View Poll Results: E36 Widebody or C124 Widebody?

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Thread: OWNER - JC220

  1. #961
    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Hi all- I would like to give a sort of status update on my fleet. I have got a lot of new parts recently for all cars. Some of those ‘new’ parts will be subject to new DIY content for the board coming soon. (The leather DIY being at the forefront on my to-do list!)

    I did make one quite big change for this summer which I am excited about! Usually I only have my daily driver diesel Benz and one other classic Benz insured for road use each year. However when renewing my 500E’s insurance recently I was given the option to do a fleet insurance type deal to include as many additional cars as I wanted (In a classic multi car policy with limited mile usage applied across all vehicles) for a very reasonable fee. So I added my 300E-24 and S280 to the policy for now as they are ready for the road.

    My 320CE & E36 builds are involved projects and let’s face it - they won’t see the road this year. I will continue the restoration work on those cars but some focus also needs to be re-directed on what cars I will be enjoying this summer in our limited season of decent weather and no road salt.

    Thus the next efforts will be to prepare the 500E, 300E-24 and S280 for our annual MOT inspection. The 500E is a renewal only so should need basically nothing. It covered about 1100 mile in the last year.

    My recent S280 purchase will need a set of new tyres to start with and lots of general maintenance work due to it standing for 2 - 3 years by its P.O. The DIY tasks planned include some minor bodywork repainting and the headlamps need aligned for example. I will not be throwing all new parts at the S280 just now - more elbow grease than anything else to get it into good serviceable condition.

    My 300E-24 is a car I restored some 10 years ago and has covered less than 1k miles since but I hang my head in shame to say that car hasn’t been on the road since approx 2013. It was very well dry stored since that time so it should not require much for the test. I recall some play in the front LCA ball joints last time I was working on it so both LCA’s will be renewed on it before the test.

    Very much looking forward to enjoying 3x classics this summer - stay tuned for the MOT prep updates coming soon
    Last edited by JC220; 03-21-2018 at 01:02 AM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  3. #962
    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I got an original w140 V12 sales brochure on ebay recently – it’s got some great pictures inside. Now that I have the brochure though it appears I NEED a V12 w140

    A scanned copy is attached in jpegs so any interested members can read it too The artwork is very nice - I may just frame each pic!

    IMG_7741.JPG

    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    3.jpg

    4.jpg

    5.jpg

    6.jpg

    7.jpg

    8.jpg

    9.jpg
    I also bought another w124 which is to be delivered in 48 hours. Nothing special – likely to be a parts donor but ill see when it turns up

    On the w140 front I did fit a new Wahler stat to the S280 which lets it fully warm up now. But I also noticed for the first time that when revving the engine at idle there is a distinct hesitation to rev. Possibly fuel related or a duff MAF. It stumbles (like a soft misfire almost) then the revs climb almost normal after this pause.

    In any case my Star setup is still off getting repaired so I can’t pull codes from it until at least next week. Still can't even locate the fecking diagnostic port on it either. It’s MOT is booked for 14th April so it will be tight going to diagnose and repair it before then (along with the other standard prep work needed) so I hope my Star system is fixed soon.

    I was told today after they did a full new software re-install on my laptop that my C3 multiplexer has stopped working as Xentry ‘Balcklisted’ some multiplexers..... very odd. But they are standing over it and obtaining a replacement C3 multiplexer even though it’s out of warranty. It’s just a waiting game now for the replacement multiplexer to turn up and him to test it – then return it all to me all being well.
    Last edited by JC220; 03-26-2018 at 03:06 PM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  5. #963
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Mmmm meh. I wasn’t sure what was turning up & bought it sight unseen It’s a parts donor only so to that end there is lots of good exterior & interior trim I can get off it. The diesel engine has over 300k miles on it and still runs A1 – it drives up hills at 30mph in 5th gear! But the old girl has too much rust to bother repairing it (Being a basic 250D only) I'll pull and keep the manual transmission..... as spare for the spare.

    IMG_7762.JPG IMG_7763.JPG IMG_7764.JPG IMG_7765.JPG

    Its so rough looking ill have to take it around back and cover it over until I part it out which will be happening quick. It hurts to look at it! If any UK members require pedestrian W124 parts let me know!
    I bet 036 owners will be tripping over themselves to get that rear spoiler!
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  7. #964
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I had to catch myself twice while viewing the photos:

    -full size passenger side rear view??
    -trunk mounted battery??



    Apparently its been a long day ‘mate’


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  9. #965
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    I had to catch myself twice while viewing the photos:

    -full size passenger side rear view??
    -trunk mounted battery??



    Apparently its been a long day ‘mate’
    Yes you guys put the steering wheel on the wrong side over there! My 500E is an oddity here being the only LHD car in town. Dismantling has commenced on this Diesel machine
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  11. #966
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    A W140 update now.... well not much to report just yet. She’s up on Jack stands, has had all underbody shields removed and steam cleaned including the engine compartment. (It’s outside because with 8 Mercedes at my house I’ve no garage / workshop space left at the moment) Next up and weather permitting is some surface rust repainting and waxoyling underneath and general re-commissioning work due to it’s lack of activity for years. Indeed on date checking the 4x cracked tyres on it they are pre year 2000..... at least 18 year old rubber and they were nearly new tread depth! New tyres incoming from France so they will be junked before taking it on the road.

