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Thread: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

  1. #181
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Yes my mistake, stopped reading after the to small comment.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    To bad I missed this group buy by a year....I have wavetrac in my rwd converted 997 turbo, any chance wavetrac would produce more of these units?

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I have an unused/new in box unit available, still at the Jack-Man's batcave....it could be available, at a price.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I have an unused/new in box unit available, still at the Jack-Man's batcave....it could be available, at a price.
    I would be interested at the right price. Why didn't you install it, Gerry?

    Chris

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgo_Chris View Post
    To bad I missed this group buy by a year....I have wavetrac in my rwd converted 997 turbo, any chance wavetrac would produce more of these units?
    AFAIK, they are available new from your favorite WaveTrac dealer. The group buy was for a reduced price. Dunno what the going rate is nowadays but IIRC, retail is $1395?


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgo_Chris View Post
    I would be interested at the right price. Why didn't you install it, Gerry?

    Chris
    I've been intending to, but just haven't made it up to College Station to hang with the Jack-Man. Hopefully will get up there soon. I don't know what the price would be, have to think about that. Hadn't seriously thought of selling it before.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    They were running a special at SEMA last year but I don't remember what the price was. I know it included shipping. I will check it out again this year. of course that won't be until next November. I'll post again before I go if anyone wants me to check anything out for them. I will also have a few extra passes if anyone is interested in going. The first week of November in Vegas. It's always a blast and a car guys Mecca.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Let me know, Gerry. I'm down the street from you in River Oaks area. Anyone have any feedback on their LSD installed? I like going sideways, curious to hear how the car feels doing so.

    Chris

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    To be honest, it will probably be cheaper to get one direct from WaveTrac than I'd sell mine for. Jono may also have an extra unit for sale. I know he bought a number of them including a couple of extras.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgo_Chris View Post
    Let me know, Gerry. I'm down the street from you in River Oaks area. Anyone have any feedback on their LSD installed? I like going sideways, curious to hear how the car feels doing so.

    Chris
    Give 'em a shout , here's their site still showing 500E application: http://www.wavetrac.net/application.htm

    Last I checked back in September last year they were on back order . I believe this group buy cleaned them out but should be in stock now.

    If you like to drive hard the difference is night and day. Normal driving upto 3/4 throttle , off the lights, you can certainly feel it bite. As for going side ways and tire smokin' stuff....sure but you'd need to defeat ASR . IMO , LSD and SA brakes are the best upgrades you can do to add to that great driving experience with these cars.

    @gerry, when you come over, and if you have time , we'll borrow Martin's to hoon around in so you'll feel the difference.
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    OK, sounds good. I'll have the day Sunday May 17 free, it looks like. Rest of the trip is going to be tight, though I'll be in London through Friday May 22.

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    group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgo_Chris View Post
    To bad I missed this group buy by a year....I have wavetrac in my rwd converted 997 turbo, any chance wavetrac would produce more of these units?
    Contact Matt @ Leistung Autohaus.

    We have 3 units in stock.
    Last edited by 5thscaleracer; 04-26-2015 at 06:52 PM.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    there you go, hit up Leistung!
    Performance parts for w126, r/c107, w201, w124, m117, m119, m102, m104 and few other things.
    Reproduction 17" Penta wheels coming soon!

    http://www.FeindMotorsports.com

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by Maui View Post
    They were running a special at SEMA last year but I don't remember what the price was. I know it included shipping. I will check it out again this year. of course that won't be until next November. I'll post again before I go if anyone wants me to check anything out for them. I will also have a few extra passes if anyone is interested in going. The first week of November in Vegas. It's always a blast and a car guys Mecca.
    I would love love love to go!!! I've been meaning to plan a trip and SEMA would be the perfect excuse hehe
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Little bump, does anyone know if Wavetrac has these in stock?

    I'm shopping around for one of these for my E500, but if we have enough interest, perhaps someone (US-based) could arrange for yet another GB at reduced prices? :P

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    No they are not stocked at wavetrac. If you need them and if Leistung is out of stock you will need a 4-6 week lead time to place your order.


    I believe Leistung still has a few in stock but if push comes to shove a reorder can be done.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I'd be surprised if there was enough retail demand to generate sufficient orders for a reduced buy in...:-/

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    And one more question for the experts out there...

    Will this differential fit on a 3.27 210mm ring and pinion set? It seems some other doffs won't clear this ratio.

