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Thread: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

  1. #61
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by 89speedster View Post
    Good afternoon Gentlemen,

    I'll start by confessing I'm a bit of an imposter. I don't actually own a 500E, though I've been lucky enough to drive and admire one which belonged to a good friend of mine. That car was very recently sold to Rowan Atkinson of Mr Bean fame.

    I'm here because I found this thread whilst searching Google for info on the SL73 AMG.

    I've just purchased a Sultan of Brunei RHD SL73 AMG with very low miles. The car was sourced in Brunei and is currently on a boat heading toward these shores. It's been sitting unloved for a long time and will need work to get it up and running again.

    For weeks now I've been researching these cars and their history. I've never come across a car which has so much conflicting information. The story around the Sultans cars make it all the more complex but also all the more interesting!

    Your research regarding the engines is fascinating. Until now everything I've read tells me the SL70 was the 'base' model and the 72 and 73 were effectively the same car with a badge change around 1995.


    Does anyone have information relating to how many of these cars were made? I've read a total of 85, of which 35 were SL72 and 50 were SL73. But the info on here re the engines would seem to blow that theory apart.

    To confuse matters even more, the Sultan of Brunei cars are sometimes referred to as SL730 and have a more powerful engine fitted (565bhp). Are these included within the numbers above?

    The Sultan apparently ordered somewhere between 25 and 52 SL73's/SL730's with the more powerful engine, but I only know of two and another two which are called Argento and have been butchered with nasty Honda concept car bodywork. All of these are RHD.

    Personally I don't think the numbers are correct. I believe the confusion comes about as he owned between 25 and 52 Mercedes with that specific engine, not all of which are SL73's. Certainly he ordered ten S Class estates with this engine.

    Would love to hear any other info you guys can provide.

    Thanks,

    Chris

    Sir, I am curious if you did a personal inspection of the vehicle (or somehow an International PPI) before purchase? Not to be a spoil sport, but I'd heard the Brunei cars were left in pretty rough conditions after the 2008 "bubble". I hope it pans out for sure; love the M120. Mine (when running correctly) have the smoothest powerbands I've ever experienced from 50-130 MPH. I know Renntech was the builder of the SL74. I believe the last one of those in the US (outside of Matt Garret's perfect example in Houston) was exported from British Columbia to Poland (after an NBA goof ran it off a cliff).......

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  3. #62
    Junior Member 89speedster's Avatar
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by baviking1 View Post
    Sir, I am curious if you did a personal inspection of the vehicle (or somehow an International PPI) before purchase? Not to be a spoil sport, but I'd heard the Brunei cars were left in pretty rough conditions after the 2008 "bubble". I hope it pans out for sure; love the M120. Mine (when running correctly) have the smoothest powerbands I've ever experienced from 50-130 MPH. I know Renntech was the builder of the SL74. I believe the last one of those in the US (outside of Matt Garret's perfect example in Houston) was exported from British Columbia to Poland (after an NBA goof ran it off a cliff).......
    Not a personal inspection, but a trusted friend from whom I've purchased other cars has inspected it and sent lots of photos. The big issue was ensuring the car was an SL73 and not one of the many 600SL's the Sultan purchased.

    Condition wise, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the reports of foam and leather having disintegrated in the hot sun, but despite having covered only 4000 miles, the state of the car is poor and it will need a light restoration to get it back up and running.

    All adds to the fun!
    Last edited by 89speedster; 03-20-2017 at 07:45 PM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by 89speedster View Post
    This is how I see it...

    SL72 AMG 7,055cc (Distributor/LH only) Engine designation is M120.981 525bhp / 4 Speed
    SL70 AMG 7,055cc (Coil Packs/ME only) Engine designation is M120.983 489bhp / 5 Speed
    SL73 AMG 7,291cc (Coil Packs/ME only) Engine designation is M120.983 525bhp / 5 Speed
    Chris,

    See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

    Attached is more info.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PurpleDog; 04-16-2017 at 09:26 AM. Reason: additional info

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    Junior Member 89speedster's Avatar
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleDog View Post
    Chris,

    See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

    Attached is more info.

