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Thread: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

  1. #61
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Ian, it seems you have dealt with the most suspect items. I concur with Dave that the main items to rule out now are the Hubs, spindles bearings. If it were me I would fit new wheel bearing kits both sides up front cleaning the hubs thoroughly. Then carefully test the run-out on the hub itself first – then the rotors after. Also re-check the lower balljoints and tie rods carefully for wear. It sure sounds like an issue with the front hubs / brakes when re-reading the posts above.
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Thanks JC I'll pass on that good stuff to Neville....

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Before you go too nuts on front axle components and measurements, what front brake calipers are fitted to this vehicle? Post pictures if you can. Thanks!
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Before you go too nuts on front axle components and measurements, what front brake calipers are fitted to this vehicle? Post pictures if you can. Thanks!
    Klink, I believe it's the 1994 E500 shown here, so it should have the 320mm Ate iron calipers up front.


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Ian, any update on this issue?


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Greetings Brothers!

    I am now able to update you on the driveline vibration issue that has been plaguing me and my beloved car since I got it nearly 2 years ago, even though I was away for most of that time, all efforts to re-do the suspension and everything to do with it front and rear have failed, and made me very miserable.

    So - the latest was the recommendation from Jono to balance the driveshaft, which seemed to be the only oversight after we found it to be 20deg out and didn't re-balance - and once it had been re-aligned to the markers - didn't make a difference. So balance...

    Then, I took it to another mechanic more local to me. He decided to detach the driveshaft from the transmission and see what happens. If the car continued to vibrate, he reasoned, then the problem would be at the front (tranny, engine) and if not then to the back.

    What happened was that when he detached the front of the driveshaft, the car was smooth, and when he reconnected it, at about 20-40mph the exhaust was vibrating, noticeably. This was with the car supported on a ramp, and not a rolling road, so no weight on the wheels.

    "Marvellous", we thought, "this is now proven to be a drivetrain issue, and something has simply been overlooked by the other mechanics." "I knew it", I said to myself.

    Not only that, but the new mechanic noticed that the rubber bush around the connection from the driveshaft to the transmission at the centre of the flange was oval. He said that this was unusual and likely the cause of the vibration, as it was now proven not to be coming from the transmission or engine.

    "This is the cosmic irony that I have been waiting (and paying) for", I said to myself. "So many stories of thousands and thousands being spent chasing vibration, only to find that a 50-dollar rubber ring is going to be the cure! Fantastic!"

    So, a week later, the silly rubber ring arrives, and the mechanic spends hours replacing it, and guess what? It's worse. Now when the driveshaft is connected, not only is the exhaust vibrating, but also the bottom of the transmission. "Worse than before," says the mechanic.

    When he looks and feels and examines the driveshaft, he thinks he can tell with his tool that looks like it comes from a dentist that there is an out-of-round situation at the front end of the driveshaft.

    Therefore, according to him, either the driveshaft is out of balance (back to Jono's advice), or the flange is out of it's 90deg angle to the tube - "either way", we think - "this is what we need to know."

    So another week or 10 painful days later, I take the driveshaft to the specialists and ask them to balance it.

    The guy takes one look at the driveshaft, wiggles it, and tells me without putting it on a machine, that he can feel wear on the splines. A one-millimetre rocking when twisting, and maybe 2 millimetres up and down.

    "That's the cause of the vibration," he announces, as I am wiping tears of joy and relief from my eyes, "I see it all the time with Mercs, it's the torquey engines, that's it, mate...."

    "But," he says, "there are no parts available from Mercedes, no new driveshafts... " my heart sinks lower, if that were even possible...

    "But," he says brightly, "I have this replacement part that has been machined to replace the mercedes part." He shows me how he will cut off the female part of the propshaft, and shows how there will be no movement whatsoever. I hug him and tell him I will see him the following day. He looks at me quizzically as I leave the workshop.