    IMG_7797.JPG

    The biggest issue to date is I can’t get any codes from the S280. My Star C3 setup is still gone for repair and I’ve given up getting it back any time soon. On using my LED blink reader on the 38 pin socket under the hood it would not respond at all. On trying HFM scan I got the same thing – no response from the ECU. I checked my HFM scan setup and cables by connecting them to my E36 AMG – all good.

    IMG_7820.JPG

    Quite annoying – maybe my Star will be able to connect when it gets back but I’m not hopeful on that either. There is some sort of problem preventing codes being read. Has anyone any ideas – maybe a pin corrosion problem in the Diag socket?


    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  13. #967
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Is there a way to check for electrical current going to the port?
    2014 MB E63S, 2008 Tundra, 2006 Lotus Exige S, 1989 FJ62 Land Cruiser, 1996 Ford Bronco, and some other interesting and not so interesting vehicles.

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  15. #968
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
    Is there a way to check for electrical current going to the port?
    Yes there is power to pins 2 + 3 and the blink reader does light up. But the HFM / ECU does not respond / blink
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  17. #969
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I'm not sure if you can get any blink codes from a 1997 model W140, and you definitely can't for the engine computer. Most of the analog blink coding went away as of 1996 USA model year, for most all chassis IIRC.

    You'd need to check the WIS to confirm, but I expect you will need to use the SDS C3 when it's returned and working. BTW... to avoid the multiplexer being blacklisted again, don't connect the laptop to the interwebs, ever.


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  19. #970
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    I'm not sure if you can get any blink codes from a 1997 model W140, and you definitely can't for the engine computer. Most of the analog blink coding went away as of 1996 USA model year, for most all chassis IIRC.

    You'd need to check the WIS to confirm, but I expect you will need to use the SDS C3 when it's returned and working. BTW... to avoid the multiplexer being blacklisted again, don't connect the laptop to the interwebs, ever.

    Thanks Dave - I was beginning to wonder if the model year had something to do with it. I shall wait until I can get it on Star. Lots of work planned anyway for the next couple of weeks - more on that later

    RE the C3 I had never connected it to the internet but I am pretty sure my IT guy did which was the root of these problems for me. When it’s back & running again I won’t let it out of my sight! There is a new Multiplexer being supplied which is 12v only as apposed to 12+24v like I had. The Star specialist claims the single voltage multiplexers are much more reliable and he has had them ‘in the field’ for circa 6 years with zero issues. Supposedly I’m top of the list now to have my laptop shipped back but I suspect it’ll be next week until anything actually happens.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  21. #971
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    On the sticky subject of tyres again –I decided to stick with the original size fitted to my S280 of 225 / 60 R16. This is because I did not wish to junk the as brand new never fitted spare (Originality I guess) and for fear of possibly over taxing the already taxed 2.8 engine with slightly larger circumference tyres. As for the tyres themselves I considered my choice carefully – as I always do. Unfortunately 95% of patrons here go for the budget options such as Hi Fly, Roadstone & Triangle to name just a few

    I would never fit budget tyres like that to any of my Mercedes. What is important for me is to weigh up all options available in terms of mid range / high end tyres and decide what will give me most value. I’m not sure about the USA but here we have clear tyre labelling systems. As an example here were the options I narrowed the search to:

    tyres.jpg

    Long story short I am very familiar with Maxxis tyres as I am on my 3rd set on my daily driver Mercedes and the wet grip is the best I’ve had on any tyre. The Michelins; although 1db quieter – where at a £260 premium in overall price VS the Maxxis Tyres! So I ordered them and got my set delivered today:

    IMG_7823.JPG IMG_7825.JPG

    They will replace the 18+ year old tyres currently fitted. Although there is still about 5mm tread left but they are badly cracked and dangerous.

    IMG_7785.JPG
    Last edited by JC220; 04-04-2018 at 03:58 PM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  23. #972
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I found what appears to be a lack of grease on the S280’s wheel bearings. On taking the hubs off there was only a smear of grease on the bearing races – usually I expect to see a qty of grease on the inside of the cap too for example. Both hubs were identical and likely have been un-opened from factory.

    This seems like way too little grease to me?

    IMG_7833.JPG IMG_7834.JPG
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  25. #973
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I used to think the same thing, but Klink says that is acceptable, and won't hurt anything. Looks decently clean to me!

    The FSM procedure does say to fill the cap with 15g of neon green goop, IIRC... or it might mean, maximum 15g in the cap?

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  26. #974
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    This is a C126, but close enough.... https://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...ll=1#post50751

    That does look a bit light on the wheel bearing grease, to me. Probably OK, as the grease is where it needs to be and of a good color, but definitely looks light. I think one tube of MB wheel bearing grease is enough to do about 4 front wheels. As GSXR says the FSM says to put 15 grams of grease (a very very healthy dollop) inside of each cap, and of course the wheel bearings (inner and outer) themselves need to be slathered in it. I also put a medium coating of wheel-bearing grease on the outside of the bearing assembly (the locking nut, etc.) area.

