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Thread: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

  1. #61
    Senior Member jaymanek's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    thats will be if its totally empty? I add some every year when I service the truck.

  2. #62
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Correct. That's a fillup from empty. If you're not losing a lot out of the swivel balls, then you probably don't need to add much.

    Some folks in the past have used RedLine red grease, but it has proven to be very watery and thin for the application (though I'm sure an excellent grease). The Fuchs RenoLit is very difficult to get in the US, but it can be had if you know where to look. It's good stuff, and if you buy it in the Fuchs grease gun cartridges, it's much cheaper than if you get the MB-branded Fuchs.

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  4. #63

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Newby here. I actually found this forum thru this thread.............. you guys are a breath of fresh air compared to where im used to lurking.

    So I was wondering, with the MB "Silikonpaste" now NLA, has a worthy replacement been confirmed? Or in the alternative, what is the chance one of you guys has access to the MSDS/SDS sheet on the stuff. We might just get lucky and find the true manufacturers product name on there.

    I have a squeaking second row console lid on my W251 and a creaking top on my r171 that are both crying for that stuff. I stand ready for a beat down for not owning a W124.
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 02-16-2018 at 09:28 PM. Reason: clarification

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  6. #64
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    I bought the eco silicone spray for wetsuits. I have not used it yet.
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  7. #65

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    I saw the post from samiam44 on that but was wondering about applying in confined areas considering the stuff is aerosol

  8. #66
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Pump
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1994 E500
    249/275 - 8F19 or 8F32 or 8320

    1991 560 SEC
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  9. #67

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Found some of the Silikon Paste at a stealership in Tx! I got all excited...

    ...until they told me not only did they want $115 for it but they won't ship it because they called it "hazardous materials."

    As much as I like the Lone Star state, I'm not driving from Florida for it. Hateful.

    No progress on the MSDS sheet either... I'm not one to give up easily but this is ridiculous.

  10. #68
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Let someone here on the forum know where in Texas, I'm sure they would pick it up for you and send it to you.

    When it was available, the last listed list price was $72, discounted to around $55.

  11. #69

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Last ditch effort to avoid dumping over a C note on 3.5 oz of "Wunderpaste."

    After a bit righteous finagling I was able to secure the MSDS sheet for this mystery jiz. Turns out it is a simple mix of Silicone oil with Lithium soap (which is apparently a fancy way of saying white lithium grease) as a thickener. Google searching these two terms brought me to a couple of product that has similar contents. One might actually be superior (if that's even possible) as it also contains molybdenum.

    The product is MicroLubrol M-77. Two oz is $12. Apparently it contains over 60% molybdenum disulfide lubricating solids in a lithium soap thickened ultra-high performance silicone fluid.

    http://www.microlubrol.com/MicroLubr...2-oz-57-g.aspx

    APPLICATIONS:
    - A running-in lubricant for new or rebuilt equipment including gears, splines, journal bearings, cams and ways.
    - An assembly lubricant to reduce torque in fastening and unfastening of threads and bolts, minimize tension variation in bolts, facilitate assembly and disassembly and help prevent damage to threads.
    - Press-fitting lubricant to allow press fitting without chatter or stick-slip that reduces the fit force pressure required for interference fitting and minimizes distortion.
    - General-purpose lubricant for bearing shafts, bushings, splines, O-rings, packings and seals (except silicone rubber).
    - Assembly applications where high temperature is a factor.
    - Lubricating during running-in of gears, splines, journal bearings, cams; reducing torque in tightening threads and bolts; lubricating bearing shafts, O-rings, packings and seals, brake assemblies; press-fitting. - Metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates, and the brake pistons of disc brakes.
    - Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils.
    - Paste lubrication up to 230ºC (446ºF). Dry lubrication up to 400ºC (750ºF).
    - Good water resistance. Good volatilization properties.