    So, the shaft tube bent from the heat while they were welding the new part into the shaft, so they sent it off to their head office for straightening, then after another day of waiting, they balance it, mark it and give it back to me.

    Today, I take it back to the car and have it fitted. And there's no movement at all on the splines.

    But IT'S WORSE, yet curiously also different than before.

    - there is now a vibration in the seat at very low speeds from 30-40km/h. It persists all the way up to 130 and beyond I assume. Nothing below 30km/h.
    - there is an accompanying vibration in the steering wheel, which peaks at 100-110kmh. It is higher-frequency than before.

    So up to 100km/h the seat:wheel vibration ratio is 60:40
    From 100-110 it is 40:60
    Above 110 it returns to 60:40

    All is slightly worse on a mild incline, slightly better on a mild descent.

    Now I would love for someone to tell me that the new female part is too heavy, or problematic in some way, or just wrong because I am fortunate enough to have the amazing Steve's 53k-mile driveshaft coming over any time now - and I can replace the old with the new-ish original non-tampered with part and hope that this is finally the problem solved.

    Other than that - I have no clue what it might be. Everything has been done, everything has been checked.

    Thanks for listening....

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    By the way, sorry for not having been attentive for the last few months - new baby!! Busy with wifey!! Thanks for all the posts...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    yes that's the car!

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    UGH! Thanks for sharing, I am sorry you are going thru this. We all have had something as frustrating at some point. Keep up the spirits, you are close to a resolution.
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Thanks I hope so..

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    "Not only that, but the new mechanic noticed that the rubber bush around the connection from the driveshaft to the transmission at the centre of the flange was oval."

    We are talking about the flector's center?

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    not sure. it's has a diameter of about an inch, black rubber in the middle of where the tranny output shaft meets the center of the driveshaft..

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    So, tranny and driveshaft are attached by the flector, i don't really see other rubber thingy here.

    Anyway, in your description there are two new information for me:
    1) the drveshaft is trying to make some "room for himself", practically killing your new parts
    2) if you eliminate one prb, the vibration is worst.

    Have you checked your rear drivetrain? Is it square to your engine+tranny?
    It is just an idea, it is difficult to advise smthing without seeing the car, however a measurement is cheap and don't take too much time, effort.
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  27. #75
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    I know this has been mentioned before, but most of the symptoms you describe follow my pursuit of solving a vibration issue. Mine came down to the driver (USA) side axle. This was after all other components were checked and replaced from the engine mounts back to the driveshaft. Since these are NLA from MB they replaced it with an aftermarket and the vibration moved to different speeds and sound pitch. It wasn't until they were able to find a good used MB axle with clean knuckles that the vibration dampened quite a bit from the original intensity, but isn't totally gone (that's why I acquired another used one from Jeff W).

    Just a thought. Vibrations are annoying, as are interior rattles!

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  29. #76
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    not sure. it's has a diameter of about an inch, black rubber in the middle of where the tranny output shaft meets the center of the driveshaft..
    Sounds like the centering sleeve, #10 in the attached FSM screenshot. I really doubt that would cause the issue described, but I guess you'll find out!!

    I assume all the balancing / booming / thrumming remedies have been tried per FSM, along with "Measuring propeller shaft alignment"...?

    http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20...ellerShaft.htm
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  31. #77
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    I've replace a centering bushing- I think I left the rear flex joint go too long... they are available aftermarket for 25% of mb pricing. "Since these are NLA from MB they replaced it with an aftermarket " I thought driveshafts were made to order by GKN/lobro and there is zero world wide inventory. Correct me if I'm wrong!
    If they are NLA- I can work on a drawing for GKN to make new assemblies. They do that stuff pretty quick. Last one we did a couple of years ago Mark Williams did the drawings.

    When I think weird vib problems- I always think tires and are the wheels round, hub runout etc.

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  33. #78
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    The propeller shaft (drive shaft) is NLA from MB.

    I'm not sure about the axle shafts (half-shafts) from differential to the wheels. Can these be balanced...?


