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Thread: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

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    FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    ADMIN EDIT: This VIN was manufactured around September 1992, and would be equivalent to a 1993 USA model year 500E. It was not built in 1996 and is not an E500.

    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car...ss/1996/558496

    VIN: WDB1240361B845806

    Datacard: https://www.datamb.com/vin/Mm8YVdBBPKkdJaKyD

    Not sure why it needed "Refurb" with such low mileage and I have never seen this color, so I perhaps it is a repaint. Having said that I have seen W124's in Europe in colors we don't get here in the U.S.

    Also not sure why the "condition" says "restoration project" yet at end of description it says "Car is in perfect condition".

    No underbody picture but the pictures of the body & interior seem pretty good.
    Description:
    "From 1991 to 1994, Mercedes-Benz sold a high-performance version of the W124, the Mercedes-Benz 500 E (W124.036). The 500 E was created in close cooperation with Porsche. With its engineering department being fully occupied with the development of the new S-Class, Mercedes-Benz commissioned Porsche in 1989 to redesign the W124 chassis to shoehorn the 5.0L V8 used in the SL into it, along with the necessary changes on the suspension system and drive train. When the car was ready, it was found that its widened fenders didn't fit through the W124 assembly line in Sindelfingen in three places. Hence Porsche was also commissioned to assemble the car. As a side-effect this arrangement provided workload for Porsche's plant, as the company was in crisis at the time, and its factory capacitiy was underutilizedMercedes Benz W124 E500 partly refurbished. Perfect Condition.
    - Fully refurbished interior wood
    - All leather seats are original
    - Fully refurbished all suspension
    - Partly refurbished body paintwork
    - Fully refurbished Original Mercedes Benz wheels
    Car is in perfect condition."
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    Re: FS: 1996 E500 54K miles $34,884 (Latvia)

    The car was built in 1992.

    Bornite is the color.

    https://www.datamb.com/vin/Mm8YVdBBPKkdJaKyD
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

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    Re: FS: 1996 E500 54K miles $34,884 (Latvia)

    so it's a complete fake (1996 etc.)

    (no clue why pics of the car keep on getting substituted with red valve covers....I post pic of car and they are there then 3 mins later I go back to post and red valve cover picture shows up that is not from me or my computer)

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Photos added. As mentioned above, the car has a facelift so it's not original. Regardless, it's one of my absolute favorite color combos. I'd be all over that if I had the $$$ (and, assuming it checked out clean otherwise). Real shame it has ACC though.

    Need photos of the engine compartment and undercarriage.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Hope this drool doesn't short out my keyboard...
    1993 500E Signal Red/Parchment
    1987 300TDT Ivory/Palomino
    1995 E320 Cabrio Black/Parchment
    1969 280SL Silver/Green - 1970 280SL Black/Parchmen
    1987 560SL Signal Red/Palomino

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Communicated the seller. He acknowledges the car is a 1992 and said the reason the ad says 1996 is that this was the cars first date of registration (and said that it was not uncommon for unsold ones to sit around). 4 years unsold seems quite unusual. In any case, he bought it from a guy in Germany and it sounds like it also sat around a lot before he bought it. He said this is why they did a significant refurb of the car (suspension, respray in original color, tires, wheels, including more minor details like interior bulbs etc.). It sounds like he did a pretty thorough job and seems open about it. Says the car is a facelift model - I know some late '93's in Europe came from the factory as facelift cars (i.e. it wasn't just '94), but not sure if/how '92 European cars could coming as a facelift model (??). Minor detail, coincidentally, I know one of sources for that aftermarket grille is Latvia, so that was probably sourced locally. Engine actually looks clean. Normally I would not consider a car from Latvia with unknown history like this, but it's one of those cars that may be worth having a compression & leak down test and then paying someone that knows these to do a really detailed PPI including all major electrical and mechanical stuff. It's a nice looking car. I normally like 3 piece AMG wheels on the E60's better the EVO's (just personal preference), but the EVO's look great here on this 500E and color looks great. If the mileage is real and PPI would go well, maybe not a bad buy. You would just have to do a lot of digging.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Hello Gents, Im considering a 94 car for sale in Ireland at the moment with similar miles so I find the price of the Latvian car a bit steep and especially for a 500E made to look like an E500.

    I have a W124 Cab and a 56 SEC, I was thinking to get a PPI done but its unlikely many of the specialists will have come across any 500's there so lots of the checks they can do visually I believe I could do with a friend.

    But msq mentioned doing a compression test and leak down test on the Latvian car, I didn't know these engines were prone to these problems, the test's mentioned I've heard mainly mentioned in the Porsche 996/997 arena which are engines i'd stay away from unless rebuilt.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Compression issues are extremely rare on the M119 engine. It's nice to check, but IMO it's not a dealbreaker anyway... 5.0L M119 motors are cheap if for some bizarre reason it needed one.

    Welcome to the form, btw!

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Cheers man, I heard this was like the Oracle of all things E500!!