    SAME INGREDIENTS AND PROPERTIES AS DOW CORNING® MOLYKOTE® M-77:
    - Over 60% Molybdenum disulphide, CAS# 1317-33-5
    - Dimethyl, phenylmethyl siloxane, trimethyl terminated, CAS# 63148-52-7
    - 12-Hydroxy lithium stearate, CAS# 7620-77-1
    - Same black-grey color

    MicroLubrol also sells a product called Ultimox, an ultra-high quality PFPE/PTFE grease formulated with fully synthetic highly fluorinated perfluoropolyether oil and micronized polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) with the same uses as Krytox GPL-205 and GPL-206.

    APPLICATIONS:
    - Eliminates squeaks, judder and sticking of rubber seals and weather-stripping in convertible tops, trunks, hatches and doors.
    - Eliminates squeaks, rattles and other noise due to vibration and rubbing of rubber and leather, plastic and rubber, and metal and plastic/rubber parts including console parts, facia and trim panels, seats.
    - Lubricates spark plug boots.
    - Side view mirror mechanisms.
    - Windshield wiper mechanisms.
    - O-ring seals

    http://www.microlubrol.com/MicroLubr...ease-20-g.aspx

    They also sell a comparable product to the 1 oz Krytox GPL-105 ($35) that Merc somehow gets $60 for by assigning pn# 000-989-36-60 and calling it Spezial-Gleitmittel Fluid. This is the mystery fluid Merc has you put sparingly on your sunroof mechanism along with the Gleitpaste and on creaking roof/door seals. MicroLubrol calls it simply ATD Auto Top & Door Rubber Seal Lubricant Oil and gets $27 for it.

    http://www.microlubrol.com/MicroLubr...0-ml-57-g.aspx

    APPLICATIONS:
    - Retractable convertible roof top rubber seals
    - Sliding convertible roof top rubber seals
    - CSC (Coupe/Sunroof/Convertible) retractable/sliding roofs
    - Sunroof and moonroof rubber seals
    - Door rubber seals
    - Power window rubber seals
    - Hatch and trunk rubber seals


    Wuerth, a German based manufacturer also sells a Polydimethylsiloxane based silicone grease in an aerosol but they don't disclose if what is being used to thicken it is mineral or lithium based.

    I'm open to consider any factually based comments or even personal biased opinions of no actual worth on this subject. With more and more annoying little squeaks from my second row console lid on my R class and the creaks from rubber seals of the Vario roof flexing around on my SLK I have to settle on a solution...

    AAAArgh! I'm almost annoyed enough to work thru getting the stuff in Texas.

    And if anyone was wondering, I also got the MSDS for Gleitpaste. It is a completely different product consisting of mineral oil, synthetic hydrocarbon oil, and special lithium soap. Since this stuff can be purchased a few oz at a time for under $20, there isn't really much sense trying to track down who makes it.
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 03-01-2018 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Very complete research! Very interesting!

    However, is it not proper only & exclusively to use MB-branded "mystery jiz" on our cars ?!?


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  15. #71
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    I found that very interesting. Thanks.

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  17. #72

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Is it not proper only & exclusively to use MB-branded "mystery jiz" on our cars ?!?
    When High Command went AWOL with this stuff, us ground pounders were just left to our own devices...

    So it looks like I may have found the actual Mercedes Silikon Paste product. Clearly I have nothing more pressing in my life but to research discontinued Mercedes lubricants. Damn the bills, this is far more urgent.

    Unlike the MicroLubrol M-77 product I found yesterday that contains a hefty percentage of molybdenum disulphide in addition to the silicone oil and lithium soap (and is black/grey in color), I found two products today that look much more promising. TDS on them list the only ingredients as silicone oil and lithium soap. And both show it as lightish brown in color, same as the Merc product. So I'm presuming another match there.

    The first is Calsil Grease 55 marketed by a company in The Netherlands called Caldic BV under their Calsil brand. The TDS shows it contains Polysiloxane methylphenyl fluid (silicone oil) with lithium soap, so that matches Merc's MSDS product composition description of a mixture of silicone oil and lithium soap. However the Calsil brand was launched by Caldic in 2013. That's not to say they weren't manufacturing it before then under the Calsil brand, just something to throw a curve at the research.

