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Thread: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

  1. #301
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    thanks, well then their gasket goes back...btw fantastic how-to...joined site after stumbling on it...

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    One item, that I want to underscore for all future readers (and potential users) of this thread. This is a VERY important step that should ALWAYS be followed.

    When re-installing the timing chain tensioner, per the factory procedure, one MUST take the step of disassembling the tensioner to "reset" it before bolting it back on to the engine.

    One individual who used this HOW-TO to guide their engine re-assembly did not take this step, and ended up snapping the sprocket off of one of their cams due to directly re-installing the timing chain tensioner.

    The tensioner's design is such that it "sets" itself at a certain point via an irreversible, internal self-ratcheting mechanism. This ratchet must be "reset" through disassembly of the tensioner (a 5-minute job) before re-installing the tensioner onto the engine.

    If one buys a new tensioner, then one should make sure it's set correctly (i.e. not ratcheted) before installing it.

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Gerry, Thank you for taking the time to document this rebuild, It was very helpful. I just fired up mine last night. I was half shocked that the car didn't ex/im plode

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by PDXTyler View Post
    Gerry, Thank you for taking the time to document this rebuild, It was very helpful. I just fired up mine last night. I was half shocked that the car didn't ex/im plode
    Great - and glad the documentation was helpful. As long as the engine turns without interference, and you disassemble & then re-assemble (or better yet, REPLACE with a factory piece) the timing chain tensioner, you should be good to go.

    Check for oil leaks at the valve cover and adjust bolt tension on the cover bolts as needed.

    It always thrills me when folks are successful with jobs based on the HOW-TO articles on this site.

    It's amazing that this HOW-TO has received more than 28,000 views, to date. There must be a huge interest/demand for M104 top-end work.

    Congratulations !!!

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    You should be in a perpetual state of "thrilled" Honch, I get PM from noobs from several sites who have read these How To threads of yours and others and just get it so much clearer than the manuals. So while not always known to you, others have thrown out their Kent subscriptions and Chilton's manuals in favor of the HHT (Honch How To) series! I for one have retained separate PDF of every one posted.
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    It's amazing that this HOW-TO has received more than 28,000 views, to date.
    That must be the highest-viewed thread on the forum. What are #'s 2, 3, etc?


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    That must be the highest-viewed thread on the forum. What are #'s 2, 3, etc?

    I think 400Eric's drag-racing thread is also up there, as well. Haven't looked lately at the view-total for it, though.

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I think 400Eric's drag-racing thread is also up there, as well. Haven't looked lately at the view-total for it, though.
    Indeed, it has over 42000 views!
    A quick perusal shows the M119 vs M113 thread and Russian EPC thread both at 26xxx.
    '94 E500 (744) | '94 E500 (199)         Misc. snapshots

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    I am sure that the vast majority of those 42K views are Eric checking the thread constantly to see whether someone has replied to it



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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    Indeed, it has over 42000 views!
    A quick perusal shows the M119 vs M113 thread and Russian EPC thread both at 26xxx.
    Is there a link which shows the top viewed threads, or do you have to poke around and look for high numbers?


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Is there a link which shows the top viewed threads, or do you have to poke around and look for high numbers?

    If there's an easy way I don't know about it. I just went thru the forums and ordered the view list.

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  18. #312
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Hello,

    In addition to re-setting the timing chain tensioner before installation, ( which is actually a well understood fact, & why one should pay for the expertise of a qualified mechanic ), if there is any doubt as to its operation, eg, sticking or binding, it should be replaced with a brand new OEM tensioner, no questions asked, & no chances taken. You also rotate the engine over by hand to re-insect timing mark alignment, & check that the ratchet-mechanism of the tensioner is working. You can check this to by rotating the engine the opposite way, as this reveals the actual amount of slack in the chain. Any doubts, reveals possible problems.

    It seems Mercedes Benz Spare parts will also be happy with this thread !

    Regards,

    Sellc

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Sellc View Post
    You can check this to by rotating the engine the opposite way, as this reveals the actual amount of slack in the chain.
    It is my understanding that the engine should NEVER be rotated in the opposite direction from which it rotates while in operation.

  20. #314
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Hello,

    There's nothing wrong with rotating the engine by hand the opposite direction at the crankshaft a few degrees to see whether the tensioner ratchet mechanism has released / extended itself, or whether it's remained stuck from the re-setting. Ideally, & afterwards, with the timing marks found to be satisfactory, & the chain has most of its slack taken-out, you then with the spark-plugs removed crank the engine until you have oil-pressure reading on the gauge, & then visually note its flow on the over-head gear. This will also allow you to confirm that the chain is at the correct tension, & that the tensioner is working as it should be, since the oil pressure will have activated the internal components of the tensioner & applied hydraulic oil-pressure via the plunger onto the chain. You can then with a long screw-driver confirm the plunger is locating, as it may move back a little, before locating itself on its ratchet. Cranking also lubes all of those dry bearing shells inside the motor that have not seen any oil in a long while. This assures longevity of your motor, & assures no rattles on first start-up.

    Regards,

    Sellc
    Last edited by Sellc; 12-21-2015 at 06:19 AM.

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  22. #315
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    The wagon comes home to Oregon.
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    So THAT'S who got in line before me. Excellent. Good for you, Ken!
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Seen a couple of those here in Carmel. No C126 just a bunch of W126 and e420.
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  26. #318
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    hi all, i have a m104.992 in a e320 coupe and i am trying to locate the MAP switch in engine bay. any help would be apreciated. thanks

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Not sure what you mean by "MAP switch"? What does it control?