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Oracle of all things E500!....I really like that. Welcome!

    drew
    Drew
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    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Did someone say..... Oracle -- ?


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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bund View Post
    But msq mentioned doing a compression test and leak down test on the Latvian car, I didn't know these engines were prone to these problems, the test's mentioned I've heard mainly mentioned in the Porsche 996/997 arena which are engines i'd stay away from unless rebuilt.
    These cars/engines are definitely not prone to these problems.

    I communicated with the seller of the one above in Latvia and they did a lot of work on the car to get it to look like it does. It was not clear to me how much (if any) engine/motor/mechanical work was done. The car in Latvia sat for a long time (two separate periods it sounds like). When I buy any used car over 10 years old (or even less if I have open questions about any potential engine work) I have a compression test done. It's inexpensive and gives me some peace of mind that there is not a major engine issue to be faced. I agree with gsxr, compression issue would be unusual (not just this engine but most or the '90's 8 cylinder MB engines are bullet proof in this regard - which is one reason they can last for so many miles). For me compression test is a cheap insurance policy, especially on a car with unknown history. I just had one done on a low mileage M119 with known history and service records and the MB dealer (the MB dealer that did it was not the seller of the car) gave me a signed report with all the readings and called them "perfect".

    Good luck with your search. The one in Latvia does look great. I would want to know history of engine and transmission on that (seller does not know it - but that is not to imply that they not original and that they are not in great shape) or have it independently verified if I could not find that out. The "1996" ad vs. "1992" reality made me skeptical. However, I would seriously consider that car if I could have really thorough (i.e. 2 -3 day) inspection done by qualified person (it would be worth the $$ to me).

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Thank you for the info msq. Im having a similar dilemma with this car as there is no history prior to the current owner as came from Japan:

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13368


    As you suggested a compression test is an extra insurance as this car will have to be judged on what you can see and the history of what the current owner has done in the last year. what puts me off about it is that the owner is denying it’s been facelifted. It cannot be a facelift if made in 92.

    are you far from Latvia?
    Last edited by Bund; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bund View Post
    Im having a similar dilemma with this car as there is no history prior to the current owner as came from Japan.

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F113281348471
    Most all Japan cars have zero history. If you're buying to flip, or worried about resale, this may be a problem. However if you're buying a car, not buying a stack of papers, all that matters is the current condition of the vehicle. Just my $0.02. I'd start with getting the VIN on the eBay/Japan car.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bund View Post
    As you suggested a compression test is an extra insurance as this car will have to be judged on what you can see and the history of what the current owner has done in the last year. are you far from Latvia? what puts me off about it is that the owner is denying it’s been facelifted. It cannot be a facelift if made in 92.
    Most likely the current owner is completely clueless. You are correct of course, it did not leave the factory as a facelift car. Sometimes you need to overlook a seller's ignorance. I personally like the facelift appearance, but I'd like a good enough PPI to try and verify the facelift was not performed due to a major accident (unlikely, but hey, you never know).


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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bund View Post
    Thank you for the info msq.

    are you far from Latvia?

    what puts me off about it is that the owner is denying it’s been facelifted. It cannot be a facelift if made in 92.
    As others have said, welcome to the forum.

    No, I am not from Latvia, otherwise I would be glad to check the car out in person for you. Also, I have not bought an MB that was a Japanese import so take this with a grain of salt: I checked out some M119 cars were in the UK via Japan and they looked pretty nice, they were very low mileage. One I was quite serious about buying but did not (longer story). I later discovered old photos from the Japan auction lot and it clearly had been "de-blinged" when they brought it into the UK from Japan (took off after market body stuff etc.) to return it to close to original state. Nothing wrong with that but that is not how it was presented, it was presented as all original. As gsxr says most of the Japanese ones have no history.
    It bothered me that a car that was so expensive originally with under 30K miles had no history/no records. My thinking was "if you bought an E500 or E60 and kept the mileage that low, you're not smart enough to keep the records for resale?". I also began to get suspect of the mileage because I had heard stories about cars from Japan where they messed around with the odometer - I had no experience and no data to back that up, but when I heard that, it spooked me due to how low the mileage was combined with the no records.

    The mileage on the Japanese one in Northern Ire you are looking at would make me less suspicious since it has 86K miles....that's also an easier one to check out than Latvia, I would be very comfortable sending that to MB dealer in Northern Ire and having them spend a day on it to check things that you specify.

    For the owner/seller/flipper of the Latvian car to say it is not a facelift is a joke (remember he was advertising it as 1996, but he admitted to me it was a '92 when confronted with the facts).

