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Thread: wheel hub stripped thread differences

  1. #1
    Senior Member samm's Avatar
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    Lightbulb wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Hi guys,

    I suppose Im posting this just to share my experience that may be of some use.

    Thread on E420 hub were stripped on my previous E420 and now I have stripped the ones on my current E420. LAst time it was rear, this time front. I have owned around 11 or 12 w124s and this has only happened on e420s. The metal seems different, maybe softer?

    Wheel hubs for w124 e320 and e420 e500 are 2 different items and the wheel bearing will not fit. I got a e320 hub thinking its the same, but the bearing race was different size by maybe 1 or 2 mm.

    For the E420 front wheel hub is 129 330 04 25

    This part comes in sl500 and I think Sl300 and the E500 as far as I recall.

    Anyway, an additional point: Tapping or rethreading the wheel hub results in a small amount of metal removal. I tested a standard thread versus the RE-threaded and there was slightly more wobble with the Re-threaded one. So, I may install a new hub (not used) or try to see if it is practical to use seom form of threadlocker (which I am not convinced is the best idea as I'm always fixing something behind the wheels). Keeping a torque wrench in the car all the time is going to be the norm for a while untill I am assured that there is no loosening of the bolts.

  2. #2
    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    I've never encountered stripped threads on any 124 hubs. If the threads are not too seriously damaged, you may be able to clean them up with a tap (carefully!) using cutting oil on the tap, etc. The tiny bit of metal removed should not cause any issues. Also, I use a small bit of anti-seize on all lug bolt threads, usually a 1-time application when I buy a car and R&R the wheels for the first time.

    You are correct btw, the 034/036 (and also cabriolet, and LWB) all borrow the R129 front hubs, which are different/larger than the standard 124 hubs. Larger bearings, etc.


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    Senior Member samm's Avatar
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    So anti seize doesnt contribute to any looseness? Im assuming not seeing as you use it...
    Is it like copper grease that you can put on the brake pads?

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Humm.. I thought they were the same bearings, but guess not.

    I've never had a problem, but perhaps that car in the past had a tire store run on some rims with a 3/4 inch impact wrench designed for semi trucks. The 1 ton dually pickups, it's 350-375 ft-lbs. Yes you can absolutely use a helicoil and install it with red loctite. They stay pretty well. I'd be more incline to do that on the rear instead of the front. Bearing set + seal/grease is ~$35/40 in materials.

    Not a fan of antisieze, but it's effective and a little messy. The big thing for lug loosening if I read the internet correctly is ppl painting the hubs and the paint settles or wheel digs into the paint and you loose pre-load. I clean my hubs, walnut blast or mask and glass bead the back sides. Prime and paint black. The wheel side, I use a datco with a roto-lock scotchbrite pad or sandpaper pad to remove corrosion- blend out any pits in the radius. Then a good coat of S70 grey graphite dry film lube. A remarkable product, but not cheap. Great of gun mechnisms too.
    It's much easier and cleaner than anti-seize. Keeps your wheels from rusting on and make aligning lug bolts easy.

    I've got a spare- I'm sure they are really plentiful. PM me if you absolutely need it. I'm sure Jeff or someone can send you one too.


    Michael
    Last edited by samiam44; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:48 PM.

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    Senior Member samm's Avatar
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Hi Sam,

    have you got used or new hubs for a e420?

    I mean the main reason I'd want new is to make sure they have not been re-tapped. Like I said the bolts are slightly more wobbly when in the hole...

    The graphite stuff, is it like a powdery item? Like the stuff you out in a lock?

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    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Quote Originally Posted by samm View Post
    So anti seize doesnt contribute to any looseness? Im assuming not seeing as you use it...
    Is it like copper grease that you can put on the brake pads?
    It's a silver paste, similar to MB brake grease. I use Permatex 80078 (link). No issues with loosening, and although technically you should reduce tighenting torque a bit when using it, I stick with the 110Nm / 80 lb-ft and have never had an issue. Use it very sparingly and there should be near zero mess. I also use a very thin coat on the back side of brake rotor faces to prevent them from rusting to the hub surface.