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    I'm guessing "manifold air/atmospheric pressure"...?

    On the M119 LH cars this function is performed by the EZL, on M119 ME cars there is a separate sensor above the water pump. I'm not sure how the M104 HFM works.


  29. #321
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "MAP switch"? What does it control?
    I mean manifold absolute pressure sensor, i called it switch because you do so in your 2nd post, pic 23.

    Im in hunt of dtc error, i get 23 blinks on pin 8. and i am very confused now, what exactly is this error :

    "23 Intake manifold pressure (in base module pressure sensor-) with engine running too high/low"
    (i think this is for california version, with integrated diagnostic module)

    or

    "23 Ignition output 2 or ignition coil for cylinder 3 and 4 (Engine 111, cylinder 2 and 3)"

    This is e320 '94 coupe euro, m104.992, coils and Ht leads have 10k km, both beru.

    is it the coil error or manifold pressure?



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  30. #322
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    i've swapped 1&6 cyl coil with 3&4 cyl coil, still same error 23, harness date is 2001


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  31. #323

    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Can the "smear" that is used to adhere the ETA-to-manifold gasket to the ETA be purchased at a local parts store?

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevester 500E View Post
    Can the "smear" that is used to adhere the ETA-to-manifold gasket to the ETA be purchased at a local parts store?
    Yep. Plain blue Hylomar HPF, nothing fancy... might need to Google and find out what the name of the stuff is at the local McParts, as it may or may not say "Hylomar" on it. Try NAPA...


  33. #325

    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Ok. I was wondering if the maple syrup colored goo I normally see on the bottoms of ETA's was something special...
    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Yep. Plain blue Hylomar HPF, nothing fancy... might need to Google and find out what the name of the stuff is at the local McParts, as it may or may not say "Hylomar" on it. Try NAPA...


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Factory goo may have been different, or a previous mechanic may have used something different. A thin coat of blue Hylomar works well, all it does is hold the gasket in place during installation.


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    This discussion was intriguing me, as I didn't remember when I did the M104 top-end refirb, that any "goo" was required for the gasket between the bottom of the ETA and the manifold.

    It's a gravity fit, and the ETA fits straight downward onto the top of the manifold. So why would "goo" be required to hold it in place?

    I also don't recall that any "goo" was specified in the factory service procedure for R&R of the ETA from the manifold. There's four bolts that hold the ETA (through the holes in the square gasket) to the top-facing mounting surface of the intake manifold.

    Same thing for the small gasket that is between the intake manifold and the end of the EGR tube where it bolts on .... no "goo" required.

    Removal:


    Installation:


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    It's more of an M119 thang. I agree, Gerry, with the manifold off it should be goo-free on the M104.


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    It's more of an M119 thang. I agree, Gerry, with the manifold off it should be goo-free on the M104.
    Even with the intake manifold ON the head it's a goo-free thing with the M104. The ETA is pretty easy to access on the 104, a fair bit easier than on the 119, where its location is about deep as the Marianas Trench.

    So the next question would be that if this was an M119-related question, why is it in an M104-specific thread on the forum?




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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    It may have been an M104 question... can't keep up with Stevester's fleet!!


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    It may have been an M104 question... can't keep up with Stevester's fleet!!

    I guess only The Stevester can answer that question. Sounds like he's a 104 guy now....

  40. #332

    Re: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Gerry, great write up.
    I read the section where you took inventory of the vacuum lines.
    I did not see which lines connect to the circled in red nipple on the lower intake.
    I am having idle issues on my M104. In search of the culprit, I saw that there was not a vacuum line connected to the nipple circled in red. The only thin on the nipple was a mushy deteriorated rubber line.
    Which vacuum line connects to that nipple?
    Thanks in advanced.

    Correction: I have inserted the correct photo.
    I think I know what my answer is. My 1993 M104 might have a 1992 lower intake, straight from the factory. And perhaps that 1992 lower intake had a use for the nipple. But I think on 1993's the nipple is just capped with a rubbed cap.
    The area in question is now correctly in red. And on Gerry's the nipple is not there. I checked my 95' e320 and it looks just like this pic, it's also void of a nipple. You can see were the casting has been modified to eliminate this nipple.
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    Last edited by Stevester 500E; 06-02-2017 at 01:37 AM.

  41. #333
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Gerry - I was told the valve-cover is magnesium (at least for the C36) and that it must be Dow 7 or Dow 9 primed PRIOR to painting or powder-coating otherwise it will out-gas and start bubbling/showing.

    Regardless, I will call Precision Powder coating in Spring. TX.

    Thanks,
    neil
    Last edited by M104-AMG; 07-24-2017 at 10:52 AM.

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    HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    The covers on the 104s are definitely magnesium - that was confirmed by the powder coaters. Two cars I know of have covers painted by the shop in Spring -- 281lxm's spruce mafia E500 and maui's option-loaded E320 white wagon.

    Cheers from Victoria Pub, across from Hyde Park, central London

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    I have nothing in the area of changes visible in surface or color on my covers.
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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    I have two sets of M119 covers I need to get coated.


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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    That must be the highest-viewed thread on the forum. What are #'s 2, 3, etc?

    I think this thread has now received more than 58,000 reads to date.... likely one of the highest-read threads on this forum.

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    Re: HOW-TO: M104 / W124 Top-End Rebuild

    This thread is gonna pay dividends when I have to re-do the top-end of my M104 in my G-wagen......I'll get to relive the adventure all over again. The G-wagen just turned 120K miles.

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