    The Lowman has one of his video HOW-TOs posted here, that also may be of interest: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11262

    Cheers,
    Gerry

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  28. #975
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The MB grease comes in a 150g tube. Spec is 45g per hub and 15g in the cap, or 60g per side... 120g for two wheels, leaving 30g left over. The 30g remaining is either in the tube (can't get 100% out unless you cut it open), or on your hands, or in the plastic bag used to squeeze the grease into the bearing rollers. Normally will take 1 tube per pair of front wheels. Don't forget to use some lug bolts to clamp the rotor to the hub tightly while checking end play via dial gauge!


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  30. #976
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thanks for the replies - your thoughts are similar to mine! I think it’s a tad too light on grease. If you look closely at my bearing pic above you can actually see in between the bearing rollers inside the cage! I found this Banz Photo DIY which is good to be fair:

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...topics/2086689

    I have ordered a tube of grease and 2x rear hub seals from my MB dealer so I can clean / repack & set the bearings next week all being well
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  32. #977
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    I kept telling myself- don’t get carried away it’s just a regular MOT prep a few hours will do it......

    IMG_7877.JPG

    Yep the W140 is in many pieces and due for the test in a few days. There was nothing actually wrong with it BTW – I’m detailing underneath it. With a bit of luck it will be on the road again on Saturday. That’s the front fenderwell – subframe up there too. The first i've seen that on a Benz


    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  34. #978
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    So after many years of slumber the S280 is road legal again! It passed MOT last night with no advisories or issues at all. 3 of the examiners went straight under the car with the expectation of rust holes...... but then they were disappointed to find it had none!! Indeed they were very complimentary on the car’s condition. Below are the results of emissions, brakes efficiency etc – it seems like it’s in good order for a 21 year old car:

    mot sheet.jpg
    What follows are some pics and a list of the works that’s been going on simply to re-commission the car for now:

    New pair of windscreen wipers
    New rear window regulator
    Front end suspension stripped out and re-painted
    Front subframe wire brushed and re-finished
    Steel sump pan removed and re-painted
    New rear ATE brake discs and pads
    Original Front brake discs and pads removed and cleaned (Still AOK)
    Brake callipers removed, checked and re-painted. One rear calliper had a corroded piston so was junked in favour of a reconditioned one.
    Parking shoes cleaned & adjusted
    New Stainless brake hoses + brake fluid flush
    Front wheel bearings stripped, cleaned, new rear seals & set bearings with dial indicator
    New front ARB Drop links
    4x new tryes
    New rear plastic fender liner pair (Originals broke into pieces upon removal – the plastic had degraded)
    Front fender liners removed for cleaning / waxoyling to fender wells. Plastics cleaned and re-fitted with new MB bolts

    IMG_7798.JPG IMG_7801.JPG IMG_7852.JPG

    IMG_7857.JPG IMG_7899.JPG IMG_7917.JPG IMG_7919.JPG

    IMG_7920.JPG IMG_7922.JPG IMG_7925.JPG IMG_7926.JPG

    IMG_7927.JPG IMG_7929.JPG


    (The front shocks and plastic trays were not fitted yet in the above pictures) There is some other stuff done too. The car looks decent underneath for now but I’m not done with it. The rear subframe and suspension will be cleaned up & repainted soon and the entire body waxoyled to protect it. I’ll get it on a friends lift and get pictures soon – the underbody is 100% original and in superb condition. The engine and gearbox bellhousings are shining clean. I was in 2 minds if I should waxoyl it or not. IE: the original finish would be replaced with black wax. But in the end I chose the practical protection of the wax than going for a concourse appearance!

    It wasn’t all plain sailing though. I bought this car recently and have never driven it due to not being road legal for years – it was trailered home. As soon as I got it on the road it was apparent there was a total lack of power and it was running on 4 cylinders it seems Amazingly it behaved itself in the test centre hall – but on the road it wasn’t good at all. I think a coil pack is out possibly but I’ll diagnose it in a few days starting with new spark plugs (Since I do not know what is currently in there).

    The windscreen wiper is also amazingly slow and jammed up from lack of use. I’ll buy a new wiper motor and strip it out for servicing / motor replacement. But other than that I’m very pleased to have the S Class road legal and ready to enjoy.... well almost.
    Last edited by JC220; 04-15-2018 at 01:13 AM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  36. #979
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    It wasn’t all plain sailing though. I bought this car recently and have never driven it due to not being road legal for years – it was trailered home. As soon as I got it on the road it was apparent there was a total lack of power and it was running on 4 cylinders it seems Amazingly it behaved itself in the test centre hall – but on the road it wasn’t good at all. I think a coil pack is out possibly but I’ll diagnose it in a few days starting with new spark plugs (Since I do not know what is currently in there)
    Well, looks like I found the S280’s misfire problem. There was some water in the spark plug hole / recess of cylinder 2. Going by the rust on the plug it’s been wet in there for a quite some time. The Spark plugs themselves look old from above – possibly original. So it MIGHT be a simple fix of installing new Bosch F8DC4 spark plugs gapped to 1mm and replacing the coil m104 pack plug boots with good used / updated Beru m104 boots I have 'on the shelf'

    20180416_211959.jpg 20180416_212012.jpg

    1st picture shows the moisture at the end of the spark plug boot to cylinder 2 when removed (in the centre)

    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  38. #980
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The M104 gods are not happy.... the S280 still ain’t running right. I cleaned out the plug wells of debris, fitted new Bosch F8DC4’s gapped at 1mm and tested the ignition wires – all showing 2k ohm. The old plugs looked normal in colour with no oil, carbon build up or anything out of the ordinary. Coolant is at the correct level and not contaminated with Oil.