    Edit-guess not. Found info in previous post. Darn
    Last edited by Raffaelli; 12-18-2015 at 08:47 AM.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thscaleracer View Post
    No they are not stocked at wavetrac. If you need them and if Leistung is out of stock you will need a 4-6 week lead time to place your order.
    If WaveTrac is out of stock, do they have any plans for another production run (assuming full price, no discount)? If they are out of stock, that sucks, as Dana still owes me a unit that he conveniently forgot to send. (And also forgot to return the stock parts I sent for R&D.)


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    If WaveTrac is out of stock, do they have any plans for another production run (assuming full price, no discount)? If they are out of stock, that sucks, as Dana still owes me a unit that he conveniently forgot to send. (And also forgot to return the stock parts I sent for R&D.)

    Let me look into this

  24. #201
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I have a NIB Wavetrac unit, never opened, possibly for sale if someone NEEDS one.

    PM me if interested. I can ship same day as final payment is received.

    Cheers,
    Gerry

  25. #202
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Hello I saw wavetrack lsd for w124 is still available in their site. but I have a question is that the same product as you guys bought it in 2014-15 or is it different?

  26. #203
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by amin206 View Post
    Hello I saw wavetrack lsd for w124 is still available in their site. but I have a question is that the same product as you guys bought it in 2014-15 or is it different?
    Should be identical. I'm not aware of any changes but you could always contact Wavetrac directly and ask.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Should be identical. I'm not aware of any changes but you could always contact Wavetrac directly and ask.

    Same thing. No changes.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by amin206 View Post
    Hello I saw wavetrack lsd for w124 is still available in their site. but I have a question is that the same product as you guys bought it in 2014-15 or is it different?

    Its the same unit nothing was changed...

    Leistung is a Stocking dealer for this specific diff so if you need one contact them directly. www.leistungautohaus.com

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I thought it was a limited production run for the group buy and shortly thereafter, but I guess I was mistaken. Interesting and good to know.

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  33. #207

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    I thought it was a limited production run for the group buy and shortly thereafter, but I guess I was mistaken. Interesting and good to know.
    Some questions:

    1. How did everyone like the wavetrac LSD in the end? Noisy/clunky, or not?

    2. Who are these blokes on ebay advertising $1245?

    3. Does this thing come with some instructions for installation?

    4. Did anyone ever find the appropriate c-clips for the stock axle stubs?

    Thanks

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    1) There is zero noise or clunkiness from the WaveTrac, Quaife, or factory clutch-type LSD. But unless you track your car, it's questionable if you'd ever notice the difference with normal street driving.

    2) No idea about the eBay vendors.

    3) Zero instructions. Either pay a rear-end shop that knows how to do Mercedes diffs (this is critical!), or DIY it with the FSM (advanced job, tool fabrication required).

    4) Yes, I thought at least with the group buy the clips were included, but WaveTrac probably cheaped out and didn't put them in the box. The part number should be buried in a thread somewhere.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Only thing I will add/counter to dave is I think a LSD is an Awesome mod...esp on the street!

    Couple our Early ASR w/ a proper LSD and it no longer becomes a total kill joy...esp if you're trying to get the jump/make a quick u-turn or anything else that involves turning and the gas pedal @ more then 1/2 way.

    I also find the cars more stable when driving spiritedly up/around/through the twisties...and should things get a little over the top ASR actually cuts in @ moments that make Sense once both wheels are being driven... If things Really get out of hand, I find how the car responds to my inputs to correct far more natural w/ an LSD. Open diff's do strange things when going sideways...@ least strange in my mind.

    Anywho, i've said it before but quantifying an LSD in an 036 is one of the harder things to do verbally but hop back and forth from one w/ LSD vs not, go for a run down your fav road and you'll be Sold...

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  39. #210

    Arrow Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by jhodg5ck View Post
    Only thing I will add/counter to dave is I think a LSD is an Awesome mod...esp on the street!

    Couple our Early ASR w/ a proper LSD and it no longer becomes a total kill joy...esp if you're trying to get the jump/make a quick u-turn or anything else that involves turning and the gas pedal @ more then 1/2 way.

    I also find the cars more stable when driving spiritedly up/around/through the twisties...and should things get a little over the top ASR actually cuts in @ moments that make Sense once both wheels are being driven... If things Really get out of hand, I find how the car responds to my inputs to correct far more natural w/ an LSD. Open diff's do strange things when going sideways...@ least strange in my mind.

    Anywho, i've said it before but quantifying an LSD in an 036 is one of the harder things to do verbally but hop back and forth from one w/ LSD vs not, go for a run down your fav road and you'll be Sold...