    The other is from Elkem Silicones, a company out of Norway owned by BlueStar Silicones (ChemChina) with manufacturing locations all over Europe. They call it Bluesil GRS 55.

    Both of these appear (based on the similarities of each of the products TDS sheets) to be the same or very close to the same product, just like the the last two Lubrizol products I found yesterday were basically knock offs of Dupont's Krytox GPL 105 & 205 .

    So with any luck, one of these is Merc's "Silikonpaste." Both of these companies appear to have stateside headquarters and have the products available in 100g tubes. But neither appear to be easy to source (not available from Amazon, etc...) as this stuff is primarily used in aerospace. So it's quite possible I'm digging myself into another rabbit hole.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6-ES3DMJg4

    Calling the USA phone numbers on Monday...
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 03-02-2018 at 02:22 PM.

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  19. #73

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    There is a 3M Silicone Paste that retails for under $25 a container....
    http://www.amazon.com/3M-08946-Clear...dp/B005RNEH5O/

    Trust me, it's not the same as the MB stuff....
    From the 3m Silicone Paste MSDS, it sure isn't:

    Ingredient / C.A.S. No. / % by Wt
    POLY(DIMETHYLSILOXANE) / 63148-62-9 / 60% - 100%
    SYNTHETIC AMORPHOUS SILICA, FUMED, CRYSTALLINE FREE / 112945-52-5 / < 10%
    DIMETHYL SILOXANE, REACTION PRODUCT WITH SILICA / 67762-90-7 / < 10%

    The 3m product is just a blend of silica and Poly DimethylSiloxane (silicone). No mention of Lithium soap as contained in Merc's Silikonpaste.


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  21. #74

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Found a consistency chart to help lead me closer to a product match. As I don't have any of the actual Silikon Paste product, can anyone who does let me know if the consistency is rated at 1, 2 or 3? I am presuming a 1 would be like a white lithium grease in a tube. A snapshot of the actual color of the product would be helpful as well.

    NLGI number ASTM worked (60 strokes)
    penetration at 25 °C
    tenths of a millimetre
    Appearance Consistency food analog
    000 445-475 fluid cooking oil
    00 400-430 semi-fluid apple sauce
    355-385 very soft brown mustard
    1 310-340 soft tomato paste
    2 265-295 "normal" grease peanut butter
    3 220-250 firm vegetable shortening
    4 175-205 very firm frozen yogurt
    5 130-160 hard smooth pate
    6 85-115 very hard cheddar cheese

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  23. #75
    E500E Guru nocfn's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    which texas dealer - PM me and perhaps our tentacles can get some traction...
    1994 E500
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    1991 560 SEC
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  24. #76

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Shout out to NOCFN for the help in Tx.

    Called the Blue Sil distributor here in Florida and had to email the Calsil folks since they only have a North American office in the great white North (Canada). Both have the product available in Europe in 100g tubes for $50-$60. Let's see if that translates into only being able to get 18kg pails on this side of the pond...

    If someone could snap a photo of what the Merc "Silikonpaste" product looks like, that would be helpful to identify if the replacement is actually similar.
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 03-07-2018 at 07:34 AM. Reason: clarification

  25. #77
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    That's a great research, really interesting!
    I can look for the Bluesil GRS 55 originally from Elkem Silicons here in Norway.
    Arnt
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  27. #78

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by geraniumtr View Post
    Guys: How about this NAPA product--Sil-Glyde. Part BK 7651351. I used it when installing new rear wheel carrier joints.

    Regards,

    Peter Weissman
    Just a short note on Sil (Syl)-glide. AGS is the manufacture for Napa who also sells the product under the same name.

    It's composition turns out to be Vegetable (Castor) Oil with a Diethyl phthalate thickening plastisizer and N-Phenyl-1-naphthylamine as an anti-oxidizer. Despite it's name inference, there is no silicone in it.

    While its a great product, I would suspect castor oil wouldn't be that great of a substitute for Silikonpaste.

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    This thread is so technical and riveting, I'm tempted to create a whole sub-forum on chemical and MSDS analysis of MB lubricants.