    Initially I re-fitted the original coil packs and on start up it was still running rough and not wanting to rev. So I swapped in 3x spare M104 coil packs (From the spare engine I bought a few months back). And it’s still doing the same misfiring type thing. I cannot blink read for codes nor can I use HFM scan as it is not compatible with the S280. My Star setup is awol for at least another week.

    It is a 1997 with no Eco Junk and 44k miles. I also tested the Fuel Pressure and it appears normal at 45 – 55 PSI depending on the vacuum when blipping the throttle. On disconnecting the MAF it runs way worse! So that would suggest to me the MAF is doing something right.....Without the ability to get codes from it at present this is frustrating.

    Have any members got any wisdom to share of what else I might check to diagnose this running problem?




    On top of that my 300E-24 literally just decided to shit another MAS relay (It’s done that before years ago) I knew the symptoms right away of the fuel pump kicking in and out so I jumpered the pumps to get it moved. It’s for MOT This Saturday so I may take the 500E instead and let it sit until I get the S280 diagnosed.



    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    This is a video of the fuel pressure when running.



    And the photo is the fuel gauge reading immediately after shutdown.

    20180417_203532.jpg

    I may do a compression test tomorrow night also


    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    The M104 gods are not happy.... the S280 still ain’t running right. I cleaned out the plug wells of debris, fitted new Bosch F8DC4’s gapped at 1mm and tested the ignition wires – all showing 2k ohm. The old plugs looked normal in colour with no oil, carbon build up or anything out of the ordinary. Coolant is at the correct level and not contaminated with Oil.

    Initially I re-fitted the original coil packs and on start up it was still running rough and not wanting to rev. So I swapped in 3x spare M104 coil packs (From the spare engine I bought a few months back). And it’s still doing the same misfiring type thing. I cannot blink read for codes nor can I use HFM scan as it is not compatible with the S280. My Star setup is awol for at least another week.

    It is a 1997 with no Eco Junk and 44k miles. I also tested the Fuel Pressure and it appears normal at 45 – 55 PSI depending on the vacuum when blipping the throttle. On disconnecting the MAF it runs way worse! So that would suggest to me the MAF is doing something right.....Without the ability to get codes from it at present this is frustrating.

    Have any members got any wisdom to share of what else I might check to diagnose this running problem?




    On top of that my 300E-24 literally just decided to shit another MAS relay (It’s done that before years ago) I knew the symptoms right away of the fuel pump kicking in and out so I jumpered the pumps to get it moved. It’s for MOT This Saturday so I may take the 500E instead and let it sit until I get the S280 diagnosed.



    Well – the S280’s fixed! I got home from work and fitted the new MAF and all the problems were gone in an instant. Took it for it’s first proper drive in my ownership and the car’s for years and all is perfect. Not a rattle or squeak anywhere just super smooth motoring at it’s finest. It’s not the fasted thing in the world but gets along AOK for me. The M104 and 722.6 transmission are a great combo.


    I did also get to check the trans fluid level (RE that weird transmission noise I reported before) and it was overfilled by quite a bit by the PO. Approx 1 – 1.5 Litres. I vacuumed the excess fluid out and corrected the level. So now to drive it some more and see how the transmission behaves – hopefully the weird noise was related to the overfilled transmission fluid.

    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Good to hear the MAF was the issue. I just saw your updates to the thread and was going to suggest that. Always good to have a few spares from the wrecker's on hand, as well as a few spare coil packs.

    How is the health of the ETA, BTW?

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    That's a 96-up vehicle, IIRC, so the ETA and wiring should all be AOK.

    AFAIK, the biodegradable (aka "soy", as Blair calls it, lol) insulation was primarily an issue on all models with LH injection, and 1992-1995 USA model years with HFM injection. ME injection and 96-up HFM should be immune - at least for the engine components / engine compartment.


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Good to hear the MAF was the issue. I just saw your updates to the thread and was going to suggest that. Always good to have a few spares from the wrecker's on hand, as well as a few spare coil packs.

    How is the health of the ETA, BTW?
    Thanks Gerry. Yes I do have a couple spare m104 MAF’s but the plug connector on the w140 M104 MAF is different. I have ordered a second new w140 MAF to keep in the trunk spare – “Just in case”. I did already order 3x new coil boots so I’ll fit them in the S280 anyway when they turn up.

    The car is a 1997 build so thankfully it has no Eco Junk. Well.... – as Klink told me apart from the power folding wing mirrors and one part of the A/C harness. I have already re-wired both power mirrors and I’ll hunt out the other loom too. Just covered about 130 miles in it tonight and it all good. Cruise control and all that stuff working properly. It drives and feels like a new car. Even the indicator stalk and cruise stalks for example have a fuzzy feeling plastic “newness” to them still There are 2x issues left to address now at present. The windscreen wiper desperately needs taken apart and re-lubed as it’s painfully slow due to dis- use. And secondly the gear shifter is a bit all over the place in terms of accuracy of selection. I think the shifter bushings are gone or something like that so I’ll investigate that next.