    I dont really drive that hard, but the e420 with a 2.82 and no asr is a bit squirrely, so I am pretty sure an 87 td 606 with compound turbos and 4-500 hp and gobs of torque with a 2.65 and no asr is going to require both rear tires to put the power down, esp on corner exits and launching.

    ECS tuning has the diff for 1245.50. I keep seeing higher numbers but not sure why.

    I would be happy to pay someone to do the job, but I am not sure what it is worth. Maybe $200. Any more and I would rather futz around with it myself and order some bearings and seals.

    Thanks for the input. Any vids of the install process? I think my 8 year old and I can enjoy the build together.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    If you have a car WITHOUT ASR... by all means, you need a limited-slip diff! It's a YUGE difference compared to a peg-leg open diff.

    Labor to install is somewhere in the range of 6-10 hours total, including pulling the diff out of the car, taking it apart, installing the LSD, checking backlash & preload, praying it doesn't need to have the shims adjusted, then re-installing everything. This is advanced DIY and other than a few photos on my website, the main reference is the FSM (from the 126 chassis) which walks you through the process. If you don't have access to precision dial gauges and have the ability fabricate some tools as needed, you'll be far better off paying someone that has done this before. If you screw it up, it's an expensive lesson.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    If you have a car WITHOUT ASR... by all means, you need a limited-slip diff! It's a YUGE difference compared to a peg-leg open diff.

    Labor to install is somewhere in the range of 6-10 hours total, including pulling the diff out of the car, taking it apart, installing the LSD, checking backlash & preload, praying it doesn't need to have the shims adjusted, then re-installing everything. This is advanced DIY and other than a few photos on my website, the main reference is the FSM (from the 126 chassis) which walks you through the process. If you don't have access to precision dial gauges and have the ability fabricate some tools as needed, you'll be far better off paying someone that has done this before. If you screw it up, it's an expensive lesson.
    It's 14+ hours per MB to R&R and Build the diff.

    I'd split that time about in 1/2 for each part of the job.

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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by jhodg5ck View Post
    It's 14+ hours per MB to R&R and Build the diff.

    I'd split that time about in 1/2 for each part of the job.
    It's been years since I've done this, but IIRC pulling the pumpkin out of the car wasn't too bad, 1-2 hours if all the fasteners cooperate... another 1-2 for installation. Strip any bolt heads or break stuff, and uh-oh.

    The LSD install, I never timed it, but it can be a LOT of hours. I'd estimate it takes me 10 or so but I'm not rushing it. I figured a pro shop that has done many could possibly manage it in 4-6 hours, that's just for a carrier R&R, and checking preload/backlash. Add hours more if it needs re-shimming: have to take it apart AGAIN, put it all together again, measure again, if still not right you take it apart and re-shim... repeat as needed. Not fun. This is assuming you do not touch the pinion at all. If the pinion is removed to replace the bearings, add another pile of hours. I leave the pinion alone if it's smooth and quiet.

    All of which is why I like to upgrade a spare diff on the bench so I can take my time, then just spend the couple hours swapping the pumpkin in the car... no downtime.

    atg, if you are anywhere near Hotlanta, I'd call Jono and see what he can work out for an installed WaveTrac... I believe he's an authorized dealer, and is one of the few places in the USA that I'd trust to do it right.


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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I recommend that ONLY professionals do pumpkin work. Sort of like alignments.

    When I had the 3.07 put in my coupe back around 2005, definitely had a competent rear end shop do the work.

    I’d do same with a WaveTrac install too.

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  48. #215

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I am replacing the diff with a 210mm. So the diff is already on my bench. I didnt want to do this now actually, but then I lost a half shaft so it needed a new subframe anyway as the diff got ripped halfway out.

    So I got a 500e subframe from Matt last weekend on my way to san diego. I already had the 500sl diff. Half shafts went to cvjreman in Denver on Monday for an overhaul. 420 driveline arrived yesterday. Urethane bushings from Poland are all on my bench. Four bolt flange for the transmission output is en route. All the links are pretty much new and what isnt will get new bushings anyway. Need some diff mounts I guess. And some guibos. And a center support and bearing.

    I hate to be a cheapskate as it is clear Matt knows what he is doing, but dropping 2k on a diff rebuild wasn't really something had planned for right now. I keep thinking a diff rebuild should be cheaper than that, even with 1250 plus bearings and seals in parts. $700 in labor when the diff is already out? Seems steep.