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  35. #79
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    The axles shafts- CV joints/1/2 shafts- Humm.. I don't think balancing it's needed due to the rpm being lower. If you are having vibration, it's due to wear in the joint. The inner joint tend to ooze. You can re-seal it and add a bit of special grease.

    That said- I replaced them on a W124.030 and they made a significant improvement in the smootheness.

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  37. #80
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    curious, have y'all removed the half shafts and run the car at speed on the lift to see if the vibration is still there?
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    So you are checking for vibrations with the car in the air and the wheels hanging. All cars will vibrate like crazy like this. As said above you could check for driveshaft or something else with the half axles out but even that is going to be a bit different because the load on the rear suspension is different and the subframe will be in a slightly different spot. Anyways. Also as said above you can have almost any driveline shop these days do a shaft for these cars. Every car out there now has a two piece drive shaft with rubber flex discs. So it is not like 20years ago when only German cars had those weird things in them. And I would definitely try another set of wheels and tires to see if that changes it. And I did not read all of this but engine and transmission mounts need to be new. And not cheap uro parts.
    Good luck I hate chasing this stuff.

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    GSXR yes that's the thing. It was oval apparently..

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    OK, i've done all the wheels, tyres, front suspension stuff. I'll look at the half-shafts next.

    The driveshaft specialist told me that they have about a 50% success rate with the new female spline part they welded onto my driveshaft last week. He says 'yes, it balanced perfectly, but with the 2hp motor we use, and that might not be enough'.

    So what I have now is a localised problem, if it's the worn splines then that might account for the worn centering sleeve and vibration in the drivetrain in general.

    The good news is that Steve's 53k-miler driveshaft will be picked up tomorrow and fitted on Thursday, then we'll know..... If not, the balance or wear on the half-shafts are the only things that have not been thoroughly examined..

    thanks for all the posts

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    having said that, it kind of stuck in my mind last year when Jono said it's definitely not the half-shafts.....


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    we'll know tomorrow. picked up driveshaft today, balance tomorrow am, fitting tomorrow pm.....

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Hi All,

    So, the new usa 53k mile propshaft arrived, was balanced and brought to the mechanic who agreed that there ought to be play in the splines (of course).

    He noticed that the centre bearing mount had been fitted the wrong way round, causing pressure and and 'unnatural' feel for the whole propshaft.

    Apart from fuming that this could be the case, as the centre bearing had just been replaced by another mechanic, I was hoping that the old one was also badly fitted, the mechanic had just fitted the new one in the same way as the old, and that would be the end of the vibration.

    On driving the car, up to 60mph, the car felt smoother and better. It's actually driveable now without me worrying that the vibration is going to destroy the car. However at 60 - 70, the vibration is still there - mild but definitely shaking the wheel - but it felt much more in the steering wheel again, and very little in the seat. This makes me feel that the seat vibration could be just a referral from the front end somewhere.

    I spoke to the mechanic who refreshed all the front suspension parts back in the day (+ mounts, shocks), and he told me that the only parts that had not been checked/refreshed, was the steering box, which had a leak by the way, since repaired.

    So my question is, which will probably need a new thread, is 'has anyone ever heard of a worn steering box causing a steering wheel vibration'??

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    So my question is, which will probably need a new thread, is 'has anyone ever heard of a worn steering box causing a steering wheel vibration'??
    I've never heard of a steering box causing vibration, however I have experienced steering wheel shake / vibration due to incorrect alignment (toe) settings... it's a long shot, but if the car hasn't been aligned recently WITH the correct spreader bar needed to set "pressed toe", that's worth looking into.


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Thanks! Well, when the car first came from Japan I had an alignment done and they said it was super-straight, once again at the same good place after all the suspension work. I don't think they had the spreader bar...