    Then the 300E-24 is in the sick bay now with the failed MAS relay. Need to find another relay or have this one repaired and get it prepped for MOT next then the 500E – which should need nothing at all. Then after that its back to the 320CE restoration work!
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Well – my joy of getting it on the road again was short lived. I just ate the front main seal between the transmission and it’s transmission bellhousing. ATF is positively gushing out of there. The PO had mentioned new seals in the transmission – I bet they did something wrong. Perhaps the root of the weird noises too.


    So it’s off the road again and I’ll have to pull the transmission now. FML. Appears ti be the exact same issue as the thread below


    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...leak-bell.html


    Yep it’s very depressing & discouraging for this to happen right off the hop so to speak. But I’ll fix it and likely fit new bushings inside the trans too even though the low miles. When it’s out may as well do it so to speak. I’m thinking of pulling the trans from below and leaving the engine in place.... looks like there is a little more room to play with on the w140 chassis to get at the bolts. But as per usual the top trans bolts at the bellhousing look like a pain. A real shame to have to embark on this job now too.

    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Just think how good it will feel when its all minty in there tho.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Funny thing is It’s already squeaky clean around the transmission underneath. Almost like it’s been rebuilt before or something.... I know someone had replaced seals on it before in a few years back. It’s likely this is a bushing or pump failure of some sort to allow the play at the front main seal which is allowing fluid to gush out.

    I may well be rebuilding the trans myself. Possibly having the internals machined to accept a later type bearing at the K2 bushing in the process and checking the whole thing over. I hope it won’t require too much more than that but whatever it needs it will get. Fingers crossed nothing is majorly damaged in there. Keeping the original trans on this car would be important to me.

    However, before fully embarking on rebuilding it myself I will also first explore finding a good transmission rebuilders in the UK who I could ship my box too for them to test / inspect / rebuild. Somewhere like this looks reasonable enough cost:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-...Y/323213232460


    They would need to agree to repair / rebuild my original transmission as I do not want to lose it. IMO all cars should stay numbers matching even if just a lowly S280


    Last edited by JC220; 04-21-2018 at 04:31 AM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    OK so I spoke to that transmission rebuilder just now. They said they can repair my original transmission no problem. What they do as a mandatory minimum service is:

    Full strip down
    Test all solenoids & Conductor plate etc

    Torque converter is cut open, reconditioned and fully rebuilt (He said no point in even testing a TC when it’s already out – just do it)

    And all new bearings / friction linings.


    The above service is around £700 GBP cost. He said if the conductor plate is faulty or there is other major damage inside it could cost up to £1400 total to leave it re-conditioned.
    12 month / 12,00 miles warranty on the box. What do you guys think? Don’t mess with it and send it off?
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    OK so I spoke to that transmission rebuilder just now. They said they can repair my original transmission no problem. What they do as a mandatory minimum service is:

    Full strip down
    Test all solenoids & Conductor plate etc

    Torque converter is cut open, reconditioned and fully rebuilt (He said no point in even testing a TC when it’s already out – just do it)

    And all new bearings / friction linings.


    The above service is around £700 GBP cost. He said if the conductor plate is faulty or there is other major damage inside it could cost up to £1400 total to leave it re-conditioned.
    12 month / 12,00 miles warranty on the box. What do you guys think? Don’t mess with it and send it off?
    My trans was removed and the complete system was replaced with MB parts, and flex disk/carrier bush and rear seal. $1400 for the rebuild and another $1200 or so for removal and install, fluids and other consumables.
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The trans isn't difficult to drop. I documented it in a thread on the topic of M104 Trans R&R, if you search.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thanks Gerry. I looked up your W124 trans removal R&R thread – nice work. I agree on addressing such items as the rear oil seal and trans blanket, flex disc whilst in there. I really do not want to remove the exhaust if I can help it. It’s in good condition so no need or benefit in removing it. The w140 chassis has a little more room to play with VS a w124 it seems. I found this DIY also on the subject where they left the exhaust in place:

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...m104_s320.html

    Regarding my own transmission I have been researching 722.6 issues / rebuilds all weekend. More questions and my quest is detailed in this thread. I expect to find a pretty major issue with the oil pump / Torque Converter shaft area in my transmission. Given that the noises I was hearing occurred in Park / Neutral the Oil pump is the only item turning inside so the noise must have been coming from it. It’s now pouring ATF out of the front seal so the oil pump bearing must be damaged.

    I will know for sure only when I have it removed and opened I guess. The plan is to upgrade existing bearing shells to later roller bearings where I can, fit a steel pump plate and all new friction linings etc. And fit a reconditioned TC. Possibly a new conductor plate too when I’m in there. Needless to say I’ve a big task ahead. I will document the transmission rebuild should I take it on myself – which is my plan currently. I know how to keep organized and keep things clean + do my homework. I have copies of the factory service manuals too for the 722.6 which make things very clear and I will follow to the letter.

