Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 421 to 480 of 512

Thread: Engine oil recommendations

  1. #421
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Just a heads-up on the latest diesel oils... the new CK rating may also mean further reduced ZDDP levels, to allow compatibility with the newer diesels that have soot particulate filters. CJ ratings were better (generally more ZDDP than CK), and from memory you have to go back to CI or CF to get the really good stuff.

    Reduced ZDDP oil should not be a serious issue for the M119, but you would never want to use a low-ZDDP oil on the M117!

    Be careful out there. Not all "diesel" oil is the same, and the newest stuff may not be good for old motors.


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (03-28-2018)

  3. #422
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Correct. The reduced ZDDP levels in DELO 400 LE and Rotella-T 15W-40 diesel oils should not pose a problem for the M119 and M104 engines, but SHOULD NOT EVER be used in M103 and M117 and earlier engines with higher-friction, cam-follower valvetrain designs.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (03-28-2018)

  5. #423
    Senior Member LWB250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    237

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I was paying $25 a jug for 2.5 gallons of DELO 15W-40 at Mall-Wart when I lived in Texas.

    Tractor Supply was selling 5-gallon pails for around $65-70, so the Mall-Wart stuff was much better priced for 2 jugs of the same oil.

    HOWEVER, the 5-gallon buckets were EXCELLENT for storing used oil, and I kept two of them on hand for storage capacity of 10 gallons. And then I'd recycle it at my buddy's indy shop in Spring, TX.

    Still need to find a worthy place to recycle here in MD. I'll probably just go with my friendly indy shop, Silver Star Service Center in Edgewater, MD.

    Tractor Supply (stores in New Port Richey and Hudson, FL):
    DELO link
    Rotella link


    Mall-Wart:

    DELO 2.5 gallon jug link
    i believe the Delo is around $26 for a 2.5 gallon jug at my local Dead Sam’s based on one my oldest son just bought a week or so ago for his E300D.

    No TS’ around here, I’m not rural enough. NPR and Hudson are over an hour away from me, and that’s a good thing.

    Our local FLAPS take waste oil here. One of them has a 500 gallon waste oil tank, so they’re always able to take it in.

    I have two old Topsiders without the pumps that are great for storing waste fluids. My vacuum extractor holds 8 quarts as well, so between the three I have about 7 gallons of storage available when necessary.

    Dan

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to LWB250 For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (03-28-2018)

  7. #424
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    I've got a TS up the road about 15 miles in Glen Burnie, and it's close to my route to and from the Oracle Corp. office in Baltimore/Columbia, MD. I need to stop to get a 5-gal pail of DELO, as I threw away my two blue pails (empty) when I made the move from Texas.

  8. #425
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    141

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    So just to clarify, I thought that the old version, Delo 400 LE is the one with the good/high ZDDP levels and the new Delo 400 SDE is the one re-formulated with reduced levels of ZDDP?

    I went to 6 stores today after work, every store/shop have the "updated" 400 SDE, but then... Very odd location Autozone had 5 jugs of this:



    And these 5 followed me home =) These were on sale too, $14.99 per gal/jug


    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    ... If you want to see the results of long-term DELO use on the inside of an engine, check out my M104 Top-End Rebuild thread.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    Oh I have, super tidy! Always a pleasure seeing a well taken care of engine!

    Regards,
    D

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Duh_Vinci For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (03-28-2018)

  10. #426
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Yup, looks like the old 400 LE (CJ rated) is still good stuff. 1300ppm zinc, 1200ppm phosphorus, both are healthy levels. The TBN is ok at 9.3, but that's more of a concern for extended drain intervals.
    https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/...&docFormat=PDF


    I was right, btw... the new 400 SDE (CK rated) has very low ZDDP levels: 800 zinc, 760 phosphorus, well below my personal comfort level. This is emissions-friendly stuff, not engine-friendly:
    https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/...&docFormat=PDF

    "Delo 400 SDE SAE 15W-40 with ISOSYN Advanced Technology is an API CK-4 heavy duty engine oil specifically formulated for 2017 greenhouse gas (GHG 17) compliant diesel engines designed to meet lower CO2 emissions and improved fuel economy, in addition to EPA 2010 compliant low emission diesel engines with Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR), Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) systems."

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (03-28-2018)

  12. #427
    Senior Member Duh_Vinci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    141

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Great, so I got the good ole stuff, old stock Store manager said they are getting more next week, and will honor the price of this week, so I will stop by and get more. This stock of 400 LE will be depleted, and on to something else I guess...

    I can't find the detail sheets with the same detail of zinc and phosphorus on Rotella T4 15W-40 or Delvac 1300 15W-40 oils...?

    Regards,
    D

  13. #428
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Duh_Vinci View Post
    I can't find the detail sheets with the same detail of zinc and phosphorus on Rotella T4 15W-40 or Delvac 1300 15W-40 oils...?
    Not all mfr's are willing to publish those specs, so it may be difficult or impossible to find. Sometimes, you'll find a helpful person has gotten a VOA on a sample and posted the results (usually on the BITOG forum) but even then, you need to know the exact rating on the label, and when the oil was bottled/purchased.

    The rating will tell you a lot, I believe any CK-rated oil will have low ZDDP levels. Chevron was nice and (apparently) changed the name from Delo LE to Delo SDE. Mobil has not done this in the past, their Mobil-1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 oil was a Group IV/V base stock in the CI-4 rating, but changed to Group III in the CJ-4 rating with the same name. Looks like TDT is still CJ-4, and I don't know if they will release an updated CK-rated version, or if they expect people to use something like Delvac-1 ESP for their newfangled diesels.