    I'm just back to thinking it's something in the suspension again because of the shaking wheel, but the guy has done absolutely everything he can according to him...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Any shaking in the steering wheel is, IMO, unlikely to be produced by the driveshaft or axle shafts. Driveshaft issues you'll usually feel in the seat, and the steering wheel may be dead smooth. Sounds like you may be chasing 2 separate issues, perhaps?


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    I had a nasty vibration in the steering wheel of my G-wagen. It was the tires.

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    I used to have quite a lot of shaking in my car when driving at 70mph and above.

    I recently had the following work done:
    replaced engine mounts
    front wheel bearings

    have you checked these items?

    also, have you contacted Wayne Gates in North London/Harrow?

    Hes a stellar guy and is extremely knowledgeable in E500E’s and M119s in general.
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Matin, did the work you did get rid of the vibration?

    Gerry, I bought a new set of 16" wheels from mercedes a year ago - didn't help.

    GSXR - well since yesterday and the driveshaft renewal (and center-bearing put in correctly) the seat vibration is almost eliminated, leaving the steering wheel high frequency vibration more prominent. There could very well have been 2 issues, but I'm really at a loss.

    Wayne Gates is the one who did a load of work on the car at the beginning of my ownership - and it's his garage I'm going to now...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Matin, did the work you did get rid of the vibration?

    Gerry, I bought a new set of 16" wheels from mercedes a year ago - didn't help.

    GSXR - well since yesterday and the driveshaft renewal (and center-bearing put in correctly) the seat vibration is almost eliminated, leaving the steering wheel high frequency vibration more prominent. There could very well have been 2 issues, but I'm really at a loss.

    Wayne Gates is the one who did a load of work on the car at the beginning of my ownership - and it's his garage I'm going to now...
    Yes, it got rid of ALL vibration. I took the car to 120mph (private road...) and there is zero vibrations.

    I thought it was wheel balancing or tires, but when I got the engine mounts + wheel bearings done, all my problems went away.

    Good luck! Terry is a great guy, he will take care of you!
    Matin

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Wow. I'm kind of depressed reading this due to no magic bullets found. I still have driveline vibration, and I'm starting down the road to try to lessen it. My first move is engine and trans mounts. I've also been wondering if tires can be permanently flat spotted, so to speak, by sitting for like 8-12 weeks at a time. In the past the vibration from this phenomenon has disappeared after 15 or 20 min of driving, but on my current tires, I'm not sure that they are ever really working their way back to completely round.

    But the wheel bearing thing is interesting!
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Side note on front wheel bearing adjustment: To do this right isn't easy, it requires a dial gauge and setting to spec of 0.01-0.02 mm. The brake pads must be pried away from the rotor enough to allow some movement, AND you MUST screw in some short lug bolts to tightly attach the disc to the hub. On at least 2 cars I've bought from enthusiasts, the bearing end play was zero. The only explanation I can come up with is that the rotor wasn't bolted tightly to the hub, and when yanking on the rotor to read the dial gauge, it was actually measuring the movement of rotor vs hub with only the one small locating screw. If your name isn't Klink, don't even think about setting this by "feel" and expecting it to be correct...


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Kwontum thanks - can I ask was the problem with the half-shafts detectable by hand or eye?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwontumspeed View Post
    I know this has been mentioned before, but most of the symptoms you describe follow my pursuit of solving a vibration issue. Mine came down to the driver (USA) side axle. This was after all other components were checked and replaced from the engine mounts back to the driveshaft. Since these are NLA from MB they replaced it with an aftermarket and the vibration moved to different speeds and sound pitch. It wasn't until they were able to find a good used MB axle with clean knuckles that the vibration dampened quite a bit from the original intensity, but isn't totally gone (that's why I acquired another used one from Jeff W).

    Just a thought. Vibrations are annoying, as are interior rattles!

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    next thursday I'm seeing Terry for a test drive. He did already the engine and tranny mounts, ball joints, shocks, steering damper, steering box u-joint, wishbone bushes, anti roll bar bushes, track rods, shocks front and rear - all done in 2016....