    The only area which is a little unclear for me is - will the m104 sit OK just on it's engine mounts? Or do you have to use wood or similar to chock it in place from tilting too much? I note you also ran your motor to test the rear oil seal. I may well do that too.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by JC220 View Post
    The only area which is a little unclear for me is - will the m104 sit OK just on it's engine mounts? Or do you have to use wood or similar to chock it in place from tilting too much? I note you also ran your motor to test the rear oil seal. I may well do that too.
    I didn't do anything to the motor when I removed the transmission, as far as stabilization/tilting. It did tilt slightly, but not that much and not enough that it worried me. I think the motor mounts are stout enough to hold everything in place.

    Just be warned about the loud-ness of the engine if you start it up with the exhaust not attached. It's surprisingly loud !! Ear protection is a good thing. I did not run it for long -- perhaps only a few seconds. I think I started it up a couple of different times, on successive days/nights.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    By the way, it's really not that big of a deal to remove the exhaust. Particularly so on a W140 ... I'd think there would be plenty of room under there to work -- much moreso than with a W124. I took the opportunity to purchase new exhaust bolts. It's a good idea to soak the existing bolts in PB Blaster, Kroil or equivalent overnight before removing. But, it's not nearly the evil task that must be avoided. In reality, removing the exhaust gives a lot more room and freedom to work.

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Thanks for the tips Gerry. Yes I’ll see about the exhaust when I get under there. As we know the w140 is a great big heavy car and If I perish – who will finish it?! So I’m holding off starting until my new pair of higher ramps get here. Likely to be 7 - 10 days as they are coming from Germany. They lift up to 375mm high max so that should be enough at the front and maybe drive the rear wheels onto a couple planks of wood at the same time. I do not fancy the idea of the w140 sitting that high on jack stands. I would like decent room to crawl under and extract the trans, hopefully 375mm ramps are enough. The underbelly will be approx 2ft off the ground at the front wheels.

    s-l1600.jpg

    I wish I was one of the fancy pants members with a 2x post lift



    Last edited by JC220; 04-23-2018 at 01:32 PM.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    It's been a busy couple of days for me working on the w140. I got the transmission out- haven't pried out the oil seal yet. I want to clean the outside of the casing before starting to strip it down.

    Some observations so far;

    The ATF was red and reasonably clean. No signs of metal in the fluid or anything like that. Still need to drop the pan.

    The TC does not move around inside and again looks clean. The nose of it has some marks at the oil pump section but the bearing / oil seal area looks serviceable with no scores or gouges.

    The oil seal almost looks incorrect - like the diameter is larger than the copper bushing. And there was an edge sticking out. I cannot be sure I did not cause this on removal but it feels like the recent people working on it might have did that when putting it back together. Which would certainly explain ATF pouring out!

    The copper bearing shell is cracked in a few places from what I can see. I'll know more when I pry the oil seal out. But in any event I will be fitting the upgrade pump and K2 assembly.

    20180428_202400.jpg20180428_202632.jpg20180428_202648.jpg20180428_202654.jpg
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Curiosity killed the cat..... I used a rag to protect the shaft and pried out the old oil seal. It’s spun the oil pump bushing big time



    THIS is why ATF is pouring out – the oil seal has that bulge in it due to the sheer amount of oil pumping out past it

    So my oil pump + TC is toast and so is the bell housing I’d guess. On reading up I think any level of scoring on the TC nose is unacceptable so I'll see if mine can be reconditioned by a TC specialist. nEW Steel pump plate and later needle roller bearing pump are on their way. I did buy the NOS complete mb drum K2 assembly which has the needle roller bearing upgrade also. My dealer quoted over £600 for it..... I found one in England and got it for £120 – score!


    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The S280 trans was opened tonight. I cleaned the casing spotless and then started taking it apart tonight very carefully and in a clean environment. Each part is removed and set into a clean plastic bucket with lid.

    20180430_200346.jpg 20180430_200400.jpg 20180430_201812.jpg 20180430_201820.jpg 20180430_203215.jpg

    20180430_203221.jpg 20180430_204606.jpg 20180430_204653.jpg 20180430_204702.jpg 20180430_204921.jpg

    20180430_204930.jpg 20180430_205054.jpg 20180430_205144.jpg 20180430_205216.jpg 20180430_205227.jpg

    20180430_205246.jpg 20180430_205255.jpg

    I guess this is where the low miles are showing the advantages! What I am seeing inside is no metal in the pan at all except from a washyness at the very bottom in a thin slimy layer. And some on top of the VB which will be stripped and cleaned. All bearings are perfect/ intact as is the K2 bush. The clutch packs appear full in their races with little to no wear and there are no weird marks on anything.
    The conductor plate does have a faulty speed sensor too. I'm thinking now of leaving this thing well enough alone in terms of frictions / bearings. Replace the conductor plate, updated F1 Sprag, all rubber O rings, TC with hardened snout, upgrade oil pump + steel plate, upgrade K2 drum with roller bearing (and the associated other parts requred for that upgrade), any updated valve body spring kits and other odds and ends required to put it back together.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    The long wait for transmission parts for my S280 is still ongoing... I also realised I forgot to order a second updated Sprag bearing from MB so they won’t open again until Tuesday when I can order it then up to 7 – 10 days from Germany. Sigh......... Anyway a small titbit of info for any who might be interested in 722.6 transmission stuff.