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (03-28-2018)

  15. #429
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Not all mfr's are willing to publish those specs, so it may be difficult or impossible to find. Sometimes, you'll find a helpful person has gotten a VOA on a sample and posted the results (usually on the BITOG forum) but even then, you need to know the exact rating on the label, and when the oil was bottled/purchased.

    The rating will tell you a lot, I believe any CK-rated oil will have low ZDDP levels. Chevron was nice and (apparently) changed the name from Delo LE to Delo SDE. Mobil has not done this in the past, their Mobil-1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 oil was a Group IV/V base stock in the CI-4 rating, but changed to Group III in the CJ-4 rating with the same name. Looks like TDT is still CJ-4, and I don't know if they will release an updated CK-rated version, or if they expect people to use something like Delvac-1 ESP for their newfangled diesels.

    I’m going to create a new sub-forum here on the 500Eboard called “GITOG” — GSXR Is the Oil Guy.

    All oil related threads will be consolidated there.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    a777fan (03-29-2018), Duh_Vinci (03-28-2018)

  17. #430
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Kingwood TX
    Posts
    3,697

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    All auto parts stores take
    Your recycled fluids and dispose them for free.
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
    199/268
    2014 E350 Cab 799/264

  18. #431
    Zivil Ingenieur Maui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Oreygone
    Posts
    3,401

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    All auto parts stores take
    Your recycled fluids and dispose them for free.
    I put mine out at the curb with the recycling.

    1992 500E
    1994 E500
    2011 E550 4Matic

  19. #432
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    I put mine out at the curb with the recycling.
    Quote Originally Posted by nocfn View Post
    All auto parts stores take
    Your recycled fluids and dispose them for free.
    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    Our local FLAPS take waste oil here. One of them has a 500 gallon waste oil tank, so they’re always able to take it in.
    Yeah, I'm aware of the fact that McFLAPS stores will often take used oil. I've done that in the past (when I lived in Portland, before they took oil curbside) and they made me sit around and fill out a form on a clipboard, yadda-cubed. PITA.

    Never was comfortable recycling oil curbside, though in Portland they would take it (not in Texas or Maryland though). I always had visions of some kid coming by and kicking my curbside milk jug containers over. So, I always just brought my oil to my buddy indy shops. My buddy's shop in Texas, he had the oil recycle container on the pallet right out behind the shop, and I had permission to drop by anytime to empty my 5-gallon containers (and antifreeze in the other recycle container). At least there I knew it was properly disposed of, and going to a good cause. I'll do the same here locally in MD.

    As in Texas, they do have county recycling centers here in Maryland where you can also recycle motor oil and other chemicals.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    nocfn (03-29-2018)

  21. #433
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Recycling engine oil (or ATF, or gear oil) is usually not too difficult. Tip: If you buy gallon jugs (or larger) of engine oil, those containers work much better than plastic milk jugs for storage. And it's easier to re-fill compared to using 8 cute little quart bottles.

    However I've never found any McParts/FLAPS that will accept used antifreeze or brake fluid. Where I live, the neighboring county offers free hazmat collection at various locations every week. They accept almost any hazardous fluids, batteries, and some electronics. About once a year I bring many gallons of used coolant / oil / brake fluid. One of the last times, the collection guy looked at the 20+ gallons in the trunk and asked "Uh - is this all from personal use?". D'oh.


  22. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    JC220 (05-19-2018)

  23. #434
    Senior Member LWB250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    237

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    In a former business I was a principal in, we heated our rather large shop with waste oil. As we were in the standby power business, we had a constant flow of waste oil available to us for free. As an oil change on a moderately sized standby generator set could easily be 50-100 gallons you can imagine the volume of oil we had coming in.

    One of the reasons we went this direction was the eventual fall off of vendors willing to purchase waste oil. In the 80s and 90s we had companies that would come and pick up our waste oil and pay us for it. Granted, it wasn’t much, but it kept the shop fridge stocked with beer, which was a nice way to use it.

    In the late 90s, vendors started just coming and hauling the waste oil for free - no payout for it. That was still a good thing as it shifted the liability of handling and disposing of it to another company. Eventually, it got the point where they were going to require payment to dispose of it, so we went looking for alternatives.

    We ended up buying a large oil fired furnace that was designed to burn waste oil. With the oil we collected we easily got through the heating season running on waste oil, and it alleviated us from having to do a “cradle to grave” accounting on it for the State, who now considers it a hazardous material.

    Dan

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LWB250 For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (03-29-2018), gsxr (03-29-2018)

  25. #435
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Binghamton,NY
    Age
    31
    Posts
    42

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Is that myth or true.. some say when you have high mileage engine.. you can use Oil with more viscosity.. for example..
    Your manufacturing specs says 0w-40 but after 100k miles you can use 10w40 ! It helps to protect better bearings, camshaft since the more engine get older the more bearings will have "gaps".. Any thgouts?
    Think on your sins...

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Odessit86 For This Useful Post:

    LWB250 (03-29-2018)

  27. #436
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessit86 View Post
    Is that myth or true.. some say when you have high mileage engine.. you can use Oil with more viscosity.. for example..
    Your manufacturing specs says 0w-40 but after 100k miles you can use 10w40 ! It helps to protect better bearings, camshaft since the more engine get older the more bearings will have "gaps".. Any thgouts?
    As a VERY ROUGH guide... yes. The theory being that clearances are larger in a high-mile, worn engine and slightly thicker oil may help a bit.

    Again, as mentioned above for the M113, the 10W-40 viscosity is officially approved and there is no problem using it. I'd be more concerned about moving up to 20W-50 or something else drastically thicker.


  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    LWB250 (03-29-2018), Odessit86 (03-29-2018)

  29. #437
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Binghamton,NY
    Age
    31
    Posts
    42

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Dave.. you mention that you are using Red line.. do you have any gasket or seals that seeping oil.... some say that synthetic oil can cause leaks...
    Think on your sins...