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    There is a wierd 'hollowness' to the steering wheel at very low speeds. It feels to me that something is worn or loose - but in view of what has been done already - all to try and fix this vibration - what could it be??

    Note I've also changed the rear diff, the driveshaft...

    Super-frustrating because nobody has been able to locate the problem. It's still shaking through the seat as well as the wheel. It's like I'm back to square one... what's shaking the ^%$%^ car??


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    "Side note on front wheel bearing adjustment: To do this right isn't easy, it requires a dial gauge and setting to spec of 0.01-0.02 mm. The brake pads must be pried away from the rotor enough to allow some movement, AND you MUST screw in some short lug bolts to tightly attach the disc to the hub. On at least 2 cars I've bought from enthusiasts, the bearing end play was zero. The only explanation I can come up with is that the rotor wasn't bolted tightly to the hub, and when yanking on the rotor to read the dial gauge, it was actually measuring the movement of rotor vs hub with only the one small locating screw. If your name isn't Klink, don't even think about setting this by "feel" and expecting it to be correct..."
    I have done them with the rotor disc off the hub. Magnetic base dial indicator. Need to be re-checked after a few miles when replacing wheel brgs. When my wheels are off the ground- I usually pull and push to feel for play. Wish he was close I'd go drive the car.


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  75. #100
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Kwontum thanks - can I ask was the problem with the half-shafts detectable by hand or eye?
    Unfortunately, no.

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    So does that mean that one would have to strip the shafts to see if there was wear or play? What would you be looking for?

    Thanks

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Hello All - I've just been to the mechanic, and - to my surprise, I found out that the following parts were badly worn or cracked or generally non-functional and needing replacement. (Not mentioning any names, this #$% should have been done/checked already by more than one 'expert')

    Rear flex disc (cracking)
    Diff mounts (very bad)
    Rear subframe mounts (one very bad, other going)
    Rear multi-link arms
    Exhaust rubbers (wrong type - inches too long) (nb the exhaust is vibrating from low speeds on the ramp)
    Link Rod from self-levelling suspension (stiff/rusted up)

    What effect do you think all of this has on my persistent vibration problems? (Terry will check my half-shafts when doing the work)

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    What effect do you think all of this has on my persistent vibration problems? (Terry will check my half-shafts when doing the work)
    Comments below.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Rear flex disc (cracking)
    This is very unlikely to be causing the issue, unless the disc is SEVERELY damaged. IIRC, Klink has stated that a few hairline cracks are generally nothing to worry about. In some cases, flex disc replacement can actually cause vibration, as the propeller shaft and both discs are balanced as a unit from the factory, and changing them can affect that balance.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Diff mounts (very bad)
    Really? I've never seen V8 diff mounts in very bad condition. "Very bad" means, you can push the diff around by hand and it will move around with visible play at the mounts. If that sloppy, yes, it could be a possible cause.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Rear subframe mounts (one very bad, other going)
    I'll eat my hat if this is causing the vibration. I've seen cars with all four subframe mounts totally shot and the car drove & handled normally, and was no different with 4 new mounts. A couple of my .034's have collapsed rear mounts, they are fine at 100mph. I just haven't had time to get around to replacing the rear subframe mounts on those cars yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Rear multi-link arms
    See above, the suspension arm rubber bushings would have to be in truly terrible condition to cause significant vibration.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Exhaust rubbers (wrong type - inches too long) (nb the exhaust is vibrating from low speeds on the ramp)
    This wouldn't cause the symptoms you describe, i.e. steering wheel shake. Just a bummer that previous experts didn't point this out before.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    Link Rod from self-levelling suspension (stiff/rusted up)
    This may affect the rear suspension level / ride height, but would not cause vibration at speed.

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  80. #104
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    GSX thanks very much. As I suspected. One mechanic says those things are OK, (i.e. not in critical condition and not related to vibration) the other says, ooh they look cracked, shot, stuck.. it may not affect the vibration but we should do it anyway as we've already refreshed the front..