    The “new” 24k mile 722.9 oil pump arrived from USA and its in great condition. There are some little design updates besides just the bearing. These are pics of my original pump (Badly scored and the copper bushing spun– now scrap)

    20180506_111336.jpg 20180506_111359.jpg 20180506_111401.jpg 20180506_111439.jpg

    This is the later pump pics for comparison. Note the inner housing has an extra channel cut into it. And the rear of the main rotor has small groves – I guess for gear lubrication. The roller bearing is an INA item. This pump will be cleaned, a new seal pressed in and lightly oil / greased with the blue goop before going back in. Steel plate will be fitted onto my original bellhousing which is scored too.

    20180506_111517.jpg 20180506_111542.jpg 20180506_111545.jpg 20180506_111727.jpg 20180506_111732.jpg

    The new K2 drum is obtained and a perfect match and I splashed out on a new input shaft / planetary assembly to match. I couldn’t help myself!
    Just the 3x parts below retail about $1600 USD locally from my dealer....

    Old K2 Design – with copper bushing (which is notorious for failing):

    20180506_114525.jpg


    New latest K2 Drum with roller bearing and the matching input shaft and piston:

    20180506_114502.jpg 20180506_114451.jpg 20180506_114543.jpg nEW SHAFT.jpg


    It’s also getting the latest conductor plate new genuine MB and the latest Pilot bushing. New genuine seal kit and alot of other new parts yet to arrive.

    20180503_190106.jpg 20180503_190128.jpg


    My original TC was scored as the bushing failed. I could not find ANY UK Torque converter rebuilders who could fit a hardened hub / snout onto my TC when rebuilding it. So I had to order one to be rebuilt for me in the USA and pay the core charge. They said they would do it “Heavy Duty” for me with a new hardened hub and found the exact match PN core for me. These were the pics they sent me before it was dispatched

    s-l1600.jpg s-l16010.jpg s-l16020.jpg



    I want to use loctite of some sort when putting the trans bolts back in. Such as the old pump bolts. Can anyone recommend a quality loctite for this application?




    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Great photos, thanks for sharing! For the Loctite, I would use normal "blue" threadlock. I like the Permatex Gel because it's easier to work with.


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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Great photos, thanks for sharing! For the Loctite, I would use normal "blue" threadlock. I like the Permatex Gel because it's easier to work with.

    No problem, and thanks for that. I'll post more pics of the other parts when they get here and how it goes back together.

    Looking forward to having it buttoned up and driving again!

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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    So the S Class is alive again and driving post DIY gearbox rebuild + update. The pictures attached show some more progress and updated parts that I installed. I also got the VB cleaned, tested the solenoid resistances (all good) fitted new seals, updated shift spring and got the trans back together on the bench.

    20180517_212812.jpg 20180517_194418.jpg 20180518_192522.jpg 20180520_123906.jpg 20180520_123915.jpg

    20180520_164049.jpg 20180520_155447.jpg 20180520_170546.jpg 20180518_201356.jpg

    The rear engine Oil seal and carrier was also replaced. Turns out someone already did that too the last time! So the seal was only a couple years old and likely did 500miles..... aw well. Got a new Febi flex disc which was OE SGF, the original was still visually OK but change it while it’s out as it’s a PITA to do again.

    Fuchs Titan 3353 is the ATF I used - I've used in 722.6's before with noticeable improvements. The very weird shift flares are all gone too and it is driving perfectly – shifting perfect. Indeed the shifts are smooth now you almost have to watch the engine speed tachometer to see it shifting.

    I do think there is still an issue electrically possibly with the gear shifter. Sometimes it doesn't light up when selecting R / N / D and D can hang onto the gear as if in limo mode unless I nudge it into "4" and it behaves impeccably. So I'll try to get another good used shifter gate or whatever it's called but for now it's easy to just select 4.

    I took it today and got the underbody steam cleaned to remove the ATF when the trans seal let go before. So now it’s being pressed into service as a weekend driver. I will be getting the A/C serviced this week too as it does still function OK but has very little gas charge left likely due to total lack of activity for years. People are very complimentary on the old S – everywhere I go people ask about it and really like it. A W140 is certainly rare around here - I never see another on the road at all. In the car wash today even the young guys working there loved it- kept saying how clean it was and were amazed at the double glazing etc! They asked was it armoured too

    20180526_134433.jpg


    There is also another w124 of mine on the road again – the 300E-24 after 5 years. I’ll post pics and details of it soon just very glad to have 2x classics functioning as they should...... the 500E is next to get dusted off and presented for inspection. It's nice to catch up on these cars and enjoy using them. But the E36 + 320CE builds will resume again in a couple weeks I really want at least one more to emerge restored from the garage next spring - likely to be the 320CE first.
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  78. #1003
    E500E Guru a777fan's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Labour of love there sir! Keep it up as I am loving the updates on ‘the fleet’.