  30. #438
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessit86 View Post
    Dave.. you mention that you are using Red line.. do you have any gasket or seals that seeping oil.... some say that synthetic oil can cause leaks...
    This is the great unknown. Oils don't cause leaks, failing seals cause leaks... but some synthetics may sneak past marginal seals. Depending on the particular oil AND the type of seal, the synthetic may either shrink or swell the seal in question. The proper fix is to replace the leaking seal. Synthetic DOES NOT cause leaks with new / good seals.

    Out in the real world, the only seal I've had issues with on almost every M119 (and OM60x, and M10x) engine is the front crankshaft seal. It's not that difficult to replace, so I end up installing a new one at some point. I've almost never had issues with the rear main. I am not familiar with the M112/M113 so I don't know which ones to keep an eye on. The W210 with FSS should use synthetics anyway.


  31. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Odessit86 (04-05-2018)

  32. #439
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    This is the great unknown. Oils don't cause leaks, failing seals cause leaks... but some synthetics may sneak past marginal seals. Depending on the particular oil AND the type of seal, the synthetic may either shrink or swell the seal in question. The proper fix is to replace the leaking seal. Synthetic DOES NOT cause leaks with new / good seals.

    Out in the real world, the only seal I've had issues with on almost every M119 (and OM60x, and M10x) engine is the front crankshaft seal. It's not that difficult to replace, so I end up installing a new one at some point. I've almost never had issues with the rear main. I am not familiar with the M112/M113 so I don't know which ones to keep an eye on. The W210 with FSS should use synthetics anyway.

    I think the issue is really more that when an engine is run on dino oil, particularly thicker (say 15W-40 and heavier), and then it is changed over after high miles (say 100K+) to thinner full-synthetic, the swollen seals that are used to the dino often shrink or allow the synthetic oil past them. This has given synthetic a bad rap for causing leaks, when it's perhaps not truly the case.

    I wouldn't call a seal "marginal" if it's still working just fine with dino oil. It's just "used" to contact with dino oil, and the different chemical+viscosity properties of a full-synthetic oil may cause a higher mileage seal to weep or leak after the change. Doesn't mean the seal is marginal or requiring replacement. I've had/seen situations where changing BACK to dino FROM synthetic cured leaks that started happening with a conversion over to the full synthetic.

    My philosophy is that unless a car has relatively low miles, it should be kept on what it has been run with (for most older cars, that means dino). I did convert my E500 over to full synthetic when I got it at 67K miles and it's never leaked or wept a drop due to seal seepage (front crank seal is now worn, but that's an age/mileage issue, not an oil issue).



    Cheers,
    Gerry

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    Odessit86 (04-05-2018)

  34. #440
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    I run synthetic in all my engines, regardless of miles. I have no idea what the PO was using in my one car purchased with >190kmi on the clock, but after filling with Red Line the only leak I had was the front crank seal, which took a few hours to replace. Otherwise, zero issues. My 1987 300D has 330kmi and I've fed it synthetic since I bought it 21 years ago with 185k... new front main seal, original rear main, still no leaks, and minimal oil consumption too.

    I prefer to use top-shelf synthetic oil in my M119's, and if that means I have to replace a seal that starts leaking, so be it.


  35. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Odessit86 (04-05-2018)

  36. #441
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Omaha, Ne
    Posts
    396

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    What can I buy now for my '87 300TDT???

    I'm so confused...
    1993 500E Signal Red/Parchment
    1987 300TDT Ivory/Palomino
    1995 E320 Cabrio Black/Parchment
    1969 280SL Silver/Green - 1970 280SL Black/Parchmen
    1987 560SL Signal Red/Palomino

  37. #442
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman View Post
    What can I buy now for my '87 300TDT???
    Red Line 10W-40 will work in that OM603 engine, it's CF rated. Nice wagon, btw! My '87 is a sedan.


  38. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Bogeyman (04-05-2018)

  39. #443
    E500E Guru RicardoD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    669

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Based upon this thread I have been using Redline 10W40 in extended 10k mile change interval. I recently had engine out service done on my car to replace timing chain guide rails and just completed 5k miles after that service. Car is now at 169.5k miles. I remember my mechanic thought I was completely nuts going to 10k between oil changes. He asked I go to 5k. So I just changed my oil at 5k after this service but wanted to get my own oil analysis done so I could get myself comfortable again with a 10k interval. I send a sample of oil back to Blackstone labs and attached is the result.

    I added the addition TBN analysis and it came back at 3.5 I am trying to understand this number better. Blackstone characterizes this TBN as "strong" but still advised an oil change anyone probably because of the absence of any other real into on the car. I will extend my next interval to 7500 miles and repeat analysis then.

    Nice you can get Redline 5W40 in gallon containers now via Amazon. Before I would buy a 12qt case.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    RicardoD
    1990 964 C4 / 1991 964 C2 tip
    1994 E500
    1991 560SEC
    2014 E350 for wife

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RicardoD For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-02-2018), Stevester 500E (05-01-2018)

  41. #444
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    I’ve always gone 5K on my RedLine, and 2-3K on DELO 400 15W-40 (M104s) and Brad Penn 20W-50 (M117).

    My TBNs always come back with plenty of overhead left, but the Dino oils’ TBNs drop pretty dramatically past the 3K mile mark, and in the case or two where I’ve run Dino to the 5K mark, are significantly lower.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

  42. #445
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoD View Post
    Based upon this thread I have been using Redline 10W40 in extended 10k mile change interval. I recently had engine out service done on my car to replace timing chain guide rails and just completed 5k miles after that service. Car is now at 169.5k miles. I remember my mechanic thought I was completely nuts going to 10k between oil changes.
    Ricardo, if you drive enough miles annually, 10k is fine. However, it's probably best not to go more than 18-24 months between changes. Most oil companies recommend 1 year max but I personally think that's conservative, assuming the car does not get any severe service, and is always driven long enough to get the oil up to operating temp each time (10+ miles at ~50mph). I generally try to change by 2 years or so (excluding vehicles in storage).