    It's not the suspension, nor the wheels nor tyres. It's not the alignment, it's not the driveshaft and now it's not the engine... I'm seeing a gearbox guy today who will test drive, I'll let you know but we're really running out of ideas.. The only thing in the driveline not yet checked are the half-shafts and they appear solid when checked by hand.. There have been some oversights by the mechanics, so maybe it would be good to go over the brakes and hubs again, but the tyres have been balanced on the car and nothing hugely untoward showed up there... same for the half-shafts I suppose?

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    NB there is also a lot of steering play on full lock each side...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Also, it's in the seat/body from low speeds through to high speeds. It kind of hits the steering wheel from 85-115kmh, then returns to the body of the car..

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by IanAtkins View Post
    NB there is also a lot of steering play on full lock each side...
    This is normal... the steering box has noticeably play almost anywhere outside of the center position (should be zero play when centered).

    It's possible that a number of small items each slightly worn could add up to cause the overall problem, but it's unlikely. And it would be nice to completely rebuild the rear subframe with all new parts, if they are all old / original from 1994, but don't expect that to magically cure the vibration. It might... but I have a funny feeling it won't.

    I'm really short on ideas too. Maybe ship the car to Klink in Alabama or Jono in Hotlanta, and turn them loose on it for a while?


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    GSXR - you know, I was thinking along exactly the same lines....

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  86. #109
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Regarding thay front end shimmy on R129 or W124 500E/E500, I came to the conclusion it's 99% tires and nothing else. Just get the newest tires possible and you will be done with it. If not, they are likely not new enough.

    I've been chasing vibration on 37,000km R129 and tires cured it to an unnoticable level, but it's not possible to eliminate it completely. It's within chassis/front end design, sadly.

    I had very bad shaking on 500E and the amplitude was changing if I ran different sets of wheels.
    Moreover! we had a big debate of whether 0.2 mm play can cause the vibration, lol. It's funny, that 500E has 66.4 mm hub diameter, unlike later 66.5 hubs, so 500E needs 66.5mm center bore wheels instead of 66.6 mm bore that worked later on. Sounds wacky, but it's true, I couldn't put 66.5 mm wheels on 66.5 mm hubs when I tried to change wheels between cars. And so, the debate, can we gain the 0.02 mm somehow? I was asked. "Well, we can wrap around the hub some scotch band?? but that's ridiculous and should not change anything". However! Despite me doing all that under pressure, lol, I admit it did reduce the front end vibration to about 30% less. Which is though funny looking when you wrap around a transparent scotch band around the hub, but effective.

    I believe, new tires should get it to a minor level.
    FYI, the car had 170,000 km. I adjusted front bearings, but made no sense, maybe they should have been changed as well.
    Last edited by whatever; 04-13-2018 at 10:11 PM.

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  88. #110
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Never heard that before. The 500E hub is an R129 item and I have swapped wheels around from various Mercedes models and never encountered this.

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymanek View Post
    Never heard that before. The 500E hub is an R129 item and I have swapped wheels around from various Mercedes models and never encountered this.
    Same here. Makes me wonder if either the hub, and/or a particular set of wheels, was either out of spec or was worn. 0.1mm is tiny! As a reference, spark plug gap is 0.8mm.

    Also IIRC, the MB spec for wheel+tire runout combined is 2.0mm?


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  92. #112
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Actually gentlemen, they were experimenting with a number of wheel/hub concentricity measures throughout that era. All of these situations are possible.
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Actually gentlemen, they were experimenting with a number of wheel/hub concentricity measures throughout that era. All of these situations are possible.
    Great. Now I need to go measure all my wheels + hubs. Thanks a lot, Klink! LOL...


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  96. #114
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Hello - I need to update you...