    :salute:


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  80. #1004
    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by a777fan View Post
    Labour of love there sir! Keep it up as I am loving the updates on ‘the fleet’.

    :salute:
    Thanks and I’m glad you like the updates!

    This is another W124 of mine. A 1990 300E-24 Almandine Red with . It has been 5 years since I last had this one registered for the road (Time flies by eh!!) It's been dry stored since then and fluids changed. So it was time to get it through it’s annual inspection which it passed needing next to nothing done to it. It's had everything done to it some years back, full engine stripdown + HG replacement, underbody restored etc so mechanically it's perfect akin to a spring chicken with the hone marks still on all cylinders.

    20180519_184735.jpg 20180519_184740.jpg 20180519_184745.jpg 20180519_184801.jpg 20180519_184807.jpg

    20180519_184814.jpg 20180519_184819.jpg 20180519_184829.jpg 20180519_184846.jpg 20180519_184903.jpg

    It’s a very clean car but I have some maintenance and upgrade planed for it this year. That is:


    • Finish touching in the paint around the door jambs
    • Re-dye the leather steering wheel or fit a Sportline item instead (If anyone has one with the airbag and going cheap / in need of restoration please PM me)
    • Fit the new beige ribtex carpets I have
    • Find and fit a period correct stereo
    • Diagnose a large/ high RPM shift flare it has developed going into a higher gear
    • Polish all interior wood and replace a few items
    • Replace a cracked seat trim on the driver's seat (Which I finally located a replacement for after many years of searching!)
    • Add a centre roll top storage box I have for it and maybe a flip top armrest if I can find one on the interwebs in any colour which again I will restore / dye
    • Replace the sunroof mech due to catastrophic failure of the lift arms. There is a decent enough DIY someone did on here so I think I'll follow that


    But other than that it’s just nice to be able to drive it again and put some miles on it! The 500E is being dragged out this coming weekend and booked in for inspection also ASAP
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1987 w124 200 - 3.6 AMG build | 1990 w124 300E-24 | 1992 w124 500E

    1994 320CE Sportline | 1997 w140 S280 | 2007 w211 E220CDI

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  82. #1005
    postwhore posterchild Klink's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Just scanned this thread quickly. It's been a while. Killer busy as always.

    Some notes:

    Billions and billions of Benz techs put no grease in the front hub caps. They get sick of addressing the grease leaks. I've seen it a thousand times and never seen the slightest ill effect from it. I put a little grease in them myself, but only about a third of what it calls for.

    Regarding the 722.6 tranny parts, all those extra roller bearings, sprag clutch rollers, roller bearing in the front pump, etc. were the V12 version parts for most of the production period. Back in the day at 722.6 schools, we were told that leaving them out was a great friction reduction for DIN fuel economy, CAFE, emissions, etc. I'm sure they were cheaper, too... They also told us that since after the new vehicle sale, the compliance nit picking wouldn't be a problem, so they were just going to supply the heavy-duty parts as replacements so that they could stock one to fit all...
    Putting the fun in dysfunction...

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  84. #1006
    E500E Guru JC220's Avatar
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    Re: OWNER - JC220

    Quote Originally Posted by Klink View Post
    Regarding the 722.6 tranny parts, all those extra roller bearings, sprag clutch rollers, roller bearing in the front pump, etc. were the V12 version parts for most of the production period. Back in the day at 722.6 schools, we were told that leaving them out was a great friction reduction for DIN fuel economy, CAFE, emissions, etc. I'm sure they were cheaper, too... They also told us that since after the new vehicle sale, the compliance nit picking wouldn't be a problem, so they were just going to supply the heavy-duty parts as replacements so that they could stock one to fit all...
    My understanding differs Klink! For these reasons;

    All versions of the first 2x production years approx of the 722.6 transmissions all had the K2 bushings - the needle bearing was not available at all (No difference between models including 6, V8’s & V12’s) All later versions 722.6 years 1999+ got the roller bearing F2. The early bushing style K2 are known failures and people either swap in a later used transmission complete or swap the parts in to their original trans when finding this failure since usually the planetary gears will be severely damaged also.

    K2 .jpg K2 2 .jpg

    The needle roller Oil pump is a 722.9 part which again was not available at the time of early 722.6 production. The Oil Pump bushing spinning in the 722.6 pump does happen and perhaps this is why the change was made in EPC – or general parts substitution which we see quite often; but I do see the advantages of this 722.9 pump VS the bushing original which was the failure in my 44k transmission. This is also a snippet about the 722.9 pump change to the oil gallery shape:

    722.6 722.9 oil pump.jpg

    The Sprag bearings are well known failures also causing loss of drive – in particular the original / early versions with less sprag count. It is very ill advised to re-install the early low count F1 + F2 sprags and they are long since gone / replaced. The early version sprag was updated to include a higher sprag count as shown in the 2009 ATSG manual. But this part has changed again since then to include a plastic housing which is much more solid in design - the manual does not have that detail as it is a later parts than it was produced.

    SPRAG.jpg

    IMO the early 722.6 transmissions are flawed in these areas and if removed for any reason these parts should be upgraded to avoid having to pull it all apart again. From researching these issues for many hours and rebuilding my own transmission I fully understand all of these later parts and the advantages they offer.