    Your iron levels are a tick on high side, but you'll need more samples to monitor that. The iron level is still low enough that I wouldn't worry about it. And, it may be related to the major work done recently. The silicon level is probably NOT due to dirt or poor air filtration. Some oil additive packages use silicon as an anti-foaming agent and I believe Red Line does this, which is probably why the silicon is above the 'universal averages' number. My Red Line UOA's show similar levels of silicon.


    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoD View Post
    I added the addition TBN analysis and it came back at 3.5 I am trying to understand this number better. Blackstone characterizes this TBN as "strong" but still advised an oil change anyone probably because of the absence of any other real into on the car. I will extend my next interval to 7500 miles and repeat analysis then.
    Every oil has a different starting TBN, usually between 8 and 12. I think the Red Line 10W-40 is 8 or 9 to start with. At 3.5 there is plenty of additive package left, and yes you could go to 7500 miles at the next change, and very likely have no issues at 10k either. Note that if you add any oil, this will boost the TBN. So, if you add a quart along the way to a 10k interval, it will increase TBN and give you some additional safety margin. As a reference point, I've run Red Line 10W-40 in my wife's E420 daily driver at 10kmi intervals, and the lowest observed TBN was 1.2 with zero oil added during the 10kmi over 24 months. As noted on the Blackstone sheet, it's best to keep TBN above 1.0 so adjust the change interval as needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoD View Post
    Nice you can get Redline 5W40 in gallon containers now via Amazon. Before I would buy a 12qt case.
    Gallon jugs are the only way to go! They are available at Summit Racing as well, currently $48/gallon, with free shipping over $99. I keep a quart bottle or two around in case I need to top off, but I only have one or two engines that consume enough oil to require adding between changes. All my M119's get 2 gallons at oil change time, which puts the level right at 50% on the dipstick, exactly where I want it.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/red-11405
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/red-11404


  43. #446
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,663

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    I switched to the redline 10w40 a few years ago. Engine likes it better than M1 which the PO used. Redline's description says it's a high ZDDP ideal for classic v8 engines.

    Other really good option in the past was Motul 229.5 spec, 5W40.

    Michael

  44. #447
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    ADMIN EDIT: Copied this excellent Klink post from a different thread (here).

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I'd recommend Red Line 10W-40, but if you want something available at Wal-Mart, use Mobil-1 10W-40 or 15W-50. Remember to change the filter first, before draining the sump. Pour in 8 quarts (2 gallons) and the level should be perfect, right in the middle between MIN and MAX. You do not want the level at MAX.

    If you don't know when the ATF was last changed, I'd look into that as well. Search the forum for a ste-by-step How-To procedure on the ATF change.

    Just for what it’s worth, Mobil 1 did recently lower the zinc/phosphorus contents of the “high mileage 10–40” oil, so my recommendation of that now comes with some reservation. It used to be the exact Z/P rating of the MB recommended Mobil1 0W-40, and 5W-50. As far as “available at Walmart for dirt cheap” synthetic oils go, Wallmart has a bunch of them that meet MB spec 229.3 and/or 229.5. Just read the fine print on the back of the containers. Oils that carry the specifications are also frequently noted with some keywords like “European formula”, “rally formula” I’m happy with any oil that meets either of those criteria for the M119. Also, even though it does not spell out the compliance with either of those specifications, I could also run the 15W-50 with confidence.

    Heaven help me, I don’t want to start an oil thread, but I don’t have any idea what you guys have against the 0W–40 229.3/.5 oils, though. If it’s good enough for MB and Porsche on the autobahn in summer, it’s good enough for anything conceivable that you could do with your car here, probably even including the track.

    Oh, and on the MB spec thing, don’t be fooled. The specifications that are spelled out like this “229.3” are primarily gasoline engine oils. When you see extra digits like 229.31, .32, etc., those are low zinc/phosphorus primarily diesel specific oils intended to protect particulate filters, etc. If you want to stick with Mercedes synthetic oil recommendations for the 119, you are looking for MB spec 229.3 or 229.5, either singularly, or together is fine.

    Last edited by Klink; 05-16-2018 at 06:38 PM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  45. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (05-16-2018), gsxr (05-16-2018), maw1124 (05-16-2018)

  46. #448
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    Klink, thanks for the tip! I didn't realize M-1 had reduced the ZDDP levels in the 10W-40 formula, by 200ppm each, sometime in the past 2 years. Current Mobil spec sheet (Feb-2018) PDF attached plus screen shots. Older spec sheets available here. The M-1 15W-50 still retains politically incorrect levels of ZDDP, as does M-1 0W-40 FS (not to be confused with M-1 0W-40 ESP, or any other version of 0W-40). Remeber, all the Mobil-1 products in xW-40 or xW-50 viscosity are Group III synthetics, which is why they are cheap. If you change at 3k-5kmi, they are fine.

    Red Line 10W-40 still has ZDDP levels in the 1000-1200 range based on multiple UOA's from my engines over the past few years, plus they use moly and some Group V (ester) base stocks, which makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Available at Jegs or Summit Racing for ~$48/gallon, free shipping over $99.