  49. #216

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    WaveTrac should supply the spring clips needs to retain the axle stub shafts, but I guess we'll find out when we receive them.

    You'll need to buy other stuff separately... I'd replace the differential side oil seals, O-rings for the side bearing carriers, and the ASR sensor O-rings too. Oh, you'll need to buy the bearings too... part numbers shown here, click the "bearing" pics. We'll need to have Gerry create one of his signature "HOW TO" threads for the LSD install.

    NOTE: There is an EPC error on the ASR sensor O-rings... EPC only shows the thick O-ring for plastic ASR sensors, it should also show the thin O-ring for metal sensors. Every 036 that I've touched has the metal sensors, which requires O-ring 014-997-97-48 (not shown in EPC).

    Anyone have part numbers for the bearings?

  50. #217
    E500E Guru Rouven036's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    I think 700$ is a good price. Given the tools and experience you need to do the job professionally. I had to change the shims on my diff during the Wavetrac install. Luckily I had several shims in my parts bin. Quite some are NLA for now but a specialized shop might have some in the parts bin too.
    W123, W124, R129, W163, W201, R230

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  52. #218
    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by atg View Post
    I hate to be a cheapskate as it is clear Matt knows what he is doing, but dropping 2k on a diff rebuild wasn't really something had planned for right now. I keep thinking a diff rebuild should be cheaper than that, even with 1250 plus bearings and seals in parts. $700 in labor when the diff is already out? Seems steep.
    If you DIY the job, you'll see why they charge what they do. $700 isn't cheap for an LSD install, but it's not outrageous either. If the $700 includes fiddling with the pinion too, just pay the man.

    Keep in mind the WaveTrac has no wear parts, has a lifetime warranty, and you could remove+resell for about what you'd have in it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rouven036 View Post
    I think 700$ is a good price. Given the tools and experience you need to do the job professionally. I had to change the shims on my diff during the Wavetrac install. Luckily I had several shims in my parts bin. Quite some are NLA for now but a specialized shop might have some in the parts bin too.
    Of the 13 shim thicknesses originally available, only 6 were still available a few years ago; the rest are NLA. I don't know current status. MB expects you to use a thicker shim and have it machined down as needed. To get the numbers exactly in spec, you often need increments of 0.05mm. Meaning that (for example) a 1.70 may be too much, 1.60 is too little, and 1.65 would be just right. And MB only has 1.60 and 1.80 available, so you need to buy a 1.80 (or use that 1.70 you just tried) and machine it. Fun stuff.


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  54. #219

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    If you DIY the job, you'll see why they charge what they do. $700 isn't cheap for an LSD install, but it's not outrageous either. If the $700 includes fiddling with the pinion too, just pay the man.
    I kind of get it, but I would think any decent shop is going to have or be able to fabricate any type of shim required. I am happy to pay for good work but in reality I don't have any way to get the diff to Leistung this week and I am trying to get this job done. Metric, Sun Valley etc are all within about 20 min of my house. I'm guessing there is a rear end shop closer to me that can handle this.

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  56. #220
    .036 Hoonigan™
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by atg View Post
    I kind of get it, but I would think any decent shop is going to have or be able to fabricate any type of shim required. I am happy to pay for good work but in reality I don't have any way to get the diff to Leistung this week and I am trying to get this job done. Metric, Sun Valley etc are all within about 20 min of my house. I'm guessing there is a rear end shop closer to me that can handle this.
    Just make sure the rear-end shop has done Mercedes diffs, and is familiar with the shims. If not... don't let them touch it.

    Remember the WaveTrac needs special fluid, as mentioned previously, the Motul Gear 300 is recommended. And do not use the OE diff cover sealant (blue Hylomar), use the MB black goo (or Right Stuff).


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  58. #221
    E500E Guru TerryA's Avatar
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    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    If I were you I would find the time to get it to Matt. Don’t mess around trying to save a $.

    Think “Pay me now or pay me later”
    Terry

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  60. #222

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryA View Post
    If I were you I would find the time to get it to Matt. Don’t mess around trying to save a $.

    Think “Pay me now or pay me later”
    Yah you may be right about that. If I had thought about it I would have dropped it there when I scooped up the subframe from him.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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  62. #223

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Is there a write up on this install anywhere? Or a parts list?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  63. #224

    Re: group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

    Quote Originally Posted by atg View Post
    Is there a write up on this install anywhere? Or a parts list?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I already have the fsm so will just follow that.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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