    If you think you are serious about the one in Latvia and don't want to fly to check it out (understandable), I would contact an MB dealer there and pay them to:
    a. check for accidents, rust, paint meter readings etc. (you already know it has been resprayed so paint meter will only tell you how uniform a job they did and if they didn't overdo it. A high quality respray would not deter me at all, but an accident would)
    b. do self-leveling suspension test and get readings (MB dealer will have equipment)
    c. check compression
    d. look for originality labels (e.g. I got some help form some here on the forum - more on that later - it was super helpful and for example I was happy to see original label still affixed to differential. I would not have known that.)
    e. check to see if engine serial # match original (I know this sounds obvious)
    f. check wiring harnesses
    (there are a lot of things you can check out on the car)

    I would rather lose $300 - $1000 checking a car out (yea I know 1K is nothing to sneeze at) than being negatively surprised and ending up with bills that are 10x or more that later. Unless you are in the same spot as a handful of others on this forum (who could take one of these cars apart piece by piece and put it back together - they have the tools, knowledge and garage space) it's worth the money. I don't have the garage space or tools like I used to and my knowledge on these cars is far less than many on this forum.

    The owner of that car in Latvia is clearly not fully informed about the car 1. he bought it from some guy in Germany and he doesn't know the history 2. if he knew about these cars you would not tell someone that a '92 with a '94+ hood/grille on the car has not been facelifted.

    I have some undercarriage photo's of the one in Latvia - they actually look pretty good but it clearly has had some work done - again, not necessarily a bad thing. PM me with your e-mail and I will send them, or you can ask the seller, he has them. I would put them up here, however even though I don't know the guy, I don't think when he sent them to me he expected I would blast them all over internet, so I want to be respectful and not violate anyones confidence -- even a car flipper from Latvia ..... he's trying to earn a living.

    This is odd/off the wall question from me to others here who know a lot more about these cars than me: The car in Latvia has one tie rod arm that is either a pentagon (or hexagon) shape and the other tie rod is pure cylindrical in shape. One of the cars I dug deeply into (that has the service records and is the real deal and checked out very well) also had that as the case i.e. one tie rod arm that is a pentagon shape (or hexagon I can't tell exactly) and the other tie rod is pure cylindrical in shape. Is that likely just pure coincidence or did MB replacement tie rods differ from what originally came on the car from the factory?

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by msq View Post
    This is odd/off the wall question from me to others here who know a lot more about these cars than me: The car in Latvia has one tie rod arm that is either a pentagon (or hexagon) shape and the other tie rod is pure cylindrical in shape. One of the cars I dug deeply into (that has the service records and is the real deal and checked out very well) also had that as the case i.e. one tie rod arm that is a pentagon shape (or hexagon I can't tell exactly) and the other tie rod is pure cylindrical in shape. Is that likely just pure coincidence or did MB replacement tie rods differ from what originally came on the car from the factory?
    Hey, I actually know the answer to this one! What you describe is normal... the left & right tie rod assemblies were originally different colors (green vs black), and also shapes (hex vs round)... which is why they have different part numbers, despite being otherwise fully interchangeable.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Hey, I actually know the answer to this one! What you describe is normal... the left & right tie rod assemblies were originally different colors (green vs black), and also shapes (hex vs round)... which is why they have different part numbers, despite being otherwise fully interchangeable.

    Holy cow...I have not met one person who knew the answer to this!

    I am fairly new to this forum (only 3 years) and I am blown away by the level of knowledge on this car forum vs. the others I belong to.

    You can't get this level of knowledge on any other car forum that I know about.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    I appreciate the welcome gents and the advise!

    My wife is Latvian so we do go out once or twice a year, i'd look at it if the starting price was a lot lower but I don't want to waste time as i think that the owner and I are looking at this too differently.

    I like the look of the Irish car but for all the reasons mentioned i'm suspect of low mileage Jap imports, I've seen and driven two here in the uk, one had 95k miles and one had 50k miles, both with no history from Japan, the 50k car was being sold as an original car although I think it was a 92 with a facelift. The car with twice the miles looked the better car!! In hindsight i should of bought that one.

    The Irish car has 86k km so again only about 50k miles. The owner now is on forums and has nothing to hide and has openly said more than happy to have a ppi done, I would need to judge it on the ppi and personally looking at it and not what the odometer shows. Would an official Mercedes garage in Ireland be the best guys to do the PPi, i wonder if they would have ever seen one?

    The other car I like but is out of my budget is Gabs car being the Spanish car on this forum, its done 3 times the mileage but its got the history to back it up. I think my budget is more akin to a riskier no history car from Japan already somewhere in the uk for sale privately as our currency against the euro has also put the price up of european car up by about 20% in the last few years on top of appreciation.

    Unfortunately I have no experience with importing cars although from Europe should be relatively easy.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    They are not the same price but if Gabs car and the Irish car i showed in the link were the same price and both passed PPI's which would you go for?

    Or is one clearly worth more than the other?

    I hope Gabs doesn't mind me asking as they both have their merits in my mind.
    Last edited by Bund; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:31 AM.

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    Re: FS: 1992 500E, Bornite/Black, 54kmi, $35k USD (Latvia)

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Hey, I actually know the answer to this one! What you describe is normal... the left & right tie rod assemblies were originally different colors (green vs black), and also shapes (hex vs round)... which is why they have different part numbers, despite being otherwise fully interchangeable.

    I'm a day late and a dollar short but here is the tie rods and stuff I installed on my car a couple of years ago.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Terry

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