    Firstly, beautiful car, Sir!

    Good question.

    Does it have a catalyst? I wonder if the Japanese cars have more power simply because they don't have a catalyst?

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    That very car is the opening post in this topic.
    That car now up for auction again with Bonhams at their Goodwood Festival of Speed sale. Now correctly described as an SL72 with a guide price of £70,000 - £100,000.

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  9. #66
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Ooo...Goodwood!

    Hope she performs well @ Auction...
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by 89speedster View Post
    That car now up for auction again with Bonhams at their Goodwood Festival of Speed sale. Now correctly described as an SL72 with a guide price of £70,000 - £100,000.
    Thanks for putting this into our view.

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/241...w_lot/5067419/

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleDog View Post
    Chris,

    See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

    Attached is more info.

    Naamloos.jpg
    Is Frank Lang here saying the car with VIN WDB1290761F134374 has a 7.2 engine? Or is this my misinterpretation?

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    Is Frank Lang here saying the car with VIN WDB1290761F134374 has a 7.2 engine? Or is this my misinterpretation?

    As far as I can tell, it's 7,055 cc and a SL70


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleDog View Post
    As far as I can tell, it's 7,055 cc and a SL70
    The 7,055 cc can also be a 7.2 engine. Since the 7.0 and the 7.2 have the same displacement.

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/392225...benz-cl-class/

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...996-green.html

    These two cars both have a ME V12 engine. Both have a 5 speed auto transmission. And both have a 7.2 stamp.

    Confusing stuff since that green C140 also has a 7.0 and 015 plate on top of the engine. But at the same time has a 0018 7.2 stamp.
    Owner Alyehli put a short video of the engine on fb late 2015. Where that 0018 7.2 stamp is shown.


    a.jpg

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    So your SL 70 could well be equipped with a 7.2 ME engine.
    Best is to look for an engine stamp. That should prove it, i suppose?

    Since a plate like this is not on the engine. A stamp is.

    IMG_0896.JPG

    And here i read AMG Motornumber 0029, i suppose that number should be stamped in the engine.

    s.png

    Confusing stuff.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    So your SL 70 could well be equipped with a 7.2 ME engine.
    Best is to look for an engine stamp. That should prove it, i suppose?

    Since a plate like this is not on the engine. A stamp is.

    IMG_0896.JPG

    And here i read AMG Motornumber 0029, i suppose that number should be stamped in the engine.

    s.png

    Confusing stuff.
    Thanks Weide1! Will check


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    I found this SL 72. Some 10 years ago at Autosalon Singen. And via France and UK back in die Heimat. No AMG but a Lorinser. However, AMG is related since the engine was made by MKB. According to the (partial printscreen of the) Fahrzeugbrief.

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/de...Id=C&fnai=prev

    15.jpg

    Lorinser.jpg

    i will ask MKB soon for bore and stroke numbers.
    Like i did some days ago with Väth and Koenig.
    And what appeared, the Koenig M120 7.2 was at the time made by Väth. No inhouse M120 7.2 production of Willy and Walter Koenig, like i always thought.

    14 mei 2017.jpg
    Naamloos.jpg

    In post no. 57 of this topic, i published a car registration document which turns out to be the UK registration of the SL 72 Lorinser. I had it in my archive some while without knowing it was the Lorinser.

    Makes me think, looking at this image. What if the AMG CL600 7.2 in fact has a MKB 7180 ccm engine. With 515 PS.

    12115444422132283698774.jpg
    Last edited by weide1; 05-19-2017 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I found this info in my archives... not sure how accurate the info is:
    ============================================
    6.0L (5,987cc) = 89.0 x 80.2 (stock SL600)
    7.0L (6,947cc) = 90.0 x 91.0 (RENNtech SL70)
    7.4L (7,414cc) = 91.0 x 95.0 (RENNtech SL74)
    Did RENNtech make TWO 7.0L versions? Two images.

    First image - from C140 S 700 pdf - reads 90 x 91.

    Second image - from R129 SL 700 test - reads 90 (one mm bigger holes) x 92 (80.2 + 11.8 Michigan made stroker crankshaft).