    So, I got all that work done

    - Rear flex disc
    - diff mounts
    - correct 2.85 diff
    - rear subframe mounts
    - rear multi-link arms
    - link rod
    - exhaust suspension rubbers
    - rebuild steering box

    As predicted, these things didn't make any difference, save that the vibration was more acute, and was hitting at various speeds above 80km/h. So it was there at 80/100/110/120/130/140 up to 160 through seat and wheel and I really thought this was the end.

    The steering did feel a little sharper and lighter (if that makes sense), as the box was leaking before, and it was good to have the right diff on it as the other one whined a bit, but the only improvement to the vibration was that it wasn't happening any more at low speeds 0-70km/h. I put this down to the exhaust suspension rubbers.

    So I decided in a moment of illogic to have the wheels road force balanced again. After having been told on the phone that the shop couldn't reduce the tolerances, I went ahead anyway. One wheel was 35g out, another 20g but none of the tyres needed to be turned on the wheel, so I wasn't hopeful.

    But unbelievably all the high-speed vibration was gone.

    The low speed vibration is gone because of the exhaust rubbers. (i think)

    There is still in my view a problem somewhere in the driveline. I can feel it if I dial into it at 115km/h, it's also there at 90km/h-ish. The difference now is that all that 80-120km/h vibration is now so mild that it seems to melt into the variety of road surfaces and it all becomes almost undetectable.

    The upshot of all this is that I have now been able to enjoy the car properly (on its $10,000 refreshed suspension). I have been very very picky about the vibration and it has now dropped to such a low level that I can ignore it, as it's not really there most of the time and I'm telling myself now that a complex 25 year old car will have something and it's not fatal.

    So I'm actually so so happy. What I'm going to do now (with less urgency) is show it to a guy who's quite local who is in the business of restoring old cars, mainly mercs, and who loves the E500. He can test it on some good local roads and maybe he'll have an idea.

    After that, I'll bring it back to vibration free and see if they can detect where the vibration might be coming from, but for the first time ever it's not a critical situation.

    I would like to thank everyone on the forum for all their support and time and advice - I'll keep you posted.

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  98. #115
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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    I still feel strongly that my car is way too sensitive to wheel-balance and in that sense nothing has really changed. The underlying cause of the vibration is super elusive, and just to comment on the tyre thing - I've had 3 sets of brand new tyres on the car, one on the 17" evo wheels and Michelins + winter tyres on the 16" wheels and it hasn't made a difference.

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Its over a year now since I started this thread, because if you recall I had a very elusive vibration problem - and I have followed the highs and lows of Ian's experiences with great interest.

    With my car, eventually we tracked it down to two main sources - the propshaft, and the wheels/tyres. The former was balanced, which led to a great improvement, and after the latter were subject to some Road Force Balancing, my car is now 99% vibration free. I'm really pleased, Ian, that at last you've arrived at the same point - albeit at some not inconsiderable cost! Well done for persisting!

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Glad to hear you made some progress!

    One more long shot to consider... I learned the hard way on a different MB that if the front toe adjustment is out of spec, it can cause a mild vibration that feels like a wheel out of balance. I assume an alignment was performed after the recent suspension work, but if so, ask if they used the spreader bar when setting toe (or at least know what you are talking about).

    Also, I have noticed all my 124's are very, very sensitive to wheel/tire imbalance and careful RoadForce balancing is required. I also mark the location of each wheel weight after balancing, so I can check if a weight has spit off at speed.


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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    the guys at Imperial Tyres said that it wasnt possible to increase the tolerance for the road force balance. might that be true?

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    Raven, where do you get your RF balance done?

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    Re: DRIVESHAFT VIBRATION

    For passenger car tires, the RoadForce machine uses an arbitrary number of ~26 lbs force as the acceptable limit. Lower numbers are better. The tire shop can move the tire in 90° increments around the rim to attempt to get lower numbers, but this is time consuming and they often don't want to bother, especially if the number is within spec (say, low 20's). Sometimes you can get a "defective" new tire that refuses to balance well.

    This all assumes the wheel is straight & true, preferably better than 0.50mm both radially & laterally.


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