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Thread: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

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    Senior Member outrbnks's Avatar
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    E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    I know several of these listings are here already, but I just thought it noteworthy that eBay has 10 active auctions right now for E500E's.

    The first one is going off in 7 hours, then another tomorrow.

    I've never seen so many E500E's for sale at the same time on eBay ever! Has to be a record..!

    The prices range from $9,099 to $78,490....

    If this were the stock market, I'd be wondering what they know that I don't..


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-500E/1...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Merced...53.m1438.l2649

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Merced...53.m1438.l2649

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-500E-5...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Merced...53.m1438.l9372

    Another also sold on BAT today as well , for $15,500..

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ign=2018-12-03

    E500Es for sale on 12.3.18 pic 1 of 3.jpgE500Es for sale on 12.3.18 pic 2 of 3.jpgE500Es for sale on 12.3.18 pic 3 of 3.jpg
    04 E500-359 * 00 SL500-040 * 99 SL500-366 * 94 E420-744 * 92 500E-481/498 * 92 500E-199 * 92 300CE-199

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Do you guys think this is a sign of owners getting nervous and getting out, not just out of 500e's but collector cars in general, or perhaps a sign that we might be getting into a period of tighter money/recession perhaps?

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    It’s a matter of people belatedly trying to cash in on the runup of prices in 2017 and early 2018.

    They’ve completely missed the boat. I love it. I hope the prices go down, down, down.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    It time to dump our babies and start up a new forum eBoard.com for our electric cars. No leaking fluids, timing chain guide breaks, broken ignition tumblers, cam oiler tube nonsense, etc. Dump your car while the market it still hot!
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    I think there are about 50-60 cars for sale across all platforms right now. That's a hefty number. Probably 2X what has been the norm since I initially started watching the market in Spring of 2017.

    There are plenty of examples I'd like to own, but I'm gonna continue in my holding pattern for a while.
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Reminds me alot of the stock market. Always plenty of selling when a stock sets a new high. Takes awhile for all that selling to get absorbed. Once it's absorbed, prices usually move up quickly. All the weak owners have sold.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    1995 E36 wagon

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    I think there are about 50-60 cars for sale across all platforms right now. That's a hefty number. Probably 2X what has been the norm since I initially started watching the market in Spring of 2017.

    There are plenty of examples I'd like to own, but I'm gonna continue in my holding pattern for a while.
    I guess the 50-60 cars you refer to is on the US market? Additionally, here in Yurope is Mobile.de and AutoScout24 the largest platforms, which has 95 cars for sale right now. Even here in Norway it's 6 cars for sale! (plus 4-5 expired ads with no sale)
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by 500AMM View Post
    here in Yurope is Mobile.de and AutoScout24 the largest platforms, which has 95 cars for sale right now.
    It is a lot. Watching mobile for last 10 Years- 50-60 cars was an average...
    You can´t treat a car like a human.
    You must love it. (c) Walter Röhrl.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    The market needed to cool. Prices were getting a bit silly.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymanek View Post
    The market needed to cool. Prices were getting a bit silly.
    Totally agree. It’s good to see. And potentially a buying opportunity.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymanek View Post
    The market needed to cool. Prices were getting a bit silly.
    I like to see our cars priced silly ... look at all the E30 M3 guys who hung on to theirs.
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I like to see our cars priced silly ... look at all the E30 M3 guys who hung on to theirs.
    About 98% of the E30 M3s out there are boy-racer'd out though. Like the 16-valvers. Too bad.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    boy racer'd? is that like FWD ricers with a glass pack and a big whaletail spoiler bolter to the boot lid? classy!
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Boy-Racerism in the BMW world makes that of the 16V world look like amateur hour.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    About 98% of the E30 M3s out there are boy-racer'd out though. Like the 16-valvers. Too bad.

    A 2%er.



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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    On autoleitner.nl one majestic pic.
    Both Evo´s now easily half a million Euro..Who tells me current prices off all other cars on this pic?

    https://www.autoleitner.nl/nl/index/...ate-w204-kopen
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by daantjie View Post
    Do you guys think this is a sign of owners getting nervous and getting out, not just out of 500e's but collector cars in general, or perhaps a sign that we might be getting into a period of tighter money/recession perhaps?
    I think it’s 25/75, the way you listed it. I call it “people exercising their preference for cash”. I think JPM Chase just said today that “cash is king”. When interest rates were at zero, and preTrump, people invested in cars, art and real estate because all were growing in price more than cash. Then came Trump and tax cuts, and people started moving out of those asset classes and into the stock market. Now, people are moving out of everything into cash. But since cash is king, in a liquidity crunch, people are less willing to part with cash for things. Even bonds, where today the yield curve inverted — cash today is worth more than cash in the future. That rarely happens (and perhaps “shouldn’t” happen).

    So I think it’s 25% belated selling, as GVZ says; the rest is people betting cash is a safer place for money going forward than 500E’s. Cash costs you nothing to hold, unlike cars. At bare minimum, cars cost you insurance every month, vs. the 3% interest your cash can now earn, sitting still, risk free and FDIC insured in a bank.

    So if you’d rather have the car over the 3% right now (me), you keep your car, knowing that when this cash rush is over, your car will still be worth more. Plus you get to have fun with it while it appreciates. The only way to enjoy cash is to spend it, in which case it’s gone.

    maw

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    I think it’s 25/75, the way you listed it. I call it “people exercising their preference for cash”. I think JPM Chase just said today that “cash is king”. When interest rates were at zero, and preTrump, people invested in cars, art and real estate because all were growing in price more than cash. Then came Trump and tax cuts, and people started moving out of those asset classes and into the stock market. Now, people are moving out of everything into cash. But since cash is king, in a liquidity crunch, people are less willing to part with cash for things. Even bonds, where today the yield curve inverted — cash today is worth more than cash in the future. That rarely happens (and perhaps “shouldn’t” happen).