    1.jpg
    2.jpg

    I make that 6947 ccm and 7023 ccm.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    And then there is this issue for me. That RENNtech 6947/6944*ccm engine with 90 x 91 bore and stroke is also in this MKB 70 TE S124.
    Some years ago i asked MKB via Email if they had used a RENNtech engine. NO NO NO NO WAY, Avramidis responded. A pure MKB product, he firmly proclaimed.

    * depends on counting how accurate.

    https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6715



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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    I found this SL 72. Some 10 years ago at Autosalon Singen. And via France and UK back in die Heimat. No AMG but a Lorinser. However, AMG is related since the engine was made by MKB. According to the (partial printscreen of the) Fahrzeugbrief.

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/de...Id=C&fnai=prev

    15.jpg

    Lorinser.jpg

    i will ask MKB soon for bore and stroke numbers.
    mail mkb.jpg

    In my archive i had this fax from 2010.

    fax mkb.jpg

    That 7.3 engine is published with these specs on the MKB site.

    7,3.jpg

    It all fits. Just like Koenig Specials M120 7.2 engines were made by Väth, MKB made engines for Lorinser. And perhaps even for AMG. Who will tell?

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Finally, what to do with Hagmann. Here i read about a 7.3L M120.

    30a5kx4.jpg

    And here about a 7.0L M120.

    http://hagmann-autosporting.de/index...pshop&Itemid=6

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  30. #78
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    Did RENNtech make TWO 7.0L versions? Two images.

    First image - from C140 S 700 pdf - reads 90 x 91.

    Second image - from R129 SL 700 test - reads 90 (one mm bigger holes) x 92 (80.2 + 11.8 Michigan made stroker crankshaft).

    1.jpg
    2.jpg

    I make that 6947 ccm and 7023 ccm.
    I believe that bottom bit is from the girl that resides here now...
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by jhodg5ck View Post
    I believe that bottom bit is from the girl that resides here now...
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    it is a pretty darn good time
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Just received from Maria Winkler, After Sales AMG-Technik, the AMG M120 E73 Einführungsschrift für den AMG-Kundendienst von August 1996.

    M120_E73 Einführungsschrift.pdf

    Remarkable. It has 408 kW. First time i see this in an official AMG document. And it has 408 kW in august 1996. So the 7291 ccm was already there in august 1996. I thought from april 1999. When it had 386 kW.

    I learn every day. Exciting.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    And from july 1996 is this M120 E70 Einführungsschrift.

    ES_M 120 E 70.pdf

    And then there is this M120 E72 from 20/12/1994.

    SL 600 AMG M120 E72 mit LH Steuergerät.pdf

    Exciting to complete the information bit by bit.

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  39. #83
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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Quote Originally Posted by weide1 View Post
    Just received from Maria Winkler, After Sales AMG-Technik, the AMG M120 E73 Einführungsschrift für den AMG-Kundendienst von August 1996.

    M120_E73 Einführungsschrift.pdf

    Remarkable. It has 408 kW. First time i see this in an official AMG document. And it has 408 kW in august 1996. So the 7291 ccm was already there in august 1996. I thought from april 1999. When it had 386 kW.

    I learn every day. Exciting.
    Great info, thank you.
    My own SL73 is a very late 96 car, so the date makes sense.

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Come on, guys.
    There's nothing much confusing between SL70 and SL72 and other 7.0/7.2 typos with the same 7055cm3 displacement.
    The key difference are the cams and valve springs.
    If you have only the displacement => you got "7.0 L" engine.
    If you got the displacement with cams and valve springs => you get a "7.2 L" engine with more horsepower.

    Although before, I thought that 7.2/7.3 was the same thing, just LH/ME difference, I was wrong...

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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    It's confusing because these models were sold during the late 90's, when the badge number almost always matched displacement. Sure, today we know the badge is just a jumble of letters and numbers, but back then 72 was supposed to mean 7.2 liters, not 7.0. It wasn't supposed to indicate a difference in power output, which is really what they meant.


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    Re: R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

    Greg
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