    FWIW: The Mercedes dealer 5W-40 oil spec'd for the AMG M156 engine (with similar valvetrain design as the M119) has relatively low ZDDP levels, ~800 P, ~1000 Zn (based on UOA). The M119 valvetrain doesn't really need a super high ZDDP levels like the M117, but I still don't like low-ZDDP emissions-friendly oils.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Dave M.
    1997 E420 (Bugeyes)
    1994 E420 (Blondie)
    1994 E500 (Q-ship)
    1992 500E (Mach 5)
    1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
    Click here for my website
    Click here for my YouTube channel

  47. #449
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    I will comment on 0W40, which originally was a M-1 only product here in the usa, used universally in oil changes at dealerships.

    When it came out, ppl whom were doing oil analysis found that the 0W40 had a higher wear rate, and when they went back to the 10W40, 15W50 etc, the wear rates returned to their previous rate.
    Klink, the post above from Michael reminded me why Mobil-1 0W-40 got a bad rap out of the gate. Many people, in many different engines, were seeing a spike in wear metals with M-1 0W-40 compared to thicker oils. This was probably 10-15 years ago now, but I remember reading all about it. I don't know if this was a teething issue which was resolved with later versions of the M-1 formula, but this was enough to turn a lot of people off from using the thin stuff... 229.x approval or not.


  48. #450
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Heaven help me, I don’t want to start an oil thread, <snip>
    Don't let Klink fool you, he loves nothing more than oil threads. Cripes, even in THIS thread he writes a book about Mobil 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The M119 valvetrain doesn't really need a super high ZDDP levels like the M117, but I still don't like low-ZDDP emissions-friendly oils.


    Here is the ultimate thread on this forum for oil discussion. Bring popcorn and a comfy chair:
    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1363
    Exactly correct. For an M104 or M119, I would be satisfied with any quality oil with ZDDP at 800+. The valvetrains just don't need it like the M117 and M103 do. I have now been using RedLine 15W-50 in my E500/M119 for years with very happy results.

    For an M117, you really can't go with an oil with less than 1100-1200 ZDDP, 1200+ is preferred. Brad Penn is my go-to oil, and I have been using the 20W-50 weight for many years. Now that I'm living in a colder climate, I may go to a 10W-40 version of same oil because of the winter starts. I'll stick with the RedLine 15W-50 all year around though, as I don't daily drive my E500/M119.

    The M104 gets Chevron DELO 400 LE (a Diesel oil), 15W-40. They reduced the ZDDP in that also about a year ago, but as I said above ZDDP isn't too critical for M104 and M119 engines with similar valvetrain geometry. The detergents/cleaners in the diesel oils keep the inside of the M104 nice and clean.</snip>

  49. #451
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    In agreement with all that, guys. The only thing I take any issue with is you don’t need to change even the “junk” Mobil1 group 3 oils at 3K. That’s crazy talk. They are fine out to five even if you are incredibly abusive, and I’ll say perfectly fine at 7.5 K, which is what is recommended on these cars, anyway. There is also no problem taking them out to 10, and even 13 on newer engines that recommend it, but as you and others have noted, and as has happened to me, they will start to consume a little once you get some miles on them, and they did not used to do this when they were of a higher category base stock. I have had a couple of oil engineer types tell me that they don’t even mind this additional consumption when going out to long intervals, because they like that the additives get a little bit of replenishment along the way. I’m not saying that’s valid, I’m just putting that out there.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  50. The Following User Says Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    maw1124 (05-16-2018)

  51. #452
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    In agreement with all that, guys. The only thing I take any issue with is you don’t need to change even the “junk” Mobil1 group 3 oils at 3K. That’s crazy talk. They are fine out to five even if you are incredibly abusive, and I’ll say perfectly fine at 7.5 K, which is what is recommended on these cars, anyway.
    Very true. Changing M-1 at 3kmi in normal service is overkill. For severe service, or racing, maybe not. 5-7.5kmi would be my personal limit, because that's where the Group III oils generally start to shear down.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    There is also no problem taking them out to 10, and even 13 on newer engines that recommend it, but as you and others have noted, and as has happened to me, they will start to consume a little once you get some miles on them, and they did not used to do this when they were of a higher category base stock. I have had a couple of oil engineer types tell me that they don’t even mind this additional consumption when going out to long intervals, because they like that the additives get a little bit of replenishment along the way. I’m not saying that’s valid, I’m just putting that out there.
    This is where I disagree.

    At 10k+ intervals, the engine will very likely start consuming a quart every 1-2kmi. Not only is it a nuisance to check the level & add oil that frequently, it's also taking a bite out of the savings of using the cheap oil. The engineers are correct btw, adding oil between changes does boost additives and TBN. I still prefer using an oil that doesn't shear down and require topping off after ~7kmi or so. Pretty much all of this is done in the name of cost reduction, which IMO starts pushing awfully close to "false economy"... which I'm highly allergic to. *ah-CHOO!*

    For an engine you don't care about, sure, use SuperTech or whatever the cheapest stuff is you can find on sale, and push the OCI as far out as you dare. For an engine you do care about... use reasonable judgment to find a balance between cost and OCI's.


  52. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    Klink (05-16-2018)

  53. #453
    Senior Member jaymanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Posts
    336

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    What about time?

    It would take me many years to do 7.5K so I change my oil every 2 years now. Even thats probably only 2000 miles or even less for many of my cars...

    I used to change the oil every year, but it got to a point where the oil coming out looked cleaner than the stuff going in!

  54. #454
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Most oil companies state to change every 12 months regardless of mileage. I think this is overkill, but I generally don't go beyond ~24 months for a car that is driven frequently. I've done UOA's at 24 months and not seen any issues.

    Now, a vehicle in storage that is perhaps started / driven once or twice per year... that's a different discussion.


  55. #455
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    This is my personal OCI philosophy.

    Pure Dino = 2-3K (3K is a good rule of thumb for most punters, with a bit of safety margin on top of that). I go 2K on my Chevron DELO 400, 3K if lazy.