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  31. #80

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    This thread is so technical and riveting, I'm tempted to create a whole sub-forum on chemical and MSDS analysis of MB lubricants.
    When one begins searching for the Holy Grail, the possibilities become endless...

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  33. #81
    Senior Member S500E's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by Lioninstreet View Post
    When one begins searching for the Holy Grail, the possibilities become endless...
    picture of the wonder paste content attached upon request

    what is the method of choice when applying this paste? brush(what kind)? finger? q-tips?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  35. #82
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    There are two MB "pastes" that have a special place in my heart.

    The first is the now-infamous MB "Gleitpaste" - the 'sliding paste' for the sunroof mechanism. The large can in the photos below is "da Gleit..." part number 001-989-46-51.
    Thank you. Ordered from local dealer. I think it was $78.

    Last W124 sunroof internal parts got mangled, and roof remained closed for last couple years. Really want to avoid that happening again.

    In this page from Kent's Mercedes Source, he recommends applying with both a curved tip syringe and an acid brush to spread grease out in the tracks.
    https://mercedessource.com/store/sun...and-pad-grease

    Any thoughts on this?

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenstevensteven View Post
    Thank you. Ordered from local dealer. I think it was $78.

    Last W124 sunroof internal parts got mangled, and roof remained closed for last couple years. Really want to avoid that happening again.

    In this page from Kent's Mercedes Source, he recommends applying with both a curved tip syringe and an acid brush to spread grease out in the tracks.
    https://mercedessource.com/store/sun...and-pad-grease

    Any thoughts on this?
    Well, GSXR’s Uncle Kent uses and sells Meyle and Febi parts, billing them as top quality.

    So you have to take what he says and does with a grain of salt.

  37. #84
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Well, GSXR’s Uncle Kent uses and sells Meyle and Febi parts, billing them as top quality.

    So you have to take what he says and does with a grain of salt.
    Ok, thanks for that. What do you recommend I use to apply the Gleitpaste to the sunroof rails?

  38. #85
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Well, GSXR’s Uncle Kent uses and sells Meyle and Febi parts, billing them as top quality.

    So you have to take what he says and does with a grain of salt.
    That explains a lot. I had no idea they were related.

    Dan

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    That explains a lot. I had no idea they were related.
    Nah, I got disowned for my anti-Febi, anti-Meyle leanings. I think Kent still gets along ok with his brother Gerry though.


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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Nah, I got disowned for my anti-Febi, anti-Meyle leanings. I think Kent still gets along ok with his brother Gerry though.

    That's OK, as I got shunned by him and his followers after I pointed out an eBay seller in Germany who could provide Monark diesel injector nozzles for less than him, and quicker, too.

    Dan

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  42. #88
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    That's OK, as I got shunned by him and his followers after I pointed out an eBay seller in Germany who could provide Monark diesel injector nozzles for less than him, and quicker, too.
    Well, yeah, when you expose his source to the world... I can understand him being cranky!


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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Nah, I got disowned for my anti-Febi, anti-Meyle leanings. I think Kent still gets along ok with his brother Gerry though.

    Brother?!? Uncle Kent is over 70 years old — so 20+ years older than me.

    Get those facts straight !!

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Brother?!? Uncle Kent is over 70 years old — so 20+ years older than me. Get those facts straight !!
    Ah, so you were a late-in-life addition to the family. Learn somethin' new every day!


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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
    Well, yeah, when you expose his source to the world... I can understand him being cranky!

    I know who his source is in the States, but I've been sworn to secrecy. The guy I pointed out has been on German eBay for a long time and ships stuff over here almost daily. I bought a set of Monark nozzles from him for my former 350SDL and they were cheaper than Ken and I got them quicker.

    Dan

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  47. #92
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
    I know who his source is in the States, but I've been sworn to secrecy. The guy I pointed out has been on German eBay for a long time and ships stuff over here almost daily. I bought a set of Monark nozzles from him for my former 350SDL and they were cheaper than Ken and I got them quicker.

    Dan
    Please be careful, as Uncle Kent is a member here (no joke). We don’t want to offend him. I know GSXR is protective of his uncle, as well. Blood is thicker than water.

