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Thread: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

  1. #181
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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    I always personally try to sell as "turnkey" as possible parts so as to avoid putting extra burden on the buyer to have to source extra stuff.

    I do typically give the buyer the option of purchasing new o-rings or not, in case they want to save a few bucks. But I think it's only right to offer new o-rings.

    Nothing sucks more than used soft parts.

    Would you buy used lower control arms and re-use the bushings on them?


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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    LCA bushings are plain rubber and deteriorate significantly over time/miles.

    The oil tube O-rings appear to be something like Viton (?) and I've yet to find any originals that were not still functional. And, I personally would not use aftermarket O-rings, I don't trust them to be OEM quality. On the bright side, new ones are $1.20 list from the dealer so you're only spending ~$30 for new OE.

    By comparison, the oil dipstick tube O-ring is almost always rock hard & fossilized, unless a PO has replaced it recently. The oil tube O-rings are not like that.


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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    I've salvaged probably 8-10 sets of oiler tubes from salvage vehicles. In many cases, the o-rings are quite fossilized upon removal, due to heat, age and just general exposure & wear and tear. In one or two cases I've even seen a broken o-ring.

    There is a HUGE difference between new and old o-rings in terms of flexibility and sealing ability -- older o-rings get "crushed" over time into a flattened outside angle, and upon re-use in a new application may or may not seal correctly. If you don't believe me, remove an old o-ring and then roll on a new one (and remove it if you like). You'll see a huge difference in flexibility. Not to mention a distinctly more "rounded" outside profile -- i.e. the sealing surface that goes against the cylinder head oil passages.

    The (assumed Viton) material of the factory and aftermarket o-rings (I've ordered and used both) is very bit identical to one another. Is the factory o-ring made of Viton, for sure? I've seen the same with the two o-rings that seal the EHA to the fuel distributor on M117 engines - factory and aftermarket Viton o-rings are identical in size, composition and quality. Most green o-rings that I have seen, are made of Viton - it's a common characteristic.

    Unlike Chinese vs. German rubber, DuPont Viton is DuPont Viton. Sort of like DuPont nylon is DuPont nylon. If something says it's made of Viton (or nylon), then it is, or it's misusing the trademark of the ingredient material.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Dear "e500-professors"!
    please can you tell me what is the other problems of plastic tubes beside of ticking?and what mileage they working well before ticking starts? My regards!

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    No set mileage and no other problems. It would likely be at 100,000 miles or more that a tube would blow out, though.


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  8. #186
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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992
    Last edited by Twilling; 11-24-2017 at 06:48 PM.

  9. #187

    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    You car originally came with aluminum oiler tubes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilling View Post
    Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilling View Post
    Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992
    Flashlight through the oil fill cap will tell you for certain.


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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Thanks mate. Just checked it through the Oil filler and saw the metal tube.

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoni View Post
    Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?
    when it comes to the w124 036...the pre facelift versions came with aluminium tubes from factory.IF you are in doubt..they are easily spottable if looking down in the filler cap...there you can spot one of them..and easily reckognisable
    1992 w124 500e "Blackbeauty"
    1989 w201 190e 2.5-16 Evo spec "Evoltwin"
    2003 Ford Focus Rs (Sold )

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoni View Post
    Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?
    Detailed discussion on the break point is in this old thread:

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641


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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Just used this guy yesterday. Excellent help and advice as usual!

    I was able to free the timing chain guides without breaking them. I do not have a record of them being replaced in my car, and by the looks of the valve cover gasket, I wouldn't be surprised if they were in fact original. ~131k on the clock.

    Not sure if my methodology had ANYTHING to do with it (YMMV), but I:

    1. Removed the Allen bolts
    2. Used my fingers to pry up lightly on all four top tangs. Pull the tangs back toward you gently such that their locking bar rests on top of the locking pegs of the other guide. The top pins are now 'released'
    3. Keep your fingers in place on the top tangs so they don't slip back into a locked position. Now take a small flat bladed screwdriver and gently press down individually on the two remaining lower locking tabs that protrude out the back of the other guide piece. The slight force imparted by your fingers on the top tab (backward towards you) should result in each remaining locking tab popping out, one at a time.


    Again, I don't know if this will have any bearing on your specific situation (who knows... my guides might have been replaced 25k ago, without a receipt), but as I said I wanted to share!


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  17. #194
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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    The upper timing chain guides are very difficult to remove without losing small pieces down into the motor. Fortunately they generally just descend down into the oilpan and won't negatively affect chain operation.

    It's prudent preventative maintenance to replace these upper chain guides anytime one is replacing their plastic cam oiler tubes no matter what their car's mileage is, or any time the cam covers are off the heads. Particularly if your car has more than 125,000 miles on it. The plastic goes brittle with age, as well as use/heat cycles.