    "Partial Synthetic" = 3-5K (I consider Mobil 1 x40 & x50 oils to be partial synthetics). I go 3K on my Brad Penn.

    Pure Synthetic = 5-7K (wouldn't go beyond 7.5K no matter what, safety margin to 10K). I go 5K on my RedLine.

    I think it's overkill to change once a year if you only put say a couple thousand miles on the car. I think every two years is best for low use cars that don't hit your oil's OCI threshold, annually.

  56. #456
    Site Admin
    auto enthusiast...
    Glen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA USA
    Posts
    2,751

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    I wonder what the average miles per year driven is for board members? I bet it's pretty low.
    If so, I suspect folks are changing oil based on time rather than mileage. Just wondering.

    For myself, I daily drive the '94 E500 high-miler. I've owned it for a little over 5 years now and have put just shy of 50,000 miles on it. I use M1 0W-40 Euro @ 5000 mile OCI.
    Going through the records from DrP, it saw mostly Mobil 1 oil throughout it's life @ 7500 mile OCI.

    Current mileage: 627,365
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

  57. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Glen For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-16-2018), JC220 (05-17-2018), Klink (05-16-2018), sheward (05-16-2018)

  58. #457

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    That's one special high miler you have there Glen.

  59. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stevester 500E For This Useful Post:

    Glen (05-16-2018), gsxr (05-16-2018), Klink (05-16-2018), maw1124 (05-16-2018)

  60. #458
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,887

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    each 1000miles/1500miles from the day i bought mine .3 years ago approx.,I always start my car ownerships by doing excessive service..but after some time..i just continue doing the exagerrated oilchanges and stuff...just because i want to..and just because i can Cleans up the engine real good though..even though i do get "bullied at"at work and my carfriends for doing so..and im told that my engine runs more often without oilpressure...than With oilpressure

    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  61. #459
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    That reminds me! A year or two ago, Klink threatened to post a rant about why changing your oil too often can actually be a bad thing. I have been curious ever since as to the science behind this.


  62. The Following User Says Thank You to gsxr For This Useful Post:

    JC220 (05-17-2018)

  63. #460
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.

    I've been driving and changing my own oil since 1983, and have yet to have an engine failure because of changing my (dino) oil at 2-2.5K.

    YMMV, I guess.

  64. #461
    .036 Hoonigan™
    E500E Boffin
    gsxr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Boise, ID, USA
    Posts
    21,345

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.
    I agree, Gerry. From memory, I think Klink meant changing at extreme intervals, like 500 miles. But, we'll have to wait for his certainly-epic rant!


  65. #462
    E500E Guru maw1124's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    FL & MI, USA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,484

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    I wonder what the average miles per year driven is for board members? I bet it's pretty low.
    If so, I suspect folks are changing oil based on time rather than mileage. Just wondering.

    For myself, I daily drive the '94 E500 high-miler. I've owned it for a little over 5 years now and have put just shy of 50,000 miles on it. I use M1 0W-40 Euro @ 5000 mile OCI.
    Going through the records from DrP, it saw mostly Mobil 1 oil throughout it's life @ 7500 mile OCI.

    Current mileage: 627,365
    This is me. I change them all every 5k Miles, just so I can keep track. Keeps it easy — not even I can forget it. Nothing I’m doing in any car is going to foil any synthetic oil in 5k miles. That generally translates to once every year or 2.

    maw

  66. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to maw1124 For This Useful Post:

    gerryvz (05-16-2018), Glen (05-16-2018)

  67. #463
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: OWNER: Ertech

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    FWIW: The Mercedes dealer 5W-40 oil spec'd for the AMG M156 engine (with similar valvetrain design as the M119) has relatively low ZDDP levels, ~800 P, ~1000 Zn (based on UOA). The M119 valvetrain doesn't really need a super high ZDDP levels like the M117, but I still don't like low-ZDDP emissions-friendly oils.

    Now THAT'S news to me. I was told by someone that should know that the "blue cap" 229.5 "MB Genuine" dealer engine oil was identical to the previously sold MB dealer oil "Mobil1 Formula M 5W-40" which speced out Z/P identical to the store bought M1 0W-40. At the time, there was also a "Formula M 0W-40" which, shock of shocks, was also Z/P identical to store bought M1 0W-40. Regarding the "M1 Formula M" USA dealer oils, the 0W-40 was more expensive in any quantity than the 5W-40, so almost everyone ordered the 5W-40, so it seems logical that the 5W-40 is what got picked when MBUSA decided to self-brand the motor oil.

    As I noted above, DO NOT confuse any of these oils I’m talking about with the diesel intended "green cap" "Mobil 1 ESP" (Emission System Protection) or MB Genuine “green cap” oils having the additional identifier suffixes such as 229.51, 2, 3, etc. These ARE NOT updated versions of 229.5, for example. They are low ash, low z/p oils for particulate filter equipped diesels with roller rockers. I am discussing none of those, I'm only talking about oils for M119s. MB permits them to be used in many of the gas cars and earlier diesels, but they are not the recommended oils for the gas cars and earlier diesels…

    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  68. The Following User Says Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-17-2018)

  69. #464
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Personally, I do not believe that changing one's oil and filter at 2,000-2,500 miles is excessively nor too frequent.

    I've been driving and changing my own oil since 1983, and have yet to have an engine failure because of changing my (dino) oil at 2-2.5K.

    YMMV, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I agree, Gerry. From memory, I think Klink meant changing at extreme intervals, like 500 miles. But, we'll have to wait for his certainly-epic rant!

    Sorry Guys, no time for a truly epic rant for quite a while. Here's the short version:

    DISCLAIMER NOTICE! This is based on nothing more scientific than 40 years of personal experience, and my fairly good memory...