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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Please be careful, as Uncle Kent is a member here (no joke). We don’t want to offend him. I know GSXR is protective of his uncle, as well. Blood is thicker than water.
    Hi Uncle Kent! I'm a big fan of your videos

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  51. #94

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by S500E View Post
    picture of the wonder paste content attached upon request
    Super, thank you!

    IMG_5817wunderpaste.jpg

    That stuff kinda looks like make-up. Got me to thinking...

    I wonder if could justify all this by telling the wife she might be able to use it for highlighting her fair complexion?

  52. #95

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by S500E View Post

    what is the method of choice when applying this paste? brush(what kind)? finger? q-tips?
    From EPC I've attached the service bulletin for a pano roof. Not being familiar with the 500's sunroof tell me if this is helpful. If not I'll try to dig something more appropriate out and post.

    PanoRoofMaintGuide.pdf

  53. #96

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by S500E View Post

    what is the method of choice when applying this paste? brush(what kind)? finger? q-tips?
    From EPC I've attached the service bulletin for a pano roof. Not being familiar with the 500's sunroof, let me know if it's helpful. If not I'll try to dig something more appropriate out and post. Damn, now I have to go buy a 500e..

    PanoRoofMaintGuide.pdf

    The special sliding roof sliding compound (001 989 50 51) being referred to is just Krytox GPL105 (PFPE). The Lubricant (001 989 14 51, now 001 989 46 51) shown at the bottom of page two is just the old number for Gleitpaste.
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 03-14-2018 at 07:04 PM.

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  55. #97
    Senior Member LWB250's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryvz View Post
    Please be careful, as Uncle Kent is a member here (no joke). We don’t want to offend him. I know GSXR is protective of his uncle, as well. Blood is thicker than water.
    Understood, my apologies.

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  57. #98

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Found a candidate that fit the elusive criteria. It's a Dow Corning product called Molykote 44m Medium Silicone High Temprature Bearing Grease.

    The MSDS showed contents to be only Silicone oil and Lithium Soap: CHECK
    The NLGI rating is #2: CHECK

    Kinda got my hopes up only to be let down. But thanks to S500e's photo, at least I know for sure that Dow Molykote 44m is not the Wunderpaste.

    Gloom, despair, and agony on me. Deep dark depression, excessive misery (if you know the rest of the lyrics of this song, your prolly getin' pret'near to needin' depends).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAKPJEq1Ew
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 03-14-2018 at 09:59 PM.

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  59. #99

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by 500AMM View Post
    That's a great research, really interesting!
    I can look for the Bluesil GRS 55 originally from Elkem Silicons here in Norway.
    500AMM, Any luck rooting out some Bluesil GRS 55 over there in the land of midnight?

  60. #100
    E500E explorer 500AMM's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    Quote Originally Posted by Lioninstreet View Post
    500AMM, Any luck rooting out some Bluesil GRS 55 over there in the land of midnight?
    It appears to be several vendors around in Europe, but I haven't found any Norwegian yet. I'll contact the ELKEM main office tomorrow, in fact only 1 hour away from me.
    Arnt
    '92 500E, 6.0 AMG, König SC, Black/black
    '94 E500 Limited, Sapphire black, 288 grey
    '92 500 TE, Silver/black (sold)

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  62. #101

    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    And yet, the saga continues...

    I tried using some of that Dow Corning Molykote 44m on my w251's creaky second row console lid. It worked for about 5 minutes of driving...

    This to give example that it ain't as easy as it sounds to replace the holy grail...
    Last edited by Lioninstreet; 04-24-2018 at 09:43 PM.

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  64. #102
    Member IBNR's Avatar
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    Re: MB Silicon Paste - the Holy Grail

    I'm crushed that this thread just ends here...like a great mystery novel with the climactic final chapter ripped out....

    ��
    Thanks,
    Mike
    1994 Mercedes RENNtech E500 - Pearl Black/Black
    2007 Mazdaspeed3 GT - True Red
    2009 BMW K1300S - Sapphire Black/Granite Grey/Magma Red Tri-Color

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