    So I think it’s 25% belated selling, as GVZ says; the rest is people betting cash is a safer place for money going forward than 500E’s. Cash costs you nothing to hold, unlike cars. At bare minimum, cars cost you insurance every month, vs. the 3% interest your cash can now earn, sitting still, risk free and FDIC insured in a bank.
    I agree with this sentiment 100000000% As well, I think a related axiom is that once the party really gets started, having debt is gonna suck big time. How the heck are folks / corporations gonna service that debt? Once the trade-war stuff really hits the fan, operating margins are gonna get squeezed into negative territory. (Or, in the personal space, one loses their job.) At the same time, if a debt payment comes due, how is one going to get get the cash to service that debt payment? Float new debt? At a *higher* interest rate?!!??!

    Tough.

    Personally I think (a) cash and (b) real estate where millennials want to live are where its gonna be for a while.

    (a) because who care about that 3% when every other asset class is losing double digits.
    (b) because of demographics - there's a sh*t-tonne more GenY than there is GenX, and they gotta live somewhere.

    Cars are gonna be roadkill for a while.
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlaa View Post
    Personally I think (a) cash and (b) real estate where millennials want to live are where its gonna be for a while.

    (a) because who care about that 3% when every other asset class is losing double digits.
    (b) because of demographics - there's a sh*t-tonne more GenY than there is GenX, and they gotta live somewhere.

    Cars are gonna be roadkill for a while.
    Agreed, but that hot market real estate needs to fall for a while, if you ask me. The items (a) and (b) which you cite are the reasons rental real estate ran so high the past 6 or 7 years. It was a great place to put low interest debt to work in the hopes of building wealth. This created immense demand — “inflation” is another word for it.

    Now the rental rates are too high, the real estate cost is too high, and the debt burden will be too high — the definition of “too high” being higher than wages can keep up. Hence, millennials living with their parents, being very reluctant buyers of homes or anything else that has a 5 digit price tag or higher. That last part is the basic problem of “trickle down economics” that the US has been learning and relearning since Reagan. It doesn’t work, because money doesn’t trickle down. It gets invested (becomes inflationary) and hoarded.

    Either way, car prices will falter when people start expressing their preference for cash.

    maw
    Last edited by maw1124; 5 Days Ago at 12:54 PM.

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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    Agreed, but that hot market real estate needs to fall for a while, if you ask me. The items (a) and (b) which you cite are the reasons rental real estate ran so high the past 6 or 7 years. It was a great place to put low interest debt to work in the hopes of building wealth. This created immense demand — “inflation” is another word for it.

    Now the rental rates are too high, the real estate cost is too high, and the debt burden will be too high — the definition of “too high” being higher than wages can keep up. That last part is the basic problem of “trickle down economics” that the US has been learning and relearning since Reagan. It doesn’t work, because money doesn’t trickle down. It gets invested (becomes inflationary) and hoarded.

    Either way, car prices will falter when people start expressing their preference for cash.

    maw
    Very much, we are on the same wavelength. This is getting a little off topic so I am happy to have this taken to a diff forum --- my view on RE though perhaps has some nuance to it:

    a) Flight to Quality - this phrase describes migration patterns as well. Folks will continue to move to urban areas where the jobs are. This has been happening for decades and will continue to happen. Folks will move to urban centers where the highest paying jobs are. Bifurcation of the RE market in the USA to those where the jobs are, and those were the jobs are not....

    b) Housing prices do not need to scale linearly with wages - The basics, like a commuter car, groceries, insurance, a computer, etc... the detritus of life costs basically the same whether you are in Kansas City or you are in San Francisco. (OK, maybe 10% more in SF, but not much in the grand scheme of things.) Once you make enough income to cover those basics, everything else is gravy. You are free to apply that income to more luxurious living -- Icelandic Sykr vs. regular Greek Yogurt vs. (shudder) Danon, etc. Or you can apply all that extra gravy towards housing if you so wish. Here in SF with everyone walking around with mountains of Saudi-driven-Softbank RSUs in their pocket, people have a lot of gravy.

    c) Geopolitical uncertainty - Brexit, Xi Jin Ping prez for life, China's "social credit score", Yellow Vests in France, Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats losing big time --- the world is becoming less stable. The USA is still the least-bad option for physical safety, which means the USA will continue to attract foreign capital and foreigners to purchase their "insurance" house.

    There was a bit too much froth in the overall-USA housing market and it needs to cool. A rising tide lifted all boats. After the RE market cools, though, the strong-areas will continue to grow in value, and the weak areas will get weaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1124 View Post
    That last part is the basic problem of “trickle down economics” that the US has been learning and relearning since Reagan. It doesn’t work, because money doesn’t trickle down. It gets invested (becomes inflationary) and hoarded.
    Totally agree. Rich people with tons of gravy don't spend all of that gravy and pump the $ into the economy. They invest it or at least keep it in some form where it can earn, but that it can also be liquidated if the need for cash arises. What do you think the solution for this is? (honestly asking --- not sure if the answer will be unpopular around these parts).
    Last edited by Jlaa; 5 Days Ago at 10:43 AM.
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    Re: E500Es FS on eBay 10 at the same time 12/3/18

    I support unrecompensated MB service for all.


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