    I noticed very early on that the major demographic that suffered the most unexplained catastrophic engine failures that could be conceivably related to lubrication were enthusiasts that changed their own oil and that insisted on doing it at some very short interval like 2K. The busy surgeon that forgot now and then and went well over the interval, never. The engine that REALLY looked brand new inside, the overwhelming majority. Mind you, these incidences were infrequent overall, as one would expect with MB, but I noticed that whenever one of these freak failures occurred, it was just about always to the guy that said, "I don't understand it! I change my oil RELIGIOUSLY at 1,1.5,2K (pick one) miles!" He had the receipts for the oil and filter purchases. He had the full maintenance log as if the car was Air Force One. He had the photos of him changing his oil at rest areas on long trips because going another few hundred miles on that filth was just unthinkable. I have no data, I have only my experience, and I'm telling you, there's something to it. It was ALWAYS that kind of guy. ALWAYS. Oh, and this was also the guy that had the most repeated M116-117 cam wear damages, too, and they seemed to happen at shorter intervals as that incident made him over-change his oil even MORE. Yes, I tried! There was NO talking these people out of this, because for them it really WAS about the oil change, and NOT about the engine life. They are obsessed with changing the oil. It’s their therapy. Even more so, it’s their disease. It’s their version of the endless hand washing, like the Jack Nicholson character in “As Good as it Gets”


    My guess as to an answer for this observation, if there is one?
    Oil is formulated to have a certain acid/base balance, etc. I can only guess that it was more optimum near the middle of its service life than at the beginning. I also wondered if the exponentially greater number of startups at lower oil pressures played a part, but I actually discount that more than my acid/base, or who knows whatever else theories...

    Before you comment, please remember that I stated "unexplained" and "could be conceivably related to lubrication" I'm talking about things like the seized crank where nobody sees anything otherwise wrong. Bearings with too much play for no apparent reason. Cams seized to the rockers with the oil tubes attached and unrestricted, and with NO signs of wear to the cam bearings. All these at well under 100K miles.


    There were PLENTY of explainable failures, like the massive overheat a thousand miles ago, like only about a quart of sludge left in the sump, like the seriously bent rods with the beach sand still in the air filter housing, and of course the ever excellent 40K mile car with the break-in oil filter still in place. Want to know the funny thing about THOSE ones with the break-in oil filters? The car was always immaculate. They looked like they belonged to detail shop owners. Always.

    By the way, this stuff all slowly faded away with the general adoption of synthetics. My possible theory on that? Is the oil better? Hell yes, but I also think that the expense made some oil change crazy guys stop doing the 2K thing. He went out to at least 3 or 4K. now. Oh, and another possible theory? This was often also the same guy that I suspect also put in some miracle of modern science panther piss/widow's tears/racer's secret/my uncle got the recipe from Smokey Yunick himself oil additive. They wouldn't admit it, but I'm sure many of those guys did that...



    Last edited by Klink; 05-17-2018 at 01:14 AM.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  70. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    600Eric (05-17-2018), albdentist (05-17-2018), gerryvz (05-16-2018), Glen (05-16-2018), gsxr (05-17-2018), Jlaa (05-16-2018), sheward (05-16-2018)

  71. #465

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    What happened?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  72. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stevester 500E For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-17-2018), Klink (05-17-2018), maw1124 (05-17-2018), sheward (05-16-2018)

  73. #466
    E500E Guru sheward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cumming, Georgia
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,249

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Fill her up with Johnson? Ahh...no thanks.

    drew
    Drew
    92 500e 58,500 miles
    92 500e 180,000+ miles
    93 500e 179,000 miles sold
    92 500e 110,000 miles sold

  74. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sheward For This Useful Post:

    Klink (05-17-2018), Stevester 500E (05-16-2018)

  75. #467
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by sheward View Post
    Ahh...no thanks.
    That's NOT what she said!
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  76. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-17-2018), sheward (05-17-2018), Stevester 500E (05-18-2018)

  77. #468
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,887

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    I've yet to see engine failure as a result of an engine beeing to clean inside .I've definitely seen some engine failures as a result of soot,and a completely clogged up engine .But there are far to many variables for an engine failure to blame the frequent oil change for beeing the cause of an engine failing,if you ask me that is.That would really have to be investigated throughly.Complete teardown and analyzed the results ,and i would be really surprised if a major engine failure would be traceable back to "too fresh" oil.

    If its so that the engine oil"Spec/Quality" is "designed" to start from "Good" ....then to "Better"...and then suddenly be worse.....well..i dont know..that would be strange and very interesting if that turned out to be the case.
    Last edited by lowman; 05-17-2018 at 03:10 AM.
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  78. #469
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    I've yet to see engine failure as a result of an engine beeing to clean .I've definitely seen some engine failures as a result of soot,and completely clogged up engine .there are far to many variables for an engine failure ,so to blame the frequent oil change, is not correct if you ask me .
    Oh, it is purely speculation on my part. As I said, I don't have an explanation for it, and it could be complete coincidence, but I have definitely seen such a pattern either through true increased occurrence, coincidence, or both. I have seen it enough times that I recommend that people don't change their oil at super short intervals. As I also said, I have not seen any such failures since the widespread adoption of synthetic oils, which is also interesting...

    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  79. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-17-2018), lowman (05-17-2018)

  80. #470
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,887

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

    by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  81. #471
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

    by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?
    "Klink" is also American slang talk for jail, simulating the "KLINK" sound the steel doors make as they latch. As in this exchange: "Where's lowman?" "The police took his evoltwin and threw him in the klink"
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  82. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    gsxr (05-17-2018), lowman (05-17-2018)

  83. #472
    E500E Guru maw1124's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    FL & MI, USA
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,484

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Klink’s “Guy” probably also drove the car to keep both the rpm and the oil pressure as low as possible, thinking the only needle that should point up is the fuel level.