    Fortunately, also, these upper chain rails are very very inexpensive from MB. DO NOT by aftermarket chain rails -- ONLY MB.

    If you don't have them, put the four parts on your next parts order and keep them in your "hoard" for the next time you have the cam covers off the car.

    Same thing for the cam cover gaskets.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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  19. #195
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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Going to do this job next few days, but have a question here:
    Is anyone know what are torque specifications for all these bolts, especially for a valve cover bolts, as Ive seen a few times on internet that improper torque will damage valve cover and/or occur leaks
    I am usually applying as much as possible of torque to bolts, but I know this is not the place to do that, so for proper installation whats your guess on torque?
    update: search through forum, find a how-to on valve cover gasket replacement, mentioned 9nm of torque?
    Last edited by Neoni; 06-26-2018 at 06:59 PM.

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Correct. Valve cover bolts require 8-9 Nm of torque.

    Due to valve cover gasket compression (particularly if a new rubber gasket), I usually go back after 3-7 days and "re-torque" the valve covers down to spec. The rubber compresses and leaks can happen if things aren't carefully re-torqued. I do this on M119, M104 and M117 valve cover gaskets.

    The actual replacement of the valve covers/gaskets is pretty much covered in this HOW-TO, as the covers must be removed to access the cam oiler tubes.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoni View Post
    update: search through forum, find a how-to on valve cover gasket replacement, mentioned 9nm of torque?
    Yep, that is correct. Don't forget to replace the copper washers underneath the bolts (you need 18, order extras). And ONLY use Genuine Mercedes gaskets, the aftermarket ones don't fit properly, and cost the same vs Naperville (search forum if you're not familiar with the Naperville deal with free shipping).

    Better check the PCV rubber hoses that connect to the valve covers BEFORE you start this job, if they are not recent, this is the time to replace all of them as well. They're supposed to be soft rubber, and are usually fossilized. Order the "fingered" top/center chain rail clips as well, if yours aren't recent, they'll probably break when you remove them to change the front oil tube on each bank.


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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Since oiler tubes have become somewhat of a "liquidity instrument" kind of like cigarettes in prison, thought I'd add this resource. It'd be interesting if someone fab'd their own metal tubes out of machinery lubrication accessory components with part # numbers, etc.

    https://www.gitsmfg.com/

    http://www.devcocorp.com/american/gits_2000catalog.pdf
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Gerry, huge thanks for this DIY thread, read through it last night, gathered needed tools, the removal at pick-a-part went as smooth as it could be! Now I know that when the time comes, I would take on this project with out hesitation!

    On the side note, those plastic clip on rails - what a brittle little boogers!!! When I removed one of the covers, noted a piece of this brittle plastic wedged into corner of the head (not my doing), engine had 166K

    20190210_104839 by Duh_Vinci, on Flickr

    Regards,

    D

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Duh_Vinci View Post
    On the side note, those plastic clip on rails - what a brittle little boogers!!! When I removed one of the covers, noted a piece of this brittle plastic wedged into corner of the head (not my doing), engine had 166K
    The fingered/clip-on rails normally are quite flexible when fresh. When old and fossilized, they break if you look at them wrong. Thankfully they are cheap AND easy to replace.

    The wedgie you see is the top portion of the inner chain rail... sorry for the bad news. Rails are cheap but it's a ton of work to R&R these, as the intake cam adjuster has to come off to get access (along with almost all the stuff bolted to the front of the engine). I have pics on my website (click here) showing more of this job, and I had the same broken piece visible up top.

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    The fingered/clip-on rails normally are quite flexible when fresh. When old and fossilized, they break if you look at them wrong. Thankfully they are cheap AND easy to replace.

    The wedgie you see is the top portion of the inner chain rail... sorry for the bad news. Rails are cheap but it's a ton of work to R&R these, as the intake cam adjuster has to come off to get access (along with almost all the stuff bolted to the front of the engine). I have pics on my website (click here) showing more of this job, and I had the same broken piece visible up top.

    Wow, exactly the same and the same area where yours was wedged in (your pic):



    Great info there Dave, thanks for the education! Wonder what will I find in mine (some day)? BTW, are there any audible signs (or other) wo removing the valve cover to know if these are in pieces?

    Regards,
    D

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    Re: HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

    Quote Originally Posted by Duh_Vinci View Post
    BTW, are there any audible signs (or other) wo removing the valve cover to know if these are in pieces?
    Usually, there are no symptoms, audible or otherwise... unless things get really bad. I've seen some where it appears the chain was rubbing the underside of the valve cover, possibly from broken rails allowing the chain to deviate from the normal path.


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