    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Humm.. I thought they were the same bearings, but guess not.
    R129 hubs use Timken Set 12 + 17. The standard 124 hubs use Timken Set 2 + 6, I think. Five bucks per set from Rock Auto, 2 required per vehicle (4 sets total).



    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Then a good coat of S70 grey graphite dry film lube. A remarkable product, but not cheap. Great of gun mechnisms too. It's much easier and cleaner than anti-seize.
    I can't find this via Google. What is the brand name? Have a link? Are either of these equivalent?

    https://www.amazon.com/Graphite-Dry-.../dp/B00869WCH6

    https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Graphite-...dp/B007I9XUD0/


    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
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    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
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    Senior Member samm's Avatar
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Thanks for that info on the paste, may start doing that too..

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Thanks dave- I knew the R129 were Timken set 17 and 12... but didn't know the others. I ussually get them next day from Amazon for about ~$20 for both.


    Mines used, and I'm sure it's fine. You can go new.. that's fine too. No, it's a dry film lube which is made to stay put. Not the LPS stuff- I don't like messy.


    Trivia: Timken was the originator of the tapered roller bearing. For self adjustment- like our cars, do you know what clearance they recommend? -0.004 to 0.010 inches. I think peak brg life is around 1-2 thousands.



    Michael

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Trivia: Timken was the originator of the tapered roller bearing. For self adjustment- like our cars, do you know what clearance they recommend? -0.004 to 0.010 inches. I think peak brg life is around 1-2 thousands.
    Those clearances are huuuuge! 0.004 to 0.010 inches translates into 0.100 to 0.250 mm!! Mercedes spec for clearance is 0.010-0.020mm (0.0004 to 0.0008 inch).

    At 0.08mm (<0.004 inch) the front wheels feel very loose / sloppy when you push/pull by hand at top & bottom.


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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    They are going negative 4 though to positive 10. Ideal is just less than zero.
    I think my being on the positive side of thing is measure able and practical for long bearing life.
    Dry film I'm using tiolube 70

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences


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  18. #12
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    the cordless impact is what dameged the threads on my hub.

    I was thinking back to a few weeks ago and I now realised it. I was balancing the wheel on the hub as there was a speacer. so i tried to get the bolt into the thread gently with the impact, must have put in slightly bent. Thing is I do this all the time, must just have been because of the spacers on the front causing the wheel to not sit properly

    anyway at least I get new front wheel bearing out of it...

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    I noticed on my 036 some oddities in the front lug threads. I obtained a spare set from Captruff and trued them out as GSXR suggested, and changed the bearings out with new. When the time comes I have a perfect set sealed in plastic ready for install.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

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  22. #14
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    nocfn did you tap your hub or fix the threads on the bolts?

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    For my case, i used a different lug bolt and ran it all the way thru. So it may have been just jimmied threads. As a precaution I bought a tumbled set from Captruff after the fact, and there was no issue - as there wasn’t a feeling that I wasn’t grabbing. So I may have corrected the perceived problem with new lugs, or by using a different lug and running it all the way in. I did not
    Tap it.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
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    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  24. #16
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Any suggestions for front wheel bearing brands?

    I have seen FAG and SWAG as well as LUK.

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Timken, as mentioned previously... made in USA. Oh, and use the OE MB neon-green grease; 45g in the bearings+hub, 15g max in the dust cap.

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    oh I ordered 2 150 g tubes! Never mind.

    I dont know where to get those timkens. I noticed the orginals were KOYOTO or KOYO or similar, sounds Japanese.

    My options are FAG or SWAG or LUK. Likely getting FAG, German top quality.

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Get Timken. They are at any Napa store.

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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    Timken via amazon. Oe is ntn .

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  32. #21
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    Re: wheel hub stripped thread differences

    the ones that came off my car are KOYO.

    Also the ones on the 420 in the scrap yard were koyo as well. Interesting..

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