    Again, pure speculation on my part, but we can all imagine that guy.

    maw

  84. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to maw1124 For This Useful Post:

    a777fan (05-18-2018), Klink (05-26-2018)

  85. #473
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    On which/what engines have you seen this occur?and what type of damage have you seen?

    by the way...why are you behind bars?do you feel "locked up" in some way ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    "Klink" is also American slang talk for jail, simulating the "KLINK" sound the steel doors make as they latch. As in this exchange: "Where's lowman?" "The police took his evoltwin and threw him in the klink"
    Sometimes, we feel like he deserves to be locked up, though.....especially when it comes to oil-related rants...

  86. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    Klink (05-17-2018), lowman (05-17-2018)

  87. #474
    E500E Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DFW Texas
    Posts
    2,663

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Klink,

    I haven't noticed that- but you are right, it's well documented in lubrication journals that wear is higher initially after an oil change. I always thought, maybe it was the filter element being completely clean took a while for the media to start providing some restriction. There is a partial size which doesn't effect wear much when it's very small, but the bigger stuff. Some of the worst engines I had the pleasure of repairing were running amsoil in the 90s. They all had the bypass filter and owners were very informative on how long the oil had been in the engines. They were not quite quarkerstate engines. But I must say some of those high pariffin engines which I rebuilt didn't have much wear- lots and lots of stuff.
    Last edited by samiam44; 05-17-2018 at 07:04 AM.

  88. #475
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,887

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
    Klink,

    I haven't noticed that- but you are right, it's well documented in lubrication journal's that wear is higher initially after an oil change. .
    Ive heard that one too..but what i never understood..is "how" that can be possible...and beeing "different"or "worse" to an average "startup" of the engine.This i think may vary from engine to engine...because of the different filter designs...cartridge vs insert and such...so to be fair..(i do not know for a fact)..but i struggle to find the relevance,or importance in that excact point..There is pretty much no difference in the lubrication conditions of the average startup,and an oilchange situation.There is still oilfilm in all bearing surfaces,and the filters are also filled up either manually,,or pretty much instant when starting it up.There may be more initial wear at startup of course...but i dont think it differs between the oilchange startup..and a regular startup.At least thats my two cents
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  89. #476
    Clark Vader clarkz71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    2,119

    Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by lowman View Post
    Ive heard that one too..but what i never understood..is "how" that can be possible...and beeing "different"or "worse" to an average "startup" of the engine.This i think may vary from engine to engine...because of the different filter designs...cartridge vs insert and such...so to be fair..(i do not know for a fact)..but i struggle to find the relevance,or importance in that excact point..There is pretty much no difference in the lubrication conditions of the average startup,and an oilchange situation.There is still oilfilm in all bearing surfaces,and the filters are also filled up either manually,,or pretty much instant when starting it up.There may be more initial wear at startup of course...but i dont think it differs between the oilchange startup..and a regular startup.At least thats my two cents
    When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

    This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  90. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to clarkz71 For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (06-02-2018), gerryvz (05-17-2018), Klink (05-17-2018), lowman (05-17-2018)

  91. #477
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Abstract Plains, USA
    Posts
    4,047

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
    When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

    This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, a fantastic practice. For us, it was always shop policy to do so with any V8 engine prior to the 113. We usually accomplished this by unplugging the crankshaft position sensor at the EZL..
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

  92. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Klink For This Useful Post:

    Duh_Vinci (06-02-2018), gerryvz (05-17-2018), gsxr (05-17-2018), JC220 (05-17-2018), lowman (05-17-2018), maw1124 (05-26-2018)

  93. #478
    E500E Resto God
    Hierarki-Man
    lowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, NORWAY
    Posts
    1,887

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
    When I was a dealer tech every oil change I did I disabled the fuel pump and cranked the engine until the oil pressure gauge needle moved up ensuring that the start up had full pressure.

    This also prevented clatter from the chain tensioner on the M116 and 117 engines


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    awesome.im not the only one then But the nerdy side of me..then thinks..that..IF this was a real issue...i reckon one should do this everytime you start the car also..but that does not happen..so i guess it cant be of any ,,or at least not a massive contributor to "engine failure related sort of thing"...leading to premature wear.I think if you experience mechanical engine failure...i would think that you have other parts of the engine not working as it supposed to.Say ..poor oilpump,,clogged oilchannels inside the engine..and such.
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

  94. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lowman For This Useful Post:

    gerryvz (05-17-2018), Klink (05-26-2018)

  95. #479
    Clark Vader clarkz71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ft Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    2,119

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Yes, a fantastic practice. For us, it was always shop policy to do so with any V8 engine prior to the 113. We usually accomplished this by unplugging the crankshaft position sensor at the EZL..
    Yes I also did this on cars with an EZL


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  96. The Following User Says Thank You to clarkz71 For This Useful Post:

    Klink (05-26-2018)

  97. #480
    Site Honcho
    Klugscheisser
    Ich bekenne mich
    nicht schuldig.
    gerryvz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,683

    Re: Engine oil recommendations

    If you change the oil on a hot engine, there should be enough of a film of warm residual oil on the internals to provide enough lubrication for the 2-3 seconds after the engine starts up after it’s changed.

    I do oil analysis after every change and have never had any serious issues with wear metals relating to something like this, across many engines.

    And no, I don’t fill the oil filter, either. Ever tried to fill up the oil filter on an M103 or M104?!?

    I’d venture to say there is probably less residual lubrication in an engine that has been sitting for days/weeks/month’s than in an engine that was just run and oil changes within 30-60 minutes.

  98. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gerryvz For This Useful Post:

    Klink (05-26-2018), lowman (05-17-2018)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •