlet at the intake manifold and the inlet of the pump. The approximate START OF OPENING temperature is 84 deg.C. and the approximate temperature of full opening to the radiator is 100 deg.C. The part number of the t-stat with gasket kit is 116 200 02 15. There is no other "correct" thermostat for your engine, and nor should you want one.

    Note that this thermostat has a small arm with a pointed cleaning probe for the “control bypass” bore. These arms can get misaligned in the upper housing and drag against it. This will cause binding of the t-stat. The usual symptom is that the coolant temp during warm-up can get well above 100 deg.C before suddenly plunging to below normal, then stabilizing after a while. The standard and approved repair for this is to cut the arm with probe off the new thermostat before installation. Yes, this is an approved modification. No, I've never seen any ill effects from it, nor have I ever seen a plugged bypass bore.
    See the photos below. If you can blow air through the bypass bore, it isn’t plugged. You won’t need to drill any holes into the t-stat outer ring. If your bypass bore is plugged, one hole will do fine.

    untitled.png116-200-02-15-_2.jpg
    Last edited by Klink; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:09 PM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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  80. #55
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Oh yes, I forgot to mention. What works even better for getting good flow throughout the cooling system during any flushing process is not simpy a “gutted“ thermostat. What you really want to do is take your old thermostat and rig it in such a way that it is held fully open. For best circulation, it is not only important to have the passage to the radiator open, but you also want to have the bypass plate on the bottom of the thermostat closing the recirculation passage.

    Oh, this bears mentioning, too: People look at me like I have three heads when I say this, but do note that brand new thermostats often run just a little bit hotter than one that has been in use for a while. It’s a completely normal phenomenon. Don’t fret over it if you notice it.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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  82. #56
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    so i just got some parts from az autohaus

    i ordered the 84 and 75 t stats

    heres what they look like

    both behr/mahle made in germany

    both have 84 engraved on underside

    the wings on top are bent differently

    left side pics is 84 and right the 75 apparently

    the behr fan clutch doesnt say behr anywhere except on a sticker put ont he front of the clutch that if u remove causes it to show void...the little orange ring inside does say NSK on it
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    Where is fan clutch made?

    Quote Originally Posted by vdubpower View Post
    so i just got some parts from az autohaus

    i ordered the 84 and 75 t stats

    heres what they look like

    both behr/mahle made in germany

    both have 84 engraved on underside

    the wings on top are bent differently

    left side pics is 84 and right the 75 apparently

    the behr fan clutch doesnt say behr anywhere except on a sticker put ont he front of the clutch that if u remove causes it to show void...the little orange ring inside does say NSK on it

  84. #58
    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    peoples republic
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  85. #59
    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    fins look like the one i have posted up above
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  86. #60
    Senior Member vdubpower's Avatar
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    Re: M117 - Correct thermostat and other cooling questions

    i did the water pot test on both stats...both open up around 88

    wth


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